[Crazy Idea] GW2 Mercenary Heroes for instanced content

[mythical.6315]

Just now, Raknar.4735 said:

 

The term MMO literally stands for Massive Multiplayer online. Also instanced content isn't always group content in MMOs.

 

And MMOs have group content whether it be small or large scale. I don’t understand why you’re trying to go against that aspect of my post with the reasoning that you’re giving. 

[Raknar.4735]

5 minutes ago, mythical.6315 said:

And MMOs have group content whether it be small or large scale. I don’t understand why you’re trying to go against that aspect of my post with the reasoning that you’re giving. 

 

I'm not going against MMOs having group content. I'm going against your "This is an MMO" statement, as if MMOs don't have the content OP is asking for. Your initial statement justifying group content, with this game being an MMO as reason makes no sense when the OP is asking for content being also done with NPCs, as that is also MMO content.

 

The game being an MMO has no bearing to OPs request. Especially not, since MMO means something different from group content. It is just a classification meaning massive multiplayer online.

Edited August 22, 2021 by Raknar.4735

[mythical.6315]

1 minute ago, Raknar.4735 said:

 

I'm not going against MMOs having group content. I'm going against your "This is an MMO" statement, as if MMOs don't have the content OP is asking for. Your initial statement justifying group content, with this game being an MMO as reason makes no sense when the OP is asking for content being also done with NPCs, as that is also MMO content.

What percentage of MMOs allow players to do all content solo. Please enlighten me. Group content is a part of nearly all MMOs. If players want to do said content then they need to group up with other players. A lot of other content in MMOs can be done solo. Not every single piece of content in a game needs to cater to every player type. 

[Raknar.4735]

16 minutes ago, mythical.6315 said:

What percentage of MMOs allow players to do all content solo. Please enlighten me. Group content is a part of nearly all MMOs. If players want to do said content then they need to group up with other players. A lot of other content in MMOs can be done solo. Not every single piece of content in a game needs to cater to every player type. 

 

Where does OP want to do all content solo? Nowhere, you're just massively exaggerating. Content with NPCs is also part of nearly all MMOs. So what's your point?

 

Every single piece of content doesn't need to cater to every player type, exactly. I agree. So why are you here disagreeing to the OP, only because the content he wants doesn't cater to you? I mean, "this is an MMO".

 

Also, your initial counter argument "this is an MMO" still makes no sense.

 

Edit: Besides, you can already do all the content, besides adventures and the Queen‘s gauntlet, in a group, so most of the content in the game can already be done in a group and is therefore group content. You not playing it in a group is your own choice.

Edited August 22, 2021 by Raknar.4735

[Geoff Fey.1035]

The only situation I could see Mercs working would be for Dungeons, and then only to allow the Story Mode of each dungeon to be solo-able (and I mean solo-able in the way that the Personal Story is solo-able).

 

I am enchanted with the idea of having henchmen back in GW2, it was really cool having the Heroes you could customize from GW:NF/GW:EN, but GW1 and GW2 are such a departure from one another that it's tough to sell having your own party following you around.

 

That said, if ANet wanted to capitalize on the PvP Stronghold game mode by allowing players to customize what units they have access to and what weapons they bring (Charr Melee - DPS Sword/CC Hammer/Condi Daggers; Tengu Ranged - CC Rifle/DPS Bow/Condi Scepter; etc) I'd be down for that. Makes it so that you're bringing your own "army" to the fight. And if they expanded this game mode into Strikes (where you are assaulting an NPC stronghold) that would be very interesting indeed.

[mythical.6315]

25 minutes ago, Raknar.4735 said:

Where does OP want to do all content solo? Nowhere, you're just massively exaggerating.

 

How about in their post where they listed all instanced group content:  "Can be used in Story, Dungeons, Fractals, Strikes, Raids etc. "

 

And just above that line where they stated multiple heroes being used: "All Heroes in your party can be ordered at the same time by clicking your own name."

 

And also this: "Each Hero takes up a slot in the party. "

 

How does using NPCs in instanced group content, in place of players, not equate to being able to solo it?  By all means enlighten me on that one.

