Engineer can do permanent alacrity now...

[AppleSauce.4578]

People always jump to “Anet hates X class” instead of “Anet is bad at their job”. 

 

There isn’t some grand conspiracy against certain classes. It’s just that Anet isn’t great at everything. 

[Veprovina.4876]

17 minutes ago, AppleSauce.4578 said:

People always jump to “Anet hates X class” instead of “Anet is bad at their job”. 

 

There isn’t some grand conspiracy against certain classes. It’s just that Anet isn’t great at everything. 

What are you talking about, they're great at nerfing Mesmers! 

No other class had their stuff decimated, then given to everyone else, and still the only class who lost a dodge.

You can't say there's not at least some targeted stuff going on here.

They're not THAT bad, i mean, they like Engis and Guardians, their stuff is pretty much great for everything.

Also, i made a Necro and specced into Reaper the other day. Lmao, if that kitten isn't OP, i don't know what is.

[draxynnic.3719]

Eh, engineer was in a pretty bad way for high-end PvE until relatively recently, while despite all the nerfs mesmer never dropped out of 10-man content (although it stopped being indispensable when the chronomancer monopoly was broken). Seems to be more of a case of "some times one profession is in the spotlight, some times it's another". It just seems like Engineer is getting a lot because they are now - a quickness build and an alacrity build in quick succession - when for a long time engineer had all the complexity of elementalist without the payoff. (Which is, ironically, another case of the spotlight shifting, since now it's elementalist that has all the complexity and not much payoff.)

 

So Hanlon's razor might well apply here. 

[Veprovina.4876]

10 minutes ago, draxynnic.3719 said:

Eh, engineer was in a pretty bad way for high-end PvE until relatively recently, while despite all the nerfs mesmer never dropped out of 10-man content (although it stopped being indispensable when the chronomancer monopoly was broken). Seems to be more of a case of "some times one profession is in the spotlight, some times it's another". It just seems like Engineer is getting a lot because they are now - a quickness build and an alacrity build in quick succession - when for a long time engineer had all the complexity of elementalist without the payoff. (Which is, ironically, another case of the spotlight shifting, since now it's elementalist that has all the complexity and not much payoff.)

 

So Hanlon's razor might well apply here. 

Well, that's only if you look at it from Raiding perspective, and that seems to be all Anet ever does when balancing classes.

When you look at it globally across all game modes - Engi was never bad, not even in high end PvE, they're indispensible in WvW and were always a staple of any group, do well in PvP and now they can do everything in PvE. Mesmers weren't so lucky as Raid balances affected us in other game modes without any compensation for what was lost ever. 

[draxynnic.3719]

14 minutes ago, Veprovina.4876 said:

Well, that's only if you look at it from Raiding perspective, and that seems to be all Anet ever does when balancing classes.

When you look at it globally across all game modes - Engi was never bad, not even in high end PvE, they're indispensible in WvW and were always a staple of any group, do well in PvP and now they can do everything in PvE. Mesmers weren't so lucky as Raid balances affected us in other game modes without any compensation for what was lost ever. 

Yeah, I'm working on the assumption that we're considering raids, strikes, fractals, and similar environments because that's where "stack and receive alacrity" is most relevant. Alacrity builds simply don't exist in sPvP (although, while mesmers aren't meta there at the moment, they're not the worst off either). WvW zergs are probably the game mode I'm least experienced with, but looking at the current ratings boon chrono is rated higher than any alacrity build, and I don't exactly see an alacrity build that requires stacking on an AI proving to be all that popular in zergs.

 

So, in the context of the thread, I think it's reasonable to assume that we are looking at a high-end PvE perspective, since that's where mechanist alacrity is most likely to be relevant.

[Veprovina.4876]

1 hour ago, draxynnic.3719 said:

Yeah, I'm working on the assumption that we're considering raids, strikes, fractals, and similar environments because that's where "stack and receive alacrity" is most relevant. Alacrity builds simply don't exist in sPvP (although, while mesmers aren't meta there at the moment, they're not the worst off either). WvW zergs are probably the game mode I'm least experienced with, but looking at the current ratings boon chrono is rated higher than any alacrity build, and I don't exactly see an alacrity build that requires stacking on an AI proving to be all that popular in zergs.

