Why Gunsaber?

[Smoosh.2718]

On 10/26/2021 at 10:30 PM, DemonCrypto.6792 said:

you forgot gunhammer

Ngl, gun hammer actually sounds quite fun. Every slam down leaves a massive explosion causing smoke fields in its wake.... which gives the warrior something it couldnt do stealth! (would be rather dangerous I do say... then again So does an engineer with a pet (actually quite jelly of that mech))
 

[DemonCrypto.6792]

the only thing that would fix this gunsaber now , would be to give more kits.
War is the class of many weapon (thats the pure core of it), so give us options kits.
By respecting the heart of the class weshould open the gameplay of bladesworn to variety and variation of build.

Please anet (it will be hard) read this and give us Many gun-weapon fusion. We need more than one to breath life into this e-spec.

[Lan Deathrider.5910]

2 hours ago, DemonCrypto.6792 said:

the only thing that would fix this gunsaber now , would be to give more kits.
War is the class of many weapon (thats the pure core of it), so give us options kits.
By respecting the heart of the class weshould open the gameplay of bladesworn to variety and variation of build.

Please anet (it will be hard) read this and give us Many gun-weapon fusion. We need more than one to breath life into this e-spec.

Yeah, I really am surprised that they did not go all in on kits since they took weapon swap away.

[Vancho.8750]

6 hours ago, Lan Deathrider.5910 said:

Yeah, I really am surprised that they did not go all in on kits since they took weapon swap away.

It would have been cool if it followed the design they have been going with the other specs, Ranged, Melee or Support kit you pick with the first row of traits like Engi can pick skills for the Golem. So you get a gunSpear for support, some fancy smansy explosives crossbow or Darksouls greatbow for ranged or the gunsabre for melee and tada options. 
And I'm quite certain they can do it in time with all the copy pasted skills they added to all specs, them shrouds on thief and necro look suspiciously similar. 

[Lan Deathrider.5910]

1 hour ago, Vancho.8750 said:

It would have been cool if it followed the design they have been going with the other specs, Ranged, Melee or Support kit you pick with the first row of traits like Engi can pick skills for the Golem. So you get a gunSpear for support, some fancy smansy explosives crossbow or Darksouls greatbow for ranged or the gunsabre for melee and tada options. 
And I'm quite certain they can do it in time with all the copy pasted skills they added to all specs, them shrouds on thief and necro look suspiciously similar. 

They just need to give weapon swap back, make DT available with any weapon, move Pistol to MH, and increase the damage on Dragon Slash. It would be a serviceable spec then.

After that they can buff Berserker Condi through the roof and push it into the main condi spec.

[Kodama.6453]

On 10/29/2021 at 9:11 PM, Lan Deathrider.5910 said:

They just need to give weapon swap back, make DT available with any weapon, move Pistol to MH, and increase the damage on Dragon Slash. It would be a serviceable spec then.

If they give back weapon swap, then they won't buff the damage of dragon slash, they would have to nerf the hell out of it in PvE instead. Bladesworn as is already has 50+k dps benchmarks.

And anet surely won't make major reworks to weapons like changing an offhand weapon into a mainhand at this point. Besides, bladesworn clearly is intended as a melee spec first and foremost, so the suggestion of many people to make pistol a ranged mainhand weapon doesn't make sense in the first place, since it doesn't fit the playstyle of the spec.

[Lan Deathrider.5910]

36 minutes ago, Kodama.6453 said:

If they give back weapon swap, then they won't buff the damage of dragon slash, they would have to nerf the hell out of it in PvE instead. Bladesworn as is already has 50+k dps benchmarks.

The PvE numbers can be whatever the hell Anet wants them to be, but they need to be buffed in competitive. They are way too low for the risk involved.

36 minutes ago, Kodama.6453 said:

And anet surely won't make major reworks to weapons like changing an offhand weapon into a mainhand at this point. Besides, bladesworn clearly is intended as a melee spec first and foremost, so the suggestion of many people to make pistol a ranged mainhand weapon doesn't make sense in the first place, since it doesn't fit the playstyle of the spec.

It's the Warrior main feedback, and has been consistent. And hey, if Gyros could get reworked like they were then so can things like swapping Pistol to the MH for Bladesworn and giving it a generic AA and extra range on the other two skills. Honestly that would probably be LESS work than the gyro rework.

[Kodama.6453]

4 minutes ago, Lan Deathrider.5910 said:

The PvE numbers can be whatever the hell Anet wants them to be, but they need to be buffed in competitive. They are way too low for the risk involved.

It's the Warrior main feedback, and has been consistent. And hey, if Gyros could get reworked like they were then so can things like swapping Pistol to the MH for Bladesworn and giving it a generic AA and extra range on the other two skills. Honestly that would probably be LESS work than the gyro rework.

Ah,  thought you meant this rework to happen before the release of EoD and not in the following years.

Still think that the pistol feedback is weird. As said, bladesworn is a melee spec and will keep being one in the future most likely. Asking for a ranged pistol for this spec doesn't make much sense because of this, it makes more sense to hope for another elite spec for warrior in the future to be ranged focused to add a new ranged weapon choice instead, since these designs would then at least compliment each other.

