Elementalist got lost in the game reworks

[Mell.4873]

I don't know the class feels left behind, combo fields are just not a thing anymore and aura don't really provide any meaningful buff. 

[Flori.2194]

14 hours ago, Mell.4873 said:

combo fields are just not a thing anymore

that's one of my biggest problems with catalyst: It's a pre-HoT thing, It's nice to have a combo from time to time but nothing you should focus your new e-spec on, 10 years after release with all the power creep that makes most of the combos useless or not very impactful...

[The Boz.2038]

Combos were *huge* in the "i can maintain almost five might constantly!" era of sub-10k DPS. Blasting a fire field was valuable before a single class could maintain max might on ten teammates constantly. A 100% projectile finisher increased your DPS by a fair percentage.

We have moved past that, but the design of this class has not. To think that both especs still act like fields and auras are at all relevant is... bizarre.

[Jski.6180]

They need to update the boons from blast and cc from leaps it would go a long way. A combo that dose the same thing as leap and blast is out dated.

[Downstate.4697]

Ele isnt the only profession with out of date mechanics. The entire game needs to be scrubbed and updated

[Borked.6824]

Attunements.  They're basically a self-inflicted tumor that you get to live with the rest of your life.

[Jski.6180]

12 hours ago, FrownyClown.8402 said:

Ele isnt the only profession with out of date mechanics. The entire game needs to be scrubbed and updated

We would still not get an real update more then once ever 2 years + more money dose not fix every thing this is Anet way of running there game. Abandon every thing and never look back on to the next "new" thing.

[Khalisto.5780]

kinda agree, why would lose time blasting fields when another class can give you the same effects with the pressing of one button

 

[Mell.4873]

On 12/18/2021 at 7:20 AM, FrownyClown.8402 said:

Ele isnt the only profession with out of date mechanics. The entire game needs to be scrubbed and updated

Most other classes don't have a core mechanic like combo fields or aura's behind an outdated system. I mean some of mesmer weapons are a bit clunky like no leap on sword 2 but it still usable since the core mechanic that being clones is fine. 

The most I can think of clunky weapons or skills, maybe some of Thief class can be a bit redundant at times but they have a use in group play if you know what you are doing. 

[The Boz.2038]

Engineer is still stuck in 2012, mostly, ranger pets are ranger pets, and a significant portion of the warrior's skillset is outdated, but Elementalist comfortably beats them by a wide margin in the whole Urgency Of Reworks area.

[Arheundel.6451]

On 12/17/2021 at 6:20 PM, FrownyClown.8402 said:

Ele isnt the only profession with out of date mechanics. The entire game needs to be scrubbed and updated

Hum...no..

1) revenant with the F5, ventari tablets, energy system, kalla, shortbow, off hand sword....

2) mesmer clones/phantasms

3) core necro shroud, scourge

4) engi with gyros and scrapper 

 

Ele is not the only one....It's the one with the most outdated weapons, traits and utilities 

[Junkpile.7439]

Waterfields and blast finishers sure are stronk survivability tools. I often blast waterfields when i use staff and my hp 🚀Like 500 hp.

Edited December 26, 2021 by Junkpile.7439

[Artemis.8034]

Why the heck cant ele swap weapons in combat? Everyone else does, it would go a long way to making the class fun to play.

[Infusion.7149]

1 hour ago, Artemis.8034 said:

Why the heck cant ele swap weapons in combat? Everyone else does, it would go a long way to making the class fun to play.

Because of 4 attunements.

Engineer can't swap weapons either , the difference is you aren't range locked for the most part which is why elementalist suffers far more.

For example if you run scrapper with a hammer you can use grenade/mortar , if you run holo with a sword you can run grenade/mortar, if you run core with a rifle you can run bomb kit for higher DPS in melee range.

Originally revenants couldn't weapon swap either.

Catalyst's hammer is a poor attempt to address this. For example on Wing 4 Deimos pre-event if you have 900 range you can hit the outer ring's chains without leaving the middle but 600 range cannot.

[Jski.6180]

1 hour ago, Infusion.7149 said:

Because of 4 attunements.

Engineer can't swap weapons either , the difference is you aren't range locked for the most part which is why elementalist suffers far more.

For example if you run scrapper with a hammer you can use grenade/mortar , if you run holo with a sword you can run grenade/mortar, if you run core with a rifle you can run bomb kit for higher DPS in melee range.

Originally revenants couldn't weapon swap either.

Catalyst's hammer is a poor attempt to address this. For example on Wing 4 Deimos pre-event if you have 900 range you can hit the outer ring's chains without leaving the middle but 600 range cannot.

