Wouldnt it be better for Mech to be in the form of exosuit?

[maciora.9542]

Instead of the summon? Such a wasted potential in my opinnion... It would be cool to be able to get into mechs / having different builds maybe.... Summons are kind of meh... - Could be something like Ranger specialization when u can have summon and merge with Mech...

[Baudrillard.4612]

Quote

11 minutes ago, maciora.9542 said:

Instead of the summon? Such a wasted potential in my opinnion... It would be cool to be able to get into mechs / having different builds maybe.... Summons are kind of meh... - Could be something like Ranger specialization when u can have summon and merge with Mech...

 

Yeah, it was already mentioned in feedback thread. Robot has no synergy with a class, has a lot of AI problems and it's overall not what many engi players wanted. I'd rather prefer to have real Mech and have weapon/kits skills changed while I'm in it. My greatest fear is that it will be Scrapper 2.0 and we'll wait for 3 years to have AI canceled and Robot attached to the character as gyros did. 

[Ovalkvadratcylinder.9365]

100% better, u wouldnt just lose all the future patching time for the complete mess that is pet AI in gw2, but it would very likely pave way for much more interesting gameplay to this e-spec.
I mean theres a reason turret engi was nerfed to the ground in all game modes. Anet clearly took a stance on passive pet gameplay. This entire e-spec is the very definition of the "confused"- emote-

Edited October 31, 2021 by Ovalkvadratcylinder.9365

[Kodama.6453]

I would have preferred to avoid the mech theme entirely.

The AI pet we get might cause alot of trouble for balancing later on. But giving us a mech transformation is also just too close in gameplay to holosmith for me.

It's also doubling down on the theme of scrapper as some kind of mechanic already. There are more aspects to engineer than just always building robotic stuff.

[iKeostuKen.2738]

Mechanist but soulbeast is what we needed. Traits could stay the same.

[blp.3489]

If you want to go with the soulbeast analogy it should be able to act independently or merged.

[Bomboed.5697]

It would be completely different spec.
And yes, it would be better.

 

2 hours ago, Kodama.6453 said:

But giving us a mech transformation is also just too close in gameplay to holosmith for me.

Holo is more like a berserker to me, because holoforge uptime is very very limited.
Mech should work more like Necro's shroud, but with even more uptime.

I suggested something like this in different thread, but will copy it here:

 

INNOVATOR

Engineer who accumulates power charge to summon and pilot a powerful siege-mech.

 

WEAPON: STAFF

1200 range, power based weapon with lighting attacks. Not a main focus if this spec.

 

MECHANIC: SIEGE MECH

Engineer has a Shroud-like bar, which fills up with time (and some traits) and acts as a second health bar for Mech, which is summoned by pressing F5. Mech could be summoned ti target location (600 range from Engineer) and Engineer leaps to Mech to enter it.

When Mech is summoned, Engineer weapon skills are replaced with Mech weapon skills, Toolbelt is replaced with special Mech skills. Healing, utility and elite skills are unavailable inside Mech, just like in case of Necro's Shroud.
Mech is much more durable, than Necro in Shroud, and its uptime is longer, but Mech cannot dodge and most of its abilities slows or limits its mobility.

SIEGE MECH ABILITIES

 

#1 - Hammerfist

A powerful attack, that deals damage to foes in melee range and does not slows mech. With Traits it can be replaced with Sawblade, focused of Bleeding.

#2 - Auto-cannon

Shoot three explosive rounds with 1200 range. Channel time is 2 seconds. This ability has no CD and can be spammed for long range combat, but it slows Mech by 50%.

 

#3 - Artillery Barrage

Bombard a targeted area with hail of rockets from Mech's back launcher. 1200 range. Channel time is 3 seconds, during which Mech is immobile. Has CD. Can be modified with traits.

#4 Stomp

Mech stomps the ground and applies a powerful CC on nearby foes. Maybe a stun or knockdown or launch. Has pretty long cast time and obvious animation, but also a pretty huge radius. Has CD.

