No Weapon Swap and no Normal Burst Skills is kinda alot of restrictions huh?

[Valik Shin.9027]

On 9/18/2021 at 4:07 AM, Nezekan.2671 said:

I am not even gonna take the OP seriously, because willbender and Virtuoso exist. This complaint is invalid and not worthy of consideration. Warrior won the jackpot of elite specs.

So because warrior got an elite spec that looks like it might be good in PvE but don't really seam to address and on the arrive pvp or wow issues and 2 of the best classes in the game got specs that look bad then any complaints are invalid? Get out of here with your kitten 

[Valik Shin.9027]

On 9/18/2021 at 4:10 PM, mortrialus.3062 said:

If it doesn't it's 100% a bug and should go in the bug report thread that'll come with the beta.  Every other class's equivalent to Gunsaber triggers Weapon Swap sigils and traits.  All weapon swap traits like fast hands will apply to Bladesworn swapping into Gunsaber.

On weapon swap[edit]

These sigils activate whenever you weapon swap during combat to a set that includes the sigil; this includes changing elementalist attunements, legend swap, entering death shroud, equipping/stowing engineering kits, as well as Engage/Disengage Photon Forge, or dropping a bundle. There is an internal cooldown of nine seconds.

Must be you don't play warrior. You see warriors work on different rules. If it's gonna hlpe us then we don't get it. This mean Fast Hands and sigil swaps probably don't work with Gunblade 

[Valik Shin.9027]

On 9/18/2021 at 7:23 PM, Kodama.6453 said:

At the start of the PvP match, you will be locked into the weapon set you chose.

It works the same for engineer. We can swap weapons outside of combat, but are locked into our weapon set once the PvP match starts. Bladesworn now gets the same treatment.

Engi has kits. They can basically have 7 weapons if they want 

Edited September 20, 2021 by Valik Shin.9027

[Valik Shin.9027]

On 9/19/2021 at 3:47 AM, Malus.2184 said:

As far as I understand the Dragon Stance is the weapon swap and replaces the normal weapon swap. So you'd have your normal Burst Skill as well as the Dragon Strike as the Burst Skill for Dragon Stance.

 

I can imagine that the other Burst Skills would work off Flow instead of Adrenaline.

 

This is speculation though, at least until the beta event comes around.

You loose you burst as the F1 skill has been replaced 

[Valik Shin.9027]

1 hour ago, Mungrul.9358 said:

Hah, I feel like the discussion around no weapon swap went something like this:

 

ANet A:

"Guys, we need a new espec for warrior, but how do we get away from the fact that any build that doesn't take Discipline is kitten?"

 

ANet B:

"No weapon swap means no need for Discipline! WIN!"

Lol probably right. Guess they forgot about warrior sprint, destructions of the empowered, brawlers recovery, axe master, and burst master

[Kodama.6453]

10 minutes ago, Valik Shin.9027 said:

Engi has kits. They can basically have 7 weapons if they want 

And what does that have to do with what I said?

All I said is that I think this is how it most likely will work. When it comes to skills and weapon swap, classes are treated as "in combat" once a PvP match starts.

This is also the reason why you can't switch out your utility skills after the start of the match. There is no reason for me to believe that bladesworn will work differently, so I assume the class will be locked into the weapon choice in PvP and unable to switch weapons between fights. 

Edited September 20, 2021 by Kodama.6453

[Valik Shin.9027]

46 minutes ago, Kodama.6453 said:

And what does that have to do with what I said?

All I said is that I think this is how it most likely will work. When it comes to skills and weapon swap, classes are treated as "in combat" once a PvP match starts.

This is also the reason why you can't switch out your utility skills after the start of the match. There is no reason for me to believe that bladesworn will work differently, so I assume the class will be locked into the weapon choice in PvP and unable to switch weapons between fights. 

I said it because you made the comparison (perhaps justification) for why they weapon slot is locked 

[Kodama.6453]

7 minutes ago, Valik Shin.9027 said:

I said it because you made the comparison (perhaps justification) for why they weapon slot is locked 

Maybe I didn't get my point across properly. All I wanted to say is: this is how it works mechanically for all classes (skills are locked when the match starts), so I would assume that it is the same for bladesworn and the weapon is locked then, since I don't think that they will make a special exception for the spec.

[Valik Shin.9027]

30 minutes ago, Kodama.6453 said:

Maybe I didn't get my point across properly. All I wanted to say is: this is how it works mechanically for all classes (skills are locked when the match starts), so I would assume that it is the same for bladesworn and the weapon is locked then, since I don't think that they will make a special exception for the spec.