 

So, in the context of the thread, I think it's reasonable to assume that we are looking at a high-end PvE perspective, since that's where mechanist alacrity is most likely to be relevant.

Nononono, you missed the point of the thread entirely.

  

On 10/29/2021 at 5:17 AM, Veprovina.4876 said:

I'm more annoyed that engineer has it in the first place to be honest, but that it's so easy to do is just adding insult to injury.

Makes Chrono seem like a discarded wet tissue in the middle of the road that someone didn't have the decency to even throw in the trash can...

I don't care about statistics, where Engi alacrity is being used and if it is, what gamemode what percentage, those things are all meaningless. I care that yet again, Anet has given Mesmers gimmick to someone else, and someone else is better at it than Mesmers will ever be.

[draxynnic.3719]

Oh, so you're saying you want to keep an important boon for high-end PvE to yourself.

 

The chronomancer monopoly wasn't healthy for the game. Spreading out those boons so that there are multiple ways to apply them is how you avoid metas where you MUST have a particular profession in order to have a realistic chance to clear content.

 

You can argue that mesmers should have an easier time applying quickness and alacrity than they currently do (half the problem is that ArenaNet kept nerfing it down and just raising the skill floor before they recognised that perma-alacrity and perma-quickness were always going to be part of the high-end PvE meta and that the answer was to offer alternatives) but alacrity is just too important a boon to limit to just one or two professions. 

[Veprovina.4876]

Just now, draxynnic.3719 said:

Oh, so you're saying you want to keep an important boon for high-end PvE to yourself.

When did i say that?

Just now, draxynnic.3719 said:

The chronomancer monopoly wasn't healthy for the game. Spreading out those boons so that there are multiple ways to apply them is how you avoid metas where you MUST have a particular profession in order to have a realistic chance to clear content.

Haha, and you're the judge of that? 😄 So tell me, if spreading out boons is so good an important, why didn't Memsers get anyone elses boons to provide to others? Also don't kid yourself, Alacrity stopped being a mesmer thing years ago, and in all the high end content that you're using as arguments - it's exactly that you HAVE TO have a certain profession to clear the content, removing alacrity from mesmer didn't do kitten to change that lol, if you want proof, go to any Raiding party or Snowcrows site and see what's "meta" for each boss. 

Meta will always mean that there's someone that's most suited to clear something "most efficiently". Chrono was never required to be succesful in raids ever, it was just most efficient for a time. Now meta changed, and will change again with certain patches so i'm not sure why you're using that as an argument for anything cause it's irrelevant.

Just now, draxynnic.3719 said:

You can argue that mesmers should have an easier time applying quickness and alacrity than they currently do (half the problem is that ArenaNet kept nerfing it down and just raising the skill floor before they recognised that perma-alacrity and perma-quickness were always going to be part of the high-end PvE meta and that the answer was to offer alternatives) but alacrity is just too important a boon to limit to just one or two professions. 

Alacrity is a gimmick that people use for speedruns, nothing else. You can clear any content without it, so don't misrepresent it as something essential. It kept getting slowly removed from mesmers because Anet didn't like Mesmers to be meta at Raids. That's it. They took 0 consideration on how this affects other modes, and just gave Alacrity away as a boon. Which, ok, neat, more variety, but Mesmers didn't get anything as a compensation that one of their class mechanics (yes, alacrity was a mesmer elite spec mechanic), got lost and given away.

 

So between all classes - mesmers are the only ones that lost an elite spec mechanic, lost a core spec functinality that the entire game is based on, and Anet just kept nerfing and nerfing regardless.

[anbujackson.9564]

I'm a diehard chrono fan, not those STM vomitters but the Build with good old wells for both boons (which no1 plays anymore pretty much). And even as a diehard fan I shake my head at this exaggeration, sorry.

 

Chrono is very strong, its just overshadowed by classes who need to press max 3 skills to generate perma boon uptime. The nerfs to power chrono and chaos chrono were justified (even tho the chaos shatter trait was too much). You get a new pdps with virtuoso. Sometimes I am wondering though, if two old chaos chronos were more balanced than the meta shitshow we got now (since they did barely any damage).

