Revenants can't heal at all underwater

[Kleshr.7358]

Have been playing heal alac renegade for a bit until today when the underwater fractal came up.

 

Realized both ventari and kalla are unusable underwater. Well, I had to swap to shiro/jalis renegade with zerker while a friend swapped to healbrand just for that fractal.

 

Feels really bad. Can you just make ventari tablet PBAoE underwater please? and have spirits cast PBAoE underwater as well? I mean, heck, Jalis used to be unusable underwater until yall made roads a sphere. This just seems silly; Any player that plays a heal built revenant just basically goes "hmm, I'm literally useless underwater" -- why is this such a problem?

[Zeph.5927]

Underwater combat is something that Anet wanted so bad to be such a big part of this game and that ultimately fell short and has been more or less forgotten in the grand scheme of things. The general concept of underwater combat came about before the game launched......before they did a 180 on the "tank, healer, dps" trinity with the release of HoT and raids. You can tell that underwater combat doesn't even hardly register on their radar anymore. It's become an afterthought, if that, and still presents issues to this day. There's a reason that HoT, PoF, and the LW seasons around them all have little to no underwater content.

[Za Shaloc.3908]

Yeah, feels bad. Been waiting for Legendary Seahorse Stance since HoT launch.

[RabbitUp.8294]

Place your bets, will the EoD spec also be unusable underwater? Are we going for the 3 out of 3?

[GrayHawk.7560]

Does feel kind of bad and it feels very bad to be locked out if certain legends but Rev in general underwater is insanely strong in my opinion. Either Mallyx or Shiro under water with a trident do immense damage.

[draxynnic.3719]

14 minutes ago, RabbitUp.8294 said:

Place your bets, will the EoD spec also be unusable underwater? Are we going for the 3 out of 3?

It wasn't updated in the wiki, but Glint was updated to be used underwater the same time Jalis was. Elemental Blast was just made to automatically center on your target.

[RabbitUp.8294]

19 minutes ago, GrayHawk.7560 said:

Does feel kind of bad and it feels very bad to be locked out if certain legends but Rev in general underwater is insanely strong in my opinion. Either Mallyx or Shiro under water with a trident do immense damage.

 

The thing is, it's only good for power builds or herald. Condi renegade only has Mallyx, and when you run out of energy, there's nothing good damage-wise to switch to. Especially the way trident works, as you lose your conditions.

 

8 minutes ago, draxynnic.3719 said:

It wasn't updated in the wiki, but Glint was updated to be used underwater the same time Jalis was. Elemental Blast was just made to automatically center on your target.

 

True, but Glint was still disabled for like what 2 years or so? Kalla is still disabled. So both especs launched inacessible underwater. Combined with the fact that Jalis was also disabled, underwater rev/herald had no legend or weapon choices, everyone was Mallyx/Shiro with spear.

 

Although to be fair, Glint was hardly alone. A lot of HoT specs had that same problem. Heck, chrono still has the same problem in the underwater fractal, at least alacrigade still works, even if they can't heal.

[draxynnic.3719]

Ah, so you mean 3 for 3 on elite legends being unavailable underwater on launch, rather than being unavailable underwater full stop?

 

It'll be interesting to see. Glint and Jalis were both legends where only one skill really needed modification to work underwater, while Ventari and Kalla are a bit more reliant on ground targeting (which is not to say they couldn't be made to work, mind you). I think they're likely to be more aware of underwater combat this time around, so if the new legend is more like a Glint or Jalis than a Ventari or Kalla, I suspect they'll make it work. But we'll see when the relevant beta comes.

 

Good point regarding chrono, too. Diviner's alacrigade does indeed still work there. From what I've seen, Shiro/Jalis seems to work well for that fight.

[Heinel.6548]

Well, Ventauri is base Revenant, which is from HoT, and is still unusable... so I'd say it's 4 out of 4. When guardians get their staff reworked the underwater version also got a rework to be easier to use. When they reworked spirit weapons, the underwater version is also reworked. Everything works. That's what I'd call a job complete. When it's the Revenant it's like they just gave up. It is still incomplete now and it's not just underwater either...

 

Tho specifically regarding healing, I think the devs aren't in a hurry to make a meta healing spec for revs, since we already have a utility role.

Edited August 22, 2021 by Heinel.6548

[Styopa.2538]

On 8/21/2021 at 11:58 PM, Zeph.5927 said:

There's a reason that HoT, PoF, and the LW seasons around them all have little to no underwater content.

 

I kind of feel that there would be an opportunity there for EoD but the screams from the fanbase would be very loud.

[Styopa.2538]

On 8/22/2021 at 10:26 AM, Heinel.6548 said:

When it's the Revenant it's like they just gave up

 

Notice that bug-reporting for 'revenant issues' is still under 'beta reports' ...didn't rev release in what, 2015, 6 years ago?

That's a looooong beta.  Like...Star-Citizen long.