Gyros were reworked into wells but the general functionality stayed the same. They are pbAoE buffs for the scrapper and their team, just more reliably so now. They still compliment the intended gameplay for scrapper.

[Lan Deathrider.5910]

8 minutes ago, Kodama.6453 said:

Ah,  thought you meant this rework to happen before the release of EoD and not in the following years.

Oh no, I mean before the release. They've received an overwhelming amount of the exact same feedback, so they know exactly what needs to be changed.

8 minutes ago, Kodama.6453 said:

Still think that the pistol feedback is weird. As said, bladesworn is a melee spec and will keep being one in the future most likely. Asking for a ranged pistol for this spec doesn't make much sense because of this, it makes more sense to hope for another elite spec for warrior in the future to be ranged focused to add a new ranged weapon choice instead, since these designs would then at least compliment each other.

You've been corrected on this false assumption previously by other people. There is as many ranged skills in the kit as there are melee skills, If anything it is a mixed range spec, which having a Ranged MH would complement more than yet another melee OH.

8 minutes ago, Kodama.6453 said:

Gyros were reworked into wells but the general functionality stayed the same. They are pbAoE buffs for the scrapper and their team, just more reliably so now. They still compliment the intended gameplay for scrapper.

And a Ranged MH pistol would complement the Bladesworn gameplay more than a melee OH pistol.

[Kodama.6453]

37 minutes ago, Lan Deathrider.5910 said:

Oh no, I mean before the release. They've received an overwhelming amount of the exact same feedback, so they know exactly what needs to be changed.

But my point has been that I don't think that major changes like reworking the weapon from an offhand melee one to a mainhand ranged version will happen before the release of EoD.

In the time following, sure, everything goes. But requesting them to basically design the weapon for bladesworn completely anew is a bit much, especially since we have to consider that Anet has to work on 8 other elite specs as well and it's not like these are in less need of attention... people pointed out major flaws for every single of these elite specs, they have to work on alot of stuff, even if we just consider changes which are needed to make specs work mechanically (like, not performance wise, but just ensuring that an elite spec is not actually shutting down stuff it shouldn't because of oversights from the designers).

Pistol might not work as people wanted it to, but it at least works and actually even has synergy with the spec by giving a spammable ammunition skill for the traits. I don't see much wrong with pistol besides people preferring a ranged weapon...

37 minutes ago, Lan Deathrider.5910 said:

You've been corrected on this false assumption previously by other people. There is as many ranged skills in the kit as there are melee skills, If anything it is a mixed range spec, which having a Ranged MH would complement more than yet another melee OH.

That the spec has some skills which can hit at range doesn't really make it mixed range.

Bladesworn is significantly more effective in close combat and that is a deliberate design choice from anet. Even some of the ranged abilities people point out in that conversation, while being able to hit enemies from range, are still hitting even harder in melee, rewarding you for staying close to your enemy.

One more point: pistol as an offhand also works well with bladesworn in my opinion, because it gives warriors an offhand weapon with ammunition skills. Correct me if I am wrong, but I don't think there is a warrior offhand weapon with this mechanic for further synergy with the ammunition traits. Mainhand already has ammunition skills thanks to axe 3.

Which is most likely the reason why axe/pistol has also been the default setup for bladesworn, because both weapons give this ammunition synergy.

 

Edited November 2, 2021 by Kodama.6453

[Mushin.6789]

They could of given warriors staff and added some harlbard and spear skins.

[Lan Deathrider.5910]

2 hours ago, Mushin.6789 said:

They could of given warriors staff and added some harlbard and spear skins.

They could have done dual pistols and F1-F5 party wide adrenaline based AoE buffs, but here we are.

[Logos.3042]

On 10/29/2021 at 1:24 AM, DemonCrypto.6792 said:

the only thing that would fix this gunsaber now , would be to give more kits.
War is the class of many weapon (thats the pure core of it), so give us options kits.
By respecting the heart of the class weshould open the gameplay of bladesworn to variety and variation of build.

Please anet (it will be hard) read this and give us Many gun-weapon fusion. We need more than one to breath life into this e-spec.

Anet, at the least give us a MH pistol too... what is supposed to go with OH pistol?  So lame...

[Kodama.6453]

2 hours ago, Logos.3042 said:

Anet, at the least give us a MH pistol too... what is supposed to go with OH pistol?  So lame...

Axe.

There is a reason axe/pistol was the default set for beta testing. Offhand pistol is melee, so pairing it with a melee mainhand makes sense. Both weapons provide ammunition skills to trigger the ammunition traits in bladesworn.

I think these 2 weapons combo quite well.

[Smoosh.2718]

10 hours ago, Kodama.6453 said:

Axe.

There is a reason axe/pistol was the default set for beta testing. Offhand pistol is melee, so pairing it with a melee mainhand makes sense. Both weapons provide ammunition skills to trigger the ammunition traits in bladesworn.

