Follow Square Enix on Banning Content Clears for Gold, Please ANET

[Obtena.7952]

2 minutes ago, Sobx.1758 said:

Cool, it's understandable you can think so. But as far as I see, you were proposing that in the thread made by op instead of arguing whether or not it's reasonable. So your proposed "solution" isn't a solution to anything mentioned here.

I don't get your meaning. People were complaining people were selling raid clears. I'm not imagining that. If people want that to stop because 'earning their keep naturally' is something they want to impose on others, they just need to undercut sellers by doing the same service for free. Problem solved ... people aren't selling and others 'earning their keep' by teaming with the 'earning their keep' crusaders. 

Edited November 1, 2021 by Obtena.7952

[Sobx.1758]

4 minutes ago, Obtena.7952 said:

I don't get your meaning. People were complaining people were selling raid clears. I'm not imagining that. If people want that to stop because 'earning their keep naturally' is something they want to impose on others, they just need to undercut sellers by doing the same service for free. 

Yes, people were complaining about people selling raids -but maybe re-read why. It's not "just because they're selling something", it's also "because it's getting achievements/rewards while essentially not playing the game". That is what OP says and that is an inherent part of this thread. As I said, it seems you've just focused on the "selling" part while disregarding anything else.

And no, "doing the same service for free" doesn't change anything about that situation, uh.

Edited November 1, 2021 by Sobx.1758

[Obtena.7952]

1 minute ago, Sobx.1758 said:

Yes, people were complaining about people selling raids -but maybe re-read why. It's not "just because they're selling something", it's also "because it's getting achievements/rewards while essentially not playing the game". That is what OP says and that is an inherent part of this thread. As I said, it seems you've just focused on the "selling" part while disregarding anything else.

Well, that complaint doesn't really make sense because they got that gold from somewhere and also, how people obtain their achievements doesn't affect others anyways. 

Again, I'm waiting for the OP to describe how people buying raid clears affects his ingame experience. 

Edited November 1, 2021 by Obtena.7952

[Sobx.1758]

Just now, Obtena.7952 said:

Well, that complaint doesn't really make sense because they got that gold from somewhere. 

That's great, you're free to think that. But -again- "do more of the same except for free" isn't an answer to this thread because it doesn't address the complaint.

[Obtena.7952]

4 minutes ago, Sobx.1758 said:

That's great, you're free to think that. But -again- "do more of the same except for free" isn't an answer to this thread because it doesn't address the complaint.

As long as the complaint is that buying raid clears offends the OP's sense of morality, it's not really valid to begin with. The OP needs to actually explain how other people purchasing raid clears affects his own ingame experience in a negative way. The fact is that people purchasing raid clears is completely transparent to anyone except for the people buying and selling. 

I mean, I'm offended by bright, busy colour schemes on armors too ... when does Anet fix that problem for me?

Edited November 1, 2021 by Obtena.7952

[Sobx.1758]

7 minutes ago, Obtena.7952 said:

As long as the complaint is that buying raid clears offends the OP's sense of morality, it's not really valid to begin with. The OP needs to actually explain how other people purchasing raid clears affects his own ingame experience in a negative way. The fact is that people purchasing raid clears is completely transparent to anyone except for the people buying and selling. 

Wait, what exactly is unclear in my last few posts? I'm not arguing whether or not anyone agrees with OP's argumentation (and neither did you in your initial post I responded to) -whether or not anyone agrees with it is fully subjective anyways. I'm just saying that if you're responding to OP then your "solution" isn't a solution, it's just more of the same.

Quote

I mean, I'm offended by bright, busy colour schemes on armors too ... when does Anet fix that problem for me?

...and you're free to open a thread with that complaint as far as I know. 

Edited November 2, 2021 by Sobx.1758

[Obtena.7952]

9 minutes ago, Sobx.1758 said:

Wait, what exactly is unclear in my last few posts? I'm not arguing whether or not anyone agrees with OP's argumentation (and neither did you in your initial post I responded to) -whether or not anyone agrees with it is fully subjective anyways. I'm just saying that if you're responding to OP then your "solution" isn't a solution, it's just more of the same.

Not sure what you want me to say. If you want to know what I'm about, my posts and who they are replying to are pretty clear. I mean, the whole premise of the thread is pretty absurd if you think about it. OP wants Anet to police people so they 'earn their keep'? Seems to me that if people earn gold and exchange that for a service or assistance to get achievements/completions, they are doing EXACTLY that. 

Furthermore, HOWEVER people choose to get their achievements/completions doesn't affect him anyways ... so basically, he should mind his own business and pay attention to his OWN game instead of telling others how they should be playing.

Edited November 2, 2021 by Obtena.7952

[Sobx.1758]

5 minutes ago, Obtena.7952 said:

Not sure what you want me to say. If you want to know what I'm about, my posts and who they are replying to are pretty clear. I mean, the whole premise of the thread is pretty absurd if you think about it. OP wants Anet to police people so they 'earn their keep'? Seems to me that if people earn gold and exchange that for a service or assistance to get achievements/completions, they are doing EXACTLY that. 

