Why doesn't GW2 have the option of 1x1 duels??

[Imba.9451]

57 minutes ago, Kurrilino.2706 said:

 

You guys don't get it.

 

RP is already a part of the PvE world and has always been.

 

How difficult is it for you guys to understand that nobody wants you PvP in the PvE world.

It is really as simple as that regardless of how nicely you color dueling

This thread: exists

 

You are entitled to your opinion. And only to yours.

[Vayne.8563]

4 hours ago, Naxian.9823 said:

They point is that GW2 was not designed with mounts in the OW in mind. HoT wasn't designed with mounts in the OW in mind. Then POF came and that changed. The same can be said about duels if they are implemented.

I'm still waiting for someone to tell my why is not a good a idea to implement duels in OW that need to be unlocked throught the gem store. I only see good things about it. Arenanet gets a direct return and the players that doesn't want to be involved in dueling just don't buy it.

Open world PvE in Guild Wars 2 was specifically designed to be cooperative, not competitive. As such it attracts a cooperative crowd, because if it's design. We don't fight over nodes. We don't fight to tag kills. Everyone gets credit, everyone gets rewards.

 

Every time a heart or something comes out where people have to compete with each other, there are complaints from the playerbase in many times Anet fixes the problem.

 

Now, we have a situation where you want to fundamentally change the idea of PvE and add something that most of the people playing it regularly probably won't be in favor of.

See, people who want duels are the ones changing the game and I've yet to see one single pro that doesn't involve, because I want to do this. That's the pro. At the expense of people possibly trolling. People interfering in dynamic events and scaling them up.

You're the one asking for Anet to spend resources on something that most people probably don't care about. In my mind, not enough people want it for it to justify the cost of putting it into the game.

[Obtena.7952]

2 hours ago, Imba.9451 said:

You got that wrong.

We were discussing the reason why the commander fights Hero-Point NPC's around the world story-wise. And the reason usually is training, or any variation of "Hey, you really so tough? Prove it!"

No I don't have that wrong. Nothing about that part of OW content is an indication that its purpose is to train people for PVP. If you view that as training for PVP, I'm just going to go back to the fact that if it is, it's the worst training for PVP that someone could possibly imagine because it in no way enables you to learn about how PVP works or how to play it. 

Edited September 4, 2021 by Obtena.7952

[Epsilon Indi.2031]

11 hours ago, Vayne.8563 said:

Yep, no one would ever do that. Or put portals on chests in AB. It just never happens. Because there are no trolls. Honestly, I think you underestimate the amount of people who once given a tool to troll will use it to troll.  I believe this deeply. That's why open world PvE in this game has remained so good and welcoming. There are fewer ways for people to troll than other games.

My question is why give them that tool at all?

The difference between portals on chests in AB/TD is that, with duel requests, you'd be able to set them to auto-decline and if the person keeps whispering you, you can report and block.

[kharmin.7683]

If this were to ever be implemented, it ought to be opt-in, not opt-out.

[Imba.9451]

3 hours ago, Obtena.7952 said:

No I don't have that wrong. Nothing about that part of OW content is an indication that its purpose is to train people for PVP. If you view that as training for PVP, I'm just going to go back to the fact that if it is, it's the worst training for PVP that someone could possibly imagine because it in no way enables you to learn about how PVP works or how to play it. 

Are you intentionally misreading what I said?

I never made the claim that it`s training for PvP. We were discussing the Story reason for why people would fight each other in the open world. And I said, a possible reason could be that the characters in-universe want to train.

 

I have no idea how you brought "training for pvp" into this, i didn't mention this once. So yes, you got it wrong. Twice now.

[Obtena.7952]

36 minutes ago, Imba.9451 said:

Are you intentionally misreading what I said?

I never made the claim that it`s training for PvP. We were discussing the Story reason for why people would fight each other in the open world. And I said, a possible reason could be that the characters in-universe want to train.

 

I have no idea how you brought "training for pvp" into this, i didn't mention this once. So yes, you got it wrong. Twice now.

PVE mobs do not act like players, so what are you actually suggesting the training is for if not for PVP? like somehow you equated fighting a player to prepare you for OW PVE ... or fighting a OW NPC to prepare you for PVP? IN EITHER case, that doesn't make sense. 

