Will we find out more about the blue orb...?

[Aedil.1296]

Yasss, that one on top of Fort trinity that function as a protection from the risen and apparently as energy source. During personal story we stole it from the kraits which they stole it as well from somewhere in the deeps.... Do you guys know anything more on this fascinating object? On the wiki there's not much tbh. 

[The Greyhawk.9107]

2 hours ago, Aedil.1296 said:

Yasss, that one on top of Fort trinity that function as a protection from the risen and apparently as energy source. During personal story we stole it from the kraits which they stole it as well from somewhere in the deeps.... Do you guys know anything more on this fascinating object? On the wiki there's not much tbh. 

I'm not inclined to think we'll learn anything more about the Orb than what little we already do.

[SoftFootpaws.9134]

Whats interesting is at some point they renamed it from Blue Water Orb to just Blue Orb. It seems they wanted to break all the fan theories about it being an artifact of the Deep Sea Dragon.

Edited November 6, 2021 by Hannelore.8153

[Fueki.4753]

There were some hypothesises that the Orb actually is an Elder Dragon egg.

It's Undead warding effect is similar to how minions of living Elder Dragons can't be corrupted by other Elder dragons.

However, I wouldn't be surprised, if Arenanet forgot about the orb.

[The Greyhawk.9107]

9 hours ago, Fueki.4753 said:

There were some hypothesises that the Orb actually is an Elder Dragon egg.

It's Undead warding effect is similar to how minions of living Elder Dragons can't be corrupted by other Elder dragons.

However, I wouldn't be surprised, if Arenanet forgot about the orb.

Anet, forgetting about sub-plot points?  Perish the thought!

[Konig Des Todes.2086]

Given we got nothing on Magdaer or the Claw of the Khan-Ur despite returning to Ascalon, and nothing on the Sanguinary Blade despite returning to the Jormag plot, I'm doubtful, even though we saw krait in some EoD elite spec trailers.

I feel it's in the same pile as those three, Malyck, Menzies, and Zojja.

10 hours ago, Fueki.4753 said:

It's Undead warding effect is similar to how minions of living Elder Dragons can't be corrupted by other Elder dragons.

To note, dragon minions can be corrupted by other Elder Dragons, as evident by Subject Alpha and Kudu's Monster from CoE, and later in PoF, the two Corrupted Facets, and in S4, Subject Beta and Caithe. Sylvari "immunity" (read: they just die on the moment of corruption) is implied to come from the Dream of Dreams rather than their nature as purified dragon minions.

However, they're not inclined to do so for still-unclear reasons. But given Subject Alpha's behavior and abilities, it would seem a minion of sufficient intelligence corrupted by multiple Elder Dragons is capable of commanding all related armies, and do not seem to serve any specific dragon. They also tend to corrupt different things and in different methods - Primordus corrupt land, Mordremoth corrupts plants, and Jormag corrupts the willing, which would prevent them from "normally" corrupting other dragon minions in their own preferred methods.

Edited November 7, 2021 by Konig Des Todes.2086

[radda.8920]

2 hours ago, Konig Des Todes.2086 said:

 I'm doubtful, even though we saw krait in some EoD elite spec trailers.

 

 

They're nagas, aren't they? I don't seem to have seen a krait

[The Greyhawk.9107]

3 hours ago, Konig Des Todes.2086 said:

Given we got nothing on Magdaer or the Claw of the Khan-Ur despite returning to Ascalon, and nothing on the Sanguinary Blade despite returning to the Jormag plot, I'm doubtful, even though we saw krait in some EoD elite spec trailers.

I feel it's in the same pile as those three, Malyck, Menzies, and Zojja.

Plus 'E', I still want to kittening know who 'E' was.

[Konig Des Todes.2086]

42 minutes ago, radda.8920 said:

They're nagas, aren't they? I don't seem to have seen a krait

There's both. The less colorful and smaller ones are krait, you can find their model in non-Kessex Kryta maps still, few they may be. Kessex uses the same Krytan models, technically, but with green glows so it's hard to see - Maguuma map krait use a different model altogether.

