This profession needs a rework

[EpicName.4523]

Elementalist is the lowest health, squishiest profession in the game. The original concept was of a ranged caster which mutated into some huge mess of a melee button masher. And for all the difficulty of the button mashing, for all the survivability problems, there is no pay-off. You press several low impact abilities to do the same thing other professions do with one. One trap from a dragon hunter can do more damage than several damage skills of an elementalist, for example.

 

Additionally, the removal of the ability to switch weapons in combat means that if you are ranged, you will deal very little damage and if you are melee, you are at a huge risk of dying. It is not fun.

 

My suggestion is simple. If we cannot switch weapons in combat, because that is clearly overpowered...oh boy, just make each attunement more specialized. 

 

Fire should be all about condi damage with very little direct damage, with the bleeds from earth being turned into burning.

Water should be all about healing and defensive buffs, many of which are now also in earth.

Air should be all RANGED abilities since we cannot switch to ranged in combat and vice versa.

Earth should be focused on hard hitting, power based skills.

 

Basically, instead of mixing several attunements and waiting for cooldowns, to both heal and defensively buff yourself(earth and water), you have one attunement for that.

Instead of constantly switching between fire and earth to deal condi damage, you have one attunement to get the job done. This reduces the annoying button mashing, where you press several abilities to do the same thing, but since there are so many of them, their individual effects are kinda pathetic. Balance?

And finally, in case you get low on health or simply prefer to blast from a distance, you can go air (ranged) without feeling constantly kitten, unlike some other professions.

 

[AliamRationem.5172]

Where's the "kitten no" button when you need it? Just go play necro, rev, or guard like everyone else. It sounds like what you want to play. 

Ele mains play the class for the complexity, the attunement swaps and large skill set.  Just fix things like staff, underperforming traits and utilities, conjures, maybe add some unique group utility and kitten nerf these do-everything abominations that make normal classes like ele feel irrelevant.

[Flori.2194]

13 minutes ago, AliamRationem.5172 said:

Just fix things like staff, underperforming traits and utilities, conjures, maybe add some unique group utility and kitten nerf these do-everything abominations that make normal classes like ele feel irrelevant.

That's... basically a rework combined with proper balance patches... And we don't get either, so why should we, as a player base, get both at the same time? #unrealisticanetstandards

[AliamRationem.5172]

14 minutes ago, Flori.2194 said:

That's... basically a rework combined with proper balance patches... And we don't get either, so why should we, as a player base, get both at the same time? #unrealisticanetstandards

I don't know what definition of "rework" you're using, but I think fixing outdated weapons and utilities and applying some basic balancing to grossly overperforming specs are well within the boundaries of "normal" balancing.

[Infusion.7149]

This thread is a like a half baked rant. There's no rationale to it other than "I said so".

Bleeds turning into burning for example makes zero sense ; same thing goes for making air the ranged traitline or making earth about power damage. Right now fire+earth are the main condi attunements.

[Shiyo.3578]

Ele doesn't need a rework. Weaver is an incredibly well designed spec and Sword is a masterfully crafted weapon.

Tempest, staff, and Catalyst, however, do need to be reworked.

[Ace.1784]

 

1 hour ago, Shiyo.3578 said:

Ele doesn't need a rework. Weaver is an incredibly well designed spec and Sword is a masterfully crafted weapon.

Tempest, staff, and Catalyst, however, do need to be reworked.

I think Tempest is also in a pretty good space. There is a condi, power, and support build for tempest and they all do pretty decently or excel at their role.

[Jski.6180]

I do not agree with how you want to changes things but i do agreen ele needs a major rework.

Bleed is not enofe for a condi dmg on its own if you want to look at condi problems on ele.

Protection swiftness fury might and vigor is not enofe if you want to look at ele problems for boon support.

Staff nerfs are way too much and anet inability to programed "large" bodily combat is no excuse to keep the staff as week as it is.

Core ele has been over nerfed to make tempest and weaver "balanced" and the soon to come cat will have the same issues.

[Downstate.4697]

Ele went to kitten when they nerfed the damage and turned dagger into a hybrid weapon

[nobleboivin.4102]

I agree that it needs a rework.  Way too squishy and everything else that was said here.  I'd love be able to switch from melee to range in combat. 

[Jski.6180]

I would also love to see aura reworked to where the caster of the aura still holds the on hit effect of thoughts auras. So if you put a shocking aura on someone it will trigger lighting rod if they are hit. It would show the real effect of the ele and open a lot of added effects that should be high impact in a fight but are often no impact.