 

Again, the point here is that there isn't a 'story' surrounding the implementation of 1v1 duels in OW. Just because you can imagine inventing a story (which is how RPers play) where you 'train' by 1v1 for ... whatever you are thinking ... doesn't change that fact. Again, whether you realize it or not, your suggestion of 'making your own story' for the purpose of 'training' is related to implementing 1v1 as an RP feature, because in practical terms, it's not training for anything because there is no relation between PVE NPC's and player controlled characters. 

Edited September 4, 2021 by Obtena.7952

[Imba.9451]

1 minute ago, Obtena.7952 said:

What else would they be 'training' for?

 

Again, the point here is that there isn't a 'story' surrounding the implementation of 1v1 duels in OW. Just because you can imagine inventing a story (which is how RP'ers play) where you 'train' doesn't change that fact. 

They train for the events in the story. Like beating Zhaitan. Beating Mordremoth. Beating Balthazar, Kralk, whatever.

You asked for an in-universe reason, and there it is. And considering Anet provided the very exact same reason for why we fight certain NPC's in the open world, it's pretty much the same. Even waypoints and fast travel are integrated in the story and lore (wich was a bad decision imho), therefore it is pretty easy to tie in OW duels into the story and lore as well.

[Obtena.7952]

10 minutes ago, Imba.9451 said:

They train for the events in the story. Like beating Zhaitan. Beating Mordremoth. Beating Balthazar, Kralk, whatever.

You asked for an in-universe reason, and there it is. 

Which is silly, because fighting a player 1v1 isn't training for story events in OW.  PVE NPC's don't act like players, they have different attack skills than players do, so the idea 1v1 duels is 'training' for PVE makes no sense. Like somehow having all this 1v1 experience is going to prep you for fighting Balthazar at the end of PoF for example? That's nonsense. It can't. 

 

The idea that PVE is there to train people to PVP is absurd to begin with, much less be a reason to implement 1v1 duels in OW. 

 

 

Edited September 4, 2021 by Obtena.7952

[Imba.9451]

15 minutes ago, Obtena.7952 said:

Which is silly, because fighting a player 1v1 isn't training for story events in OW. 

It's an in-universe explanation for why 2 "good guys" fight each other. Nothing more was asked. What you describe is training, as in training the mechanical skill of the player. Different topic entirely.

15 minutes ago, Obtena.7952 said:

PVE NPC's don't act like players, they have different attack skills than players do, so the idea 1v1 duels is 'training' for PVE makes no sense.

It makes sense as an in-universe explanation.

15 minutes ago, Obtena.7952 said:

Like somehow having all this 1v1 experience is going to prep you for fighting Balthazar at the end of PoF for example? That's nonsense. It can't. 

Well, it kinda does. If you can dodge player-ettacks, you can also dodge red patterns on the floor. But thats not the point. It's an in-universe explanation. The thing you asked for.

15 minutes ago, Obtena.7952 said:

 

The idea that PVE is there to train people to PVP is absurd to begin with, much less be a reason to implement 1v1 duels in OW. 

Wich was never the topic to begin with. You brought that up, despite me never making any claim into that direction. I dunno who you argue against here.

 

[Obtena.7952]

14 minutes ago, Imba.9451 said:

It's an in-universe explanation for why 2 "good guys" fight each other. Nothing more was asked.

 

Then that has no value to the conversation. We can invent any reason for something to exist in game. The valued question is if it makes sense. Implementing 1v1 duels as an RP feature for 'training' for PVE encounters ... sure, it can be done ... but it doesn't make sense to do so because OW supports the story Anet creates. If players want to create their own stories, etc ... they do it around the constraints of the world they are in created by Anet. You don't need 1v1 to 'train' for endgame mobs ... you can do that in the beginner areas against level 1 mobs ... Anet even created an actual tutorial for that. It's not a reason to add it, EVEN from the story perspective of 'training'. 

 

Maybe if RP was more prevalent and this was a feature being asked by RPers ... OK. But it's not. It's simply being asked by the OP to implement for the convenience of dueling. That doesn't make sense from the perspective of the idea that OW exists to support the story Anet creates for us to experience. 

Edited September 4, 2021 by Obtena.7952

[Imba.9451]

6 minutes ago, Obtena.7952 said:

Then that has no value to the conversation. We can invent any reason for something to exist in game.

Thats true. But you asked for it.

