More Gold, Please?

[Buzzbugs.1236]

As a full time sPvP Gladiator I feel like the gold rewards vs time spent is a bit low.

 

 

[Sunshine.5014]

2 hours ago, Buzzbugs.1236 said:

As a full time sPvP Gladiator I feel like the gold rewards vs time spent is a bit low.

 

 

 

Nope, more gold just means more incentive for botting. If you make the gold gain really low, the botters will switch to bot in PvE instead.

 

We should ask for the reverse, make most of PvP rewards account bound (like medium expensive skin unlocks). That would remove the bots from PvP since there is no longer monetary rewards.

[Buzzbugs.1236]

30 minutes ago, Sunshine.5014 said:

 

Nope, more gold just means more incentive for botting. If you make the gold gain really low, the botters will switch to bot in PvE instead.

 

We should ask for the reverse, make most of PvP rewards account bound (like medium expensive skin unlocks). That would remove the bots from PvP since there is no longer monetary rewards.

 

They're still going to make FAT STACKS from 24/7 botting even at the current gold rate. If botting is an issue they need to be targeted directly and banned. Making the gold gain higher is an incentive for legit players to switch to PvP and for current PvP players to stay in the game.

Edited August 22, 2021 by Buzzbugs.1236

[Crab Fear.1624]

2 hours ago, Buzzbugs.1236 said:

 

They're still going to make FAT STACKS from 24/7 botting even at the current gold rate. If botting is an issue they need to be targeted directly and banned. Making the gold gain higher is an incentive for legit players to switch to PvP and for current PvP players to stay in the game.

The only thing that drags pve players to pvp is skins, they make way more gold in PVE.

 

Gold in PVP, increasing it will only bring more bots.

 

You want more gold?

 

GO PVE.

 

What do you want with gold in PVP?

[Terrorsquad.2349]

4 hours ago, Sunshine.5014 said:

 

Nope, more gold just means more incentive for botting. If you make the gold gain really low, the botters will switch to bot in PvE instead.

 

We should ask for the reverse, make most of PvP rewards account bound (like medium expensive skin unlocks). That would remove the bots from PvP since there is no longer monetary rewards.

Stop.asking.to.punish.pvp.players. We need gold too. Lowering gold means lowering people too.

So less people + less bots = ?

 

Just find a way to make bots not work anymore, just like a captcha works for us “Are you human?”

Someone said random jumping puzzles, could be a simple drawing and “ Click the Asura” or “ Click the Warrior Symbol” 

 

I dont understand why you’re so passionate about killing the pvp community while other solutions are more helpful and keeping the community.

[Terrorsquad.2349]

2 hours ago, Crab Fear.1624 said:

The only thing that drags pve players to pvp is skins, they make way more gold in PVE.

 

Gold in PVP, increasing it will only bring more bots.

 

You want more gold?

 

GO PVE.

 

What do you want with gold in PVP?

Even PvP players want nice skins too. My 8 legendaries while mostly playing PvP and used to be WvW hardcore confirms that. Don’t lower the rewards, It just punishes us and moves the problem elsewhere so not fixing anything, just making things worse.

[HokenPWNZ.7628]

38 minutes ago, Terrorsquad.2349 said:

We need gold too

For what?

[Waztoproz.3480]

Well for one thing you need gold to make the Legendary backpack and amulet specifically from PVP

[SoftFootpaws.9134]

1 hour ago, Terrorsquad.2349 said:

Stop.asking.to.punish.pvp.players. We need gold too. Lowering gold means lowering people too.

So less people + less bots = ?

 

Just find a way to make bots not work anymore, just like a captcha works for us “Are you human?”

Someone said random jumping puzzles, could be a simple drawing and “ Click the Asura” or “ Click the Warrior Symbol” 

 

I dont understand why you’re so passionate about killing the pvp community while other solutions are more helpful and keeping the community.

These kinds of puzzles no longer work on bots after the invention of deep (neural network-based) AI, and yes its become so common now that it shows up in bots used for games.  Its almost impossible for code to distinguish between a Human and a deep AI bot, because they're programmed through training from Human behaviors.

 

This includes tasks like solving captchas and other basic puzzles. It'd have to be something super complex to fool modern bots, and then it can end up too complex for young players, old players, the mentally disabled, or players who just aren't very capable (some people are just more physical than mental).

 

Even the venerable reCaptcha is being used to train self-driving cars, which means that while it can determine who is Human for now, eventually machines will know all those inputs, too. And we're doing it on purpose.

 

The only long-term solution to bots, exploits, etc. is active moderation by GMs. Unfortunately this is one area of the industry that companies keep trying to undercut severely.

