Why doesn't GW2 have the option of 1x1 duels??

[Vayne.8563]

3 minutes ago, Sir Alymer.3406 said:

Yeah, then those people are just jerks, so block, report, and move on.

This game is similar enough to ESO for me to say that it'd not cause the same problems you're fearing from your experience in WoW, here.  People in there duel in set places around set areas because it's either

1) Flat enough to be a fair battleground
2) Interesting enough to fight around
3) Outside of the visible range of the guards (That one doesn't matter here) so use of criminal abilities doesn't get a bounty pinned on you.

Is there the occasional butt that takes it too far?  Yes.  They exist everywhere in every aspect of any game.  This isn't justification to not have something added and people need to realize this sooner, rather than later.

However, from a technical standpoint, open world duels are dumb.  They wouldn't work.  ANet would have to figure out a way to implement pvp/wvw balance  when a duel is initiated and only for those who are actually dueling, or  just do away with pvp/wvw/pve balance split.  Neither of which are a viable method for this.  Though, really, there may be a way to do it via instancing within the cities by adding a custom lobby NPC somewhere nearby to show people all the awesome custom  arenas they could play in.

I also just figured out, that in a game like WoW, unless you're a mad altoholic, you quickly bypass that area in the game where that happens. But in Guild Wars 2, that might not be the case, because people do return to starter zones. It would certainly leave a bad first impression on me, as it did when I was first trying WoW.

[Epsilon Indi.2031]

1 minute ago, Vayne.8563 said:

I also just figured out, that in a game like WoW, unless you're a mad altoholic, you quickly bypass that area in the game where that happens. But in Guild Wars 2, that might not be the case, because people do return to starter zones. It would certainly leave a bad first impression on me, as it did when I was first trying WoW.

So Anet makes it so players can't duel each other until they're 80 and lock it behind a specific core tyria mastery (That you can ignore getting).  Boom, done. easy.  Can't be harassed if you don't have the mastery as the option to send duels to you isn't even there.

[Vayne.8563]

1 minute ago, Sir Alymer.3406 said:

So Anet makes it so players can't duel each other until they're 80 and lock it behind a specific core tyria mastery (That you can ignore getting).  Boom, done. easy.  Can't be harassed if you don't have the mastery as the option to send duels to you isn't even there.

That's good. I can almost be on board with that.

Let me ask you though. You can duel in WvW and PvP already. For those who don't like it, don't want it, or are uncomfortable with it, where now is their safe spot. 

 

Cause I know if I were crafting and two guys were dueling over me, it was be very annoying. Or two guys dueling near to an event that gets scaled because they're there, even though I'd be the only one doing the event. The game simply isn't designed for it, and I don't believe the effort/time to create this right would be worth it compared to what else Anet could work on in it's place. 

[Naxian.9823]

1 minute ago, Vayne.8563 said:

That's good. I can almost be on board with that.

Let me ask you though. You can duel in WvW and PvP already. For those who don't like it, don't want it, or are uncomfortable with it, where now is their safe spot. 

 

Cause I know if I were crafting and two guys were dueling over me, it was be very annoying. Or two guys dueling near to an event that gets scaled because they're there, even though I'd be the only one doing the event. The game simply isn't designed for it, and I don't believe the effort/time to create this right would be worth it compared to what else Anet could work on in it's place. 

They could sell the ability to duel in the open world in the gem store. This way everyone wins.

Of course with all the limitations that we have discussed before (not possible to duel near merchants, events, vistas, cities, waypoints, etc).

[flog.3485]

Honestly it would be way better to enhance dueling in WvW. That way, you could just invite anyone you want, regardless of the relink system or rather the future alliance system.

Just make it so that to allow invites you both need to be on each other’s friends lists and basically allow players to duel in any territory that the team owns. That way you create a game within the game where you have some incentive to defend the different territories or at the very least could duel in the home safe zone.

[Epsilon Indi.2031]

3 minutes ago, Vayne.8563 said:

That's good. I can almost be on board with that.

Let me ask you though. You can duel in WvW and PvP already. For those who don't like it, don't want it, or are uncomfortable with it, where now is their safe spot. 

 

Cause I know if I were crafting and two guys were dueling over me, it was be very annoying. Or two guys dueling near to an event that gets scaled because they're there, even though I'd be the only one doing the event. The game simply isn't designed for it, and I don't believe the effort/time to create this right would be worth it compared to what else Anet could work on in it's place. 