[Einlanzer.1627]

On 12/11/2021 at 10:15 AM, EpicName.4523 said:

Elementalist is the lowest health, squishiest profession in the game. The original concept was of a ranged caster which mutated into some huge mess of a melee button masher. And for all the difficulty of the button mashing, for all the survivability problems, there is no pay-off. You press several low impact abilities to do the same thing other professions do with one. One trap from a dragon hunter can do more damage than several damage skills of an elementalist, for example.

 

Additionally, the removal of the ability to switch weapons in combat means that if you are ranged, you will deal very little damage and if you are melee, you are at a huge risk of dying. It is not fun.

 

My suggestion is simple. If we cannot switch weapons in combat, because that is clearly overpowered...oh boy, just make each attunement more specialized. 

 

Fire should be all about condi damage with very little direct damage, with the bleeds from earth being turned into burning.

Water should be all about healing and defensive buffs, many of which are now also in earth.

Air should be all RANGED abilities since we cannot switch to ranged in combat and vice versa.

Earth should be focused on hard hitting, power based skills.

 

Basically, instead of mixing several attunements and waiting for cooldowns, to both heal and defensively buff yourself(earth and water), you have one attunement for that.

Instead of constantly switching between fire and earth to deal condi damage, you have one attunement to get the job done. This reduces the annoying button mashing, where you press several abilities to do the same thing, but since there are so many of them, their individual effects are kinda pathetic. Balance?

And finally, in case you get low on health or simply prefer to blast from a distance, you can go air (ranged) without feeling constantly kitten, unlike some other professions.

 

 

It does need a rework, but the proper solution is literally the opposite. The attunements are too specialized currently in the game, which makes it so that, even though you are pressured to attunement swap on a regular basis, you lose a ton of damage by doing so.

The attunements in fact need to be made more generalized so that attunement swapping can more closely resemble weapon swapping, and melee-oriented weapons need to offer both damage AND defensive utility given that elementalists are so fragile. 

Edited December 13, 2021 by Einlanzer.1627

[AliamRationem.5172]

3 hours ago, Einlanzer.1627 said:

 

It does need a rework, but the proper solution is literally the opposite. The attunements are too specialized currently in the game, which makes it so that, even though you are pressured to attunement swap on a regular basis, you lose a ton of damage by doing so.

The attunements in fact need to be made more generalized so that attunement swapping can more closely resemble weapon swapping, and melee-oriented weapons need to offer both damage AND defensive utility given that elementalists are so fragile. 

This could possibly be achieved without reworking the class by adding new weapons rather than creating a whole new specialization.  That way it would be usable by all current and future elementalist specs. 

[Shiyo.3578]

On 12/11/2021 at 2:53 PM, Vinteros Asteano.1209 said:

 

I think Tempest is also in a pretty good space. There is a condi, power, and support build for tempest and they all do pretty decently or excel at their role.

It's meant too be a support not a dps, and it can't play either in pvp modes just a bunker due to being so squishy.

[Paradoxoglanis.1904]

Ele shouldnt be played by sitting in 1 attunement. Anet just needs to go over old traits and skills for all classes. Though at this point its too late for them to go back on power creep, just look at reaper, scrapper, FB, scourge, mirage, renegade. They all have insane amounts of aoe with ridiculous self sustain and there is no way anet is going to go back on that.

The stupid thing on anets part is they have seen what ele with sustain could be like when they bugged weaver barrier. Even though it wasnt any stronger than scrapper barrier or rev battle scars they still decided that ele shouldnt get any sustain on dps builds.

[Puck.3697]

11 hours ago, Paradoxoglanis.1904 said:

Ele shouldnt be played by sitting in 1 attunement. Anet just needs to go over old traits and skills for all classes. Though at this point its too late for them to go back on power creep, just look at reaper, scrapper, FB, scourge, mirage, renegade. They all have insane amounts of aoe with ridiculous self sustain and there is no way anet is going to go back on that.

The stupid thing on anets part is they have seen what ele with sustain could be like when they bugged weaver barrier. Even though it wasnt any stronger than scrapper barrier or rev battle scars they still decided that ele shouldnt get any sustain on dps builds.

Reaper? 

You reliese it has 0 active defense because of shroud? And it's all reapers DPS aswell as unable to receive healing while in shroud?.... I wouldn't realistically call reaper high survivability in organised PvE. 

I wouldn't call reaper high sustain realistically 😂 

It's not too late either. It would require a large balance patch sure. But they can still reverse it realistically providing they're willing to rework some mechanics to be balancable (i.e FB tomes and the ludicrous Condi burst issues concerning scourge and renegade) 

Saying that. EoDs elites are massively not power crept realistically and people are screeching over em so maybe Anet will take that as a hint we don't want it reverted 😂 

 

Edited December 15, 2021 by Daddy.8125

[Paradoxoglanis.1904]

6 minutes ago, Daddy.8125 said:

Reaper? 