But they aren't really making and exceptions. These aren't utility skills we're talking about these are weapons. The 2 classes that have locked weapon slot are ele and engi. Engi has kits which are basically weapons. Ele have attunements which are basicly weapon swaps. Guardian got new skills with their books and didn't have weapon slots locked. Why should warrior get less than these other classes? We are already sacrificing our burst skills for the gunblade. Now we have to sacrifice our weapon swap too? 

Edited September 20, 2021 by Valik Shin.9027

[rdigeri.7935]

3 hours ago, Mungrul.9358 said:

Hah, I feel like the discussion around no weapon swap went something like this:

 

ANet A:

"Guys, we need a new espec for warrior, but how do we get away from the fact that any build that doesn't take Discipline is kitten?"

 

ANet B:

"No weapon swap means no need for Discipline! WIN!"

 

F1 has a cd of 10 seconds tho when leaving gunsaber, and it is still affected by fast hands. I wonder if it's a cooldown you can shorten with your master trait or not.

 

(That one time Cal used Dragon Trigger with cooldowns enabled, F1 also went on cooldown, which i hope is not intended)

 

We will see how well the spec fares without discipline, but after noticing these details i have less confidence in it.

Still looks like a very fun spec to me.

[Kodama.6453]

29 minutes ago, Valik Shin.9027 said:

But they aren't really making and exceptions. These aren't utility skills we're talking about these are weapons. The 2 classes that have locked weapon slot are ele and engi. Engi has kits which are basically weapons. Ele have attunements which are basicly weapon swaps. Guardian got new skills with their books and didn't have weapon slots locked. Why should warrior get less than these other classes? We are already sacrificing our burst skills for the gunblade. Now we have to sacrifice our weapon swap too? 

Well, it seems so, yes. It got explicitly mentioned that warrior will give up in combat swap for the elite spec mechanic. And as mentioned, the other classes without in combat swap (engineer and elementalist) stop being able to swap weapons once a PvP match starts.

Bladesworn has no in combat weapon swap, just like engineer and elementalist. So if they get to swap weapons between fights in PvP, it would be a special exception for bladesworn.

I get it, you don't like that weapon swap is traded for the gunsabre (on top of burst skills), but I am pretty sure this is exactly how it will work...

[Valik Shin.9027]

32 minutes ago, rdigeri.7935 said:

 

F1 has a cd of 10 seconds tho when leaving gunsaber, and it is still affected by fast hands. I wonder if it's a cooldown you can shorten with your master trait or not.

 

(That one time Cal used Dragon Trigger with cooldowns enabled, F1 also went on cooldown, which i hope is not intended)

 

We will see how well the spec fares without discipline, but after noticing these details i have less confidence in it.

Still looks like a very fun spec to me.

Discipline still has warrior sprint, brawlers recovery, and burst master. Unless they make the gunblade not a weapon swap, not be effected by burst traits and no a melee weapon then your still taking Discipline. If they do all that people would roit 

[ASP.8093]

4 minutes ago, Valik Shin.9027 said:

Discipline still has warrior sprint, brawlers recovery, and burst master. Unless they make the gunblade not a weapon swap, not be effected by burst traits and no a melee weapon then your still taking Discipline. If they do all that people would roit 

Gunsaber F1 description from the wiki, presumably extracted from the video: "Changes to your weapon recharge rate affect this skill."

[Peacekid.1463]

man we havent played bladesworn yet all i see are full of complains lol

[Valik Shin.9027]

12 minutes ago, Peacekid.1463 said:

man we havent played bladesworn yet all i see are full of complains lol

Because we want our weapon swaps and burst skills

[Kodama.6453]

1 minute ago, Valik Shin.9027 said:

Because we want our weapon swaps and burst skills

Weapon swaps and burst skills both... what is supposed to be the trade off for the gunsaber then?

[Peacekid.1463]

so if thats the problem ur not gona play?

[Red Haired Savage.5430]

5 minutes ago, Peacekid.1463 said:

man we havent played bladesworn yet all i see are full of complains lol

Because some of us are worried about the viability of the class and not the big number memes that CMC showed off to wow us. If they had to lead off with meme numbers then to us it feels like they're trying to hide how bad the class is. To me I'm guessing the elite spec is designed for raids/strikes doing a DPS roll and they're trying to justify not being stuck taking banners. Outside of that I don't see much viability in other content because you might be dead before you can do your burst which they said in competitive mode you'd be doing less damage, I don't remember hearing that it'd charge faster. Tomorrow will tell us a lot more.

