How do you play mesmer in open world?

[EpicName.4523]

I am here trying to get into the mesmer class and figuring out how to make the most of it. Is it more effective as power or condition? What gear would be good for condition mesmer in open world? Viper? Trailblazer? Rabid? A mix of the above? Is the staff good as a condition based build? Any build suggestions?

 

The concept of the mesmer is unique, but its mechanics feel like they leave something to be desired. I tried using this class with berserker gear and it looks very underwhelming, particularly in open world. It takes way too much time to spawn clones, the moment you kill a mob the clones disappear, there is serious lack of AoE outside of F1, and the damage is sooooo low...

 

For example, going on a Dragonhunter I equip a greatsword, put on a trap, press the greatsword 4+2 and stuff dies. 

I go Necro, activate shroud and one press of 4 usually leads to insta death of everything around me.

Even a squishy Elementalist may struggle to survive, but still provides decent AOE. 

 

Mesmer? No. No  issues surviving, it just takes way too much time to setup a kill where other classes have no such issues. Maybe I am playing it wrong? Maybe mesmer is supposed to be played based on condition damage to slowly drain the enemy instead of bursting it down? 

[Moradorin.6217]

16 minutes ago, EpicName.4523 said:

I am here trying to get into the mesmer class and figuring out how to make the most of it. Is it more effective as power or condition? What gear would be good for condition mesmer in open world? Viper? Trailblazer? Rabid? A mix of the above? Is the staff good as a condition based build? Any build suggestions?

 

The concept of the mesmer is unique, but its mechanics feel like they leave something to be desired. I tried using this class with berserker gear and it looks very underwhelming, particularly in open world. It takes way too much time to spawn clones, the moment you kill a mob the clones disappear, there is serious lack of AoE outside of F1, and the damage is sooooo low...

 

For example, going on a Dragonhunter I equip a greatsword, put on a trap, press the greatsword 4+2 and stuff dies. 

I go Necro, activate shroud and one press of 4 usually leads to insta death of everything around me.

Even a squishy Elementalist may struggle to survive, but still provides decent AOE. 

 

Mesmer? No. No  issues surviving, it just takes way too much time to setup a kill where other classes have no such issues. Maybe I am playing it wrong? Maybe mesmer is supposed to be played based on condition damage to slowly drain the enemy instead of bursting it down? 

No you are not playing it wrong per say. That sounds typical. Mesmer can have very good burst, or very good sustain, or good DPS w slow ramp up, but it stuggles to keep up bursts for typical OW unless you go all in on damage kinda. If you go all in on condi dps then you are still glass you have ok dps (not like ren, necro, thief, engi tho) but are still glass unless you go with trailblazers but that will seriously hamper you actual dps. Its fine for OW or caual play but not acceptable in raids especially considering how many are toughness designated tanking situations.

 

If you are really bent on sticking with Mesmer and want some fun OW a few options that are popular are: 2 Greatsword each with Stamina and energy sigils and run Mirage with IH, domination GS traits and what ever other traits you want depending on max damage or some sustain. The idea is that each kill and weapon swap refills you ability to dodge and each dodge does multi-beam attack so you kinda hit tons of targets at once and you can keep it up as long as you keep getting kills and swapping. It works best in meta events and things with lots of kills. Its 2 GS so its not what you want for things like soloing champs or anything tho. Condi Mirage or chrono can work too or even power chrono.

 

 I would say other then niche things like 2 GS on a meta event, certain raid bosses that favor condi or require mass invis + portal (escort) you are better off on others like DH, necro, ranger, guard, engineer. They will be more effective, and probably more fun and often will be much more effective for you and any party you happen to be in. Its not what I want to say TBH but its the truth.

[TheAgedGnome.7520]

57 minutes ago, EpicName.4523 said:

Mesmer? No. No  issues surviving, it just takes way too much time to setup a kill where other classes have no such issues. Maybe I am playing it wrong? Maybe mesmer is supposed to be played based on condition damage to slowly drain the enemy instead of bursting it down? 

 

Can you share the build you are using?

