Mechanist Feedback Thread

[Alcatraznc.3869]

4 hours ago, coro.3176 said:

It's a sliding scale. You can either have the golem around 100% of the time like a ranger pet and have it barely do any damage because it's taking up all the power budget of the traitline. .. Or you can have it be super impactful and do lots of damage, but only be around a smaller % of the time, like an elite skill.

What you can't have is a mech that is both really impactful and up all the time because then you have power creep. You have an elite spec that is giving far too much power for just one traitline.

 

As it currently is, the golem doesnt have much impact AND isnt permanent. Condi and support works decently at least for PVE but that's it. Power is underwhelming post nerf and needs a buff. The golem survivability is trash unless you're using gear with toughness and vitality even with the new protocol thingy perk. Even with the "come at me" button, the AI remains clunky that there will always be a delay between the moment you called it and the moment it react. All of that and you even lose your toolbelt skill.

 

It kind of feels like Anet did not go past the RP feeling. Yes it feels and look great to have a big golem following you , yes it feels nice to be able to customize that golem to fit our playstyle. But performance wise I feel cheated since only condition and support are kind of working right now. It is still not usable underwater, for some reason and I am pretty sure there will be a bit of underwater content in the DLC. They dont want to let the golem be up all the time, fine, but they permanently remove all the toolbelt skill instead of allowing the engineer to use at least some of its toolbelt skill when the golem isnt up. At this point I'm just repeating all that has been said before so I'll end here. 

[Alcatraznc.3869]

5 hours ago, Aravind.9610 said:

Losing your mech is the price you pay for being careless, especially since you have tools to help the mech escape damage.

I am not the mech AI, I cannot prevent him to not step into the AOE that will kill him. I cannot prevent him from suddently taking the boss agro. I cannot tell him to dodge an attack that will hit him. All I can do is pray that the monster will miss my pet. I cannot use a breakstun on my golem. We dont have tools to help the mech escape damage, we have one emergency escape in the form of the TP.  That's it. 

5 hours ago, Aravind.9610 said:

If we had a mech that is permanent then it would be nerfed to oblivion to be much MUCH weaker than even turrets and the entire mechanist spec would become literally 2 core traitlines even with the mech active.

This is just Anet not wanting to properly deal with AFK farmer. 

5 hours ago, Aravind.9610 said:

You say mechanist loses its core mechanic, I say it gains a new mechanic that actually requires you to pay attention to prevent it from dying.

Refer to what has been said above. I will add though the CC breakbar of the mech should be displayed somewhere around your mech HP.

5 hours ago, Aravind.9610 said:

And in the end, that new playstyle is what separates mechanist from other engineer specs, unlike the crappy virtuoso which has exactly the same effects on shatters as core except now they are ranged projectiles and have a cast time (which is actually worse).

I could very well say that Virtuoso now requires you to pay attention when using shatter and is no longer a braindead instant reward button. Everything you said so far could apply to Virtuoso to an extent.

5 hours ago, Aravind.9610 said:

And also temporary gimmick boosting isn't just mechanist's thing. Holosmith traitline focuses entirely on heat and photon forge and not core skills. Mechanist is just continuing in the same vein with the traits boosting the mechanic of the spec.

Holosmith have access to toolbelt skill all the time. Holosmith have to wait at worse around 15-20 sec if you mess up and overheat (without the actualy perk). Mechanist lose toolbelt permanently. It is replaced by a temporary golem skill. When the golem dies you wait 50 sec.

[SeTect.5918]

6 hours ago, Aravind.9610 said:

You already deal much more damage than the mech even on power builds, and if you aren't then clearly you need to git gud. And if you want a class where the pet deals almost no damage and you deal everything then maybe you should try ranger instead of mechanist because that is how it has been for years now.

Thats not at all what I meant.
What is the current dmg amount from mech of the total? 80% player and 20% mech? 90% player and 10% mech? However what I meant is that I wouldnt mind if its something like 90% 10% or 95% 5% on condi build.
Power mechanist is bad atm anyway.