 

Mirage was (still is) very strong for condi encounters. Even if the alac isnt 100% on almost full dps equipment and traits, you also do a shitload of might to 10! people while pressing 1111  with a few dodges inbetween. Doing perma boons with dps gear is powercreep and it sucks. Thats why rr renegade is completely broken. Not sure about mechanist since the golem will do less damage then I guess? Still powercreep if you dont need BD. 

 

But yeah if you want to cry about a kitten state in the game, you might as well not look any further than warrior. Its the only class next to ranger that cant generate any quickness or alac for the group. Then again druid is op as support, which warrior has no real access to (as the only class after EoD launches). And no, shout heal is bad and the boons you do are worthless (mostly only might and a bit of fury on 5 people) since they are thrown around by everyone else and the only reason warriors still exist mostly in 10man content is because of 2 utility skills that lack any fun gameplay. 

 

Edited November 4, 2021 by anbujackson.9564

[necromaniac.7629]

posts like this that make zero sense should get taken down, there is no logical follow up to this absurd argument whatsover, i don't think you know what you are talking about.

Edited November 4, 2021 by necromaniac.7629

[Obtena.7952]

I don't think giving perma alacrity with auto attacks is all that much to get excited about or upset about either, especially if there isn't much to take advantage of as the source. That isn't less boring than the Staff Mirage people are complaining about.

Edited November 4, 2021 by Obtena.7952

[Grand Marshal.4098]

9 hours ago, draxynnic.3719 said:

Eh, engineer was in a pretty bad way for high-end PvE until relatively recently, while despite all the nerfs mesmer never dropped out of 10-man content (although it stopped being indispensable when the chronomancer monopoly was broken). Seems to be more of a case of "some times one profession is in the spotlight, some times it's another". It just seems like Engineer is getting a lot because they are now - a quickness build and an alacrity build in quick succession - when for a long time engineer had all the complexity of elementalist without the payoff. (Which is, ironically, another case of the spotlight shifting, since now it's elementalist that has all the complexity and not much payoff.)

 

So Hanlon's razor might well apply here. 

Forget roles and role compression. Reject roles entirely. Embrace slavery to the stick. Slavery that' not even sought after nowadays.

[Jables.4659]

I'm not saying that the post lay-off development team isn't unfair to Mesmer (they are), but I don't understand why anyone would care about a meme build like Alacrity Mirage.  We are talking about a build that functions by swapping between two staves and spamming ambushes.  This is the lowest IQ build I've seen from the Guild Wars franchise since Spirit-Way back in Guild Wars: Nightfall.

[draxynnic.3719]

"Alacrity is only for speedruns"? Please. Sure, if an encounter doesn't have a hard DPS checks or fail timers you can theoretically run full heal tempests and win by outhealing any enrage damage...eventually. Alacrity and quickness make it a lot faster and smoother, though, especially since alacrity also speeds up healing cooldowns, boon application, blocks, and so on. Playing high-end PvE without them was effectively playing with one hand behind your back. And between HoT and PoF, playing with them required playing with a chronomancer - and part of the problem with the nerfs was that they just meant more chronomancers to keep the uptime up.

 

There is definitely constructive criticism to be made, but this whole pity party isn't constructive. ArenaNet isn't secretly aiming to destroy one of their signature professions. There have been times when mesmer absolutely was dominant in one mode and/or another, and when it was it was no more prone to heavy-handed nerfs than any other professions (rare to see a firebrand in sPvP nowadays, and when you do, you really want it to be on the enemy team, it's almost a free win). They also didn't need to give alacrity to mirage... however clumsy that was. Mesmer's problems can largely be attributed to ArenaNet still not figuring out what they want it to be, and that's where Hanlon's razor comes in. And even if you're determined to pity party... there are professions that have it worse.

 

And yes, monopolies on important boons are bad for the game. Having a slot that HAS to be filled by a particular profession is basically providing job security for that profession at the expense of everyone else. Sure, there's always going to be something that's best at it when you remove that monopoly, but 'you have quickness/alacrity but give up a little more to get it than the best option' is a darn sight better than not having it at all.