[Moradorin.6217]

1 minute ago, TheAgedGnome.7520 said:

 

Can you share the build you are using?

It would help but it doesnt seem necessary once you read that he is comparing to dragonhunter, scouge etc. I would say its hard to argue that mesmer isnt keeping up with being able to roll through open world and burst down trash and also be able to handle champs and stuff. Plenty of ok OW mesmer builds if you arent trying to compare burst + sustain. Once you make that comparison I think its pretty safe to say Mesmer is lacking. (in comparison) I mean just look at fractal and raid meta. Mesmer should be renamed "Meh-smer"

[Moradorin.6217]

If you LOVE your class than ANY class is just fine especially in OW, but I dont feel that is the OP's question

[EpicName.4523]

1 hour ago, TheAgedGnome.7520 said:

 

Can you share the build you are using?

 

 

I use this guy's recommendations and ALL of his builds are amazing, including the one he proposed for mesmer. Problem is...it is still a mesmer. 

 

Other than that, I was just curious if condition builds are better for open world, since the author is proposing a build that is of kind of jack of all trades, not one that is necessarily OP at everything.

[Kondor.2904]

3 hours ago, EpicName.4523 said:

 

 

I use this guy's recommendations and ALL of his builds are amazing, including the one he proposed for mesmer. Problem is...it is still a mesmer. 

 

Other than that, I was just curious if condition builds are better for open world, since the author is proposing a build that is of kind of jack of all trades, not one that is necessarily OP at everything.

pMirage deals less dmg than core power mesmer, just so you get the idea about this build's efficiency in ow, aside from mob tagging, and that's  without mentioning this particular suboptimal gear setup. That might be the reason you feel like you lack dps.

If we talk about efficient builds that you can also use later for comfortable transition into instanced PvE, you have 3 options:
Axe cMirage, Staff/Staff cMirage, pChrono

I'd just recommend using metabattle as a starting outline of what is played where, it presents a generally decent overview of efficient build options for different purposes, there are some questionable trait/gear/traitline choices for sure, but if you're new to the class, it shouldn't be your main concern now. And then find a sort of middle ground between fractal/raid and open world builds there. As for gear imo: berserker with assassins to crit cap for power, viper/trailblazer for condi, regular meta fractal/raid sigils and runes. The only exception is tormenting runes for condi builds, which i'd recommend for open world if you don't plan on chasing dps race in instanced content.

Edited August 27, 2021 by Kondor.2904

[SkyCake.4216]

Oooh, I've used a similar build with power Mirage and had a lot of fun with it. Really fun with MH sword. I'm currently running Condi Mirage, but it's a similar idea. I live next to the SeeD FC in FFXIV. I wonder if it's the same people as the guild in that video. Would be a fun "we live in a small world" situation. 

 

4 hours ago, EpicName.4523 said:

Other than that, I was just curious if condition builds are better for open world, since the author is proposing a build that is of kind of jack of all trades, not one that is necessarily OP at everything.

The Open World PvE build on metabattle has much higher damage than the build video. I'm running a mix of Celestial and Viper's while eating the obvious dodge food that every Mesmer already has (not the best food, just most fun). I made some changes to the build to better suit me having fun, but it pretty much instantly melts mobs and you can run into the middle of a Drizzlewood Coast camp without being downed. 

Metabattle Condi Mirage Build

I use staff instead of torch, replaced one of the signets with Blink, and sometimes switch between Renewing Oasis and Self-Deception. With the stability from shatters, condi cleanse from Jaunt, and all the dodges you'll pretty much be immortal. Most mobs will die before you shatter, but if you shatter soon enough then you clones will still run to the mob and deal damage/grant benefits even if it dies on the run there. Reliably solo champs in Drizzlewood, ect. I use arcDPS and tend to be near the top if not literally the top. Classics glass cannon builds or Necros will obviously beat you unless they do down (except the Necro).

You can give that a try. I would strongly suggest not going Trailblazers if you do. 