At 0:10 is a krait.

At 0:18 is a naga.

 

Curiously, in GW1, the krait were the larger, colorful serpents with feathers while the naga were the smaller, duller colored ones. It's weird that the two have effectively swapped around in GW2.

Edited November 7, 2021 by Konig Des Todes.2086

[Fueki.4753]

4 hours ago, Konig Des Todes.2086 said:

Subject Alpha and Kudu's Monster from CoE, and later in PoF, the two Corrupted Facets, and in S4, Subject Beta and Caithe. Sylvari "immunity" (read: they just die on the moment of corruption) is implied to come from the Dream of Dreams rather than their nature as purified dragon minions.

The Subjects Alpha and beta, as well as Kudu's monster are using Inquest tech, which is means unnatural spooky business is normal for them. That's also not an Elder Dragon corrupting minions, even those processes used their magic.

The faces were created by Glint, who wasn't an Elder Dragon, so they are viable for corruption.

When Caithe got Branded, Mordremoth was already dead, so that has no bearing on my point about minions of living Elder Dragons.

I also think that the Dream is related to Mordremoth's mind attribute, so that immunity would indeed come from Mordremoth.

Edited November 7, 2021 by Fueki.4753

[Sajuuk Khar.1509]

1 hour ago, Fueki.4753 said:

When Caithe got Branded, Mordremoth was already dead, so that has no bearing on my point about minions of living Elder Dragons.

Not to mention, immediately after Caithe got "branded" they explain how this works. Taimi makes a comment toward Caithe that she thought that Elder Dragons couldn't corrupt each other's minions, with Caithe responding by saying she wasn't corrupted, she was connected to Aurene willingly. They explicitly state its something else entirely then normal corruption.

This is presumably the same, or similar, process used on Ryland, and Braham, as they both exhibited similar connections to Jormag and Primordus respectively. Explaining their reversion to their original selves after those Elder Dragon died. Similar to how Caithe's flowers died when Aurene "died" fighting Kralk(though Aurene wasn't fully dead, just effectively comatose, which is likely why Catihe didn't undergo a full reversion like Braham and Ryland did)

Edited November 7, 2021 by Sajuuk Khar.1509

[Konig Des Todes.2086]

1 hour ago, Fueki.4753 said:

The Subjects Alpha and beta, as well as Kudu's monster are using Inquest tech, which is means unnatural spooky business is normal for them.

Yes, the unnatural and spooky technology of simple direct exposure.

Which every Elder Dragon does and more.

The silliness of that argument is that you're proclaiming the Inquest can do more with dragon magic than the Elder Dragons themselves, which are both the source and primary users of that magic for tens of thousands of years.

1 hour ago, Fueki.4753 said:

That's also not an Elder Dragon corrupting minions, even those processes used their magic.

The faces were created by Glint, who wasn't an Elder Dragon, so they are viable for corruption.

Elder Dragons very rarely corrupt things directly, usually using intermediaries like their champions, minions, or corrupting those who try to siphon magic from them (e.g., the Stone Summit in Forging Steel region, or kidnapped victims the CoE reactor). I mean, by that argument of "it wasn't created by an Elder Dragon" you attribute almost every dragon minion, and MOST DEFINITELY every single sylvari as they were created by the Pale Tree - a purified dragon champion just like Glint.

1 hour ago, Fueki.4753 said:

When Caithe got Branded, Mordremoth was already dead, so that has no bearing on my point about minions of living Elder Dragons.

And why would there be a difference? There is zero change in the risen and mordrem when Zhaitan and Mordrem die other than the fact they are no longer bound by their Elder Dragon's will, and there is even less change in sylvari given they were free willed from the get go.

Your argument of "the Elder Dragon has to be living" basically means the only thing that prevents dragon corruption would be the Elder Dragons instilling their will over the minions to enslave them... Which means sylvari shouldn't be immune.