 

#5 Power Jump
After a brief delay, Mech jumps to targeted area, dealing damage upon landing. 900 range. Has significant CD.

 

F1 Self-repair.
Mech self-repairs some of its health and cures conditions. Channel time is something like 2 or 3 seconds. Mech health is no drained during this channel. This ability slows Mech by 50% for its duration. Has significant CD.

F2 Power Shield

Mech grants itself Aegis. Has Pretty slow CD. This is basically Mech's alternative to Dodge.

 

F3 Field Genetrator

Mech project a defensive dome around it, which reflects projectiles. During this ability Mech is immobile.

 

F4 Overclock

Drains some of Mech's health to grant it Quickness, Fury and Power.

F5 Self-Destruct

Engineer exits the Mech and leaps to target location. After some delay, Mech explodes, dealing massive damage in area.

[Kodama.6453]

25 minutes ago, Bomboed.5697 said:

It would be completely different spec.
And yes, it would be better.

 

Holo is more like a berserker to me, because holoforge uptime is very very limited.
Mech should work more like Necro's shroud, but with even more uptime.

I suggested something like this in different thread, but will copy it here:

 

INNOVATOR

Engineer who accumulates power charge to summon and pilot a powerful siege-mech.

 

WEAPON: STAFF

1200 range, power based weapon with lighting attacks. Not a main focus if this spec.

 

MECHANIC: SIEGE MECH

Engineer has a Shroud-like bar, which fills up with time (and some traits) and acts as a second health bar for Mech, which is summoned by pressing F5. Mech could be summoned ti target location (600 range from Engineer) and Engineer leaps to Mech to enter it.

When Mech is summoned, Engineer weapon skills are replaced with Mech weapon skills, Toolbelt is replaced with special Mech skills. Healing, utility and elite skills are unavailable inside Mech, just like in case of Necro's Shroud.
Mech is much more durable, than Necro in Shroud, and its uptime is longer, but Mech cannot dodge and most of its abilities slows or limits its mobility.

SIEGE MECH ABILITIES

 

#1 - Hammerfist

A powerful attack, that deals damage to foes in melee range and does not slows mech. With Traits it can be replaced with Sawblade, focused of Bleeding.

#2 - Auto-cannon

Shoot three explosive rounds with 1200 range. Channel time is 2 seconds. This ability has no CD and can be spammed for long range combat, but it slows Mech by 50%.

 

#3 - Artillery Barrage

Bombard a targeted area with hail of rockets from Mech's back launcher. 1200 range. Channel time is 3 seconds, during which Mech is immobile. Has CD. Can be modified with traits.

#4 Stomp

Mech stomps the ground and applies a powerful CC on nearby foes. Maybe a stun or knockdown or launch. Has pretty long cast time and obvious animation, but also a pretty huge radius. Has CD.

 

#5 Power Jump
After a brief delay, Mech jumps to targeted area, dealing damage upon landing. 900 range. Has significant CD.

 

F1 Self-repair.
Mech self-repairs some of its health and cures conditions. Channel time is something like 2 or 3 seconds. Mech health is no drained during this channel. This ability slows Mech by 50% for its duration. Has significant CD.

F2 Power Shield

Mech grants itself Aegis. Has Pretty slow CD. This is basically Mech's alternative to Dodge.

 

F3 Field Genetrator

Mech project a defensive dome around it, which reflects projectiles. During this ability Mech is immobile.

 

F4 Overclock

Drains some of Mech's health to grant it Quickness, Fury and Power.

F5 Self-Destruct

Engineer exits the Mech and leaps to target location. After some delay, Mech explodes, dealing massive damage in area.

Holosmith already got compared with necromancer alot for having this transformation mode.

I don't even say it would be the same, I just think that this mechanic would be too similar to holosmith for me to be interesting. It wouldn't feel like something new, but just like a slightly altered version of an elite spec we already have.

There are so many other mechanics engineer could explore which completely avoid this comparison, I would not go for a second transformation elite spec in favour of doing something truly new for engineer.