Anywhere in the open world.  You act like people are going to get this option and immediately single out you and others to spam with duel invites when that's simply not the case.

[Vayne.8563]

28 minutes ago, Sir Alymer.3406 said:

Anywhere in the open world.  You act like people are going to get this option and immediately single out you and others to spam with duel invites when that's simply not the case.

Yep, no one would ever do that. Or put portals on chests in AB. It just never happens. Because there are no trolls. Honestly, I think you underestimate the amount of people who once given a tool to troll will use it to troll.  I believe this deeply. That's why open world PvE in this game has remained so good and welcoming. There are fewer ways for people to troll than other games.

My question is why give them that tool at all?

[Imba.9451]

2 hours ago, Ultramex.1506 said:

And why should Anet add a solution to a problem when they can just, you know, not adding the problem?
Jesus, don't be like Imba.9451 comparing to duel invite with infusion

I compare stupid arguments with stupid arguments.

 

You all make it seem like the world would end with duels, the sky going dark and people releasing their inner demons, society collapsing and birthing a new dark age of chaos.

Purely build on speculation. Because thats what your arguments are. Speculation. And as long as someone might have to fear to something that can possibly happen, while also refusing to use options that stop other from harassing you is simply a bad argument.

 

Sorry, but I dunno how this derailed thread isn't moderated.

Edited September 4, 2021 by Imba.9451

[Vayne.8563]

6 minutes ago, Imba.9451 said:

I compare stupid arguments with stupid arguments.

 

You all make it seem like the world would end with duels, the sky going dark and people releasing their inner demons, society collapsing and birthing a new dark age of chaos.

Purely build on speculation. Because thats what your arguments are. Speculation. And as long as someone might have to fear to something that can possibly happen, while also refusing to use options that stop other from harassing you is simply a bad argument.

 

Sorry, but I dunno how this derailed thread isn't moderated.

Not built on speculation. Built on experience with other games. It shouldn't surprise anyone that the experiences we've had in other games aren't an issue to people who like dueling, right? Why would it be?

So what you're really saying is, this doesn't affect me so it's fine.

No one is saying the world is ending. We're saying we want to enjoy our game with a minimum of trolling and annoyance. As you have the right to ask for dueling (which I believe you'll never get anyway), we have the right to ask for it not to be added to the game because it makes the game worse for us. 

So which group is in the bigger percentage? The group that really really wants dueling, or the group that would be occassionally annoyed by it.  I suspect, though I can't prove it, that the group that is annoyed but it is a pretty big group. In a game where PvE has been built since launch around cooperation, this goes against the grain of the game as intended by the developers.

We're asking for the game to remain as it is, you're the one asking for it to change, and when we object to that change, you use hyperbole to try to ridicule our point of view.  And you think this is okay. I find that people who want dueling find these sorts of direct attacks okay. I personally don't. 

[Ultramex.1506]

1 hour ago, Imba.9451 said:

I compare stupid arguments with stupid arguments.

 

You all make it seem like the world would end with duels, the sky going dark and people releasing their inner demons, society collapsing and birthing a new dark age of chaos.

Purely build on speculation. Because thats what your arguments are. Speculation. And as long as someone might have to fear to something that can possibly happen, while also refusing to use options that stop other from harassing you is simply a bad argument.

 

Sorry, but I dunno how this derailed thread isn't moderated.

Derailed? Wanna take a look again? Who came up with the dye analogy? Who responded saying that analogy is bad?
And world-ending? Funny how most world-ending i read is from those that support dueling, painting other people as dramatic without realizing you r one
How many post about this gonna pop up? How many weird arguments are gonna make that havent already been discussed to dead?

[kharmin.7683]

4 hours ago, Naxian.9823 said:

 

Also, I just want to let you all know, althought you don't care, that I want duels in this game to be able to duel FOR FUN, with my best friend, meanwhile we play the rest of the game in Tyria. I don't want to interrump what we are doing to go to some instanced lobby to be able to duel. We (us 2, again I speak for me and my friend), we don't want to duel anyone else, and we (my friend and I) don't want any rewards, neither any balance attatched to the idea of being able to duel in the open world.

 

Sorry, but that is not how GW2 is designed.  There are many other games out there that allow dueling in open world.  You're welcome to play those to get your OW dueling fix.