You reliese it has 0 active defense because of shroud? And it's all reapers DPS aswell as unable to receive healing while in shroud?.... I wouldn't realistically call reaper high survivability in organised PvE. 

I wouldn't call reaper high sustain realistically 😂 

It's not too late either. It would require a large balance patch sure. But they can still reverse it realistically providing they're willing to rework some mechanics to be balancable (i.e FB tomes and the ludicrous Condi burst issues concerning scourge and renegade) 

Saying that. EoDs elites are massively not power crept realistically and people are screeching over em so maybe Anet will take that as a hint we don't want it reverted 😂 

 

19k base hp, 13k shroud with 50% damage reduction, 20% more temporary dr from shroud 3. And in open world you can take non-dps options like blood magic or minions without losing too much damage and gaining ridiculous survivability. There is a reason why reaper is the easiest pug dps to play.

[Puck.3697]

5 hours ago, Paradoxoglanis.1904 said:

19k base hp, 13k shroud with 50% damage reduction, 20% more temporary dr from shroud 3. And in open world you can take non-dps options like blood magic or minions without losing too much damage and gaining ridiculous survivability. There is a reason why reaper is the easiest pug dps to play.

Yeah in open world content defintly. 

In raids however your gonna do no DPS if your using shroud for survivability 😂 and your healers are about to boot you out the raid for making their lives difficult. 

Reapers considered good in pugs because it isn't as reliant on others to provide boon uptime. Not because of its difficulty 🤦 

No proffession is difficult to pug with lol. It's because other proffessions can't cover itself with boons like reapers capable of 🤦

I.e if you play Condi weaver. You lose a ton of DPS if you don't have good alacrity uptime because of your ultimate. I don't remember what it's called currently even tho I main ele 😂 

Elementalists problem is the polar opposite ofcourse. 

Elementalists have 0 sustain but tons of active sustain, but the game doesnt include the DPS loss you have using active sustain which is why people currently annoyed at elementalist realistically. It's a very fast spammy rotation with no moments to fit a sustain CD into without a DPS loss yet only does just as much DPS as everyone else. Which means in a real fight you do less damage in practice due to this.

It'd likely be fine to lift sword weaver to 42-43k because in a real fight itd never manage it for these reasons. 

And the dps loss from these things are pretty large it's just the threshold for DPS in a solo enviroment is really low. Prolly like 4/5k realistically. 

U go running into a high fractal or raid and go try using your shroud as a sustain tool, your gonna die as fast as ele and your DPS will be lower while at it 😂. 

This is why people are memeing on harbinger. Because it actually falls short in alot of areas in trade for its strengths... Reapers actually very well developed realistically. Shame they fell off the wagon so badly with scourge (design wise not power wise obviously.) 

Necromancer has been the disliked redhead child of PvE for years. Scourge wasn't even seen to be good by the community until that last major patch made it overpowered. 

Edited December 15, 2021 by Daddy.8125

[TrollingDemigod.3041]

1 hour ago, Paradoxoglanis.1904 said:

19k base hp, 13k shroud with 50% damage reduction, 20% more temporary dr from shroud 3. And in open world you can take non-dps options like blood magic or minions without losing too much damage and gaining ridiculous survivability. There is a reason why reaper is the easiest pug dps to play.

Alright, how many additional evades does it have from weapon, utility, shroud skills? How many invulns and/or block it have?
Reapers shroud also degenerate faster than core one, it doesn't also have any barrier in it's own kit. If it gets bonked that also means you lose shroud, which also reduces said "sustain". What happens if Reaper loses it's shroud? It only have 1 heal skill and maybe some pepe heals from Vampiric Pressence?
Hp isn't everything in this game, it needs much more to survive. Sustain from traits isn't as great as people try to make it out to be in long run.

[Puck.3697]

4 minutes ago, TrollingDemigod.3041 said:

Alright, how many additional evades does it have from weapon, utility, shroud skills? How many invulns and/or block it have?
Reapers shroud also degenerate faster than core one, it doesn't also have any barrier in it's own kit. If it gets bonked that also means you lose shroud, which also reduces said "sustain". What happens if Reaper loses it's shroud? It only have 1 heal skill and maybe some pepe heals from Vampiric Pressence?
Hp isn't everything in this game, it needs much more to survive. Sustain from traits isn't as great as people try to make it out to be in long run.