Edited August 22, 2021 by Hannelore.8153

[Paradoxoglanis.1904]

Just now, Sunshine.5014 said:

 

Nope, more gold just means more incentive for botting. If you make the gold gain really low, the botters will switch to bot in PvE instead.

 

We should ask for the reverse, make most of PvP rewards account bound (like medium expensive skin unlocks). That would remove the bots from PvP since there is no longer monetary rewards.

Or maybe dont punish pvp players with poor rewards because anet doesnt care about bots.

[Crab Fear.1624]

3 hours ago, Terrorsquad.2349 said:

Even PvP players want nice skins too. My 8 legendaries while mostly playing PvP and used to be WvW hardcore confirms that. Don’t lower the rewards, It just punishes us and moves the problem elsewhere so not fixing anything, just making things worse.

 

Gold can be earned in other modes.

 

They can look at beefing up account based skins as pvp rewards, and perhaps a token (account bound) to earn some legendary skins (but not the actual weapons), and I mean a monkey ton of tokens to get a skin, but no gold.

 

Gold is literally bot bait.

 

They can leave the amount as is, but NO MORE.

 

I'd rather they redesign the whole PVP rewards system, but honestly the PVP ONLY population is so small and insignificant, I can't imagine they would put any effort into it.

[Genesis.5169]

Bringing gold into pvp will bring more bots and more players, if done right with proper balance changes the player population will overtake the bot population and botting will be negligible. There is no mmo with no botting activity let me repeat this.

 

There is no game without botting activity increasing pvp rewards will be a good thing for pvp.

All you people who say OH NO WORRY ABOUT THE BOTS, stop you have no idea what your talking about.

Edited August 22, 2021 by Genesis.5169

[Terrorsquad.2349]

7 hours ago, Hannelore.8153 said:

These kinds of puzzles no longer work on bots after the invention of deep (neural network-based) AI, and yes its become so common now that it shows up in bots used for games.  Its almost impossible for code to distinguish between a Human and a deep AI bot, because they're programmed through training from Human behaviors.

 

This includes tasks like solving captchas and other basic puzzles. It'd have to be something super complex to fool modern bots, and then it can end up too complex for young players, old players, the mentally disabled, or players who just aren't very capable (some people are just more physical than mental).

 

Even the venerable reCaptcha is being used to train self-driving cars, which means that while it can determine who is Human for now, eventually machines will know all those inputs, too. And we're doing it on purpose.

 

The only long-term solution to bots, exploits, etc. is active moderation by GMs. Unfortunately this is one area of the industry that companies keep trying to undercut severely.

While I know enough about Deep Learning and AI as an IT'er, I can honestly say they won't put the effort nor the money to invest DL and AI into gold farming. Most bot-applications are probably Chinese made. Once they see they need to invest more, they quit and move onto next game to bot. Would also be a huge trade off to make the botting application more expensive as less people would use them.

 

I believe a simple mechanic to implement is a good first step and see from there what happens.

 

Not a bad thing to dip their toes into alternative solutions instead of punishing players loving the PvP.

[Terrorsquad.2349]

6 hours ago, Crab Fear.1624 said:

 

Gold can be earned in other modes.

 

And what if PvP players don't want to play other modes? What if PvE and WvW remains the goldmaking modes but not PvP?

I mean, we've been there at start when playing pvp actually costed money to have your own Arena and stuff but since gold is more needed than it used to, taking away gold for 1 (small) part of community might not be what PvP'ers need. 

 

However, if Im being honest and if Anet would make the jump to heavily invest into PvP and rework matchmaking and balance patch frequencies, I might be able to give up on liquid PvP rewards. But only if they invest heavily into PvP. 

 

I just like being fashionable while killing

[Terrorsquad.2349]

8 hours ago, HokenPWNZ.7628 said:

For what?

Hmm, good question. Why would I need gold with a trading post ingame with skins and legendaries.. hmmm.

[JusticeRetroHunter.7684]

1 hour ago, Terrorsquad.2349 said:

While I know enough about Deep Learning and AI as an IT'er, I can honestly say they won't put the effort nor the money to invest DL and AI into gold farming. Most bot-applications are probably Chinese made. Once they see they need to invest more, they quit and move onto next game to bot. Would also be a huge trade off to make the botting application more expensive as less people would use them.

 

I believe a simple mechanic to implement is a good first step and see from there what happens.

 

Not a bad thing to dip their toes into alternative solutions instead of punishing players loving the PvP.

It’s not about resources really. Machine learning and neural networks is more or less a way of coding. People usto model coding things based on geometry and linear thinking. Now people are starting to model things using networks (like how are brains work). It’s not more exotic technology that costs money…it’s just a different paradigm of processing information. As more people learn how to code and model this way, the more bots you’ll see getting through captchas.

