Bladesworn sworn to PVE?

[Verdict is Vengence.6912]

Maybe Bladesworn is meant to be a PVE spec 🤔

Competitive isn't as popular as PVE is. Perhaps warrior was always meant to be meh at pvp and use its full potential only in PVE. The devs said it themselves, they like where warrior is at the moment. Perhaps warrior was always meant to be sub par at pvp and wvw 😕

[DanAlcedo.3281]

We don't need another PvE Spec. 

Core, Zerk and even SpB work fine here. 

For PvP and WvW, Warrior simply needs buffs and reworks. 

 

What pisses me off is that classes like Warrior and Ele had blatant design and balance problems for years now. 

And nothing was done about it. 

So CLEARLY the idea must be that Anet would help them with the EoD specs...... 

That didn't happen. 

 

Now I wait for Rangers E spec. And dear lord almighty if this one sucks butt too in WvW, im gonna scream. 

[Vancho.8750]

The problem here is that Berserker already exists, Bladesworn doesn't fill any new niches. 
Beserker has simpler and just way better rotation for PVE, simpler DPS rotation means you have more time to think about mechanics and also ease of access which is apparently big issue with Arenanet. I believe that anyone can pick up the Axe/Axe build and do Ok with it in instanced content from the get go , what is all about you press your burst off cd with axe you press buttons to load adrenaline from hits rinse and repeat. I think they tried to do the same with Daring Dragon trait on bladesworn, but WHY??? it is already in the game, changing the aesthetic and not the gameplay is pointless to me.
I see no new purpose for Bladesworn in PVE it just does damage.  

Edited September 22, 2021 by Vancho.8750

[Verdict is Vengence.6912]

1 hour ago, DanAlcedo.3281 said:

We don't need another PvE Spec. 

Core, Zerk and even SpB work fine here. 

For PvP and WvW, Warrior simply needs buffs and reworks. 

 

What pisses me off is that classes like Warrior and Ele had blatant design and balance problems for years now. 

And nothing was done about it. 

So CLEARLY the idea must be that Anet would help them with the EoD specs...... 

That didn't happen. 

 

Now I wait for Rangers E spec. And dear lord almighty if this one sucks butt too in WvW, im gonna scream. 

Oh, of course I know this. Every Warrior main knows we don't need more PVE options. But does Anet want Warrior to be great at competitive modes? No, I don't think they do. I'm guessing they want Warrior to remain so-so and okay at WvW and PVP.

Look at how they've been treating Warrior so far. It's clear that they want Warrior to be a simple and mediocre class that's easy to learn and play. But they also don't want that easy to learn playstyle rewarded too much. You can see this in how they've nerfed and reworked Warrior unnecessarily. This is all by their design.

I think it's time to come to grips with reality for us Warrior mains. We are not meant to have S-tier specs. We aren't going to rule PVP or WvW. Warrior is a B rated class and that's how its going to be.

You have the right idea bout it. If somebody doesn't like rolling a B rated class, reroll into another class.

[DanAlcedo.3281]

3 minutes ago, Verdict is Vengence.6912 said:

Oh, of course I know this. Every Warrior main knows we don't need more PVE options. But does Anet want Warrior to be great at competitive modes? No, I don't think they do. I'm guessing they want Warrior to remain so-so and okay at WvW and PVP.

Look at how they've been treating Warrior so far. It's clear that they want Warrior to be a simple and mediocre class that's easy to learn and play. But they also don't want that easy to learn playstyle rewarded too much. You can see this in how they've nerfed and reworked Warrior unnecessarily. This is all by their design.

I think it's time to come to grips with reality for us Warrior mains. We are not meant to have S-tier specs. We aren't going to rule PVP or WvW. Warrior is a B rated class and that's how its going to be.

You have the right idea bout it. If somebody doesn't like rolling a B rated class, reroll into another class.

Nostalgia Inc. 

I remember in Core WvW when we had 30man raids and often about 18 of them were warriors. It worked and people had fun. 

Then the Trait system rework happened + Stab change and warrior became complete useless. Soooooo many Warrior players quit after this. 

