d/d Catalyst in sPvP not so popular but...

[greedywholesome.9081]

I very much enjoyed playing it. Hammer, I will never understand as it feels so clunky but after spending some time on d/d cata, I'd say I prefer it over fire weaver due to its direct damage. I main mesmer but have always enjoyed playing ele. On mesmer I've always favored power over condi. Necro, not so much, lol, if I play it, I go on reaper.

 

The game play is quite fast with d/d cata and it's far more effortful and less forgiving than the cele d/d core of old. Often in game, during beta 4, I'd be the only one on catalyst out of 10 players. 

 

The spec is far from perfect but it was fun to try something different, a bit more challenging but rewarding. Hopefully, the trait doesn't get nerfed and if anything, core ele needs a bit of a buff along with mesmer and warrior. I know how it is to have your main class gutted. 

 

So, ele mains, how did it feel to revert back to weaver after playing with the updated catalyst spec (pvp)?

[Downstate.4697]

It felt boring. Only 2 builds work and its just different flavor of existing builds. Shows how meaningless the spec is

[Shiyo.3578]

7 hours ago, FrownyClown.8402 said:

It felt boring. Only 2 builds work and its just different flavor of existing builds. Shows how meaningless the spec is

Yeah, it's just base d/d ele +1....

Not what elite specs are intended to be.

Edited December 6, 2021 by Shiyo.3578

[Stallic.2397]

51 minutes ago, Shiyo.3578 said:

Yeah, it's just base d/d ele +1....

Not what elite specs are intended to be.

 

A big part of me is happy with D/D Catalyst. A lot of the suggestions the Elem community made to buff elem was granted to catalyst instead. Example: the constant auras, the Stat boosts, the stab on auras. All community suggestions stretching back months ago.

 

Even though the traits are boring, they work. I just wish Hammer was more viable. It would give a new flavor to catalyst. But so many people are playing D/D catalyst already cause it just feels inherently better. 

 

Fingers crossed they rework the weapon. I'm still dreaming about a Longbow Arcanest, but a buffed hammer would work too

[BigEvs.6971]

3 hours ago, Stallic.2397 said:

 

A big part of me is happy with D/D Catalyst. A lot of the suggestions the Elem community made to buff elem was granted to catalyst instead. Example: the constant auras, the Stat boosts, the stab on auras. All community suggestions stretching back months ago.

 

Even though the traits are boring, they work. I just wish Hammer was more viable. It would give a new flavor to catalyst. But so many people are playing D/D catalyst already cause it just feels inherently better. 

 

Fingers crossed they rework the weapon. I'm still dreaming about a Longbow Arcanest, but a buffed hammer would work too

Yeah D/D felt like the strongest it's been since Pre-HoT with Cata. I still want Hammer buffed and some more inspiration put into one of the traitlines, but I can't act like I didn't enjoy D/D feeling good again.

[Arheundel.6451]

Is it really that much stronger than old cele d/d ? In the end all cata d/d does is to add a 10-20% to well known hard hitting skills and some additional boon uptime, I would be as excited as the rest if the sphere fields would at least apply some condis.....but heya that would send the reddit golem benchmark crowd in a frenzy and we can't have that can we?!

The new sphere is certainly much better than before and the block utility is amazing for eles, so while cata d/d is usable now.....let's not forget that we're talking about ele and Anet so.....we all know that down the line that block utility will see a 15-20s cd increase, reduce stat gain from empowerment and some other nerf that will launch ele back in the gutter it is now

For as long as core ele suck...a few nerfs is all that is needed to destroy a gimmick, do you all remember how popular was fire weaver few months after launch? Anet immediately killed it by increasing CD , removing the vital stability trait and killing the burning output by over 60%.

After the 2-3 nerfs which ofc will come, all we will be left is...same old core ele and shaky foundations.

Yeah I am part of the crowd which see things for what they are and don't buy in all the hype, created just to make you bring out the wallet.

There have been 0 improvements to core ele in years and this cata d/d is yet another gimmick that will be nerfed down the rabbit hole...like weaver before it.