Edited August 27, 2021 by SkyCakeLight.3750

[TheAgedGnome.7520]

4 hours ago, EpicName.4523 said:

Other than that, I was just curious if condition builds are better for open world, since the author is proposing a build that is of kind of jack of all trades, not one that is necessarily OP at everything.

 

I have a power GS setup similar to that video, and its great in some circumstances, but overall for OW I prefer a celestial staff build that has GS as the second weapon. It's not going to be fastest at anything but its ultra-durable, and great for soloing and group support if you keep up the alacrity & might. Many condi builds use staff-swapping for extra energy for Mirage Cloaks, but I use Mirage Mirrors instead. That makes it more mobile and takes a bit more effort, but the MM are also providing weakness, which is always welcome.

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?PigAYFlRwgYRMPmJe6TpPNA-zxQYhICqRBfpEYIEREURC0RBI/aUF-e

[Genesis.5169]

Full dps, zerkers, or vipers dodge alot use all your buttons, also never shatter until you can replace all your clones as soon as you shatter. There's more to it but you've got to learn it as you play it.

[Ronald McDonald.8165]

5 hours ago, Genesis.5169 said:

Full dps, zerkers, or vipers dodge alot use all your buttons, also never shatter until you can replace all your clones as soon as you shatter. There's more to it but you've got to learn it as you play it.

This doesn't apply to power builds. And really isn't necessary in open world, more of a raid thing. In open world it's perfectly fine to shatter before you can replace them because everything dies so fast. 

 

To OP:

With power builds you really shouldn't be having any problem killing things fast. That is what power Mesmer is good at, big burst. You want to use Greatsword + Sword/(Pistol or Focus). You want to use your skills to quickly build clones and shatter them (F1 is your big damage shatter for Power builds, F2 for condition builds). You would do something like Phantasmal Berserker into Mirror Blade, Mirror Images, Mind Wrack, Mind Stab, (the Phantasmal Bersekers turn into clones) Mind Wrack again. You would do all that over the course of a couple seconds and do big damage. 

 

11 hours ago, Moradorin.6217 said:

It would help but it doesnt seem necessary once you read that he is comparing to dragonhunter, scouge etc. I would say its hard to argue that mesmer isnt keeping up with being able to roll through open world and burst down trash and also be able to handle champs and stuff. Plenty of ok OW mesmer builds if you arent trying to compare burst + sustain. Once you make that comparison I think its pretty safe to say Mesmer is lacking. (in comparison) I mean just look at fractal and raid meta. Mesmer should be renamed "Meh-smer"

If you think Mesmer is lacking in those departments, that is a L2P issue. Mesmer has some of the easiest open world builds. Axe with tormenting runes, Staff/Staff builds. Absolute easy mode to solo champions. Very far from meh. Builds do matter.

Edited August 28, 2021 by Ronald McDonald.8165

[Noodle Ant.1605]

maybe the tooltip of f1 should be changed to also include damage coming from IP/the mesmer, people always seem so fixated on stacking max clones when a 1 clone f1 is already 70% of a max clone f1…

[Nezekan.2671]

For berserker build, you want power mirage that spams dodge. Greatsword ambush is incredibly strong. If used with 3 clones, its the fastest application of 15+ aoe vulnerability, and the damage is good too while also providing might. Your entire build revolves around dodging and ambushing, and the clone generation will be very high as well, because you gain 1 clone when you dodge and greatsword is a good clone generator.

 

Here is the build:

 

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?PigAEFlVwUYXMJmJOyK5PNA-zhionUIzKAA-e

 

For reference, every time you dodge, you ambush, generate a clone who ambush immediately, you gain regen, you gain protection. All the while you don't take damage for 0.75 seconds. You will be dodging so much with this build that you will be in mirage cloak for 50% of the time. Take a close look at weapon sigils. We need them. We use 2 greatswords to simply swap if we need emergency endurance and we gain full endurance when we kill something. You will have more clones than you can shatter. Like really. There will be times you have 3 clones but all shatters are on cooldown. This also means you will have permanent vigor as shatters give vigor, which is good for this build. Signet of ether will provide A LOT of healing, we rarely ever need to use it, because the passive effect is way more beneficial.