 

25 minutes ago, Raknar.4735 said:

Content with NPCs is also part of nearly all MMOs. So what's your point?

 

You're missing the point with that statement.  It's not about whether NPCs exist in MMOs but whether NPCs replace players in group content in MMOs.  Two very different things.

 

25 minutes ago, Raknar.4735 said:

Every single piece of content doesn't need to cater to every player type, exactly. I agree. So why are you here disagreeing to the OP, only because the content he wants doesn't cater to you? I mean, "this is an MMO"

 

So if you disagree then why are you going against my post?  If you agree that every single piece of content doesn't need to cater to every player type, which you just said, then why does group instance content need to?  Please explain that one.  Several times already you have just contradicted yourself.

 

25 minutes ago, Raknar.4735 said:

 

Also, your initial counter argument "this is an MMO" still makes no sense.

 

Do MMOs have group content that can only be completed by other players?

What percentage of MMOs have all content which can be completed without needing other players?

 

Group content is a large aspect of MMOs.  You arguing against that is what doesn't make sense.

Edited August 22, 2021 by mythical.6315

[Daredevil.2745]

Heroes are a good idea, i have been able to complete most of the content easier and faster with heroes + henchmen in GW1 than with actual people. Heroes are great solution for skilled players who don't want to play with other people or carry them through content, for those who simply don't like to play together with other people.

Give us a chance to complete everything without interacting with people.

Edited August 22, 2021 by Daredevil.2745

[Raknar.4735]

23 minutes ago, mythical.6315 said:

How about in their post where they listed all instanced group content:  "Can be used in Story, Dungeons, Fractals, Strikes, Raids etc. "

 

And just above that line where they stated multiple heroes being used: "All Heroes in your party can be ordered at the same time by clicking your own name."

 

How does using NPCs in instanced group content, in place of players, not equate to being able to solo it?  By all means enlighten me on that one.

 

 

I didn't know this game only consists of instanced group content. I mean, I get it, if that's the only part that you play, it is all of your content. It isn't all of the content in the game. Like I said, you're massively exaggerating.

 

Quote

You're missing the point with that statement.  It's not about whether NPCs exist in MMOs but whether NPCs replace players in group content in MMOs.  Two very different things.

 

Seems to me like you're missing what OPs suggestion is about. They're not here to replace players. You can still group up with the players if you so desire.

If you're worried that players will replace you with NPCs instead of taking players which will be the more efficient way, then the content is at fault in the first place.

 

Quote

So if you disagree then why are you going against my post?  If you agree that every single piece of content doesn't need to cater to every player type, which you just said, then why does group instance content need to?  Please explain that one.  Several times already you have just contradicted yourself.

 

I haven't contradicted myself once. I'm against your post because you stated this "game being an MMO" should be a counter argument against OPs suggestion, when it isn't an argument in the first place, as MMOs have all types of content, like you yourself previously stated. I'm not saying group instance content needs to cater to every player type. The group instance content remains unchanged with OPs suggestion.

This is about the mercenaries, not the group content itself. It seems you have missed the point.

 

Quote

 

Do MMOs have group content that can only be completed by other players?

What percentage of MMOs have all content which can be completed without needing other players?

 

 

Your questions here make no sense. "What is group content that can only be completed by other players?" 

A lot of content can be completed by other players.

 

About your second question: I don't know, I don't have the statistics for that, do you? Care to elaborate? The question, as well as the answer is also completely irrelevant to OPs suggestion. So why ask in the first place?

 

Quote

Group content is a large aspect of MMOs.  You arguing against that is what doesn't make sense.

 

I'm not arguing against that, I'm arguing against you using the statement "This is an MMO" as if it were any kind of counter argument against OPs suggestion, when it isn't at all, as it only means massively multiplayer online, something that isn't actually part of our current types of instanced content apart from Dragonstorm and public Marionette.

 

I get it, you were wrong with the "this is an MMO" statement and don't want to admit it, so instead you go on a lot of tangents and keep moving the goalpost. On behalf of OP and to not further drive this thread into offtopic conversations, this will be my last answer to you.