[Peacekid.1463]

i hope u know that these are not yet final...give them the chance to do what they need to do im sure there not that dumb

[Lan Deathrider.5910]

3 minutes ago, Kodama.6453 said:

Weapon swaps and burst skills both... what is supposed to be the trade off for the gunsaber then?

*But you have to trade a traitline* cough  excuse me, just reiterating what some eles have said.

TBH though, EITHER weapon swap OR core Bursts would have been sufficient. They really are imposing too many tradeoffs on warrior especs relative to other profession especs.

 

Spellbreaker is kind of the exception there, but that is part of why it functions better than Berserker.

[Kodama.6453]

12 minutes ago, Lan Deathrider.5910 said:

*But you have to trade a traitline* cough  excuse me, just reiterating what some eles have said.

TBH though, EITHER weapon swap OR core Bursts would have been sufficient. They really are imposing too many tradeoffs on warrior especs relative to other profession especs.

 

Spellbreaker is kind of the exception there, but that is part of why it functions better than Berserker.

Oh boy, don't get me started on elementalist trade offs. The system is extremely awkward with them. Not only is tempest for years already the only elite spec in the game which still doesn't have a trade off, but now they are receiving another elite spec which apparently has no trade off anywhere?

I don't get what's going on, is anet going to change elementalist up in the near future giving them something to trade for elite specs? Or is the class just generally allowed to ignore the trade off system? Some clarification would be MUCH appreciated....

About bladesworn, yeah, I agree that the trade offs seem excessive. I gotta admit, tho, that 476k damage skill looks like it would warrant some really hefty trade offs. I actually fear that this spec might push all the other dps elite specs out of the meta. That damage potential seems unreal and might end up giving warrior such a high dps compared to others that groups will refuse to take other damage dealers except bladesworn.

[Lan Deathrider.5910]

1 minute ago, Kodama.6453 said:

Oh boy, don't get me started on elementalist trade offs. The system is extremely awkward with them. Not only is tempest for years already the only elite spec in the game which still doesn't have a trade off, but now they are receiving another elite spec which apparently has no trade off anywhere?

I don't get what's going on, is anet going to change elementalist up in the near future giving them something to trade for elite specs? Or is the class just generally allowed to ignore the trade off system? Some clarification would be MUCH appreciated....

About bladesworn, yeah, I agree that the trade offs seem excessive. I gotta admit, tho, that 476k damage skill looks like it would warrant some really hefty trade offs. I actually fear that this spec might push all the other dps elite specs out of the meta. That damage potential seems unreal and might end up giving warrior such a high dps compared to others that groups will refuse to take other damage dealers except bladesworn.

Yeah, the tradeoffs are not equitably distributed at all.

Well, lose of core burst OR weapon swap would indeed be a steep trade off no?

We'll have to see what the actual benchmarks are. I suspect that people will figure out what the optimal flow rate combos are and would require dropping banners to achieve.

THAT makes me happy. You'd lose the warrior contributing to breakbar damage though, they'll be too busy charging their lazer.

[rdigeri.7935]

17 minutes ago, Lan Deathrider.5910 said:

Yeah, the tradeoffs are not equitably distributed at all.

Well, lose of core burst OR weapon swap would indeed be a steep trade off no?

We'll have to see what the actual benchmarks are. I suspect that people will figure out what the optimal flow rate combos are and would require dropping banners to achieve.

THAT makes me happy. You'd lose the warrior contributing to breakbar damage though, they'll be too busy charging their lazer.

 

That laser has 5sec stun if taking the middle grandmaster trait, i suppose that's not a bad contribution

[Lan Deathrider.5910]

9 minutes ago, rdigeri.7935 said:

 

That laser has 5sec stun if taking the middle grandmaster trait, i suppose that's not a bad contribution

Yeah, but then you'll have to rebuild the charges for the exposed debuff and may miss it.

 

Edit: Miss the exposed debuff on the next DS that is.

Edited September 20, 2021 by Lan Deathrider.5910

[rdigeri.7935]

45 minutes ago, Lan Deathrider.5910 said:

Yeah, but then you'll have to rebuild the charges for the exposed debuff and may miss it.

 

Edit: Miss the exposed debuff on the next DS that is.

 

Yeah, you might have to pick between the two or be really fast