1 hour ago, Fueki.4753 said:

I also think that the Dream is related to Mordremoth's mind attribute, so that immunity would indeed come from Mordremoth.

What little we know about the Dream actually showcases that it is very much the opposite - that it is countering Mordremoth and his mental influences, and Mordremoth had to exploit weaknesses in it in order to get into sylvari minds.

There were hints in Season 2 and early HoT drafts that the Nightmare would be Mordremoth's influence, but that ended up getting shafted mid-development. In the end, both the Dream and Nightmare seems wholly disconnected from Mordremoth.

Edited November 7, 2021 by Konig Des Todes.2086

[Konig Des Todes.2086]

1 minute ago, Sajuuk Khar.1509 said:

Not to mention immediately after Caithe got "branded" they explain how this works. Taimi makes a comment toward Caithe that she thought that Elder Dragons couldn't corrupt each other's minions, with Caithe responding point blank by saying she wasn't corrupted, she was connected to Aurene willingly. They explicitly state its something else entirely then normal corruption.

This is presumably the same process used on Ryland, and Braham, as they both exhibited similar connections to Jormag and Primordus respectively. Explaining thier reversion to thier orginal selves after those Elder Dragon die. Similar to how Caithe's flowers died when Aurene "died" fighting Kral(though Aurene wasn't fully dead, just effectively comatose,which is likely why Catihe didn't undergo a full reversion like Braham and Ryland did)

1) Taimi isn't a know-all-be-all. She merely states what she believed to be the case, something which counters hard evidence directly stated in front of us.

2) According to Gorrik, normal icebrood were effected similarly to Ryland. Unlike branded, mordrem, and risen, all icebrood and destroyers were heavily affected by the deaths of Jormag and Primordus.

3) Braham actually was corrupted, and Primordus would have no reason to bond Braham anyways, but his connection to the Spirits of the Wild kept him sane. This is covered in Champion's End.

<Character name>: Are the Spirits of the Wild still with you?

Braham: They kept me from falling off the edge. Wasn't easy. They're gonna need time to recover.

Not that you'd care to listen to me in any of this.

[SoftFootpaws.9134]

3 hours ago, The Greyhawk.9107 said:

Plus 'E', I still want to kittening know who 'E' was.

After many threads of debate on it I think much of the community came to the conclusion that Mister "E" is Lord Faren, aka Masked Roller "F", descendant of Lord Humphrey Faren aka Masked Rider "H".

 

There's alot of reasons behind these conclusions, including things like Marjory not sensing any necromantic power in E, but the main one is that Faren's cover as an idiotic noble fits it perfectly; he's always in the right place, at the right time. Like some kind of twisted version of Batman. Just imagine "Swordsmaster Faren" as a cloak & dagger Thief in your mind, and it'll start to make alot of sense.

 

Most of the other candidates were illusionists (Anise, Livia, and so on), who mostly don't fit the timing.

Edited November 7, 2021 by Hannelore.8153

[rylien.3824]

17 hours ago, Konig Des Todes.2086 said:

Given we got nothing on Magdaer or the Claw of the Khan-Ur despite returning to Ascalon, and nothing on the Sanguinary Blade despite returning to the Jormag plot, I'm doubtful, even though we saw krait in some EoD elite spec trailers.

I feel it's in the same pile as those three, Malyck, Menzies, and Zojja.

To note, dragon minions can be corrupted by other Elder Dragons, as evident by Subject Alpha and Kudu's Monster from CoE, and later in PoF, the two Corrupted Facets, and in S4, Subject Beta and Caithe. Sylvari "immunity" (read: they just die on the moment of corruption) is implied to come from the Dream of Dreams rather than their nature as purified dragon minions.

However, they're not inclined to do so for still-unclear reasons. But given Subject Alpha's behavior and abilities, it would seem a minion of sufficient intelligence corrupted by multiple Elder Dragons is capable of commanding all related armies, and do not seem to serve any specific dragon. They also tend to corrupt different things and in different methods - Primordus corrupt land, Mordremoth corrupts plants, and Jormag corrupts the willing, which would prevent them from "normally" corrupting other dragon minions in their own preferred methods.