Something a lot of ppl seem to get mixed up its not about the number of skills but the ability of how many skills you can use in a given time. Its the long cast times and "lock outs" that plag the ele class more then number of skills. You could have 20 atuments each one having millions of skills and its all for not because you can only use one skill at a time. Even wepon skill swaps are not that "useful" as long as the skills take a sizable time to cast. So just having more because of atunements or even kits or having swaps dose not make up for the state of the current classes.

Its all about cast time and hammer has some problems with this much like staff and scepter. Dagger and sword is a bit better but they are still a bit on the slow side with there after cast.

I find it odd that the "caster" class of gw2 lacks faster cast speed a kind of but in quickness but more of an after cast aimed effect as well as having some casting time shorting effect. Kind of like the old self skill canceling ppl use to do with ele to try to push cast time of skills and to free up for the next skill.

They could give ele a wepon swap with out braking the class they could give eng a wepon swap with out braking the class too. Though the current balancing of skill use and after cast is not balanced for that. It would of been nice if we saw these classes get a "core" effect of a 30 sec wepon swap to a min during combat. A kind of its there but its not that great most of the time but you can still change your combat ranged during combat with out the need to leave combat.

[Infusion.7149]

@Jski.6180
There's only a handful of skills that actually have a long cast time that root you , most notably meteor shower but also Churning Earth. Since staff isn't a meta DPS weapon I don't see your point.

I wouldn't deem something such as Drake's Breath or Cone of Cold, which are both iconic skills, to be severely underpowered. Cone of Cold generally isn't used on DPS ele anyway.

Some catalyst skills in the first preview weren't balanced even versus autoattack, Whirling Stones had its cast time reduced significantly. Hurricane of Pain while it has a longer cast time doesn't root you and does high damage.

[Jski.6180]

20 minutes ago, Infusion.7149 said:

@Jski.6180
There's only a handful of skills that actually have a long cast time that root you , most notably meteor shower but also Churning Earth. Since staff isn't a meta DPS weapon I don't see your point.

I wouldn't deem something such as Drake's Breath or Cone of Cold, which are both iconic skills, to be severely underpowered. Cone of Cold generally isn't used on DPS ele anyway.

Some catalyst skills in the first preview weren't balanced even versus autoattack, Whirling Stones had its cast time reduced significantly. Hurricane of Pain while it has a longer cast time doesn't root you and does high damage.

Its not the root thing its more about the after cast but that is part of why you dont stop casting when you swap atument but you stop casting when you swap weapons. Meteor shower problem more about not being able to move and the very rng of its hit Churn is that it dose such low dmg for its effect and the "hold ppl in places" often is not enofe to stop ppl from dodgrolling out of the effect.

Channel skills are a bit different then the after cast but it is a problem to lock you from using dodge rolls for a class like ele. There should be a bigger pay off for sure for them (some what ture for MS and churn but at least you can move witht he breath and cone). I would love to see drakes breath become more of an 0 cd effect as if its a 2ed auto attk that you can channel for as long as you want. I would want to see condi clears on the cone of cold much like fumigate from eng elixir gun or gurds toch skill.

I think a lot of EoD skills are very unbalanced atm a lot of catalyst hammer skills dmg is all over the places some hit way too hard and other skill do nothing.

My point is ele right now is very much "locked" into a ranged type of combat during combat if your running daggers your going to be stuck at the ranged if your running staff your very much stuck at the speed. Weapon swaps kits even conja weapons during combat let you changes up your combat style. That the one "nice" thing hammer lets you do is have a "ranged" (sadly only 600) and a melee all in one wepon.

Ele dose not fit in the game any more.

[The Great Al.2546]

I strongly dislike just about everything about Catalyst. I wouldn’t say Auras are totally useless, if you take earth trait you basically get permanent protection, which is nice for solo/open world builds. But I’m definitely worried that Catalyst is basically going to be worse Tempest. 

[Infusion.7149]

3 hours ago, The Great Al.2546 said:

I strongly dislike just about everything about Catalyst. I wouldn’t say Auras are totally useless, if you take earth trait you basically get permanent protection, which is nice for solo/open world builds. But I’m definitely worried that Catalyst is basically going to be worse Tempest. 

Tempest doesn't provide quickness. It could be a worse tempest in competitive modes possibly, but after jade sphere rework it is a viable quickness provider in PVE.

[Flori.2194]

4 hours ago, The Great Al.2546 said:

I strongly dislike just about everything about Catalyst. I wouldn’t say Auras are totally useless, if you take earth trait you basically get permanent protection, which is nice for solo/open world builds. But I’m definitely worried that Catalyst is basically going to be worse Tempest. 