And no these "If you want XX then play XX"-Comments are getting really old and have no sense. Or they r actually old and never had a sense. You play a class because of the theme, the specs, the skills (utility and weapon), the colours and whatever. Telling someone to change class bc of 1 thing makes no sense. Please stop, ty.
 

6 hours ago, Aravind.9610 said:

I have had no problems with mech dying at all, like ever, no matter which fractal I went to. This whole "IF IT DIES" thing is just getting old at this point. It can't die even if I wanted it to.

Then u must be new and play T1's! Ah nvm thats what u said to me in the next one:

6 hours ago, Aravind.9610 said:

Maybe you're new here but this is exactly what happened to turrets, they were strong and people complained since they had a LONG uptime and so they were nerfed to the point of uselessness. And I am NOT waiting for another expansion and yet ANOTHER elite spec so they can give engineer a good spec. Not when mechanist is already very good and balanced.

No I am not new. And yes I know they r nerfed to the point of uselessness and thats even what I said in my comment. Exactly here:

7 hours ago, SeTect.5918 said:

And it wouldn't be "much MUCH" weaker than turrets cuz then u can actually also make a whole new e specs.

Turrets cant get boons.
Turrets die fast.
Turrets deal like 0 dmg.
Their usefulness is 0, yes. And thats the whole point. Mech cant be "much MUCH weaker than even turrets", as u said it so nicely, because then mech usefulness would go in the minus and that would mean it would even reduce the power of the player or helping the enemy, lol.

However can u please next time take away these "Maybe you're new here" or "Maybe you should try ranger instead". They r not nice. I am not new and I wont play ranger instead. Dont u think I ever played ranger in my years playing this game? Ah I forgot, you think I am new.
Even if I was new, you should maybe help out and explain instead of "you need to git gud" or "my mech never dies" or "Maybe you should try XX".

Btw turrets are utility skills while mech is the mechanic of the e spec. You can replace turrets while you cant replace mech. Saying mech would be "much MUCH weaker than even turrets" shows that you actually have 0 clue and dont see any difference between Mech and turrets.

Turrets already die very fast and deal low dmg and if Mech is "much MUCH weaker" than turrets then it would simply be a permadead 0 dmg dealing companion and thats exactly what we all want to avoid. Tho at least you deal the dmg lost from the mech goes to ur other stuff then.

Maybe a perma mech isnt possible but a lower CD is possible. A slightly less dealing (than it currently does) mech that has a lower CD and still has same sustain is clearly possible.

[Aravind.9610]

4 hours ago, SeTect.5918 said:

Then u must be new and play T1's! Ah nvm thats what u said to me in the next one:

I have all 3 pve legendary trinkets, and raid armor, and only do t4s at minimum. You said you tested the mech at open world boss Tarnished Traitor and didn't like it.

 

4 hours ago, SeTect.5918 said:

Even if I was new, you should maybe help out and explain instead of "you need to git gud" or "my mech never dies" or "Maybe you should try XX".

I don't need to explain anything. There is no mechanic in fractals that target the mech exclusively unless you are being dumb and run away from mobs without recalling the mech. And if something doesn't target it then it takes much less damage than it normally does (like 200 damage per hit). MOST MECHANICS CAN'T EVEN HIT PETS IN THE FIRST PLACE. At bosses it never dies unless you are facing a mechanic like bloom invulnerability at mid, or sunqua peak boss water phase whirlpool at mid, both of which are designed so you don't do damage while those are up. The only boss where mech is useless is at VG in raids because the greens hit pets, minions etc. And they already said they were looking to change that encounter. But if you need a useful tip here is one for you: DON'T LET THE MECH TANK FOR YOU EVER!!! It isn't designed as a tank, in fact no pet is designed to withstand damage for a long time. The only reason minion master pulls it off is because it can resummon minions soon after they die and for rangers they can swap between 2 pets on a 20 second cooldown. Mechanist has one pet, and it is NOT designed to take damage. Because despite it having higher than average health for a pet, it still does not have active defenses or dodges

 

4 hours ago, SeTect.5918 said:

Turrets cant get boons.
Turrets die fast.
Turrets deal like 0 dmg.
Their usefulness is 0, yes.