Edited August 22, 2021 by Raknar.4735

[mythical.6315]

28 minutes ago, Raknar.4735 said:

I didn't know this game only consists of instanced group content. I mean, I get it, if that's the only part that you play, it is all of your content. It isn't all of the content in the game. Like I said, you're massively exaggerating.

 

Where did I say the game only consisted of group content?  I don't recall ever having said anything close to that so why say that I did?  Please provide evidence where I stated that otherwise you're just making it completely up.

 

28 minutes ago, Raknar.4735 said:

I haven't contradicted myself once. I'm against your post because you stated this "game being an MMO" should be a counter argument against OPs suggestion, when it isn't an argument in the first place, as MMOs have all types of content, like you yourself previously stated. I'm not saying group instance content needs to cater to every player type. The group instance content remains unchanged with OPs suggestion.

This is about the mercenaries, not the group content itself. It seems you have missed the point.

 

Answer this question:  do the majority of MMOs have group content which have you play with other players?  Yes or no.   Group content in MMOs is one aspect in them.  When you play an MMO, it generally accepted that there will be some parts that will require you to play with other players.  Dungeons and raids in MMOs being a very prime example.

 

Changing dungeons/fractals/raids to have the option to be done solo is catering to both types of players: those that want to group and those who want to solo.  Adding mercenaries is literally catering to those that want to do instanced group content solo by giving them a means to do just that.

 

28 minutes ago, Raknar.4735 said:

Your questions here make no sense. "What is group content that can only be completed by other players?" 

A lot of content can be completed by other players.

 

About your second question: I don't know, I don't have the statistics for that, do you? Care to elaborate? The question, as well as the answer is also completely irrelevant to OPs suggestion. So why ask in the first place?

 

Perhaps it doesn't make sense because you paraphrased it?  The point was to establish that group content is a part of MMOs as you seem to disagree with my earlier post where I stated that group content was.  This also goes with my second question where I was trying to get you to do a little research so that you'd realize that group content is a large aspect of MMOs and very few, if any at all, allow players to complete those group content solo.

 

28 minutes ago, Raknar.4735 said:

I'm not arguing against that, I'm arguing against you using the statement "This is an MMO" as if it were any kind of counter argument against OPs suggestion, when it isn't at all, as it only means massively multiplayer online, something that isn't actually part of our current types of instanced content apart from Dragonstorm and public Marionette.

 

I get it, you were wrong with the "this is an MMO" statement and don't want to admit it, so instead you go on a lot of tangents and keep moving the goalpost. On behalf of OP and to not further drive this thread into offtopic conversations, this will be my last answer to you.

 

MMO's have group content.  Most of the time that group content has to be completed with other players.  Therefore, "this is an MMO" is a valid argument.  GW2 is an MMO.  Having instanced group content that only has 5 players does not change that.

 

I'm not the one moving goal posts nor going on tangents but do go on.

Edited August 22, 2021 by mythical.6315

[Linken.6345]

24 minutes ago, Raknar.4735 said:

 

I didn't know this game only consists of instanced group content. I mean, I get it, if that's the only part that you play, it is all of your content. It isn't all of the content in the game. Like I said, you're massively exaggerating.

 

 

Seems to me like you're missing what OPs suggestion is about. They're not here to replace players. You can still group up with the players if you so desire.

If you're worried that players will replace you with NPCs instead of taking players which will be the more efficient way, then the content is at fault in the first place.

 

 

I haven't contradicted myself once. I'm against your post because you stated this "game being an MMO" should be a counter argument against OPs suggestion, when it isn't an argument in the first place, as MMOs have all types of content, like you yourself previously stated. I'm not saying group instance content needs to cater to every player type. The group instance content remains unchanged with OPs suggestion.

This is about the mercenaries, not the group content itself. It seems you have missed the point.

 

 

Your questions here make no sense. "What is group content that can only be completed by other players?" 

A lot of content can be completed by other players.