[Jables.4659]

3 minutes ago, draxynnic.3719 said:

There is definitely constructive criticism to be made, but this whole pity party isn't constructive. ArenaNet isn't secretly aiming to destroy one of their signature professions. There have been times when mesmer absolutely was dominant in one mode and/or another

A lot of the "Mesmer is dead" forum-talk goes too far, but I don't think its unfair to point out that Mesmer has been receiving unfair treatment since the development team shake-up that occurred due to the lay-offs. 

The new team literally reverted buffs that Mesmer had received by the old team and and then nerfed the abilities to be significantly worse than they were before the buffs.  This happened to abilities that the old balance team buffed in their last patch that were then nerfed during the first patch by the new team (ex. Confusing Images power damage +25% and then -50%). 

When they decided to present each elite specialization with a "trade-off", the majority of specs received either no change at all or a minor inconvenience, with Necro and Rev actually getting buffs to core instead of nerfs. Meanwhile, both Mesmer elite specializations were neutered and left as broken shells of their former selves in competitive modes.

The most recent example of Mesmer getting shafted unfairly happened on the May 11th patch.  In an effort to make Firebrand more fun to play, they applied a blanket change to Mantra abilities which effectively removed a huge portion of each Mesmer Mantra's functionality while improving Firebrand.  They also decided to completely break Arcane Thievery in the same patch for seemingly no reason at all and then act like it was a quality of life change in the patch notes.  

Seriously, fix Arcane Thievery.  I will never stop bringing it up. 

[draxynnic.3719]

Yeah, the claim makes a little more sense if you limit it to the last couple of years, but there have been a lot of cases in that period of balance decisions that have been either questionable from the beginning, heavy-handed, and/or were supposed to have a followup that never came. Warrior and Elementalist are in worse states than Mesmer, and I say this as someone who plays a lot more mesmer than either, and I'd say they're also better off than thief outside of decapping duty (although spectre is coming) and roughly on par with ranger. There have been buffs in there as well, however clumsy some of them were.

 

Constructively highlighting specific issues like mantras is certainly to be encouraged, but I think the 'ArenaNet hates us' rhetoric is more likely to become a self-fulfilling prophecy than to bring positive change.

[Alcatraznc.3869]

Let's conveniently forget the loss of toolbelt skill to compensate for the mech, let's conveniently forget the inability to use the medkit heal (which is your main source of self healing and a decent source of friendly heal) for the sake of a pet that live its own life, has clunky/garbage control and can die very easily due to poor positioning/AOE or just gets chained CC by condition. 

 

And where that best class ranking come from ?  Warrior a bad profession ? Necro and Revenant an ok profession ? I still see a lot of Berserker doing good damage, Necro that can literaly ignore damage and Revenant...well it has been nerfed a bit but still. Mirage can still provide good alac coupled with a lot of condi damage. Hell it is my go to profession when I want to play without really thinking about rotation.

[Kodama.6453]

7 hours ago, Jables.4659 said:

When they decided to present each elite specialization with a "trade-off", the majority of specs received either no change at all or a minor inconvenience, with Necro and Rev actually getting buffs to core instead of nerfs. Meanwhile, both Mesmer elite specializations were neutered and left as broken shells of their former selves in competitive modes.

To be fair, this is more the result of the fact that Anet released these 2 elite specs with mechanics which break major rules of the game, hence why they were dominating extremely and needed to get nerfed.

Chronomancer literally has a reset button. A skill which resets health and cooldowns entirely to a previous point. I would argue that this is the strongest ability in the entire game, both offensively and defensively.

Mirage got a new dodge mechanic which allows them as the only class in the game to dodge while being cced... the whole paradigm "CC the enemy, then burst them" goes completely out the window against mirage because of this, since even if you land your CC, you can not follow up with burst since they can still simply dodge without having to invest a stunbreak like every other class.

The elite spec mechanics of other classes tend to be much simpler and not as rule breaking. Virtuoso is the first time mesmer gets an elite spec which actually doesn't have such novel mechanics...