Then Hot happened with Zerk being at most a one trick gimmick build in WvW. 

Then PoF came and Warrior got its awesome job as a bubble bot. 😑

Then they removed our dmg with the Feb 2020 patch. 

And now we get SB which is a one trick gimmick build that's even worse then Zerk. 

 

Whatever. I just play Firebrand for a few more years. 🙃

[felix.2386]

3 hours ago, Verdict is Vengence.6912 said:

Maybe Bladesworn is meant to be a PVE spec 🤔

Competitive isn't as popular as PVE is. Perhaps warrior was always meant to be meh at pvp and use its full potential only in PVE. The devs said it themselves, they like where warrior is at the moment. Perhaps warrior was always meant to be sub par at pvp and wvw 😕

in pve it isnt fun to play either..it is only good in raid number, that's it..

the spec is clunky af, the dps rotation is clunky af, the game play is garbage.

in open world it is garbage, in dungeon it is garbage.

 

may as well just make a stick with only one skill and make it 50k dps it will be more fun to play.

[Mesket.5728]

I'm honestly puzzled on why they made this espec as it is. I was expecting something on the line of a melee staff warrior with a strong support build that would sinergize with shouts or banners and a proper fix to Berserker spec to be the pve dps spec either power or condi; leaving SB the most used in pvp. But his? oh boy, now we are banner slave in pve in whatever we choose to spec and still have no strong support build (or any other role than dps bannerslave). I'm not saying this was salt to the wound but it was no band aid either.

[Lan Deathrider.5910]

I hate to be that guy, but I can't test in game atm. But, can you even use Gunsaber and Dragon Trigger underwater?

Edited September 22, 2021 by Lan Deathrider.5910

[Kodama.6453]

42 minutes ago, Lan Deathrider.5910 said:

I hate to be that guy, but I can't test in game atm. But, can you even use Gunsaber and Dragon Trigger underwater?

Just tested it, the big majority of stuff from bladesworn works underwater. Gunsaber and dragon trigger are both usable there. The only things which you can't use are: electric fence and bulletproof barrier.

[Lan Deathrider.5910]

1 minute ago, Kodama.6453 said:

Just tested it, the big majority of stuff from bladesworn works underwater. Gunsaber and dragon trigger are both usable there. The only things which you can't use are: electric fence and bulletproof barrier.

Thanks mate. Had a sudden fear that Anet forgot UW combat when they made it.

[Kodama.6453]

3 minutes ago, Lan Deathrider.5910 said:

Thanks mate. Had a sudden fear that Anet forgot UW combat when they made it.

Small side note: dragonspike mine uses the same mine model like on land. Would be a nice flavour thing to get an adjusted underwater mine for this skill like they did for all the engineer mines.

[RiyazGuerra.9203]

Tested it yesterday.  Flow gain necessitates getting all the adrenaline increasing traits you can, which just narrows the build possibilities and ends up functioning just like regular adrenaline, so what was the point?

 

Gameplay is horribly unintuitive and not fun.   The pistol range is an utter joke.  Why the 260 range AND pushback???  As a warrior, with a melee weapon equipped in your mainhand, you wanted pistol to add dps as you close the gap to deliver the primary dps from your mainhand, NOT push you back keeping you further away from the target.  If I wanted to get away from the target it would be more effective if I just run away.

 

I'm very disappointed to be honest.  I really wanted to like the new espec.  Right now, if you scrapped gunsaber altogether, let us keep weapon swap, and just made the offhand pistol 600 range,  skill 4 a basic shot with low cooldown, skill 5 some kind of sticky bomb, it would be more fun and useful for warrior across all game types.

[Obtena.7952]

People need to keep in mind that especs aren't built for some specific  game mode. They are built around a theme, so whether they 'work' for game mode X or Y isn't the right way to think about them. 

That being said, I think the Dragon Trigger is fine enough as a mechanic, but I have lots of issue with the actual Dragon Trigger skills. 

1. Redundant - I guess Anet thought offering three different Dragonslash skills was useful. I don't see it. Trading damage for positioning is a weak concept, ESPECIALLY if you have THREE (???) charges of blink. I don't see the value in Dragon Slash 2 or 3 if this blink exists. 