[Buran.3796]

   Damage from underwater Rev is insane levels of broken, one of the few classes able to put in WvW a bunker druid in downed state in that environment and kill them no mater if their pet tries to rez them. Also, Planar Protection makes you invulnerable to most of underwater ranged attacks for at least 40% of the time. The only way you can struggle at PvE with underwater Rev is running those absurd minmaxed dps builds designed to get high numbers against piñata golems on ground. Clearly the class has the tools to endure fights underwater, just don't use a cockie cutter build...

Edited August 24, 2021 by Buran.3796

[draxynnic.3719]

3 hours ago, Buran.3796 said:

   Damage from underwater Rev is insane levels of broken, one of the few classes able to put in WvW a bunker druid in downed state in that environment and kill them no mater if their pet tries to rez them. Also, Planar Protection makes you invulnerable to most of underwater ranged attacks for at least 40% of the time. The only way you can struggle at PvE with underwater Rev is running those absurd minmaxed dps builds designed to get high numbers against piñata golems on ground. Clearly the class has the tools to endure fights underwater, just don't use a cockie cutter build...

Not saying you're wrong, but it doesn't help if your group was relying on you for healing and Aquatic is in the day's rotation.

[Master Ketsu.4569]

Ventari in general is the worst revenant legend and could just use a rework. Basically useless in PvP save for extreme meme builds. Very situational use in PvE. 100% worthless in WvW. 

[Aeolus.3615]

On 8/22/2021 at 6:19 AM, Za Shaloc.3908 said:

Yeah, feels bad. Been waiting for Legendary Seahorse Stance since HoT launch.

 

Water dragon :O

Toon gain 33% passive speed while on water or ac tivated via fields

Edited August 25, 2021 by Aeolus.3615

[Buran.3796]

19 hours ago, draxynnic.3719 said:

Not saying you're wrong, but it doesn't help if your group was relying on you for healing and Aquatic is in the day's rotation.

   My fault. I wasn't thinking about support healer Rev. Yeah, He's rigth on that.

[Thon.3780]

Should use condi herald instead? In underwater map

viper Or trailblazer or plague doctors if you wanna play support and rune torment 

then you can heal some with glint and shield , and remove condi with Mallyx + sustained with torment Attack combo gain healthfrom rune 

and can do some combo field life drain

 

Edited August 28, 2021 by Thon.3780

[Zenith.7301]

Healing rev isn't a thing in fractals anyways, you're just a worse firebrand in every way. The only thing you bring over a firebrand is better sustained raw healing, but you don't provide fury, your protection application is entirely reliant on using up energy on several warbands and having a low healing output period in the meantime ever since they gutted Soulcleave Summit with an ICD.

 

You bring no stability. You bring no swiftness. Your healing output and alacrity compete with energy for condition clear.  The costs on staff directly compete with your ventari skills for healing, and the orbs are a meme since the fools at Anet removed regen off the tablet in favor of that useless orb gimmick.

 

Most importantly, you don't cap might on your own while maintaining full alacrity and healing. They all compete for the same resource.
 

They need to remove energy costs off weaponskills already. Why is energy just a kitten version of thief initiative?

Edited August 29, 2021 by Zenith.7301

[GrayHawk.7560]

5 hours ago, Zenith.7301 said:

Healing rev isn't a thing in fractals anyways, you're just a worse firebrand in every way. The only thing you bring over a firebrand is better sustained raw healing, but you don't provide fury, your protection application is entirely reliant on using up energy on several warbands and having a low healing output period in the meantime ever since they gutted Soulcleave Summit with an ICD.

 

You bring no stability. You bring no swiftness. Your healing output and alacrity compete with energy for condition clear.  The costs on staff directly compete with your ventari skills for healing, and the orbs are a meme since the fools at Anet removed regen off the tablet in favor of that useless orb gimmick.

 

Most importantly, you don't cap might on your own while maintaining full alacrity and healing. They all compete for the same resource.
 

They need to remove energy costs off weaponskills already. Why is energy just a kitten version of thief initiative?

I don't play healing Rev at all so this is just a genuine question because I would love to learn but wouldn't playing herald and ventari fix a lot of those shortcomings? Save for stab of course but there is the bonus of extra boon duration, prot and regen?

 

Downside would be the loss of alacrity, a fair bit of damage and break bar hate I guess (which are all huge concessions).

 

(Again genuine question, I have no idea on this)

[JRZTT.1824]

That is why I hate Firebrand so much it was so good at almost everything and need in all content, I play it and not enjoy it.

 

I preferred Ren healer, I like the gimmick and I can heal at range with such a short CD, and good CC, annoying for the fact that Rev lack better range option till unlock Renegade though.

 

And yes I hate the fact that both Ventari/Renegade can't be use underwater as well. As Ven/Ren main, I was so annoying whenever Aquatic one came up.

 

I'm trying to unlock Herald at the moment, might use Dragon/Assassin instead, don't know how Herald do underwater. Dragon for regen/Assassin for life stealing so I can still heal somewhat. Not sure if this can work or not, need answer. Can't test it yet.

[RabbitUp.8294]

3 hours ago, GrayHawk.7560 said:

I don't play healing Rev at all so this is just a genuine question because I would love to learn but wouldn't playing herald and ventari fix a lot of those shortcomings? Save for stab of course but there is the bonus of extra boon duration, prot and regen?