[Infusion.7149]

9 minutes ago, Kodama.6453 said:

Holosmith already got compared with necromancer alot for having this transformation mode.

I don't even say it would be the same, I just think that this mechanic would be too similar to holosmith for me to be interesting. It wouldn't feel like something new, but just like a slightly altered version of an elite spec we already have.

There are so many other mechanics engineer could explore which completely avoid this comparison, I would not go for a second transformation elite spec in favour of doing something truly new for engineer.

Holosmith has high damage / CC on Photonforge along with mobility and originally it was supposed to be high risk from overheat.
A Mechanist spec could have been focused on sustained DPS with low mobility and pulls instead of launches and leaps (i.e. tanky condi) without the risk of overheat. Think scourge vs reaper : one is condi/support easy mode and the other is more or less pure DPS with high risk of DPs loss due to loss of utilities and damage taken in shroud dropping you out of it.

[Bomboed.5697]

52 minutes ago, Kodama.6453 said:

Holosmith already got compared with necromancer alot for having this transformation mode.

I don't even say it would be the same, I just think that this mechanic would be too similar to holosmith for me to be interesting. It wouldn't feel like something new, but just like a slightly altered version of an elite spec we already have.

There are so many other mechanics engineer could explore which completely avoid this comparison, I would not go for a second transformation elite spec in favour of doing something truly new for engineer.

I just think that transformations are the best mechanics in the game, especially for Engineer because of lack of weapon swap. Just think about transformation not as a mechanic itself, but as way or tool to introduce other mechanics. A framework.
For example, Shroud introduces seconds health bar. Holoforge introduces overheat. They work absolutely differently and fulfill different playstyle, they just have the same framework - transformation.

[Kodama.6453]

1 hour ago, Bomboed.5697 said:

I just think that transformations are the best mechanics in the game, especially for Engineer because of lack of weapon swap. Just think about transformation not as a mechanic itself, but as way or tool to introduce other mechanics. A framework.
For example, Shroud introduces seconds health bar. Holoforge introduces overheat. They work absolutely differently and fulfill different playstyle, they just have the same framework - transformation.

I get that, I don't think that we should use the same framework over and over for engineer.

For necromancer, having multiple transformations as the framework for their elite specs makes sense. Because the transformation is already the core framework: the death shroud. They are then adjusting this framework with elite specs.

The framework for engineer are not transformations. Our core is the toolbelt... a way to get additional skills. Transformations are one way to achieve this core framework, but far from the only one. The pet we got, while problematic because of being AI, showcases this. It gives us additional skills, just like the toolbelt does, but in a different way.

Engineer has the advantage that the framework is just "get additional skills somehow". You can get really creative with this, so I think it is a waste to use the same framework multiple times. This is what differentiates us from other classes which are more tied up in design because the core stuff demands specific frames, like necros with their shroud for example.

[Kodama.6453]

17 hours ago, Infusion.7149 said:

Holosmith has high damage / CC on Photonforge along with mobility and originally it was supposed to be high risk from overheat.
A Mechanist spec could have been focused on sustained DPS with low mobility and pulls instead of launches and leaps (i.e. tanky condi) without the risk of overheat. Think scourge vs reaper : one is condi/support easy mode and the other is more or less pure DPS with high risk of DPs loss due to loss of utilities and damage taken in shroud dropping you out of it.

I am not talking about the actual playstyle, but the design concept in general.

 

Holosmith and mechanist would both use transformations as the class mechanic, which is boring, since engineer allows way more interesting stuff and concepts.

Necromancer for example is more limited for elite specs. The trait interactions basically demand that there is always some kind of shroud involved.

Engineer doesn't. Our trait interactions are basically just "you have additional skills you activate with f1-f5", but it is not really defined WHAT these skills are.

Using transformations 2 times seems like a waste in my eyes. We can be more creative with stuff, why use transformations for 2 elite specs, just with different stuff they are doing?

Edited November 1, 2021 by Kodama.6453

[Infusion.7149]

28 minutes ago, Kodama.6453 said:

I am not talking about the actual playstyle, but the design concept in general.