2. Skills 4 and 5 ... like, why? Unless I'm missing something, you charge your jade bullets and hit the Dragon Slash. WTH does blink or a 2 second Aegis do for you, ESPECIALLY with charges? Like, what IS this? I'm shaking my head here at the tiny range of usefulness these two skills have. Seems like they were added as ways for players to proc Master Traits ... which is a terrible way to use them. 

I just can't get over the opportunity Anet has lost here to offer 5 attacks with completely different side effects that could make up for the restrictions of the class and offer players some better choices. For example:

My Dragon Trigger would look something like this:

1. Just a big ole single target ranged attack (so position doesn't matter)
2. PBAOE ranged attack applying cripple giving might for each target hit
3. Single target Melee attack with knockback
4. Single target ranged attack giving stability or swiftness
5. Single target DOT attack applying Vulnerability per tick

Edited September 22, 2021 by Obtena.7952

[Verdict is Vengence.6912]

5 hours ago, Obtena.7952 said:

People need to keep in mind that especs aren't built for some specific  game mode. They are built around a theme, so whether they 'work' for game mode X or Y isn't the right way to think about them. 

You're right. The reason why adrenaline decays on Warrior was a thematic choice and why Warrior was never able to barf up boons was because thematically it was designed to be a "non-magical" class.

Where theme ends and balance begins is in our damage nerfs. Our competitive damage is poo poo right now. So many unnecessary changes have made Warrior stink in competitive. This was clearly not a design around theme. It was a choice on how Warrior played.

This is how I know Bladesworn is where it's supposed to be design wise. I know this because Bladesworn plays like every Warrior spec: mediocre. While I was playing around in WvW as Bladesworn, I realized it was just as mediocre as every other Warrior spec, it actually fits right in. Bladesworn will remain the same when EoD officially comes out and it'll be a B rated spec. That's because Warrior is a B rated class and Anet likes it that way.

And I'm not hating nor am I depressed. I realized it's just the way things are 😕. It's reality.

[Obtena.7952]

17 minutes ago, Verdict is Vengence.6912 said:

You're right. The reason why adrenaline decays on Warrior was a thematic choice and why Warrior was never able to barf up boons was because thematically it was designed to be a "non-magical" class.

Where theme ends and balance begins is in our damage nerfs. Our competitive damage is poo poo right now. So many unnecessary changes have made Warrior stink in competitive. This was clearly not a design around theme. It was a choice on how Warrior played.

This is how I know Bladesworn is where it's supposed to be design wise. I know this because Bladesworn plays like every Warrior spec: mediocre. While I was playing around in WvW as Bladesworn, I realized it was just as mediocre as every other Warrior spec, it actually fits right in. Bladesworn will remain the same when EoD officially comes out and it'll be a B rated spec. That's because Warrior is a B rated class and Anet likes it that way.

And I'm not hating nor am I depressed. I realized it's just the way things are 😕. It's reality.

OK ... but I'm not arguing with you about how competitive damage is related more to performance than theme ... because I would agree with that. 

I'm not sure what point you are making that you know where Bladestorm is supposed to be design wise. I mean, that's pretty obvious from ... the design Anet has revealed. Whether that design is intended to be good for whatever game mode you want to select is simply not a sensible question because we have no reason to believe Anet designs any espec because of game mode X or Y. 

[Verdict is Vengence.6912]

Just now, Obtena.7952 said:

OK ... but I'm not arguing with you about how competitive damage is related more to performance than theme ... because I would agree with that. 

I'm not sure what point you are making that you know where Bladestorm is supposed to be design wise. I mean, that's pretty obvious from ... the design Anet has revealed. Whether that design is intended to be good for whatever game mode you want to select is simply not a sensible question because we have no reason to believe Anet designs any espec because of game mode X or Y. 

No, no, no. I am not arguing at all. We are not at an impasse. I was not trying to seem argumentative at all. Sorry if it came off like that. I was merely making a point about design and balance. There isn't a thing between us lol.