Try it, you will not be disappointed. Greatsword ambush also guarantees tagging everything immediately in open world zegs so you get loot. This build has incredible burst and deals more power damage than any other mesmer build out there (in open world).

 

Feel free to use whatever armor rune you want. I usually use one that gives 25% movement speed so I can kite easier.

Edited August 28, 2021 by Nezekan.2671
Typos

[Zhaid Zhem.6508]

Power chrono diviner/pack http://gw2skills.net/editor/?PigAExjVYbWHckt0a6A-zRRYBRBGOsyIiCI9EQtB-e

You use GS #4 to trigger runes of pack, you earn back the fury / might, you spam all phantasms; perma quickness, fury and very high might cap, high alacrity uptime. Less BD is complicated; if runes trigger without phantasm etc it'll hurt dps badly; so you want to cap the 30sec from the start.

This is less bursty than berserker/scholar but overall DPS is higher alone in OW and you chain mobs faster; just because of boons and boons uptime.

 

Power mesmer

It's the same, but with dueling to give fury to phantasms. http://gw2skills.net/editor/?PigAExjVYbWHckV6WaA-zRIYRUwXGRUApnA2OA-e

It's not thad bad for OW. But the boon fart plus the chronophantasma despites the nerf still make previous build more confortable with higher DPS

 

 

Mirage :

Just put vipere or trailblazer and spam skills. Axe wIth sigil/runes of torment, or double staff with sigil of ernergy, cheap +30% endurance food (contained in the wvw canned food crate)...

Really it's just so easy you can't do it wrong.

[Moradorin.6217]

16 hours ago, Ronald McDonald.8165 said:

This doesn't apply to power builds. And really isn't necessary in open world, more of a raid thing. In open world it's perfectly fine to shatter before you can replace them because everything dies so fast. 

 

To OP:

With power builds you really shouldn't be having any problem killing things fast. That is what power Mesmer is good at, big burst. You want to use Greatsword + Sword/(Pistol or Focus). You want to use your skills to quickly build clones and shatter them (F1 is your big damage shatter for Power builds, F2 for condition builds). You would do something like Phantasmal Berserker into Mirror Blade, Mirror Images, Mind Wrack, Mind Stab, (the Phantasmal Bersekers turn into clones) Mind Wrack again. You would do all that over the course of a couple seconds and do big damage. 

 

If you think Mesmer is lacking in those departments, that is a L2P issue. Mesmer has some of the easiest open world builds. Axe with tormenting runes, Staff/Staff builds. Absolute easy mode to solo champions. Very far from meh. Builds do matter.

Its funny that you always make posts like this and direct them at me. You seem to like making derogatory and presumptive comments about other posts personally as opposed to just addressing the topic. That is you seem to want to make things personal like maybe you have some issues of your own you want to hide. I dont see the point since I was responding to the OP's topic best I could.

 

If you look at the quote from the OP more carefully perhaps you will see why I said what I said.

 

On 8/27/2021 at 9:02 AM, EpicName.4523 said:

particularly in open world. It takes way too much time to spawn clones, the moment you kill a mob the clones disappear, there is serious lack of AoE outside of F1, and the damage is sooooo low...

 

For example, going on a Dragonhunter I equip a greatsword, put on a trap, press the greatsword 4+2 and stuff dies. 

I go Necro, activate shroud and one press of 4 usually leads to insta death of everything around me.

Even a squishy Elementalist may struggle to survive, but still provides decent AOE. 

 

Mesmer? No. No  issues surviving, it just takes way too much time to setup a kill where other classes have no such issues. Maybe I am playing it wrong?

See those highlighted parts?? That's what I responded to. I think what I said was resonable.