I'm just letting you know that you've ignored what OP said, isolated solely the "sale" part and then pretended that "doing the same for free" will change anything about the situation OP sees as problematic. You weren't arguing whether or not his complaint is reasonable, so not sure why you're trying to repeatedly respond with that to me now.

"What do I want you to say"? Why would I want you to say anything? Just letting you know what details you've missed and why your "solution" isn't a solution. Again, I don't know why you're suddenly arguing whether or not that complaint is reasonable. It wasn't part of your post and it wasn't part of my response. Not sure how to be any more clear about that.

Edited November 2, 2021 by Sobx.1758

[Obtena.7952]

3 minutes ago, Sobx.1758 said:

I'm just letting you know that you've ignored what OP said,

Sure ... because what he is saying is absurd and nonsensical in the first place. For some reason he doesn't consider people earning gold and exchanging that for assistance/service to get achievements/completions "earning their keep". That doesn't make sense. I'm more than aware what he is trying to do. The next best thing for him to do is go on a 'crusade' and involve people to 'earn their keep' by providing the same service for free. 

Edited November 2, 2021 by Obtena.7952

[Charall.4710]

1 minute ago, Obtena.7952 said:

Sure ... because what he is saying is absurd and nonsensical. I'm more than aware what he is trying to do. 

Evidently not, because I have had quite a few people checking the raid LFM section of LFG all day and up till about 8 PM EST there was only a grand total of maybe 15 parties advertising for more people while the others were selling runs for gold or straight up RMTing when you look at some of the listings like PMA.

[Sobx.1758]

18 minutes ago, Obtena.7952 said:

Sure ... because what he is saying is absurd and nonsensical. I'm more than aware what he is trying to do. 

Again, you're free to think that. But that has nothing to do with what you said when you've pretended you have a "solution" here while you've ignored what people before you said:

What you said there makes no sense in the context of this thread and changes nothing about the complaint. You clearly weren't discussing the validity of this thread there.

Edited November 2, 2021 by Sobx.1758

[Obtena.7952]

4 minutes ago, Dravvi.3146 said:

Evidently not, because I have had quite a few people checking the raid LFM section of LFG all day and up till about 8 PM EST there was only a grand total of maybe 15 parties advertising for more people while the others were selling runs for gold or straight up RMTing when you look at some of the listings like PMA.

What is that evidence of? Seems to me that it's business as usual. Teams LFM and some sellers 

Edited November 2, 2021 by Obtena.7952

[Charall.4710]

This would not be a hot topic if it was not a problem that obviously is effecting the raiding scene, I am sorry but if you pay attention to the listings. There are very few normally advertising for LFM in the LFM chat compared to the selling runs for gold and in some cases actual real life money by directing to discord/external sites. 

This should not be clogging up a LFG like that, it's total BS and needs to be cleaned up and I am calling on Anet to do something about it which they should.

Edited November 2, 2021 by Dravvi.3146

[Obtena.7952]

5 minutes ago, Dravvi.3146 said:

This would not be a hot topic if it was not a problem that obviously is effecting the raiding scene, I am sorry but if you pay attention to the listings. There are very few normally advertising for LFM in the LFM chat compared to the selling runs for gold and in some cases actual real life money by directing to discord/external sites. 

This should not be clogging up a LFG like that, it's total BS and needs to be cleaned up.

Hold on here ... those sellers wouldn't be 'clogging up' the LFG if that wasn't a service people wanted. So again, if you don't want them there and you believe they are a 'negative influence' on the raid scene, start undercutting them to put them out of business. Otherwise, stop swinging the banner of 'earning your keep' as a way to justify your dislike for the practice of exchanging gold for a service.  

Edited November 2, 2021 by Obtena.7952

[Charall.4710]

1 minute ago, Obtena.7952 said:

Hold on here ... those sellers wouldn't be 'clogging up' the LFG if that wasn't a service people wanted. So again, if you don't want them their, start undercutting them to put them out of business. Otherwise, stop swinging the banner of 'earning your keep' as a way to justify your dislike for the practice. 

That's a horrible solution to the problem at hand and an even worse attempt to say "it is what it is." Selling runs would defeat the purpose of this post, No.

[Obtena.7952]

6 minutes ago, Dravvi.3146 said:

That's a horrible solution to the problem at hand and an even worse attempt to say "it is what it is." Selling runs would defeat the purpose of this post, No.

I'm not suggesting you sell runs ... I'm suggesting you do it for free so sellers don't have customers to get gold from and stop 'clogging' your precious LFG. The number of people willing to pay for a service trends opposite to the number of people willing to give that service away for free. 

See here is my real problem ... you're pretending this about some moral issue of people supposed to be playing to earn their keep instead of just buying their way through the game. That's just a thinly veiled ruse to complain about LFG 'clogged' up with sellers because you already know the 'earning your keep' argument is a steaming load. People DO earn that gold they exchange for this service. 