[SeTect.5918]

On 10/26/2021 at 6:44 PM, Veprovina.4876 said:

Best professions in the game: Guardians and Engineers - they can do everything with ease, no effort required

Ok professions: Rangers, Revenants, Necromancers

Wat?

I am an engi main and can tell u that we dont do everything with ease and that no effort is required. Are you just salty now bc anet didnt think good enough about that trait so we got perma by auto attack so u make engi the op class of the game now?

Both power and condi holo are not high dps and not low dps, its pretty much normal dps.
Scrapper does both okay dps and gives perma quickness. But be sure the 34k dps on snowcrows is gone once u trait for quickness scrapper. Quickness chrono and quickness scrapper are dealing the same damage atm.

Then we have condi holo, my main build in gw2. Yea surely no effort required, its just a 3 kit build with the same kitten rotation as weaver.
The solo open world build of holo is also not really op now.
The solo scrapper build is not good against single target. It only does an awesome job against multiple targets because of the damage to barrier trait.
And if you would ve seen the mechanist condi build (what you should have since your post mainly goes about mechanist) you would not write something like that engi can do everything with ease, because unlike holo that uses 3 kits, condi mechanist uses 4 kits.
Sure it will get changed most likely, but the alac will too.


Ofc Mesmer needs more love.
Also Chrono could get better in wvw and pvp because its totally trash there.
I really love mesmer and they should get some stuff. Like i totally hated it when chrono got nerfed af on may 11 patch when i mained mesmer. And the nonsense nerf of time warp in pve.

But please dont put engi in op-role now, because its not.

Dont you think that the alac on mechanist gets nerfed down?

Somehow every profession subforum thinks their class is the most hated one.

Edited November 5, 2021 by SeTect.5918

[Arewn.2368]

Yes, everything is proof that arena net "hates" mesmer. And certainly allowing other profs to have access to some of the OP kit mesmer swaggers around with is proof of their hatred too. 

Even though mesmer has clearly been one of the favored profs in every area of the game since launch.

 

My raid group still brings double chrono for quick/alac tanking to most fights. It can also supplement heals. And has well performing dps specs.

[Puck.3697]

On 11/4/2021 at 3:42 AM, Veprovina.4876 said:

You must be new! 🤣

No 😂 i just don't rly understand how you think mesmers the worst proffession in the game while it's got more meta builds then any other proffession has in PvE. And has 2 strong builds in SPVP. 

It lacks in WvWvW and virt defintly does nothing to rectify that realistically. 

But it's not alone in that catagory. 

I feel there's s group of mesmers that want to make it look like somehow mesmer isn't competitive, janky in some places sure. Some design flaws sure (mirage 1 dodge I'm looking at you). 

But tbh. It's not alone in having weird quirks and rubbish. 

Ranger pets been terrible since game launch and AI is just as bad also. Most of the proffessions are scuffed in some way realistically..

The fact mech pets litterally get 0 boons while the entire specc is built on the pet being the primary is amazingly flawed. 

Mesmer sure. Has likely taken some rush decision changes (such as just outright removing a dodge). Due to mirages bad design to begin with. 

But the specc can still compete in both SPVP and raiding 

Edited November 5, 2021 by Daddy.8125

[SeTect.5918]

48 minutes ago, Daddy.8125 said:

No 😂 i just don't rly understand how you think mesmers the worst proffession in the game...

In every Profession subforum there are players thinking their class is the most hated or worst profession.

I also dont get how OP could say that engi can do everything with ease, while condi engi uses 3 kits and mechanist 4 kits and doing a rotation thats pretty on the same level as weavers.

The sustain of engi is overall also not op in pve.

OP seems to be just angry that engi got perma alac on auto attack now because anet maybe didnt pay a lot attention to that. Because it will surely get nerfed down.

At this point i dont understand why OP is not crying about renegade that in top in dps, gets perma alac with 1 click, has top sustain and is pretty okay competitive.

I mean i also would be angry if a class specific effect gets turned into a boon and given to other classes and they can do it better, but thats no reason to cry about other classes being op now. Specter also can give perma alac, renegade can, mechanist can, mirage can...
Sure mechanist can do it just by auto attack but seriously, dont think it will stay like that. And Renegade has to click just 1 skill every XX seconds to give perma alac too.
OP seems to be just salty that anet didnt make so much thoughts on putting barrier to auto attack when having a trait giving alac on it. I am sure it will get moved to skill 2 or 3. And there it went away the perma auto attack alac.