Edited December 6, 2021 by Arheundel.6451

[TrollingDemigod.3041]

51 minutes ago, Arheundel.6451 said:

Is it really that much stronger than old cele d/d ? In the end all cata d/d does is to add a 10-20% to well known hard hitting skills and some additional boon uptime, I would be as excited as the rest if the sphere fields would at least apply some condis.....but heya that would send the reddit golem benchmark crowd in a frenzy and we can't have that can we?!

The new sphere is certainly much better than before and the block utility is amazing for eles, so while cata d/d is usable now.....let's not forget that we're talking about ele and Anet so.....we all know that down the line that block utility will see a 15-20s cd increase, reduce stat gain from empowerment and some other nerf that will launch ele back in the gutter it is now

For as long as core ele suck...a few nerfs is all that is needed to destroy a gimmick, do you all remember how popular was fire weaver few months after launch? Anet immediately killed it by increasing CD , removing the vital stability trait and killing the burning output by over 60%.

After the 2-3 nerfs which ofc will come, all we will be left is...same old core ele and shaky foundations.

Yeah I am part of the crowd which see things for what they are and don't buy in all the hype, created just to make you bring out the wallet.

There have been 0 improvements to core ele in years and this cata d/d is yet another gimmick that will be nerfed down the rabbit hole...like weaver before it.

But grimjack said that Craptalyst is top kek, so it must be truth, since he's #1 Wever playa in kitten wold! Also also roul said it's 12/10 on golem benchmark, so Craptalyst is top kek! SO YOU MUST BE WRONG !111111!!111!! 🤡/s
Funnily enough, core ele d/d got the buffs that community has been asked for long time now, some unique mechanic "f5" that would make it different from both Tempest and Weaver, though A-net called it Catalyst elite specialization and added some random trait line that does nothing beside stat stick boost and some meme utilities.
We should just praise the lord for how benevolent he is toward Ele community. :')

[GLOR.2489]

28 minutes ago, TrollingDemigod.3041 said:

But grimjack said that Craptalyst is top kek, so it must be truth, since he's #1 Wever playa in kitten wold! Also also roul said it's 12/10 on golem benchmark, so Craptalyst is top kek! SO YOU MUST BE WRONG !111111!!111!! 🤡/s
Funnily enough, core ele d/d got the buffs that community has been asked for long time now, some unique mechanic "f5" that would make it different from both Tempest and Weaver, though A-net called it Catalyst elite specialization and added some random trait line that does nothing beside stat stick boost and some meme utilities.
We should just praise the lord for how benevolent he is toward Ele community. :')

  Meme utilities !? We literally have an elite that reset CD's... We have a block of 3 sec that gives a 3.000 barrier... We have instantaneous break stun + super speed + 100% energy regen... Even in Pve we have extra hits for insane burst rotation increase... And the best part is that if you cast all that in your sphere (which is rather easy now that they are instantaneously cast) you get CD's reduction !!   

[Avatara.1042]

31 minutes ago, GLOR.2489 said:

  Meme utilities !? We literally have an elite that reset CD's... We have a block of 3 sec that gives a 3.000 barrier... We have instantaneous break stun + super speed + 100% energy regen... Even in Pve we have extra hits for insane burst rotation increase... And the best part is that if you cast all that in your sphere (which is rather easy now that they are instantaneously cast) you get CD's reduction !!   

Did you REALLY just defend the elite...?

[Flori.2194]

6 minutes ago, Avatara.1042 said:

Did you REALLY just defend the elite...?

Some people really love that meme of an elite, even CMC himself. Instead of just switching attunements and cast a few other skills we can now cast a few of the same skills again... once... every 90 seconds... instead of having Tornado for PvP, FGS for WvW or some other kittening good elite skill that ele doesn't even have in the first place besides those two... Well, maybe it's not that bad under those circumstances...

[Arheundel.6451]

42 minutes ago, Flori.2194 said:

Some people really love that meme of an elite, even CMC himself. Instead of just switching attunements and cast a few other skills we can now cast a few of the same skills again... once... every 90 seconds... instead of having Tornado for PvP, FGS for WvW or some other kittening good elite skill that ele doesn't even have in the first place besides those two... Well, maybe it's not that bad under those circumstances...