If you have it your way, then mech will have the same weaknesses as turrets, because a long time ago turrets were amazingly good, and they were complained about, and they were nerfed repeatedly to the point of being how they are now.

 

4 hours ago, SeTect.5918 said:

However can u please next time take away these "Maybe you're new here" or "Maybe you should try ranger instead".

I will if you stop saying dumb things like "My mech dies a lot in fractals", which is just not true for anyone with half a brain cell. As for ranger, yes it is a class that is close to your heart, since it has pets that do extremely low damage, with the ranger doing "95% of it" as you put it. I don't want mechanist to be some kind of copy of ranger garbage. If you want that you are better off playing ranger.

 

Edited January 3, 2022 by Aravind.9610

[Aravind.9610]

5 hours ago, Alcatraznc.3869 said:

I cannot prevent him from suddently taking the boss agro

Bosses in fractals and raids don't target pets by default. They target the player and ignore the pets. The only time boss can maybe target the pet is if everyone is running away from boss (not possible in raids) and you forget to use your recall button. Even then boss will first target the fleeing players until they get far enough away before even trying to target the pet.

Edited January 3, 2022 by Aravind.9610

[Aravind.9610]

5 hours ago, Alcatraznc.3869 said:

I cannot prevent him to not step into the AOE that will kill him.

If mech hasn't taken agro, then any damage it takes is reduced by a LOT.

[Aravind.9610]

4 hours ago, SeTect.5918 said:

You play a class because of the theme, the specs, the skills (utility and weapon), the colours and whatever.

https://imgur.com/a/0dCxStd. Here is my screencap of chaos fractal t4 with mechanist. And you want that nerfed because you want a ranger themed mech with pretty colors.

[SeTect.5918]

21 minutes ago, Aravind.9610 said:

I have all 3 pve legendary trinkets, and raid armor, and only do t4s at minimum. You said you tested the mech at open world boss Tarnished Traitor and didn't like it.

I will if you stop saying dumb things like "My mech dies a lot in fractals", which is just not true for anyone with half a brain cell. As for ranger, yes it is a class that is close to your heart, since it has pets that do extremely low damage, with the ranger doing "95% of it" as you put it. I don't want mechanist to be some kind of copy of ranger garbage. If you want that you are better off playing ranger.

When did I say that my mech dies a lot in fractals?
When did I say that I dont like the mech?
Never, exactly. Would be nice if you actually tell me what i actually said.
I said that I wouldve liked an e spec more thats not pet-focused. But I didnt say that I dont like how the mech turned out.
I also didnt say that my mech dies a lot in fractals. I said that my mech dies at certain bosses and their aoes.

If you think that I said "My mech dies a lot in fractals", then you can stop this now, bc i never said this. Great.

[Aravind.9610]

3 minutes ago, SeTect.5918 said:

I said that I wouldve liked an e spec more thats not pet-focused.

Tough luck then, because that is what we are getting. Too late to ask Anet to change the entire theme of the spec. And if they make YOUR changes the mechanist becomes trash tier. Because we all know how Anet balances things. They will simply nerf the mech without giving anything to compensate.

Edited January 3, 2022 by Aravind.9610

[SeTect.5918]

4 minutes ago, Aravind.9610 said:

https://imgur.com/a/0dCxStd. Here is my screencap of chaos fractal t4 with mechanist. And you want that nerfed because you want a ranger themed mech with pretty colors.

I didnt say that I want this nerfed. I want the mech itself slightly nerfed for a lower cooldown, not the mechanist.

Mech 7k dps.
Player 30k dps.
Together 37k dps.
Mech CD 50 sec.

Mech 5k dps. (or 4k)
Player 32k dps. (or 33k)
Together 37k dps.
Mech CD lower bc effectivity of it sinked. Mech dmg 7k - 5k difference around 30%.
Mech CD sinked to 35 sec.

Seems fine to me.