However engi is simply not op and doesnt do everything with ease. Maybe OP never played engi, idk.
I think no profession does everything with ease.

Maybe you should just stop discussing since this thread is not going on objectively anymore. Its pretty much screaming at one person "Your profession is op" and "My profession is most hated". I still have no clue how someone could say engi can do everything with ease but however.

Edited November 5, 2021 by SeTect.5918

[Puck.3697]

1 hour ago, SeTect.5918 said:

In every Profession subforum there are players thinking their class is the most hated or worst profession.

I also dont get how OP could say that engi can do everything with ease, while condi engi uses 3 kits and mechanist 4 kits and doing a rotation thats pretty on the same level as weavers.

The sustain of engi is overall also not op in pve.

OP seems to be just angry that engi got perma alac on auto attack now because anet maybe didnt pay a lot attention to that. Because it will surely get nerfed down.

At this point i dont understand why OP is not crying about renegade that in top in dps, gets perma alac with 1 click, has top sustain and is pretty okay competitive.

I mean i also would be angry if a class specific effect gets turned into a boon and given to other classes and they can do it better, but thats no reason to cry about other classes being op now. Specter also can give perma alac, renegade can, mechanist can, mirage can...
Sure mechanist can do it just by auto attack but seriously, dont think it will stay like that. And Renegade has to click just 1 skill every XX seconds to give perma alac too.
OP seems to be just salty that anet didnt make so much thoughts on putting barrier to auto attack when having a trait giving alac on it. I am sure it will get moved to skill 2 or 3. And there it went away the perma auto attack alac.

However engi is simply not op and doesnt do everything with ease. Maybe OP never played engi, idk.
I think no profession does everything with ease.

Maybe you should just stop discussing since this thread is not going on objectively anymore. Its pretty much screaming at one person "Your profession is op" and "My profession is most hated". I still have no clue how someone could say engi can do everything with ease but however.

Isn't engis alacrity 5 man anyway? So beneath rev who supplies 10? 

Imho I don't rly consider mech to be OP. If the mech dies. 3/4s of the specc turns off, I don't even main engineer it defintly cant do everything with ease. 

It has barrier, alacrity, quickness and power DPS effectively and you can't even get all 3 of those at the same time at all really. It also does less DPS then both virt and chrono it does 40k on a cheating golem. As in raids Ur pet wouldn't have those boons so u can prolly take 8-10k of the DPS off and say it'd prolly do 30k in a proper raid enviroment 

But yeah agreed, likely not worth discussing this thread 😂 some people want to believe they have it harder then everyone else. 

 

 

[souldancer.3408]

"Engineer can do permanent alacrity now..."

Renegades in the out of combat corner constantly legend swapping and spamming one skill: ☕

[Jables.4659]

On 11/5/2021 at 5:07 AM, Kodama.6453 said:

To be fair, this is more the result of the fact that Anet released these 2 elite specs with mechanics which break major rules of the game, hence why they were dominating extremely and needed to get nerfed.

No arguments from me there, I completely agree.  My problem isn't that they decided certain mechanics on Chronomancer and Mirage were unhealthy and that changes were needed for those elite specializations.  My problem is the way they went about changing the elite specializations on top of the fact that they had already taken severe cracks at so many different aspects of elite specialization traitlines, core traitlines, core utilities, and core weapon skills and seemingly forgot to take those nerfs into consideration when they took a hatchet to the e-specs. 

If Cont. Split was problematic, why did they go after Distortion (and Illusionary Persona)?

If Mirage Cloak and the synergy between condition weapons and Infinite Horizon were problematic, why did they leave those mechanics in place and go after Mirage's dodge bar?

These were quick and dirty changes.  Realistically, C-Mirage is the only Mesmer build that would've been a problem after the power nerfs (if those changes hadn't happened).  The irony is that they nerfed Mirage in such a way that C-Mirage is now the only Mirage build that sort of functions.