The main problem with auras (for me) is that all aura traits are scattered around all traitlines... tempest has one for overloads, water the crit and aurashare trait, fire smothering auras, earth protection and air fury and vigor (I think)... so you can't fully commit to auras, you always have to pick some weird fire traits as well or some strange air traits that don't fit very well... Maybe they should rework all traitlines, get rid of the - I admit nice idea - of one traitline for each element + arcane and make the traitlines more focussed around one theme... 

[Jski.6180]

1 hour ago, Infusion.7149 said:

Tempest doesn't provide quickness. It could be a worse tempest in competitive modes possibly, but after jade sphere rework it is a viable quickness provider in PVE.

That just not good for the game or the class to hope and dream that the next power creep lets ele get something new like quickness. They need to give tempest the boons support as long as its going to be "THE" ele support class. To just give it to Catalyst to make it "viable" for pve seems like a joke. A lot of EoD classes are getting the strong boons as support to make them viable for pve content its not going to work out well and there going to be a lot of nerfs coming down the line because of this. Sadly this is going to mean the core classes are going to get hit agen. Killing the hope for a real rework for ele.

[Infusion.7149]

2 minutes ago, Jski.6180 said:

That just not good for the game or the class to hope and dream that the next power creep lets ele get something new like quickness. They need to give tempest the boons support as long as its going to be "THE" ele support class. To just give it to Catalyst to make it "viable" for pve seems like a joke. A lot of EoD classes are getting the strong boons as support to make them viable for pve content its not going to work out well and there going to be a lot of nerfs coming down the line because of this. Sadly this is going to mean the core classes are going to get hit agen. Killing the hope for a real rework for ele.

Tempest is a viable support in PVE, WVW, and to a lesser extent PVP. TO say otherwise is misleading.
PVE: https://snowcrows.com/builds/elementalist/tempest/heal-tempest
PVE: https://hardstuck.gg/gw2/builds/elementalist/heal-tempest-r10/

WVW: https://gw2mists.com/builds/elementalist/cleanse-tempest
WVW small scale: https://gw2mists.com/builds/elementalist/celestial-tempest

PVP: https://guildjen.com/support-tempest-pvp-build/

[Jski.6180]

45 minutes ago, Infusion.7149 said:

Tempest is a viable support in PVE, WVW, and to a lesser extent PVP. TO say otherwise is misleading.
PVE: https://snowcrows.com/builds/elementalist/tempest/heal-tempest
PVE: https://hardstuck.gg/gw2/builds/elementalist/heal-tempest-r10/

WVW: https://gw2mists.com/builds/elementalist/cleanse-tempest
WVW small scale: https://gw2mists.com/builds/elementalist/celestial-tempest

PVP: https://guildjen.com/support-tempest-pvp-build/

That wvw viable is just painful to look at the lost of 10 target skills was a 50% cut to the class effect with out giving any thing to it. We went from tempest being the support healer for wvw to a massive 50% nerf to a massive buff to scraper the other wvw support all the point of remove tempest from wvw and making scraper the only real healing support.

I guess its ok in pve with 10 targets but your still an off healer not the main healer for the group. Tempest should be at least the best healer in the game due to its lack of boons support. Or just give it real boon support.

[Infusion.7149]

Just now, Jski.6180 said:

That wvw viable is just painful to look at the lost of 10 target skills was a 50% cut to the class effect with out giving any thing to it. We went from tempest being the support healer for wvw to a massive 50% nerf to a massive buff to scraper the other wvw support all the point of remove tempest from wvw and making scraper the only real healing support.

I guess its ok in pve with 10 targets but your still an off healer not the main healer for the group. Tempest should be at least the best healer in the game due to its lack of boons support. Or just give it real boon support.

? Tempest  is the best healer in the game for 10 man content. If you run druid/scrapper/heal scourge/heal renegade/firebrand all those are 5 target, only druid spirit is 10 targets. You wouldn't put firebrand or scrapper in their own subgroup due to their quickness affecting 5 people and prot from heal ren is only 5 man.

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Number_of_Targets/10

Soothing Mist is still up to 13 targets if you want to mess with subgroups.

[Jski.6180]

12 minutes ago, Infusion.7149 said:

? Tempest  is the best healer in the game for 10 man content. If you run druid/scrapper/heal scourge/heal renegade/firebrand all those are 5 target, only druid spirit is 10 targets. You wouldn't put firebrand or scrapper in their own subgroup due to their quickness affecting 5 people and prot from heal ren is only 5 man.

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Number_of_Targets/10

Soothing Mist is still up to 13 targets if you want to mess with subgroups.

Just healing 10 targets is not enofe and its not much more then what other classes are doing for 5. That what it comes down to. It would of been nice if in wvw they keeper the aggrieve side of tempest 10 targets.