I was only fleshing out what you said about theme and adding on to it about what path Anet is taking Warrior through in terms of theme, balance and design.

I honestly don't see how you perceived it as an argument.

[Mesket.5728]

3 hours ago, Verdict is Vengence.6912 said:

You're right. The reason why adrenaline decays on Warrior was a thematic choice and why Warrior was never able to barf up boons was because thematically it was designed to be a "non-magical" class.

 

that's old school... we are now 2/4 magical specs. Next time we'll get focus main hand with another brilliant idea.- (actually, it is very confusing,... cause bladesworn is technological weapon but the bullets are magical... whatever, not like this spec make sense in any other way)-

Edited September 23, 2021 by Mesket.5728

[Apolo.5942]

9 hours ago, Obtena.7952 said:

People need to keep in mind that especs aren't built for some specific  game mode. They are built around a theme, so whether they 'work' for game mode X or Y isn't the right way to think about them. 

May be it should be the other way around and developers listen to what customers want?.

[Obtena.7952]

12 minutes ago, Apolo.5942 said:

May be it should be the other way around and developers listen to what customers want?.

Maybe, but it's not ... and the existence of the game for 9 years is a testament to Anet listening to what customer want so ... yeah

[Apolo.5942]

Just now, Obtena.7952 said:

Maybe, but it's not ... and the existence of the game for 9 years is a testament to Anet listening to what customer want so ... yeah

Might want to check those numbers my dude, they are closer to shutting down than becoming the "wow killer" which was their original aim.

[Obtena.7952]

3 minutes ago, Apolo.5942 said:

Might want to check those numbers my dude, they are closer to shutting down than becoming the "wow killer" which was their original aim.

That's all conjecture. I mean, what 'numbers' are you suggesting I check here? 

Here is a number ... 9 ... the number of years the game existed and still being developed. That's not because Anet ignores customers. I know players feel clever when they cite 'numbers' to predict the game is a failure because Anet doesn't do what they want and is approaching it's immediate doom ... but clever doesn't mean true. 

Edited September 23, 2021 by Obtena.7952

[Apolo.5942]

Just now, Obtena.7952 said:

That's all conjecture. I mean, what 'numbers' are you suggesting I check here? 

How about Steam numbers? or what you did not feel that great influx of players when they finally jumped on the most used digital distribution platform on the planet? dont worry, me neither wonder why that might be....

[Obtena.7952]

3 minutes ago, Apolo.5942 said:

How about Steam numbers? or what you did not feel that great influx of players when they finally jumped on the most used digital distribution platform on the planet? dont worry, me neither wonder why that might be....

'Steam numbers' are going to tell me the game is approaching it's end because Anet doesn't do what you want? How does that work? How does a person resolve this impending game end based on 'Steam numbers' with what is real about the game still being here and being developed?

Edited September 23, 2021 by Obtena.7952

[Apolo.5942]

Just now, Obtena.7952 said:

'Steam numbers' are going to tell me the game is approaching it's end because Anet doesn't do what you want? How does that work?

No... Its a approaching its end because it does not do what THE CONSUMER BASE wants, which was kind of the point of this argument...

[Obtena.7952]

8 minutes ago, Apolo.5942 said:

No... Its a approaching its end because it does not do what THE CONSUMER BASE wants, which was kind of the point of this argument...

That doesn't make sense because if Anet doesn't do what the consumer base wanted, it wouldn't be here for 9 years and still being developed. In fact, Anet has done LOTS of things the consumer base didn't want ... and it's still here, so what makes you think THIS something that maybe the consumer base didn't want will be the thing that breaks that camel back?

Either way, the fearmongering doesn't make sense ... Seems to me whether things exist that consumer base does or doesn't want ... the game continues to met Anet's criteria for being a viable business. That tells me ... it's more likely they ARE doing more things players want than things players do not. 

The bottomline here is that especs are based on a theme. What game mode that espec is best suited is just a consequence of the theme design; any espec is unlikely to be engineered specifically by Anet to be a THIS or THAT for game mode X or Y. Maybe you think that should change? Certainly not based on the game's business performance. 

Edited September 23, 2021 by Obtena.7952