 

Nah but don't look, it's just one more script inconsistency in the heap and not something chosen that they actually thought about. (They had to be immune at first, but they just completely threw it in the trash ... to convert Caithe into a useless smurf).

 

Don't expect an incredible scenario. Maybe it will be seen that don't know anything about it, but considering the state of the expansion, I would expect Icebrood Saga 2.0 quality (and worse). Already the dictatorial atmosphere seems to be doing a lot of work (to absent subscribers when you see the atmosphere of Shing Jea ... it is far from being the "alleged" nightmare, you would think you were facing a censored Disney without disney quality).

At the end I almost expect a rainbow and a kiss between Queen Jennah and Logan Thackeray ... or maybe who knows, at Kasmeer Meade and Marjory Delaqua's wedding ...
 

Edited November 7, 2021 by rylien.3824

[MithranArkanere.8957]

14 hours ago, radda.8920 said:

 

They're nagas, aren't they? I don't seem to have seen a krait

While naga appear to have an animation rig based on krait (like risen wraiths), in GW1 there was no known relation between the two.

 

In GW1, naga had more humanoid facial features with checkbones, relatively small mouths, and shorter snouts with nose-like bumbs. Many had horn-like spikes. 
In GW2, the naga seen have feather-like fins and more snake-like faces with long snouts and bigger mouths. 

 

Krait in GW1 used to have more snake-like and less monstrous heads, and they were able to shapeshift to adapt to the enemy, but nobody has seen them doing that anymore.   The Toxic Hybrid did mutate during the fight, but only scarlet knows how much krait was in that. For all we know it could have been a corrupted plant elemetnal or a mordrem protorype. 
Krait also used to have characteristic gold and scarlet feathers in all of their forms that no krait have anymore. 
In GW2, they instead have spikes and fins instead feathers, and some do have nose-like structures in their snouts, but only the Oratuss have a short snouts.

https://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Guild_Wars_Wiki:Projects/NPC_models/Factions#Naga
https://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Guild_Wars_Wiki:Projects/NPC_models/Eye_of_the_North#Krait

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Guild_Wars_2_Wiki:Projects/Shared_Model_Project/K#Krait
https://wiki.guildwars2.com/images/c/c5/EoD_screenshot_03.jpg

It's as if krait and naga had switched their basic design between the two games. 

We can only guess what happened there. 

Krait could have metamorphosed into a shape similar to naga and get stuck with that, or interbreed with naga and lose their ability to shapeshift, o get zapped with a jolt of magic that jumbled their genes. 
It could just be that the krait we knew were a tarsnished coast variant now extinct, and the new krait being deep sea ones with spikes and fins instead feathers. 
For all we know modern krait could even be just naga who think they are krait.  

Or you could consider the story of GW1 as coming from an 'unreliable narrator', like an ancient storybook and blame all inconsistencies on that, like GW1's giants looking more like GW2's ogres. 
From the point of view of a GW2 character, all that happened in GW1 would be a story. A tale of old. Like the tales you'd hear when talking to Kenden Baruch and company, or the people north of Plaza of Kormir. 
From that point of view, you can assume the descriptions of krait were exaggerations and they could never actually shapeshift, and completely get rid of the inconsistency.
 

Quote

Little is known about the elusive krait, but a few witnesses describe an army of slithering, serpentine warriors that seem able to transform in the middle of battle into numerous—and much more dangerous—forms. The reports are incomplete at best, as survivors of these encounters are often too hysterical to recall any salient details.

Of course there's always the boring and anodyne "IT'S JUst A CHaNge iN Art STYLe". 
But no one in their right mind would give the time of the day to that nonsense when guessing crazy stuff is much more fun and productive.

But one thing is for sure: what we are going to see in EoD are indeed naga. 
What's exactly those 'naga' are now and what relation do they have to the past naga or to krait we may never know, but naga they are nonetheless. 