The elite is the most stupid thing I have ever seen..but didn't even want to talk about it, was testing cata d/d and guess was much more fun than previous beta but yeah....let's all stop for a moment and think about it.....we wait 90s to recover the full CD not of all attunements at least...but a single one and we call that an elite, I am trying my best not to be a downer on everybody with how excited they are with cata d/d but yeah...let's be realistic here:

 

1) No boonrip

2) No CC stunlock

3) No range pressure above 600 range with similar levels of other professions 

 

This elite is just a bone thrown in our direction to shut us up and people are happy with the bread crumbles

[BigEvs.6971]

8 hours ago, Arheundel.6451 said:

The elite is the most stupid thing I have ever seen..but didn't even want to talk about it, was testing cata d/d and guess was much more fun than previous beta but yeah....let's all stop for a moment and think about it.....we wait 90s to recover the full CD not of all attunements at least...but a single one and we call that an elite, I am trying my best not to be a downer on everybody with how excited they are with cata d/d but yeah...let's be realistic here:

 

1) No boonrip

2) No CC stunlock

3) No range pressure above 600 range with similar levels of other professions 

 

This elite is just a bone thrown in our direction to shut us up and people are happy with the bread crumbles

You need to chill dude. You're not trying THAT hard not to be a downer, you went to like one of the few threads in the ele forums that isn't trashing Catalyst in the OP to act like you're saying something different than what's already been said in the feedback sticky and in several other threads. In fact this thread is where I've posted pretty much my only positive feedback about Catalyst. 

 

We know it's jank, we know it's uninspired in its design overall. D/D cata doesn't need to be broken good for a possible return to be kinda exciting, considering the weaponset has been more or less dormant for half a decade. 

[Puck.3697]

13 hours ago, TrollingDemigod.3041 said:

But grimjack said that Craptalyst is top kek, so it must be truth, since he's #1 Wever playa in kitten wold! Also also roul said it's 12/10 on golem benchmark, so Craptalyst is top kek! SO YOU MUST BE WRONG !111111!!111!! 🤡/s
Funnily enough, core ele d/d got the buffs that community has been asked for long time now, some unique mechanic "f5" that would make it different from both Tempest and Weaver, though A-net called it Catalyst elite specialization and added some random trait line that does nothing beside stat stick boost and some meme utilities.
We should just praise the lord for how benevolent he is toward Ele community. :')

Grimjack doesn't rly have a reason to incorrectly represent the proffession and tbh taking his word on it being good is the exact same as taking your word on it being bad. 

It's DPS was compared to other proffessions DPS on golems also. So it's fairly compared in that stance. 

It's fine to not like the elite, or feel the elite is uninspired or not what the community wanted. But trying to say it's balance wise bad is based on it compared to other speccs (and not the ones that need nerfing) 

 

[Flori.2194]

1 hour ago, Daddy.8125 said:

Grimjack doesn't rly have a reason to incorrectly represent the proffession

 

He doesn't really have a reason to white knight it either and yet here we are... 🤷‍♂️

[Arheundel.6451]

1 hour ago, Daddy.8125 said:

Grimjack doesn't rly have a reason to incorrectly represent the proffession and tbh taking his word on it being good is the exact same as taking your word on it being bad. 

It's DPS was compared to other proffessions DPS on golems also. So it's fairly compared in that stance. 

It's fine to not like the elite, or feel the elite is uninspired or not what the community wanted. But trying to say it's balance wise bad is based on it compared to other speccs (and not the ones that need nerfing) 

 

A profession should not be balanced around the performances of a single or small group of individuals...especially because every other profession is balanced so that even an individual with basic cognitive skills can do well on them, but people like Grimjack believe that in a game with the skill level of my little pony we should have a subset of professions working based on Doom eternal Nightmare mode, can you see the discrepancy?