 

About your second question: I don't know, I don't have the statistics for that, do you? Care to elaborate? The question, as well as the answer is also completely irrelevant to OPs suggestion. So why ask in the first place?

 

 

I'm not arguing against that, I'm arguing against you using the statement "This is an MMO" as if it were any kind of counter argument against OPs suggestion, when it isn't at all, as it only means massively multiplayer online, something that isn't actually part of our current types of instanced content apart from Dragonstorm and public Marionette.

 

I get it, you were wrong with the "this is an MMO" statement and don't want to admit it, so instead you go on a lot of tangents and keep moving the goalpost. On behalf of OP and to not further drive this thread into offtopic conversations, this will be my last answer to you.

No this is an mmo and in mmos you have instanced content called for example dungeons/strikes/raids you need a group of players to complete.

So mythical.6315 is not wrong you are.

 

You say that not all content need to cater to everyone, then turn around and want change the only content were you need a group to solable content.

That then goes against what you are saying.

 

[Raknar.4735]

21 minutes ago, Linken.6345 said:

No this is an mmo and in mmos you have instanced content called for example dungeons/strikes/raids you need a group of players to complete.

So mythical.6315 is not wrong you are.

 

You say that not all content need to cater to everyone, then turn around and want change the only content were you need a group to solable content.

That then goes against what you are saying.

 

 

Yeah, this is an mmo and in mmos you have a variety of content. Instanced content is one type of that variety. There's also solo content, PvP content, in this case also WvW content, racing content etc.

 

So the statement "This is an MMO" is not a viable counter argument against OPs suggestion, as it "being an MMO" has no bearing, especially so since the abbreviation "MMO" doesn't state anything about instanced group content, it merely stands for massively multiplayer online.

So yes, he is wrong, and so are you.

 

Nothing I've stated goes against what I'm saying. The instanced content itself remains unchanged. Even after the introduction of the mercenaries OP suggested, you can still play it in the same old way you can now. That players do then have the possibility to group up with NPCs or fill their remaining slots with NPCs doesn't change the content.

 

I'll also repeat myself for you, since you're driving this thread further offtopic: 

On behalf of OP and to not further drive this thread into offtopic conversations, this will be my last answer to you.

Edited August 22, 2021 by Raknar.4735

[Linken.6345]

10 minutes ago, Raknar.4735 said:

 

Yeah, this is an mmo and in mmos you have a variety of content. Instanced content is one type of that variety. There's also solo content, PvP content, in this case also WvW content, racing content etc.

 

So the statement "This is an MMO" is not a viable counter argument against OPs suggestion, as it "being an MMO" has no bearing, especially so since the abbreviation "MMO" doesn't state anything about instanced group content, it merely stands for massively multiplayer online.

So yes, he is wrong.

 

Nothing I've stated goes against what I'm saying. The instanced content itself remains unchanged. Even after the introduction of the mercenaries OP suggested, you can still play it in the same old way you can now. That players do then have the possibility to group up with NPCs or fill their remaining slots with NPCs doesn't change the content.

 

I'll also repeat myself for you, since you're driving this thread further offtopic: 

On behalf of OP and to not further drive this thread into offtopic conversations, this will be my last answer to you.

 

So then we can also ask anet to stop doing open world and create another open world were you have to be a group to complete it and not do any more open world untill this new group open world is fully cover like the open world is now.

 

It wont change open world at all since you can still play the other open world were you can solo.

Do you see how the OP request seems abit silly now?

 

Its not just creating a mercenary system then plunking it down into the game.

It is going inside the group instanced content duming it down or out right recreating it so the merchs can complete the content for you.

 

Edited August 22, 2021 by Linken.6345

[Trejgon.9367]

On 8/21/2021 at 8:36 AM, Inculpatus cedo.9234 said:

It was a sad day when Heroes were added to Guild Wars.

Just killed any kind of parties forming.

I'd hate to see the same thing happen here, just for the sake of old dungeons.

(By the way, the Devs consider Fractals to be dungeons.)