Edited August 22, 2021 by JusticeRetroHunter.7684

[Terrorsquad.2349]

1 minute ago, JusticeRetroHunter.7684 said:

It’s not about resources. Machine learning and neural networks is a coding philosophy. People usto model coding things based on geometry and linear thinking. Now people are starting to model things using networks. It’s not more exotic technology that costs money…it’s just a different paradigm of processing information. As more people learn how to code and model this way, the more bots you’ll see getting through captchas.

With resources, you can also add a developer enabling the kind of coding needed OR learning DL/NN. Someone who's been coding a certain way, needs time and adjust his way of thinking and coding (as you stated, it's more of a way of thinking more than practicallity). Which, imo, is also kind of resource as time costs money.

Optimization of existing neural network code is already quite a challenge for people who made their own, let alone to start learning from step 1. Certain "quick online classes" are 6 months. And this only covers the basics.

 

That's why I believe Anet could introduce a soft step and see how it progresses.

[JusticeRetroHunter.7684]

12 minutes ago, Terrorsquad.2349 said:

With resources, you can also add a developer enabling the kind of coding needed OR learning DL/NN. Someone who's been coding a certain way, needs time and adjust his way of thinking and coding (as you stated, it's more of a way of thinking more than practicallity). Which, imo, is also kind of resource as time costs money.

Optimization of existing neural network code is already quite a challenge for people who made their own, let alone to start learning from step 1. Certain "quick online classes" are 6 months. And this only covers the basics.

 

That's why I believe Anet could introduce a soft step and see how it progresses.

Ya true. I suppose that, since algo’s probably have a market price, and making NNs are not ubiquitous knowledge yet, that market price is probably high

 

 So in a way you are right if there is say, a bot market where there are buyers and sellers of a product that’s manufactured (bot programs for gw2) then the price of those programs will reflect how many sellers there are, and thus how ubiquitous the tech is.

 

my guess is that over time that market price will just get cheaper only as a function of time and nothing else. We simply just wait till the bots slowly take over 😅

Edited August 22, 2021 by JusticeRetroHunter.7684

[Multicolorhipster.9751]

Wouldn't a good middle-ground be something like...

 

More rewards for winning, and no rewards for losing?

 

Its already like that to an extent, but you get a participation award regardless of losing or contribution; which, is pretty great if someone were a computer with an unlimited attention span.

[Leonidrex.5649]

48 minutes ago, Multicolorhipster.9751 said:

Wouldn't a good middle-ground be something like...

 

More rewards for winning, and no rewards for losing?

 

Its already like that to an extent, but you get a participation award regardless of losing or contribution; which, is pretty great if someone were a computer with an unlimited attention span.

bots win games too, honestly if bot plays 10000 games no matter how poorly coded it is, it WILL eventually start winning

[Multicolorhipster.9751]

8 hours ago, Leonidrex.5649 said:

bots win games too, honestly if bot plays 10000 games no matter how poorly coded it is, it WILL eventually start winning

I get that, but in any case the bots would at least not be rewarded for all 10,000 matches. 

[Crab Fear.1624]

The general player that mostly PVEs does not want to PVP because they do not like it.

 

A little more gold WILL NOT bring them in.

 

Honestly, if they don't like PVP, I don't want them to feel forced to come here even for skin rewards because they will not spend any more than the time required to get said skins, and generally won't improve, OR they will flood the game mode with the FOTM/ EASIEST CHEEZE META.

 

Gold doesn't benefit you so much as a PVP main as you claim.

 

You want to look flashy? Ask for ways to earn the skins of these flashy items, except you know the 10,000+ gold items.

 

No need for the actual weapon, because you dont PVE right?

 

A pvp weapon transmuted with a skin will suffice.

 

MORE GOLD WILL ONLY DRAW IN MORE BOTS

 

If you really want gold or skins, go play the other game modes, it really isnt that bad, and maybe....just maybe you will have fun.

 

NO ONE cares how flashy you are when your cheeks are getting clapped.

[Schimmi.6872]

4 hours ago, Multicolorhipster.9751 said:

I get that, but in any case the bots would at least not be rewarded for all 10,000 matches. 

And the same would happen for the real players too, because the win/loose-rate of most bots is about the same (around 50%) as the one of the average player, because of the way the mmr works. The bots sometimes even reach higher ratings than average players. So you won't only punish the bots with this change.

[schokelmei.8271]

Half the gold. Put it in line with WvW instead?

[Leonidrex.5649]

8 hours ago, Multicolorhipster.9751 said:

I get that, but in any case the bots would at least not be rewarded for all 10,000 matches. 

I dont get the thought process.
lets say I win 60% of the games, and a bot wins 40% of the games.
Is it fine for me to lose 40% of my profit, so that bot loses 60% of it?
Who wins here?