[Tiffany.8216]

On 11/5/2021 at 10:47 PM, Aedil.1296 said:

Yasss, that one on top of Fort trinity that function as a protection from the risen and apparently as energy source. During personal story we stole it from the kraits which they stole it as well from somewhere in the deeps.... Do you guys know anything more on this fascinating object? On the wiki there's not much tbh. 

The stuff on the wiki (and the story instances it's mentioned in) is about all we know. My personal theory is that it's a divine artifact related to one of the Six (potentially Abaddon, god of water and secrets), since we have established lore saying dragon magic and divine magic don't mix well. 

 

As others have said, cross-corruption by Elder Dragons IS possible which means 1) either the krait orb is unrelated entirely to dragons, or 2) it was modified in some way. Or both; perhaps it's not a divine artifact but it was modified with divine magic.

 

I do REALLY hope they cover this in EoD. They probably won't but that would be amazing.

[PseudoNewb.5468]

5 hours ago, Sajuuk Khar.1509 said:

Gorrik says nothing of the sort in regards to the icebrood. His exact dialogue about the Icebrood is(since I can't find it on the wiki here is a screenshot)

https://i.imgur.com/TvIBcZN.jpg

In fact, his next dialogue option down even states that Jormag's death DIDN'T undo Jormag's ice instantly

https://i.imgur.com/89yCio4.jpg

 

I can sympathize that things can get confusing at times. But, Jormag's frozen refers to the people encased in weird ice crystals that you see being made in the Champions mission at Lake Doric. So they are unrelated to the icebrood corruption. The frozen icicles look quite different from Icebrood corruption, so I suspect there may be some unknown difference related to why that magic hasn't dissipated.

Just the fact that the Icebrood where physically injured by Jormgs death is abnormal from what we have seen of other dragon minions. Even Primordu's minions dissipating is odd. But I think it is well understood that those injuries are occurring because something is reversing the dragon corruption. So you have once corrupt flesh returning normal. This happens not only to Ryland but Bangar too.

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Leivas#Dialogue

Specifically stating that the injuries are caused after the release of corruption. So it seems that these injuries and deaths are occurring  to the Icebrood because Jormag's corruption is being "released."

Edited November 7, 2021 by PseudoNewb.5468

[Sajuuk Khar.1509]

52 minutes ago, PseudoNewb.5468 said:

I can sympathize that things can get confusing at times. But, Jormag's frozen refers to the people encased in weird ice crystals that you see being made in the Champions mission at Lake Doric. So they are unrelated to the icebrood corruption. The frozen icicles look quite different from Icebrood corruption, so I suspect there may be some unknown difference related to why that magic hasn't dissipated.

Just the fact that the Icebrood where physically injured by Jormgs death is abnormal from what we have seen of other dragon minions. Even Primordu's minions dissipating is odd. But I think it is well understood that those injuries are occurring because something is reversing the dragon corruption. So you have once corrupt flesh returning normal. This happens not only to Ryland but Bangar too.

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Leivas#Dialogue

Specifically stating that the injuries are caused after the release of corruption. So it seems that these injuries and deaths are occurring  to the Icebrood because Jormag's corruption is being "released."

For one trying to say others are confused, you seem the most confused yourself.