 

While I am not in favour of the OP idea, this statement is incorrect - it took years of stagnation, and research of heroes to come up with a compsition that can hope to approach end-game content in GW1 and even then that composition requires player to know those maps very well and micromanage the living hell out of them if he wants to replicate what a human-based comp would do without issue.

 

And for YEARS after introduction of heroes people were still forming parties for that content while flat out considering heroes as not even viable option.

 

And gw1 had henchies from the get go, so it's not like there was no npc teammates at all.

 

But NPC teammates (even customisable ones) made perfect sense in GW1. Not so much in GW2, so I guess we can agree at this 🙂

[Daredevil.2745]

group of players = group of heroes, heroes are the same players, just better becasue you dont need to waste time on waiting people and communicating with them.

Just make the team composition you want with heroes and play the way you want, no the way these meta builds copypaste nobrainers demand.

[Raknar.4735]

21 minutes ago, Linken.6345 said:

 

So then we can also ask anet to stop doing open world and create another open world were you have to be a group to complete it and not do any more open world untill this new group open world is fully cover like the open world is now.

 

It wont change open world at all since you can still play the other open world were you can solo.

Do you see how the OP request seems abit silly now?

 

Its not just creating a mercenary system then plunking it down into the game is going inside the group instanced content duming it down or out right recreating it so the merchs can complete the content for you.

 

 

Since you've asked specifically and seem to need suggestions i considered answering your questions one last time:

 

Yes you can ask for your own OW maps, but do so in your own thread, instead of hijacking OPs one.

I still don't see it as a silly request, if you want some open world maps were you have to group up to complete it (even though you can already do that with the current ones, the grouping up and then completing), then suggest it to Anet.

 

Also, lots of the already implemented zones in the game can only be completed with groups. May I suggest you to look at Dragon's Stand? Or many other meta events that can't be soloed? If you have any questions about metas that can't be soloed, feel free to PM me! I'm happy to point you to them, as you clearly want OW content that can't be soloed, which is already in the game. I'm sure EoD will also bring new similiar content.

 

Nonetheless, your derailment about OW maps still has nothing to do with OPs suggestion, just like the "This is a MMO" statement is not relevant to the mercenaries.

 

OP said nothing about tuning the current group instanced content down, or recreating it. He merely suggested a mercenery system. Everything else is your own interpretation. So the instanced group content remains unchanged.

Have a nice day 😉.

Edited August 22, 2021 by Raknar.4735

[Linken.6345]

28 minutes ago, Raknar.4735 said:

 

Since you've asked specifically and seem to need suggestions i considered answering your questions one last time:

 

Yes you can ask for your own OW maps, but do so in your own thread, instead of hijacking OPs one.

I still don't see it as a silly request, if you want some open world maps were you have to group up to complete it (even though you can already do that with the current ones, the grouping up and then completing), then suggest it to Anet.

 

Also, lots of the already implemented zones in the game can only be completed with groups. May I suggest you to look at Dragon's Stand? Or many other meta events that can't be soloed? If you have any questions about metas that can't be soloed, feel free to PM me! I'm happy to point you to them, as you clearly want OW content that can't be soloed, which is already in the game. I'm sure EoD will also bring new similiar content.

 

Nonetheless, your derailment about OW maps still has nothing to do with OPs suggestion, just like the "This is a MMO" statement is not relevant to the mercenaries.

 

OP said nothing about tuning the current group instanced content down, or recreating it. He merely suggested a mercenery system. Everything else is your own interpretation. So the instanced group content remains unchanged.

Have a nice day 😉.

Nono you dont need to group up and  thats the problem.

The same problem OP has that you need to group up and cant solo instance content now.

See how the request are exactly the same?

 

I can do dragon stand without being in a group just fine, that there is other running around on the map that I dont have to communicate with at all make it a solo experience.

 

How do you expect a mercenary system to work in the current dungeons without remaking them?

Hell Anet cant even get them bug free for group of players as it is and you expect npcs to be able to do it without issues?