6 minutes ago, Obtena.7952 said:

The valued question is if it makes sense. Implementing 1v1 duels as an RP feature for 'training' for PVE encounters ... sure, it can be done ... but it doesn't make sense to do so because OW supports the story Anet creates. If players want to create their own stories, etc ... they do it around the constraints of the world they are in created by Anet.

You are putting the carriage before the horse here.

If you point out the lack of a story reason for players to fight each other 1v1 in the OW and then, when provided with a possible reason start to argue that it`s not viable because it's not implemented right now, then you invalidate you question for a reason in the first place.

6 minutes ago, Obtena.7952 said:

You don't need 1v1 to 'train' for endgame mobs ... you can do that in the beginner areas against level 1 mobs

Once again, you mistake "ingame lore reason" and "refining the mechanical skills of players". Those are two very different things.

6 minutes ago, Obtena.7952 said:

... Anet even created an actual tutorial for that. It's not a reason to add it, EVEN from the story perspective of 'training'. 

See above. Teaching players mechanical skills and giving a reason for why stuff is happening in-universe are two very different things.

6 minutes ago, Obtena.7952 said:

 

Maybe if RP was more prevalent and this was a feature being asked by RPers ... OK. But it's not. It's simply being asked by the OP to implement for the convenience of dueling. 

True. But, like Is aid several times now, that was never the main point. The point was to adress your argument of a lack of in-universe reasons for two players to fight each other: Something that can be adressed very easily and does not justify the amount of posts wasted on this topic.

[Obtena.7952]

4 minutes ago, Imba.9451 said:

Once again, you mistake "ingame lore reason" and "refining the mechanical skills of players". Those are two very different things.

 

Yes I know that and NEITHER of those are good reason to implement 1v1 duels in OW. There isn't a mistake. OW is there as the stage for Anet's story, not to 'train' people, from either of those perspectives. 

Edited September 4, 2021 by Obtena.7952

[Imba.9451]

16 minutes ago, Obtena.7952 said:

There isn't a mistake.

Yes. Actually several. As evident in the history of your posts.

16 minutes ago, Obtena.7952 said:

OW is there as the stage for Anet's story, not to 'train' people, from either of those perspectives. 

You still mix it up. It's not real training, it just an excuse to have players fight each other. Just like it`s and excuse to have players fight hero-point npc's that are members of the pact. And if Anet says: "Hey, we give you this feature and story wise it's... uhm... Pact members fighting each other as sparring?", then it's a perfectly fine reason. Not good, but acceptable. Still better than the kitten they gave us about waypoints.

Sometimes ingame mechanics are just that: Mechanics. They don't always need explanation. They are just there to add feature or QoL to the game.

[AgentMoore.9453]

It turns out the 1x1 duels were the friends conversations we had along the way.

 

GW2 is a game that separates its games modes, and adding the ability to duel anywhere in the open world would be an attempt to mix PvP with PvE. To better put in perspective why this isn't a great idea, consider people asking for the ability to flag themselves for RP in WvW or PvP maps. Not only would the disruption be enormous, but the responses would all be the same: 'There are already places dedicated to that in the game' 'People would use it to troll' 'It would have a negative impact on my chosen gamemode experience' 'RPers are toxic/the worst' 'I go to PvP/WvW to get away from people like that' and so on.

 

The choices therefore seem pretty easy to me: Either play in the PvP areas (or with the open world methods) that are currently available, or seek a game that has successfully mixed game modes to your satisfaction.

[Obtena.7952]

43 minutes ago, Imba.9451 said:

You still mix it up. It's not real training, it just an excuse to have players fight each other. Just like it`s and excuse to have players fight hero-point npc's that are members of the pact.

No, again, it's not a mix up ... I recognize the differences you are talking about here. In EITHER case, it's not supported by the OW purpose of being the stage for the story Anet creates ... having 1v1 duels has nothing to do with being an 'excuse' to fight hero-point, pact member NPCs because those NPC's don't exist. That makes no sense to implement a feature just to justify the implementation of another feature. Do we need this or not? Does this feature support something in game? In both cases, it's no. 

Edited September 5, 2021 by Obtena.7952

[Imba.9451]

7 minutes ago, Obtena.7952 said:

No, again, it's not a mix up ... I recognize the differences you are talking about here. In EITHER case, it's not supported by the OW purpose of being the stage for the story Anet creates ... having 1v1 duels has nothing to do with being an 'excuse' to fight hero-point, pact member NPCs because those NPC's don't exist.