[Naxian.9823]

4 minutes ago, kharmin.7683 said:

Sorry, but that is not how GW2 is designed.  There are many other games out there that allow dueling in open world.  You're welcome to play those to get your OW dueling fix.

You could say the same thing about mounts back then before POF.... This argument doesn't hold.

[kharmin.7683]

1 minute ago, Naxian.9823 said:

You could say the same thing about mounts back then before POF.... This argument doesn't hold.

PoF was designed with mounts in mind.  GW2 has never been designed with OW Dueling in mind.  Not sure the point you're trying to  make?

Edited September 4, 2021 by kharmin.7683
Clarification

[ledernierrempart.6871]

give us pvp skill cd/stats in guild hall arena!!

[Naxian.9823]

30 minutes ago, kharmin.7683 said:

PoF was designed with mounts in mind.  GW2 has never been designed with OW Dueling in mind.  Not sure the point you're trying to  make?

They point is that GW2 was not designed with mounts in the OW in mind. HoT wasn't designed with mounts in the OW in mind. Then POF came and that changed. The same can be said about duels if they are implemented.

I'm still waiting for someone to tell my why is not a good a idea to implement duels in OW that need to be unlocked throught the gem store. I only see good things about it. Arenanet gets a direct return and the players that doesn't want to be involved in dueling just don't buy it.

[kharmin.7683]

1 minute ago, Naxian.9823 said:

They point is that GW2 was not designed with mounts in the OW in mind. HoT wasn't designed with mounts in the OW in mind. Then POF came and that changed. The same can be said about duels if they are implemented.

I'm still waiting for someone to tell my why is not a good a idea to implement duels in OW that need to be unlocked throught the gem store. I only see good things about it. Arenanet gets a direct return and the players that doesn't want to be involved in dueling just don't buy it.

They don't need to implement dueling in OW because the game was designed with a mode specifically for dueling.  You cannot equate dueling with mounts as an argument. 

Yes, PoF was designed with mounts in mind.  I highly doubt that Anet will release any expansion with OW dueling as it's core selling point, especially --again-- since a mode already exists for dueling.

[Cyninja.2954]

12 minutes ago, Naxian.9823 said:

They point is that GW2 was not designed with mounts in the OW in mind. HoT wasn't designed with mounts in the OW in mind. Then POF came and that changed. The same can be said about duels if they are implemented.

I'm still waiting for someone to tell my why is not a good a idea to implement duels in OW that need to be unlocked throught the gem store. I only see good things about it. Arenanet gets a direct return and the players that doesn't want to be involved in dueling just don't buy it.

Actually a good example, just not for what you were going for.

 

Vanilla GW2 WAS designed without mounts in mind. Now mounts are great, which does not change the fact that they break large parts of the game (and in fact require completely new approaches to map design going forward, which is not necessarily a good thing).

 

So to use your offered comparison: given that mounts enhanced the game play experience for a lot of players (which we know dueling would not), yet even with this beneficial aspect BROKE large parts of the game, why exactly is it a good idea to add duels again?

 

Didn't think that one through did we?

Edited September 4, 2021 by Cyninja.2954

[Naxian.9823]

8 minutes ago, kharmin.7683 said:

They don't need to implement dueling in OW because the game was designed with a mode specifically for dueling.  You cannot equate dueling with mounts as an argument. 

Yes, PoF was designed with mounts in mind.  I highly doubt that Anet will release any expansion with OW dueling as it's core selling point, especially --again-- since a mode already exists for dueling.

 

I don't understand why those of you who don't like duels, are trying so hard to sell us the available dueling options the game has, as if they were good enought. If they were, we would't have this conversation.

The game came with dungeons, but players said that they were not good enought, so arenanet made fractals and then raids and strike missions. This is a similar situation. The only difference is that the players who ask for duels are a vocal minority, and there's also a vocal minority against it.

 

3 minutes ago, Cyninja.2954 said:

Actually a good example, just not for what you were going for.

 

Vanilla GW2 WAS designed without mounts in mind. Now mounts are great, which does not change the fact that they break large parts of the game.

 

So to use your offered comparison: given that mounts enhanced the game play experience for a lot of players (which we know dueling would not), yet even with this beneficial aspect BROKE large parts of the game, why exactly is it a good idea to add duels again?