[Puck.3697]

22 minutes ago, Flori.2194 said:

He doesn't really have a reason to white knight it either and yet here we are... 

beleiving something good isnt white knighting.. for me to say Firebrand overperforms in PvE Content isnt me "White knighting" Firebrand.

14 minutes ago, Arheundel.6451 said:

A profession should not be balanced around the performances of a single or small group of individuals...especially because every other profession is balanced so that even an individual with basic cognitive skills can do well on them,

I kinda Want to see proof of this lmao. Last i checked the averages show Most players dont even make 25k DPS In Raids with litterally any proffession avaliable.. These speccs arent rebalanced around them at all realistically... they're balanced surrounding the Top end of players.

Proffessions should be balanced in conjunction to one another realistically. if 40k is the Top DPS... ele shouldnt do 60k DPS to ensure the Average Players are getting the high DPS, that'd be Ridiculous when it comes to looking at the top level performances and would Break Fights Massively to give proffessions this treatment kitten it'd make Power creep Even worse for them.. the game would litterally turn into a Joke.

14 minutes ago, Arheundel.6451 said:

we should have a subset of professions working based on Doom eternal Nightmare mode,

not really.. because its a MMORPG.. no MMORPG makes "harder to play proffessions" do higher DPS Then the rest based on difficulty.. because MMORPGS are generally built around accessibility, which this sorta implementation would vastly reduce overall accessibility of the average players.

Difficulty is Generally chosen in MMORPGS because people enjoy more complex gameplay. and while yeah agreed Weaver is severely flawed as of currently.. thats not down to this problem though.. thats because anet keep listening to a benchmark which isnt Repeatable in a Real situation a very different problem.

14 minutes ago, Arheundel.6451 said:

can you see the discrepancy?

Not really. because id argue the hardest part of Elementalist is Realistically 1 Specific build and Surviving a Encounter.. which i can just say Buff Elementalists Core sustain to fix that issue.

Im NGL... i do more DPS with my Weaver then i can do with my DH and theres a Reason for that.. Every rotation in the game gets easier the more u play it.. because i Play Elementalist ALOT and barely play my DH At all, i do 30k DPS Parses with Ele and a 19k DPS Benchmarks with DH.

pushing buttons in a Rotation is a Repeatitive Job. one that over time ur muscle memory overtakes on, which over time makes every rotation easy to play.

D/F Condi Weaver is the exception here.. primarily because the rotation is Severely high risk as the continous Movement the build causes Puts u in massive danger if u dont Forshadow Upcoming mechanics as u could through urself directly into a AoE Field and more making the Specc require ALOT more knowledge to even try pull off.

however Power and hybrid weaver arent near as difficult to play realistically. Theres someone in Snowcrows Discord Playing Power Elementalist via their Nose in a attempt to prove weaver isnt as hard to play and as far as i know hes getting pretty good at it lol.

Edited December 7, 2021 by Daddy.8125

[greedywholesome.9081]

Well the only reason why the d/d catalyst "SEMI" works in pvp despite the arduous effort is due to the creative mind of the ele community. Without a doubt, core ele needs more buff. The only trait line I'm okay with is Arcane. The catalyst elite skill needs a shorter CD and/or a buff. 

 

Meanwhile in necroland....there are complaints on how squishy the harbinger is 😕 

[Pimsley.3681]

Proud ele main here and I'm still unsatisfied with the development of the catalyst and that annoying hammer. 

Yeah fine, I sorta agree d/d cata can work especially if you're fast and move move move constantly. Even better if you play the smallest, skinniest Asura and give in an annoying name. 

 

Im not defending how good the Catalyst d/d is. kitten needs a buff. All Im saying is that it take 10x the effort to get ok results. After 10 games on it, I literally had to soak my left hand on warm water. If played properly even solo, it can carry but boy it's exhausting to play. 

Catalyst Asura Rat to Bite Your Socks

 

Necros really complain about Harbinber? What's next, Core Necro underpowered?

[Pimsley.3681]

Dont get me wrong, I play necro core when I need to rest my left hand and use it minimally 🙂

And Ranger...lul

Edited December 7, 2021 by Pimsley.3681
added Ranger coz Pets OP

[Mattmatt.4962]

This topic is basically discussing if DD cata is good or not.