 

Holosmith and mechanist would both use transformations as the class mechanic, which is boring, since engineer allows way more interesting stuff and concepts.

Necromancer for example is more limited for elite specs. The trait interactions basically demand that there is always some kind of shroud involved.

Engineer doesn't. Our trait interactions are basically just "you have additional skills you activate with f1-f5", but it is not really defined WHAT these skills are.

Using transformations 2 times seems like a waste in my eyes. We can be more creative with stuff, why use transformations o  2 elite specs, just with different stuff they are doing?

Well the common complaint with engineer is the amount of kits it has if you want a semi-decent build on condition variants. Holosmith (single kit grenade unless you are condi) and scrapper (also single kit grenade) partly rectified that for power builds. A condi Mechanist should be able to have a competitive build using pistol or mace/Jade Mech + 2 of the three (flamethrower + grenade + bomb kit) rather than relying on 3-4 kits. Superconducting signet could have been a way out of that but it fell short mainly due to the confusion condition. Instead of removing all toolbelt skills it could have a been a limit on kits as the tradeoff (i.e Mech allows 2 kits : which would be 100% possible even for supports due to Med Kit + Elixir Gun , Mortar is optional).

If you look at firebrand that's a good example, the signet does enough that it is the top DPS variant. You don't run mantra of flame, purging flames and some other skill: you run mantra of flame, purging flames , signet of wrath. Renewed Focus in terms of refreshing the core virtues mechanic is more or less similar to Overclock Signet, the difference is F1 Tome of Justice resets when you kill something and is 30s cooldown at worst.

Edited October 31, 2021 by Infusion.7149

[Bomboed.5697]

14 minutes ago, Kodama.6453 said:

Our core is the toolbelt... a way to get additional skills.

Actually, you are wrong in first part and right in the second.
Our core is not toolbelt, but kits. Toolbelt is a by-product of Kits. Kits are a reason why we have toolbelt.
GW2 classes are designed around idea of limited skill sets. All classes have the same structure:  weapon skills, 1 healing, 3 utility and 1 elite. The whole combat is designed around CDs, because there is no mana or other resource for combat abilities. Only Thief is an exception, which allows this class to basically stay with one weapon all the time, because it is limited not by CDs, but with initiative cost.
All classes are balanced to have more than one bar of weapon swaps - due to CDs being the main "resource". For Elementalists it is replaced with attunements. And for Engi it is replaced with Kits.
But Anet decided, that it will be a good idea to give engineers not only freedom to choose which kits to use, but also a number of used kits. Because of that they made kits to fill utility slots, instead of giving them a fixed number of slots on F keys.
Because of that freedom toolbelt was introduced: it provides additional utility skills in case when actual utility slots are filled with kits.
Engineer gets additional skills via Kits. And toolbelt provides compensation for kits not being actual weapons.

Also, kits are basically transformations too. And weapon swap is transformation too. Everything that replaces skills are transformations. It is not a class mechanic, it is a basic game mechanic, so it is okay to use it several times.

[MagicalLeaf.1307]

It would be cool if it was a choice to go into the mech or not to wear it as a suit as we see with Scruffy/Taimi. But at the end of the day it feels nice to have a companion when playing Solo.

 

I do still feel like we should be able to gain access to toolkit skills 1-4 when the Mech is dead/unsummoned. 

[Kodama.6453]

2 hours ago, Bomboed.5697 said:

Actually, you are wrong in first part and right in the second.
Our core is not toolbelt, but kits. Toolbelt is a by-product of Kits. Kits are a reason why we have toolbelt.
GW2 classes are designed around idea of limited skill sets. All classes have the same structure:  weapon skills, 1 healing, 3 utility and 1 elite. The whole combat is designed around CDs, because there is no mana or other resource for combat abilities. Only Thief is an exception, which allows this class to basically stay with one weapon all the time, because it is limited not by CDs, but with initiative cost.
All classes are balanced to have more than one bar of weapon swaps - due to CDs being the main "resource". For Elementalists it is replaced with attunements. And for Engi it is replaced with Kits.
But Anet decided, that it will be a good idea to give engineers not only freedom to choose which kits to use, but also a number of used kits. Because of that they made kits to fill utility slots, instead of giving them a fixed number of slots on F keys.
Because of that freedom toolbelt was introduced: it provides additional utility skills in case when actual utility slots are filled with kits.
Engineer gets additional skills via Kits. And toolbelt provides compensation for kits not being actual weapons.