Funny, when I explored the map several times, I had plenty of NPC's to fight in order to get hero points for map completion.

7 minutes ago, Obtena.7952 said:

That makes no sense to implement a feature just to justify the implementation of another feature. Do we need this or not? Does this feature support something in game? In both cases, it's no. 

You asked for a story reason for this to exist. I explained (several times now), how a reason for this already exists ingame.

[Obtena.7952]

5 minutes ago, Imba.9451 said:

Funny, when I explored the map several times, I had plenty of NPC's to fight in order to get hero points for map completion.

You asked for a story reason for this to exist. I explained (several times now), how a reason for this already exists ingame.

This is not a reason for 1v1 to exist in the game. Fighting NPC's has no relation to dueling players. 

Edited September 5, 2021 by Obtena.7952

[Imba.9451]

31 minutes ago, Obtena.7952 said:

This is not a reason for 1v1 to exist in the game. Fighting NPC's has no relation to dueling players. 

It has, if it's the same in-universe explanation. Because it doesn't matter if it's to players or a player and a NPC are fighting: Both are fictional characters in a fictional world.

Edited September 5, 2021 by Imba.9451

[Epsilon Indi.2031]

1 hour ago, Obtena.7952 said:

This is not a reason for 1v1 to exist in the game. Fighting NPC's has no relation to dueling players. 

Same reason people have their PCs stand around a tavern for hours on end writing graytext at eachother.  People will find a reason to.  There doesn't need to be a lore justification, else what's the lore justification for literally all the flashy crap thrown into the gemstore?

[Obtena.7952]

1 minute ago, Sir Alymer.3406 said:

Same reason people have their PCs stand around a tavern for hours on end writing graytext at eachother.  People will find a reason to.  There doesn't need to be a lore justification, else what's the lore justification for literally all the flashy crap thrown into the gemstore?

I'm not saying there needs to be ... I'm saying there isn't and since there isn't, what other justification would be used to add 1v1 to OW PVE if you consider that OW PVE is their to support the story of the game?

Edited September 5, 2021 by Obtena.7952

[Imba.9451]

 

10 minutes ago, Obtena.7952 said:

I'm not saying there needs to be ...

 

Yes, you did say that this is the argument against such an implementation. Thats the whole reason we even have this discussion.

12 hours ago, Obtena.7952 said:

Reasonable. Personally, I think the argument against this feature is that it's not an implementation that fits in OW (story-wise). I don't see a compelling reason from the POV of the story that would make one player fight another in OW ... so why would Anet implement that?

 

Quote

I'm saying there isn't and since there isn't, what other justification would be used to add 1v1 to OW PVE if you consider that OW PVE is their to support the story of the game?

The same argument that I made several times now, wich you fail to aknowledge.

 

Also, how is that even an argument? You basicyll say "I never said there NEEDS to be a reason for this to be added... except there needs to be a reason for this to be added, else it would make no sense."

Edited September 5, 2021 by Imba.9451

[Mungo Zen.9364]

This thread…..

I don’t see a problem with dueling in any sense. I’ve played other mmo which dueling existed and, I was quite able to ignore it when I wasn’t interested. Which ultimately was the majority of my play time. 
 

when it was interesting for me was friends and guildies teaching each other different mechanics via dueling. I recognize that PvP and PvE split in GW2 would make that limited in usage but it would be another tool for players to help teach each other about the combat system and profession mechanics. 
 

really there is no good reason to include dueling, but then the only good reason not to add dueling is the investment by the developers. 
 

 

[Imba.9451]

6 minutes ago, Mungo Zen.9364 said:

really there is no good reason to include dueling, but then the only good reason not to add dueling is the investment by the developers. 
 

Totally agree. Every other argument in this thread is either weak or a non-argument entirely.

 

[nosleepdemon.1368]

You should be able to, I believe the real reason is actually a technical one if I recall. People claiming to feel "dread" at the mere thought of someone possibly wanting to duel them... Well, they have issues no MMO is going to help sort out and should probably not be listened to. I know I know, how insensitive of me. But honestly, when all it takes to get you bothered is a player approaching you in a game perhaps it's not "toxicity" but your own narcissism causing the problem?