 

That come and go with the patchs flow.

 

So i raise the question: should we discuss viability or need ?

I do think its viable (good) but i really dont think Ele needs catalyst. Catalyst is litteraly just buffed core ele. Is that what we need for expansion ? Something that utterly do nothing for build (even gameplay) diversity ? 

 

PS: Regarding harbringer, i have no idea if its good or not, i did a bunch of duels in WVW (not the same environment) and i won them all with DD Weaver

Edited December 7, 2021 by Mattmatt.4962

[Pimsley.3681]

36 minutes ago, Mattmatt.4962 said:

This topic is basically discussing if DD cata is good or not.

 

That come and go with the patchs flow.

 

So i raise the question: should we discuss viability or need ?

I do think its viable (good) but i really dont think Ele needs catalyst. Catalyst is litteraly just buffed core ele. Is that what we need for expansion ? Something that utterly do nothing for build (even gameplay) diversity ? 

 

PS: Regarding harbringer, i have no idea if its good or not, i did a bunch of duels in WVW (not the same environment) and i won them all with DD Weaver

 

True, patches dictate the viability of certain specs. As of now, it can be viable. Is it needed? Hmm, good question because we haven't had time to establish that. From my few days experience, d/d cata had good mobility and disengage. But, you really not for even for second stand still when opponents are around. the F5 boons help a lot  as well but it must be timed properly while you are dancing and playing the piano.

 

Relative to other classes, it's extremely high effort. I almost don't mind that if it gets a bit more of a buff. 

 

Harbinger is not as squishy but it can do horrendous condi damage and dps. 

 

All in all, I just want the elementalist to have a role/need/purpose in PvP

[Downstate.4697]

4 hours ago, Mattmatt.4962 said:

This topic is basically discussing if DD cata is good or not.

 

That come and go with the patchs flow.

 

So i raise the question: should we discuss viability or need ?

I do think its viable (good) but i really dont think Ele needs catalyst. Catalyst is litteraly just buffed core ele. Is that what we need for expansion ? Something that utterly do nothing for build (even gameplay) diversity ? 

 

PS: Regarding harbringer, i have no idea if its good or not, i did a bunch of duels in WVW (not the same environment) and i won them all with DD Weaver

Catalyst in pvp could be a great team fighter if the spheres debilitated enemies. Pulsing cripple, chill, daze on initial placement and maybe pulsing boon removal.  The meta is going to shift towards team fights in EoD and boons will become a lot more important. The quickness could become a staple for burst combos and securing kills. 

[Puck.3697]

3 hours ago, FrownyClown.8402 said:

Catalyst in pvp could be a great team fighter if the spheres debilitated enemies. Pulsing cripple, chill, daze on initial placement and maybe pulsing boon removal.  The meta is going to shift towards team fights in EoD and boons will become a lot more important. The quickness could become a staple for burst combos and securing kills. 

I'd imagine that'd be screeched as overpowered very quickly and cause alot of nerfing to other parts of ele to balance out.

Pulsing 5 man CC would make ele stronger then every other option by a mile in this regard. 

Kalia once had a pulsing CC ability. It got nerfed. Which is why kalia ren isn't run anymore. It'd likely have the same fate for ele 

Edited December 7, 2021 by Daddy.8125

[Downstate.4697]

10 minutes ago, Daddy.8125 said:

I'd imagine that'd be screeched as overpowered very quickly and cause alot of nerfing to other parts of ele to balance out.

Pulsing 5 man CC would make ele stronger then every other option by a mile in this regard. 

Kalia once had a pulsing CC ability. It got nerfed. Which is why kalia ren isn't run anymore. It'd likely have the same fate for ele 

Not pulsing, just initial impact. Maybe they all should be inital impact to make it different from tempest.

[Puck.3697]

43 minutes ago, FrownyClown.8402 said:

Not pulsing, just initial impact. Maybe they all should be inital impact to make it different from tempest.

Aaah then that'd prolly be closer to being ok.