1. Bangar wasn't a normally corrupted minion like other Icebrood. He was a unique Champion like Ryland, Caithe, and Braham were, and thus had similar reversions as those characters did when the Elder Dragons they were attached too died. Normal Icebrood did not have this happen, just like it didn't happen for any other dragon minion.
2. Primordus' minions didn't dissipate. Gorrik says they went out, not that they dissipated. Those are two entirely different things.
3. We have seen this effect in-game already. Back at the end of the "Flashpoint" release, when Balthazar used Taimi's machine on Primordus, all of the Destroyers in the volcano just stopped moving because their connection to Primordus had been interrupted by Baltahzar's actions. They did not dissipate from this action however, just "shut down" so to speak.
4. Both Primordus and Jormag's minions doing this, while the other Elder Dragon's minions didn't, makes sense.
5. Unlike the other dragons, Primordus did not corrupt living things. His minions were all artificially created puppets of pure rock and magma. They had no original mind to begin with, and were just vessels for Primordus' conciseness/power. It makes sense they would stop functioning when their brain vanishes. Unlike other Elder Dragon minions which were living things previously, and still have something of a functional brain to keep them moving.
6. Jormag's minions died for similar reasons. While Jormag did corrupt living things, the most corrupted of its followers became giant creatures made almost entirely out of ice. Most of the fleshy bits they originally had were decayed or replaced with magical dragon ice, and thus wouldn't be able to sustain themselves once the magic powering the ice ran out. They did not just all instantly lose all of their icy bits however, for the same reason Jormag's frozen didn't, and for the same reason the giant magical glaciers didn't just melt and flood the Shiverpeaks the moment Jormag died.

Neither Jormag nor Primordus' minions are stated to have just lost their corruption. The Destroyers shut down since they no longer had a brain, and the Icebrood stop being able to live in bodies that lacked sufficient organic bits to keep them alive. The only three people who lost their corruption were Braham, Ryland, and Bangar... but, as Caithe pointed out when it happened to her, they weren't corrupted, they were connected. A different state of being entirely.

Edited November 8, 2021 by Sajuuk Khar.1509

[Kayberz.5346]

One thing to note about the blue krait orb is that it is never explicitly stated to ward against elder dragon corruption specifically,  but rather that anything in its presence could not be raised from the dead and turned into risen, which in turn made it a ward against zhaitans corruption specifically 

 

There is a possibility that the actual properties of the krait orb have nothing to do with dragon magic or corruption but rather that it has some kind of effect on souls/spirits in its presence which indirectly prevented zhaitan from using the dead bodies that are near the orb

Edited November 8, 2021 by Kayberz.5346

[The Greyhawk.9107]

On 11/7/2021 at 2:13 AM, Hannelore.8153 said:

After many threads of debate on it I think much of the community came to the conclusion that Mister "E" is Lord Faren, aka Masked Roller "F", descendant of Lord Humphrey Faren aka Masked Rider "H".

 

There's alot of reasons behind these conclusions, including things like Marjory not sensing any necromantic power in E, but the main one is that Faren's cover as an idiotic noble fits it perfectly; he's always in the right place, at the right time. Like some kind of twisted version of Batman. Just imagine "Swordsmaster Faren" as a cloak & dagger Thief in your mind, and it'll start to make alot of sense.

 

Most of the other candidates were illusionists (Anise, Livia, and so on), who mostly don't fit the timing.

Frankly I don't quite find the Faren theory convincing (e.g. he doesn't really seem to be doing any "Right place right time" at all) but more importantly I'm not interested in"community conclusions" of what theory is correct: I want the kitten game to pick this thread back up and give us a canon reveal.

On 11/7/2021 at 1:33 AM, Konig Des Todes.2086 said:

Not that you'd care to listen to me in any of this.

 

20 hours ago, Sajuuk Khar.1509 said:

I would listen, if your comments weren't blatantly contradicted in-game by dialogue that takes only a basic elementary school level of reading comprehension to understand.

Dear GOD in Heaven I wish the two of you would just ignore each other.

[Randulf.7614]

1 minute ago, The Greyhawk.9107 said:

Frankly I don't quite find the Faren theory convincing (e.g. he doesn't really seem to be doing any "Right place right time" at all) but more importantly I'm not interested in"community conclusions" of what theory is correct: I want the kitten game to pick this thread back up and give us a canon reveal.

 

Dear GOD in Heaven I wish the two of you would just ignore each other.

I agree with this last sentence. This silly rivalry and one up game just derails and devalues the discussions in the forum. There is no need for insults and comments about reading comprehension of another poster etc is just disgusting. No need for it at all.