[SeTect.5918]

9 minutes ago, Aravind.9610 said:

Tough luck then, because that is what we are getting. Too late to ask Anet to change the entire theme of the spec. And if they make YOUR changes the mechanist becomes trash tier. Because we all know how Anet balances things. They will simply nerf the mech without giving anything to compensate.

Yes its too late and I dont want anet to change the entire theme of the spec, however I want the cooldown of crash down just lowered a bit. Like they already did basically (90 sec to 50) but even more.

The 2nd one is actually a good point but I think a lower cooldown is possible. Tbh I think it would even possible without nerfing mech dmg.

I get ur whole point that you want the mech to perform well and I understand that, I want that too but I still am not happy with the 50 sec CD. 25-35 sec seem nice to me. I ll be quiet then xD (I know somewhere above I said 20- 30 I think but I think 20 sec would be too low.)

Also went to a nice conversation to me now.

Edited January 3, 2022 by SeTect.5918

[Aravind.9610]

7 minutes ago, SeTect.5918 said:

I didnt say that I want this nerfed. I want the mech itself slightly nerfed for a lower cooldown, not the mechanist.

Mech 7k dps.
Player 30k dps.
Together 37k dps.
Mech CD 50 sec.

Mech 5k dps. (or 4k)
Player 32k dps. (or 33k)
Together 37k dps.
Mech CD lower bc effectivity of it sinked. Mech dmg 7k - 5k difference around 30%.
Mech CD sinked to 35 sec.

Seems fine to me.

What makes you think when they nerf the mech they will buff player damage? Have past balance patches not shown you what happens? What you say when say you want the mech nerfed, is basically the same as saying "I want the mechanist nerfed".

Edited January 3, 2022 by Aravind.9610

[SeTect.5918]

Just now, Aravind.9610 said:

What makes you think when they nerf the mech they will buff player damage? Have past balance patches not shown you what happens?

They did but they wont let the power e spec (holo) deal more condi dmg than the e spec with actual condi traits (mechanist).

At least I hope so.

Tho yes it can be that they ll only nerf.
But as I said above, I think lower CD to around 30 sec would be possible even without nerfs.

I still have hope in the balance team. A bit.

[Tails.9372]

On 1/3/2022 at 3:10 PM, SeTect.5918 said:

Mech 5k dps. (or 4k)
Player 32k dps. (or 33k)
Together 37k dps.
Mech CD lower bc effectivity of it sinked. Mech dmg 7k - 5k difference around 30%.
Mech CD sinked to 35 sec.

Seems fine to me.

The main point of a "pet" spec like the mechanist is to make the mech and the player roughly equal and I find the complains that "the mech takes to much from the player so nerf the mech and buff the player" to be inherently misguided. Why? Because it's easy to give both sides what they want by using this formula (based on the "37k" you mentioned):

While the mech is active: the mech (18,5 k) + the mechanist (18,5 k) = 37k dps

While the mech is dismissed or away for repairs: the mechanist (37k)

That way: "the mech + the mechanist = the mechanist allone" which would solve both the "the mechanist is useless without the mech" and the "I don't like pet classes" complains without having to downgrade the more mech focused builds.

[Adrianna.3092]

a pet build should be focused on the pet though... a true pet class would have the pet be the focus with the master supporting the pet... and while some people dont like that... that is the point of a pet class... to control and support your pet/pets while they fight for you...

 

instead of doing damage the engineer should be focused on buffing/healing the mech with maybe some condition damage... but with the mech doing the vast majority of the damage... and while some people will complain... those people can play one of the other elite specs that isn't supposed to be a pet spec...

and then you can have the pet do around 70-80% of your damage... with you there supporting it... no other pet in GW 2 is as strong as the mech is already... for the first time there is an actual pet spec... so please dont nerf the mech into the ground just so people who dont like pet specs can be happy...

Edited January 10, 2022 by Adrianna.3092

[leviathan.2148]

1 hour ago, Adrianna.3092 said:

a pet build should be focused on the pet though... a true pet class would have the pet be the focus with the master supporting the pet... and while some people dont like that... that is the point of a pet class... to control and support your pet/pets while they fight for you...