Also, kits are basically transformations too. And weapon swap is transformation too. Everything that replaces skills are transformations. It is not a class mechanic, it is a basic game mechanic, so it is okay to use it several times.

It is true that kits are the reason why we don't have weapon swap. And they have a high impact on our playstyle.

But they are still not our class mechanic. Kits are a choice, you can make engineer builds which don't have any kits at all. This is not possible with class mechanics in general, you can't choose to not have your class mechanic, it is something automatically given to you. There is also the fact that all class mechanics have an own stat in the hero panel. This stat for the engineer is toolbelt cooldown reduction, nothing with kits.

I know, people want kits to be our class mechanic, since it has more impact on our playstyle and such. But toolbelt is officially our class mechanic, not kits.

[lorddarkflare.9186]

I rather we all pool our energy talking about something that might actually get implemented in the game at this point.

A mechsuit is just another transformation. Sure it can have kit that makes it unique from Holosmith, but at the end of the day it is just a repeat spec. Say what you will about this class, but it is actually a unique idea for the class. Perhaps fundamentally unworkable? Sure. But giving engineers the first a true  non-ranger pet spec is original (neither Gyros nor turrets go as hard into AI as this class does. You could/can actually use those classes/skills without engaging with the AI).

Edited November 1, 2021 by lorddarkflare.9186

[Dracomet.3648]

20 hours ago, maciora.9542 said:

Instead of the summon? Such a wasted potential in my opinnion... It would be cool to be able to get into mechs / having different builds maybe.... Summons are kind of meh... - Could be something like Ranger specialization when u can have summon and merge with Mech...

Yes that's what many of us wanted. At minimum a shroud-like mechanic where we can merge with the pet and use the mech's health bar and skills.

[Smedziuk.2986]

Size wise, riding in the mech would be fine for Asura, Human and Sylvari but would get a bit ridiculous with Charr and Norn.

 

For a full height, male Norn the mech would be absolutely massive.

[azarhal.3086]

1 hour ago, Smedziuk.2986 said:

Size wise, riding in the mech would be fine for Asura, Human and Sylvari but would get a bit ridiculous with Charr and Norn.

 

For a full height, male Norn the mech would be absolutely massive.

Goin by the Norn personal story steps (The Dredge Hideout during the Order storyline), Anet doesn't really care that you don't fit into mechs...

[Cisii.8317]

When you summon the mech it should attack to your back straight away and it'll do its own thing like auto attacks. You'll be like that octopus guy from Spiderman. 

[Athel.2076]

I love the idea of the exo suit. But... Then they'd have to make underwater animations for it. And, well, I think you see my point.

[Aedil.1296]

I really like the mech pet, but in a perfect world I would have had an F5 that allows me to jump inside it as Taimi does with the golem and use it as an exo-suit. This would be my favourtiy class EVER. Like you can't beat this it would be so coooooollllll

[MrForz.1953]

6 hours ago, Aedil.1296 said:

I really like the mech pet, but in a perfect world I would have had an F5 that allows me to jump inside it as Taimi does with the golem and use it as an exo-suit. This would be my favourtiy class EVER. Like you can't beat this it would be so coooooollllll

Tell that to the charr or the norngineer.

Edited November 26, 2021 by MrForz.1953

[Bomboed.5697]

40 minutes ago, MrForz.1953 said:

Tell that to the charr or the norngineer.

Suspension of disbelief.
It is a game. There is no reason to physically fit norn or char model into a mech model. Because Mech model would simply replace player model when summoned. All it needs is to look big enough as a replacement, not big enough to actually contain a norn or charr.