 

If you then look at what I said:

On 8/27/2021 at 10:05 AM, Moradorin.6217 said:

Plenty of ok OW mesmer builds if you arent trying to compare burst + sustain. Once you make that comparison I think its pretty safe to say Mesmer is lacking. (in comparison) I mean just look at fractal and raid meta. Mesmer should be renamed "Meh-smer"

Its fairly limited in scope and specific to comparing Mesmer's ability to keep up with running around quickly killing any trash or mix of mobs in groups or alone as we all find in OW. In those instances I would say Mesmer is pretty Meh compared to guard, rev, ranger, necro, even thief, engi, etc. I would prefer to use any of those these days over my mesmer for both Open World and things like Fractals and raids because they just do better. We don't even have to take my opinion on this aspect to verify this is the case. Look at both the fractal meta and raid meta and tell me how Im wrong?? Please avoid the personal attacks in the future. I find it impolite and unnecessary. You act as if the Fractal and raid meta is the way it is because I need to L2P to make it meta. Pardon me, but now the kitten does that have anything to do with how Mesmer itself performs, again refer to the fractal meta and raid meta. Look on lucky-noobs, discretize, snowcrow's then tell me then too just need to L2P Mesmer and get gud omg so sad.

Edited August 28, 2021 by Moradorin.6217
added underlines

[Kyla Jane.6138]

Mesmer has been nerfed too many times that other classes are better. Next is ele and all its specializations. It's worse than mesmer. 

[mungozen.2379]

I don’t use a specific build in open world. I modify what I am playing with depending on the circumstances.  Chrono Support with GS makes ranged tagging easy,  and is fine for buffing quickness and alacrity. Chronophantasma is too slow most of the time, so I stopped using it before the nerf.  I found that it is easier to get gold rewards/inclusion by buffing players than by just doing DPS, especially when arriving to an event late.  

I usually run Marauders or Celestial gear for no real reason, they just work out okay with various non-meta builds that I come up with. Offering a lot of sustain, I never die to random stuff, and can ignore some mechanics or just be lazy.  
 

I like suggesting a player experiment with their profession, I can solo a lot of champs and bounties with bad builds because I understand my profession and what I want going into a fight.  I understand why say, a chrono wells build is not meta, but have enjoyed being successful with it once I figured it out. 
 

this game is too easy in OW to really worry about a meta build in my opinion.   However, you do still need to learn the profession no matter what build you try. 

Edited August 29, 2021 by Mungo Zen.9364

[Zenith.7301]

For tagging mesmer is just awful, that simple. Get a staff ele, reaper, or dragonhunter. If you're OK with mesmer's handicap, you can play it in OW anyways.

[Kondor.2904]

1 hour ago, Zenith.7301 said:

For tagging mesmer is just awful, that simple. Get a staff ele, reaper, or dragonhunter. If you're OK with mesmer's handicap, you can play it in OW anyways.

GS Mirage is one of the best classes for mob tagging, wdym

[mungozen.2379]

2 hours ago, Zenith.7301 said:

For tagging mesmer is just awful, that simple. Get a staff ele, reaper, or dragonhunter. If you're OK with mesmer's handicap, you can play it in OW anyways.

Hold GS1 and tab target?  You can switch targets while attacking like this to tag multiple mobs. It also tags anything it touched between you and the target and at 1200 range.  I have found staff else and staff Necro to be fine and fun, GS Mesmer tags as well or better than them. 

[otto.5684]

I can see how Mesmer can be counter intuitive. It was the first class I played, since it is unique to GW, and can take a while to get used. Mesmer survivability vary significantly.
 

There are few ways to play. You can play core power, but it is Mesmer weakest form. It has burst damage but sucks in every other respect. And cannot (well you can) be played condi. Power Chrono is an upgrade in every way. I would recommend great sword, Chrono/domination/duelist. Just stay outside of melee range, GS skill 2 can wipe most trash. Phantasms will take of everything else. Just maintain your distance. Sword is viable, but I would recommend against it in open world.

 

And mirage. Power mirage is not a thing in pve. Condi mirage is Mesmer OP pve ultimate form. Your survivability will go up significantly. You still won’t tank things straight out, but there are so many evades. And condi removal is built in to elite. With chaos line you can easily maintain regeneration, which has some outlandish bonuses. Easy to have great up time on protection. Easy to get chaos armor. And staff is transformed from a utility weapon to a super utility weapon plus pretty good damage (with some buildup). Axe can dish significant amount of torment in not time. And just run torment runes. You will heal like no tomorrow. Not that torment runes are needed, but they really turn your mirage pretty high survivability to near unkillable, specially when using staff, as you can maintain distance and keep jumping all over the place/avoiding damage while clones carry the damage. 
 