Edited November 2, 2021 by Obtena.7952

[Sobx.1758]

6 minutes ago, Obtena.7952 said:

I'm not suggesting you sell runs ... I'm suggesting you do it for free so sellers don't have customers to get gold from and stop 'clogging' your precious LFG. 

Just like in the initial post where you've proposed this, this is not a solution as it doesn't address the concerns raised in this thread. "Do more of the same except for free" changes nothing here.

Edited November 2, 2021 by Sobx.1758

[Obtena.7952]

4 minutes ago, Sobx.1758 said:

Just like in the initial post where you've proposed this, this is not a solution as it doesn't address the concerns raised in this thread.

Because the concerns are bogus ... this problem isn't about what the OP claims it is. It's got nothing to do with 'earning your keep'. It's got everything to do with "don't like seeing sellers on LFG". The only reason the OP is complaining about this in the first place is only because he can SEE the sellers on LFG. If he couldn't see them, he would have NO idea this was going on. At best, he could only suspect it and even then, not know the occurrence of the practice. 

No, this isn't about earning your keep, it's about the fact that the OP concludes this is a problem because he sees LFG listings to sell raidclears. 

Edited November 2, 2021 by Obtena.7952

[Sobx.1758]

8 minutes ago, Obtena.7952 said:

Because the concerns are bogus ...

Do you understand that "arguing about the complaint being bogus" and "pretending something's a solution to the problem you disagree is a problem" are two completely different things?

Because right now you're in a loop of: Pretend "doing the same for free" is a solution to the raised problem, when it clearly isn't => understand it's not a solution => try arguing that the problem isn't the real problem as a response => pretend "doing the same for free" is a solution to....

I don't know what's your goal with this pattern. If you want to claim the problem isn't a problem then you're free to do it. But stop pretending your "do the same for free!" is a solution, when it just makes no sense in the context of the thread.

Edited November 2, 2021 by Sobx.1758

[Asgaeroth.6427]

FFXIV can ban paid carries because they offer difficulty options, and there's a way for all levels of ability to experience the content. GW2 has no difficulty options for content and the base content difficulty is tuned way beyond what most of the players are capable of. This is a trivial to solve issue, have difficulty options. It is something they could pass to an intern as a morning project. There's a specific reason that we have both legal paid carries and exceptionally difficult raids. It isn't to oppress the disabled and differently minded, it isn't to appease elitist snobs. That is the end result for the players, but the reason we will never see a fix is because Anet is in on the scam.

Ion at Activision hit on it too, and WoW has also gone this way. The thing players are most forced to spend real money on gold is for paid carries. It is a bottomless source of revenue, it is likely Anet's primary source of revenue. When Blizzard implemented officially supported paid carries and gated all progression behind those paid carries, their gold sales skyrocketed to unprecedented and unexpected levels. Blizzard has doubled down every patch on supporting paid carries even in the face of unprecedented player loss. The reason we can't have versatile raids and the reason LFG sections will eternally be spammed with paid carries is because people will swipe that card every single week for those paid carries.

[Teratus.2859]

6 hours ago, Obtena.7952 said:

Hold on here ... those sellers wouldn't be 'clogging up' the LFG if that wasn't a service people wanted. 

Actually that speaks to the larger problem of gatekeeping raid content which as we both know has been a subject long argued about on these forums.

Buying raids is simply a much easier solution for those who want their leggy armour but cannot get into the content by normal means.

This same problem as I mentioned before once existed with dungeons as well.
Although dungeons managed to recover over time and grow a casual playerbase where as raids.. well raids are just dead and abandoned content now.

[Cyninja.2954]

4 hours ago, Teratus.2859 said:

Buying raids is simply a much easier solution for those who want their leggy armour but rather pay others instead of learning the content.

There fixed that for you.

It's 2021, close to 2022. The game has had an influx of new players from other MMORPGs which have started raiding without issue (predominantly WoW). There are tons of resources available online. Anyone still harping on about gatekeeping missed a dozens of memos of this is simply not being the main issue they face.

Edited November 2, 2021 by Cyninja.2954

[Carcharoth Lucian.1378]

@Dravvi.3146

If you don't want to see the sellers, why do you not hide them?

Just type "-sel" in LFG search tab, and done ! Sellers don't exist anymore 😛

[ChronoPinoyX.7923]

Honestly I think at this point, the thread should just be closed since it's been played out. OP obviously has no clue about what the actual problem is with RMT and continues to blame Raid Sellers for it when the two have literally no connection.

They also continue to deny the fact that this game has a major AFK Farm/Botting problem (that still gets numerous threads even to this day) and just continues to blame RMT on legit players because they hate the fact that people are able to sell their services, legitimately, for people who might not want to run raids in the game. 

[Charall.4710]

43 minutes ago, ChronoPinoyX.7923 said:

They also continue to deny the fact that this game has a major AFK Farm/Botting problem

Dunno where you got that from but aight, RMT is a serious issue in the Raid LFM.

A post intended to draw attention to the LFM Raid section is not long after asked to be closed, lol why am I not surprised.

Edited November 2, 2021 by Dravvi.3146