I think these 2 weapons combo quite well.

I actually found this the most jarring combination, Pistol fights against every single melee weapon warrior has, you have a pushback on pistol 5 putting you out of melee range every time you use it. The weapon combos great... with itself but not any of the other warrior weapons due to this strange range and pushback system.

If the weapon had range it could work, yet it doesnt.

 

Honestly the weapon would be more suited to being mainhand filling in the missing role for warrior, the weapon type warrior has been lacking for years. There are more weapons that work with a mainhand pistol than there are that work with an offhand pistol.

Pistol is going up against Shield for PvP, Warhorn for WvW and Axe for PvE, there is little chance that this weapon will ever see any play if it stays in the offhand.

"But my point has been that I don't think that major changes like reworking the weapon from an offhand melee one to a mainhand ranged version will happen before the release of EoD. "  - But they can make changes like this within the time, lets face it most of the weapon skills are a copy and paste of animations from other specs, so there is little dev time there, the weapon damage numbers can be splashed together within an hour, designing a new logo for the weapon skills could take up to 1 day to perfect, then the balance tweeks to create the X skills to the desired levels could be done throughout the time leading up to the release. To say its impossible is just to give an excuse to let the weapon stay in a spot almost on the levels of warrior mace, a seriously neglected weapon.

These specs are meant to be a selling point of the expansion, yet keeping the weapon on offhand with terrible skills which do not function well with the core spec, or feel jarring to use (240 range is seriously janky to work with when you're used to 900 range or 130 range) will effect players want/drive to play the spec. Warrior is lacking its edge within some game modes of Gw2, look at the MAT's as a good example of this, or the simple fact that warrior has been degraded to bubble bot for WvW or even a Banner Blave for PvE.

I fully believe Anet has the control to change the offhand to mainhand, this is massively required for the sepc to work with itself rather than constantly fight itself. Elite specs usually excited me in Gw2, but this one in its current state does not, which is a kitten shame as ive spent 90% of my time on warrior.

[Mushin.6789]

I usually play warrior in almost all mmos, and my first character was a warrior in this game. But they really made the warrior difficult to play.  My mind was blown when the warrior would have skills that required it to stay still in a game that requires constant movement. They still continue this with the new elite.  It feels like they punish you for playing this class, which is what made me stop playing the first time.   

[Obtena.7952]

On 11/3/2021 at 1:12 PM, Smoosh.2718 said:

I actually found this the most jarring combination, Pistol fights against every single melee weapon warrior has, you have a pushback on pistol 5 putting you out of melee range every time you use it. The weapon combos great... with itself but not any of the other warrior weapons due to this strange range and pushback system.

If the weapon had range it could work, yet it doesnt.

That's why they put a 'quick step forward' on pistol 4 with 3 ammo. If anything, THAT'S the thing that makes the OH pistol work with the MH weapons. I believe it also counts as a movement skill, so it works well with Warrior Sprint, Brave Strider and Swift as the Wind. In fact, a skill like that really provides a significant improvement to a melee-heavy class in competitive modes.

The point here is that while pistol is a ranged weapon, it still works well with the melee MH weapons.

Edited November 4, 2021 by Obtena.7952

[Grand Marshal.4098]

56 minutes ago, Obtena.7952 said:

That's why they put a 'quick step forward' on pistol 4 with 3 ammo. If anything, THAT'S the thing that makes the OH pistol work with the MH weapons. I believe it also counts as a movement skill, so it works well with Warrior Sprint, Brave Strider and Swift as the Wind. In fact, a skill like that really provides a significant improvement to a melee-heavy class in competitive modes.

The point here is that while pistol is a ranged weapon, it still works well with the melee MH weapons.

Issue is, it's melee pistol. And the movement you described is essentially a downgraded Shield Bash, minus the stun, instead with an Aegis application that most certainly didn't provide any cover in outnumbered fights. In PvP and WvW you must always fight outnumbered. So far Berserker is far more sustainable than Bladesworn and even Torch is vastly superior as an OH providing PbAoE pressure.

 

Now pistol would not conflict that much if it had actual range in it's attacks, something no other OH has except from the awful Tremor on Mace OH.

[Obtena.7952]

51 minutes ago, Grand Marshal.4098 said:

Issue is, it's melee pistol. 

I think that's the point though because I don't think Anet ACCIDENTALLY developed the spec as a 'melee pistol'. 

I mean, Gunsaber COULD have been ranged ... OK. The problem I see there is that there is that there is even LESS core weapon selection to compliment a ranged spec concept than there is a melee one. How limited do you want to be? I can see the tradeoff Anet had to make here between more options as a melee spec ... or something that departs even more from the warrior and less options as a ranged spec.

To be honest, I'm not all that fussed about the spec not focusing on ranged weapons, because if the spec was released as a MH/OH pistol, what else would that be good with? The complaint would have been all the 'melee' skills on the Gunsaber messing up the ranged gameplay. Do you trade options for performance? Doesn't seem to be Anet's approach. 

Edited November 4, 2021 by Obtena.7952