 

instead of doing damage the engineer should be focused on buffing/healing the mech with maybe some condition damage... but with the mech doing the vast majority of the damage... and while some people will complain... those people can play one of the other elite specs that isn't supposed to be a pet spec...

and then you can have the pet do around 70-80% of your damage... with you there supporting it... no other pet in GW 2 is as strong as the mech is already... for the first time there is an actual pet spec... so please dont nerf the mech into the ground just so people who dont like pet specs can be happy...

Pet spec is great in theory and I would be all for it if the pet AI had at least some semblance of competence. And don't even get me started on the pathing issues. In current state it's detrimental for the new spec design to rely on the pet so much. IMHO it could be circumvented (kinda) if the Mechanist played similarly to the Soulbeast but that's another can of worms.

I'm already resigned on not getting a fun new playstyle, maybe in two years when they redesign it like they did with Scrapper. Until then it's either the same kit piano playstyle with braindead pet or 11111 fest while trying to support your team with the braindead pet.

With that said nerfing the pet would be just another nail in the coffin. This spec needs redesign. 

Edited January 10, 2022 by leviathan.2148

[SeTect.5918]

7 hours ago, Tails.9372 said:

The main point of a "pet" spec like the mechanist is to make the mech and the player roughly equal and I find the complains that "the mech takes to much from the player so nerf the mech and buff the player" to be inherently misguided. Why? Because it's easy to give both sides what they want by using this formula (based on the "37k" you mentioned):

While the mech is active: the mech (18,5 k) + the mechanist (18,5 k) = 37k dps

While the mech is dismissed or away for repairs: the mechanist (37k)

That way: "the mech + the mechanist = the mechanist allone" which would solve both the "the mechanist is useless without the mech" and the "I don't like pet classes" complains without having to downgrade the more mech focused builds.

I like this but that opens another Problem because i can already hear all the "nerf mech" threads if this happens. The pvp/wvw balance would have to be fully different from pve then. Because Player Equal to mech dmg wouldn't be possible there. 

Especially in pvp and wvw anet showed that they dont want pets to perform too well. 

[Alcatraznc.3869]

17 hours ago, Adrianna.3092 said:

instead of doing damage the engineer should be focused on buffing/healing the mech with maybe some condition damage... but with the mech doing the vast majority of the damage... and while some people will complain... those people can play one of the other elite specs that isn't supposed to be a pet spec...

 

The issue with that is the Mech stat is very dependent of your gear. You cannot really play a support/healer engineer with zerk stats so you may as well just pump out damage and hope the Mech will not die too fast.

 

Same thing for conditions, although a lot more flexible than zerk, you wont really be able to heal/buff your mech that much so you may as well just help him pump out damage.

 

That covers at least the PVE part.

WvW / PvP will never allow an AI to do all the work for you but at the same time, GW2 AI isnt the brightest and can fairly easily be exploited (especially if you plan to make a melee mech). In SPVP I have seen some player have success by basically kiting to death while the opponent forget the mech is in range but in WvW that spec is pretty questionnable. Havent met a single Mechanist there and to be fair why would you play Mechanist in WvW ? Holosmith is more consistent at dealing damage and Scrapper provides a lot of tankiness and utility. Mechanist is definitely not a WvW spec and only kind of works in SPVP because of how small SPVP maps are.

[NIHILUS.4168]

Few things id like to see changed:

1. Dont tie mechs rocket punch cast to mace, thanks.

2. Toggle to allow mech to auto cast its 3 abilities.

3. Ability to dye our new best friend.

4. Rather than being dependent on your stats, just let us pick from selection of mech stats, mayby could even rework mechs to have their abilities come from this selection rather than traits, which in turn could be redesigned to further augment interaction between mech and owner.

5. Seems like commands would be better for spec than signets, but this and previous seem most unlikly to change.

Edited January 11, 2022 by NIHILUS.4168
Articulations an ongoing process.