Edited August 22, 2021 by Linken.6345

[Randulf.7614]

Heroes and henchies were one of the biggest successes of GW1 and brilliantly implemented, but the game was designed around them. GW2 is a different type of game and Im not really convinced theyd work or are even needed just for a limited part of the game.

 

Then again, if they also did it like the mercenary option they brought in so i could have a few of my toons on a team, id prob be less objecting!

[kharmin.7683]

3 hours ago, Sobx.1758 said:

In which case, as I already said, this would be a useless feature beyond the story mode level content.

They would be useless in story content, too.  😉

[ArchonWing.9480]

I would want them for open world and story (maybe story dungeons). Having replacements for actual people for group content I don't think would be healthy for them. The game has always been trying to get away from an automated/passive style of play for quite a while.

 

But henchmen could provide a gear sink, which would be nice.

 

Also could we have a henchman gather the stuff in my home instance? Now that would be cool.

[Zacchary.6183]

2 hours ago, Lord Trejgon.2809 said:

and even then that composition requires player to know those maps very well and micromanage the living hell out of them if he wants to replicate what a human-based comp would do without issue.

I can vouch for this. On GW1, I had some trouble with end game content and Heroes because my composition was still experimental. Eventually I made everyone a monk and added Restore Life to the end of their bar to use when anyone went down. Ogden was the main healer with Mesmer skills that restored energy, Livia focused on corpse exploitation so nothing ressed, Gwen was built to burn enemy energy and everyone else did as much damage and control as I could make them do without draining them. Everything else was getting positioning right, watching hp/energy and using skills immediately when they are needed. It was very tedious.

[kharmin.7683]

https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/topic/25587-ideas-“heroes”-system-masteries-for-gw2/?do=findComment&comment=25586

https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/topic/60081-heroes/?do=findComment&comment=60080

https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/topic/33451-bring-back-gw1-heroes-feature/?do=findComment&comment=33450

https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/topic/29209-the-return-of-our-heroes-needed/?do=findComment&comment=29208

https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/topic/8036-is-it-possible-for-heroes-to-comeback-to-guild-wars-2/?do=findComment&comment=8035

 

All of these were found on the first page of searching using the forums search feature. 

[Zacchary.6183]

20 minutes ago, kharmin.7683 said:

https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/topic/25587-ideas-“heroes”-system-masteries-for-gw2/?do=findComment&comment=25586

https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/topic/60081-heroes/?do=findComment&comment=60080

https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/topic/33451-bring-back-gw1-heroes-feature/?do=findComment&comment=33450

https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/topic/29209-the-return-of-our-heroes-needed/?do=findComment&comment=29208

https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/topic/8036-is-it-possible-for-heroes-to-comeback-to-guild-wars-2/?do=findComment&comment=8035

 

All of these were found on the first page of searching using the forums search feature. 

 

All of them are over a year old and necroing topics can get you in trouble.

Edited August 23, 2021 by Zacchary.6183

[kharmin.7683]

Just now, Zacchary.6183 said:

 

All of them are over a year old and necroing topics can get you in trouble.

Point being, it's not such a "crazy idea" as the OP portrays.  Topic has been discussed quite a bit.  This thread hasn't really added anything new to the conversation.

[Zacchary.6183]

Just now, kharmin.7683 said:

Point being, it's not such a "crazy idea" as the OP portrays.  Topic has been discussed quite a bit.  This thread hasn't really added anything new to the conversation.

What's there to add? The original system is pretty solid imho.

[Cyninja.2954]

Everyone commenting on how great heroes were in GW1 and how they allowed one to solo the game and/or forego grouping: thank you for driving home the point.

 

I loved my heroes in GW1. I took large breaks,  treated the game as a glorified single player game and put in some time towards the end when GW2 was announced. Heroes were immensly helpful and fun to work with in the process.

 

Now, if the goal is to turn GW2 into a glorified single player game, even more than it already is, then heroes are one way to go. I'm sure some players would love this approach. I only wonder why anyone who wants this game to continue existing as a MMORPG would be in favor of this idea (once they took some time to consider the ramifications). 

Edited August 23, 2021 by Cyninja.2954