Pretty much this. 

People with the "hp is everything" mindset makes me laugh. There's a reason why most people who even make reaper after being told how amazingly easy it is. Get to HoT and still get themselves one shot 😂😂

Shroud isn't a enabler of just letting yourself get smacked by stuff 😂 it does require some brains to actually managing life force properly even if the rotation is much simpler then something like a Condi weaver 

 

[Paradoxoglanis.1904]

6 hours ago, TrollingDemigod.3041 said:

Alright, how many additional evades does it have from weapon, utility, shroud skills? How many invulns and/or block it have?
Reapers shroud also degenerate faster than core one, it doesn't also have any barrier in it's own kit. If it gets bonked that also means you lose shroud, which also reduces said "sustain". What happens if Reaper loses it's shroud? It only have 1 heal skill and maybe some pepe heals from Vampiric Pressence?
Hp isn't everything in this game, it needs much more to survive. Sustain from traits isn't as great as people try to make it out to be in long run.

Not sure when you would want to channel evades blocks and invuln in pve. What if other classes get bonked? What happens if they lose all their hp? I really dont get why you guys are arguing that reaper is bad in pve. Its been common knowledge for years that its one of the safest and easiest builds to play.

 

6 hours ago, Daddy.8125 said:

Pretty much this. 

People with the "hp is everything" mindset makes me laugh. There's a reason why most people who even make reaper after being told how amazingly easy it is. Get to HoT and still get themselves one shot 😂😂

Shroud isn't a enabler of just letting yourself get smacked by stuff 😂 it does require some brains to actually managing life force properly even if the rotation is much simpler then something like a Condi weaver 

 

Reaper can easily solo everything but meta events in HoT.

[Infusion.7149]

6 hours ago, Paradoxoglanis.1904 said:

Not sure when you would want to channel evades blocks and invuln in pve. What if other classes get bonked? What happens if they lose all their hp? I really dont get why you guys are arguing that reaper is bad in pve. Its been common knowledge for years that its one of the safest and easiest builds to play.

 

Reaper can easily solo everything but meta events in HoT.

You channel blocks on Deimos or any raid boss where there is CC that can get you killed. Hand Kiting on Deimos needs blocks/invuln/evade, it is a fundamental part of the role.

See
https://snowcrows.com/builds/ranger/soulbeast/handkite-soulbeast
https://snowcrows.com/builds/revenant/herald/hand-kite-herald
https://snowcrows.com/builds/warrior/spellbreaker/handkite-spellbreaker
https://snowcrows.com/builds/engineer/engineer/hand-kite-engineer   --- far less common

Another instance you would want channel evade/block is if you are tanking , especially on Xera which hits multiple times with confounding flurry or Qadim the Peerless which hits multiple times with Sapping Surge, Vale Guardian ports, or Gorseval which has a slam (Spectral Impact).

[Puck.3697]

7 hours ago, Paradoxoglanis.1904 said:

Not sure when you would want to channel evades blocks and invuln in pve. What if other classes get bonked? What happens if they lose all their hp? I really dont get why you guys are arguing that reaper is bad in pve. Its been common knowledge for years that its one of the safest and easiest builds to play

Looool. 

1) reaper is bad. It does 34k DPS lmfao. Scourge is just stronger in every way. 

2) Reapers won't be let into any high fractal or auite a few raids. Because it will take incidental damage. 

3) it's damage output relys on it not getting hit because shroud is over 70% of the elites damage output. 

4) when other proffessions get bonked? They don't if the players good because the quantity of active sustain they have. Reaper will be forced to take certain damage because it needs to use it's dodges when critical as it has nothing else. 

5) "safest and easiest builds" don't exist. If you mess up mechanics in a raid u die. It dont matter what proffession you play lol. 

Every proffessions forums seem to love to scream their neighbours are getting or easier ,😂 

Reaper is a build most people use for solo content and yes it's a very safe and sturdy solo option, but that doesn't rly repeat when the fact it's forced to take alot more DMG then other choices becomes the factor and the DPS hit is too much. 

 

 

Edited December 15, 2021 by Daddy.8125

[Puck.3697]

7 hours ago, Paradoxoglanis.1904 said:

Reaper can easily solo everything but meta events in HoT

Yes. I already stated. Reapers are very good at soloing content lol but solo and raid content is very different 

Either way no point derailing this thread further. 

[Paradoxoglanis.1904]

3 minutes ago, Daddy.8125 said:

Yes. I already stated. Reapers are very good at soloing content lol but solo and raid content is very different 

Either way no point derailing this thread further. 

😂😂😂🤢🤮🥶