[Tails.9372]

On 1/10/2022 at 2:59 PM, SeTect.5918 said:

I like this but that opens another Problem because i can already hear all the "nerf mech" threads if this happens.

Everyone who loses to something that does half the damage of a player, has severe pathing issues and doesn't use any active defences at all deserves the L as the issue here isn't that "the mech is OP" but that the person in question is just bad at the game which is something the last betas have shown as for sPvP the mech got less and less effective the higher the skill level of the players were and was essentially worthless in WvW.

On 1/10/2022 at 2:59 PM, SeTect.5918 said:

Especially in pvp and wvw anet showed that they dont want pets to perform too well. 

Well yeah because everything that currently has access to "pets" still has a decent performance on its own which wouldn't be the case in what I proposed earlier (unless you dismiss the mech) and it's not just damage you're giving up here. The loss of tool belt skills also takes some important defensive utility away from the player.

[SeTect.5918]

On 1/12/2022 at 3:37 PM, Tails.9372 said:

Everyone who loses to something that does half the damage of a player, has severe pathing issues and doesn't use any active defences at all deserves the L as the issue here isn't that "the mech is OP" but that the person in question is just bad at the game which is something the last betas have shown as for sPvP the mech got less and less effective the higher the skill level of the players were and was essentially worthless in WvW.

Well yeah because everything that currently has access to "pets" still has a decent performance on its own which wouldn't be the case in what I proposed earlier (unless you dismiss the mech) and it's not just damage you're giving up here. The loss of tool belt skills also takes some important defensive utility away from the player.

Agree with everything but seriously, do u think anet will let mech deal 50% of ur damage? Even in pvp? I think its most likely going to deal Like 10-15% dmg in pvp. 

People will start to cry once the mech gave them the final hit...Well tho thats always going to happen even if mech deals 5% dmg. 

But i think anet wants that you really have to actively outplay ur enemy and not that ur mech can solo...lets say...Not so good players.

What i said here is not what i want but it is what i think that anet will do. So a mech that deals 10-15% of ur dmg. Or not even bc i dont count f1-f3 mech skills as mech dmg bc the player activates these.

Edited January 13, 2022 by SeTect.5918

[Kontrolle.3514]

WTF guys im totally shocked and even triggered that there are people that defend this abornimation really whats wrong with you guys? 

 

i played engi as main since beta through PvP, WvW and PvE to complete legendary (except mace ofc...) and im so angry about this stupid new class that i stopped playing since it got announced. This Pet-AI Bull#### doesnt work. Turrets dont, pets dont, Spirit weapons and gyros didnt work. It will never be usable in WvW/PvP no matter how you patch it.

 

This class is a punishemt for all the time we dominated pvp and the only people that hype this "greatest mistake of gw2 history" are people that got owned alot by engis and try to retaliate that way. 

[Lesharin.9026]

Allow some implementation of the explosion proc with the mace, either on auto-attack or skills or from traits. I currently run an explosion build for my Engineer using mortar gun to proc explosion traits, and I can understand having to pick between mace and mortar gun but would like mace to be able to proc explosion traits reliably or semi reliably.

[Adrianna.3092]

54 minutes ago, Lesharin.9026 said:

Allow some implementation of the explosion proc with the mace, either on auto-attack or skills or from traits. I currently run an explosion build for my Engineer using mortar gun to proc explosion traits, and I can understand having to pick between mace and mortar gun but would like mace to be able to proc explosion traits reliably or semi reliably.

didn't they already make rocket punch on mace explosive though?

[Beggar.2079]

Dumbed down spec overall, signets, booooooring traits, mace skills are meh...

Aaaaaand a stupid AI (altough engi players have been complaining about how engis had too much AI stuff : turrets, and gyros that finally got changed to wells)

Make this golem a suit, a kit, idk, but NOT a dumb AI.

And give us back toolbelt skills please... Remember that god awful patch that made toolbelt skills useless for the entire cooling down duration of Holosmith ?

 

Anet please. 

 

 

Edited January 28, 2022 by Beggar.2079