 

Downside would be the loss of alacrity, a fair bit of damage and break bar hate I guess (which are all huge concessions).

 

(Again genuine question, I have no idea on this)

Firebrand doesn't actually have a lot of raw healing, and most of it is gated behind F2's cooldown. It mostly makes up for it with aegis, if the FB player is good at blociking big attacks with it.

 

Ventari on the other hand has too much raw healing, the Ventari skill (the one that also gives alacrity) can heal for 10k every 2 sec in heal gear, and that's just excessive.

 

Herald can go Glint/Jalis instead to access stability, get a lot of healing out of regen, combines with permanent uptime on all other boons (including 25 might now with the combo field change), Assassin's Presense, 10% damage reduction on Jalis F2 aura, boon extention. 

[Zenith.7301]

39 minutes ago, RabbitUp.8294 said:

Firebrand doesn't actually have a lot of raw healing, and most of it is gated behind F2's cooldown. It mostly makes up for it with aegis, if the FB player is good at blociking big attacks with it.

 

Ventari on the other hand has too much raw healing, the Ventari skill (the one that also gives alacrity) can heal for 10k every 2 sec in heal gear, and that's just excessive.

 

Herald can go Glint/Jalis instead to access stability, get a lot of healing out of regen, combines with permanent uptime on all other boons (including 25 might now with the combo field change), Assassin's Presense, 10% damage reduction on Jalis F2 aura, boon extention. 

HB is has plenty of healing, especially if you go virtues. What you state about heal rev is not that great anyways because healing can become redundant in the manner that you only need so much healing for content. It's why healscourge and heal tempest are still niche despite being better at preserving health bars than the other specs.

 

Supports are not only about healing, but about boons and utility. And the fact is firebrands can bring 25 might stacks (rev at best 15-20), fury (rev can't), high prot uptime, stability (rev can't without gutting their ability to heal), resolution (which rev can't), aegis (rev can't), easier condi removal, quickness, and the regen they took away from us and you only have when swapping legends to ventari now via invocation trait.

 

Even if you can heal with Ventari's main heal skill for 4-5k, that is useless in 100cm when the lasers come out and hit a member without protection boon for 10k+. 3rd phase Ao Ki's water tornadoes phase legit one shot an low health profession, and if you get clipped by 2 of them they one shot medium health professions. There's no healing through these things, because on top of that both these mechanics apply a bunch of crippling conditions like slow and confusion on top. Your condition removal skills have a delay and do less healing than your main form of healing while a healbrand immediately removes 2 conditions with a mantra at 3 stacks for a quick removal of 6 conditions, their staff 3-2 combo is an aoe cleanse on top. And while you have conditions up, you're not taking as much damage thanks to resolution. And aegis blocks off the immense damage spikes from laser and tornado phase. Aegis and stability also protect against mistakes on the fears. In 98cm, you can block the shade spawns so the group can stay on the boss and not trigger the poison aoe's as well.

 

This has always been the weakness of heal rev, their vulnerability to bursts of damage combined with immense energy costs and delay on condition cleanse directly competing against their healing tools.

 

Healer rev actually got weaker when they removed the adept trait giving tablet regen application and put in that garbage healing orbs mechanic all throughout the traits.

Edited August 29, 2021 by Zenith.7301

[Aeolus.3615]

On 8/29/2021 at 8:16 AM, Zenith.7301 said:

Healing rev isn't a thing in fractals anyways, you're just a worse firebrand in every way. The only thing you bring over a firebrand is better sustained raw healing, but you don't provide fury, your protection application is entirely reliant on using up energy on several warbands and having a low healing output period in the meantime ever since they gutted Soulcleave Summit with an ICD.

 

You bring no stability. You bring no swiftness. Your healing output and alacrity compete with energy for condition clear.  The costs on staff directly compete with your ventari skills for healing, and the orbs are a meme since the fools at Anet removed regen off the tablet in favor of that useless orb gimmick.

 

Most importantly, you don't cap might on your own while maintaining full alacrity and healing. They all compete for the same resource.
 

They need to remove energy costs off weaponskills already. Why is energy just a kitten version of thief initiative?

 

 

FB is just better utility overal compared with a decent Herald, i imagine herald passive healing alone is has much FB skills heal, my rev passive heal ticks 1.2k per sec  for each ally in 600 radios (affects 10 players) while providing perma m8 and fury.

Altough renegade fits game much better one can have a perma alacrigade making tyhe FB recover skills and recharging mantras away faster, while still prividing lots os stability and protection and probably some damage and vampiric heals if needed.

A full diviner renegade can still do some DPS and make all party cast most stuff since renegade alacrity affects 10 players.

 

At the moment  Renegade > Herald , in every game mode.

To be truth i dont think theres much content to play a support rev, its strong on raw healing but thats it.

 

Anet made the game supoper easy to one shot mobs its 1/0 gameplay.

 

Edited August 31, 2021 by Aeolus.3615