I think in the current iteration of balance, staff condi mirage, with torment runes is the most survivable build in pve.

 

I always recommend damage maximization, so berserker gear for power and viper for condi. It is easier to fit in HP and/or toughness in condi builds, if you feel it is needed.

[otto.5684]

9 hours ago, Mungo Zen.9364 said:

Hold GS1 and tab target?  You can switch targets while attacking like this to tag multiple mobs. It also tags anything it touched between you and the target and at 1200 range.  I have found staff else and staff Necro to be fine and fun, GS Mesmer tags as well or better than them. 

GS skills 2, 3 and 4 all have large aoe application. Is GS the best thing ever for tagging? But definitely up there. You won’t be missing out if you use. Plus in most none core maps, mobs scale up in level with more players. Tagging is rarely an issue.

[Blood Red Arachnid.2493]

I'm one of the few people I know that runs a full diviner STM chrono in the open world.  I originally bought the set to give quickness  + alacrity in fractals.  Since then, I've discovered that buffer chrono is the biggest force multiplier in the game.  The version I take to the overworld looks something like this:

 

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?PixAExzlVw8YaMH2JOyKdNXA-zRJYwRNfZURGkeJY7qsbA-e

 

This is set up for group support.  It has very little trouble killing things on its own, though.  A solo version would run illusions over dueling to make use of Persistence of Memory, Phantasmal Force, Phantasmal Haste.  

[Mik.3401]

People make Mesmer look difficult but in reality it is very easy in open world. You either spam clones to cast attacks with you (condi) and hide behind them so enemies don’t aggro you OR you just go pure power and shatter like crazy dealing massive damage.

At any point if things get bad you can generate clones to make enemies attack them, stealth or blink away. It is a great convenience, most classes don’t have that, they need to face tank everything they face or flee in traditional manner

[Ronald McDonald.8165]

On 8/28/2021 at 5:11 PM, Moradorin.6217 said:

Its funny that you always make posts like this and direct them at me. You seem to like making derogatory and presumptive comments about other posts personally as opposed to just addressing the topic. That is you seem to want to make things personal like maybe you have some issues of your own you want to hide. I dont see the point since I was responding to the OP's topic best I could.

 

If you look at the quote from the OP more carefully perhaps you will see why I said what I said.

 

See those highlighted parts?? That's what I responded to. I think what I said was resonable.

 

If you then look at what I said:

Its fairly limited in scope and specific to comparing Mesmer's ability to keep up with running around quickly killing any trash or mix of mobs in groups or alone as we all find in OW. In those instances I would say Mesmer is pretty Meh compared to guard, rev, ranger, necro, even thief, engi, etc. I would prefer to use any of those these days over my mesmer for both Open World and things like Fractals and raids because they just do better. We don't even have to take my opinion on this aspect to verify this is the case. Look at both the fractal meta and raid meta and tell me how Im wrong?? Please avoid the personal attacks in the future. I find it impolite and unnecessary. You act as if the Fractal and raid meta is the way it is because I need to L2P to make it meta. Pardon me, but now the kitten does that have anything to do with how Mesmer itself performs, again refer to the fractal meta and raid meta. Look on lucky-noobs, discretize, snowcrow's then tell me then too just need to L2P Mesmer and get gud omg so sad.

I don't think I have ever directed a post at you before this.  So calm down buddy.

 

In regards to your wall of text at the bottom, WTF are you going on about? This topic is about open world. I literally state I am talking about open world. I state I am talking about soloing Champions in the open world. If you wanna have a discussion about Fractals or Raids, thats a totally different topic. Like I said, Mesmer has some of the best open world builds. Slap on tormenting runes and you are next to invincible, you can literally solo some Legendaries.