 

Didn't think that one through did we?

Can you please point me how duels would break the game given the limitations that I've said so far? (no dueling allowed near events, vistas, merchants, chest, waypoints, cities; and having to buy it through the gem store to be able to duel). Thanks.

[Cyninja.2954]

4 minutes ago, Naxian.9823 said:

 

Can you please point me how duels would break the game given the limitations that I've said so far? (no dueling allowed near events, vistas, merchants, chest, waypoints, cities; and having to buy it through the gem store to be able to duel). Thanks.

I've already given 3 examples which explain this, and they are unrelated to vicinity but mere presence on the map. Go find my earlier reply in this thread if you decided to skip arguments. (and even go well with the theme of having to reconsider how to design maps even WITH some of those limitations not in place, assuming that they can be remedied).

 

You're even giving part of the answer yourself here:

In order for dueling spaces to exist, future maps would need to be designed with areas for them, aka no events, vistas, merchants, etc near by.

Edited September 4, 2021 by Cyninja.2954

[kharmin.7683]

1 minute ago, Cyninja.2954 said:

I've already given 3 examples which explain this, and they are unrelated to vicinity but mere presence on the map. Go find my earlier reply in this thread if you decided to skip arguments.

Or read the many previous threads on the topic. 

[Naxian.9823]

1 minute ago, Cyninja.2954 said:

I've already given 3 examples which explain this, and they are unrelated to vicinity but mere presence on the map. Go find my earlier reply in this thread if you decided to skip arguments.

So the presence of a few duelist in a map in the open world is more damaging to the rest of players than the presence of roleplayers, people only gathering resources or afk players?

[kharmin.7683]

3 minutes ago, Naxian.9823 said:

 

I don't understand why those of you who don't like duels, are trying so hard to sell us the available dueling options the game has, as if they were good enought. If they were, we would't have this conversation.

The game came with dungeons, but players said that they were not good enought, so arenanet made fractals and then raids and strike missions. This is a similar situation. The only difference is that the players who ask for duels are a vocal minority, and there's also a vocal minority against it.

To me, this seems to be another ill-formed argument by comparison.  I don't believe that to be true with regards to dungeons.  Fractals, if I recall, were designed to replace dungeons.  Raids were released with HoT to bring in the raiding crowd of players.  Strike missions were made because people complained about raids.

As for the current mode not being good enough, apparently to date Anet disagrees with you.

[Naxian.9823]

Just now, kharmin.7683 said:

As for the current mode not being good enough, apparently to date Anet disagrees with you.

And that is why we are discussing it on the forums, see? Is not a tool to go to someone else and say "You are wrong". Is a tool useful to share points of view.

[Cyninja.2954]

6 minutes ago, Naxian.9823 said:

So the presence of a few duelist in a map in the open world is more damaging to the rest of players than the presence of roleplayers, people only gathering resources or afk players?

 

Okay, let's go again since you seem to lazy to actually go through the topic:

 

1. going by your own argument, those duelists would need their own special place. You said yourself: they would/should not interfere with vistas, merchants, events, etc. THAT alone is a change in map design.

 

2. yes, spaces on the map occupied by players are places lost for other intents on this map. This already happens in WvW for example and is an issue there. This already happens in PvE via other players who area idle, etc. There is 0!!! reason to make this problem larger

 

3. we know that which balance and skills are in effect (Spvp, PvE or WvW) is map specific and can NOT, as far as we know, be mixed. In short: it is techincally not possible to have a pvp ruleset in a pve map

 

4. high skill usage creates lag. We just now had a patch released where the developers INTENTIONALLY reduced precast skills to fight skill lag. We know this is map wide from high skill usage in WvW or high population pve maps

 

Do these reasons suffice to answer your question as to WHY this is not beneficial? Besides all the other more subjective player preference reasons.

Edited September 4, 2021 by Cyninja.2954

[Linken.6345]

14 minutes ago, Naxian.9823 said:

So the presence of a few duelist in a map in the open world is more damaging to the rest of players than the presence of roleplayers, people only gathering resources or afk players?

Yes it is all the 3 people you listed play the game without altering it at all open world duels alter it in a bad way since you want spvp balance when you duel right?

And that mean they would have to redisign every map in the game with small dueling areas for you to do your duels.

 

And if its not close enough to what your waiting for while doing your duel people will complain.