Framework of the 4th e-specs I'd like to see.

[Dadnir.5038]

I won't lie and say that I'm thrilled by the set of e-spec that EoD offer but, whether I like them or not, at this point they are meant to be. Thus I can only turn myself to futur prospects.

- Elementalist: The elementalist's 4th e-spec will need a conjured weapon on F5 (only conjured in it's own hands). This would allow the elementalist to be freed from the curse of it's weaponsets that tend to pigeonhole him into ranged or melee since, as a conjured weapon, it wouldn't take the slot of the weaponset and thus allow the elementalist to switch freely from it's weapon set to it's conjure (It could already be the case with current conjure but the QoL on the current conjure is just horrendous which is why people tend to shune conjured weapons). Anyway, the mechanism is easy to design (the UI framework is there with catalist and conjure isn't something "new"), the range of potential traits is huge (Just look at the necromancer's traits supporting shroud for inspiration) and it fit thematically with the elementalist.

- Engineer: One can say that scrapper expand on gadgets, holosmith expand on kits and mechanist expand on turrets. Let the 4th e-spec expand on elixirs. I'd like the engineer to have a set of drugs that allow him to hallucinate and summon his fantasms to help him in combat (in short, a crossbreed of engineer). You'd thus have set skill for each F key, instead of of the skills that depend on which utility is chosen (which would be the drawback). They could say: "The tool belt is now replaced by the thinking tank".

- Guardian: The guardian need to fall into depravity. It's nice and all that it uphold justice, resolve and courage but there has to be some who fall and become corrupted. Justice would become Wrath and change the burn into torment. Resolve would become glutony and allow your next hit to leech life on a 3s ICD. Courage would become Pride and grant barrier to the guardian whenever he gain a boon with an ICD (Active effect would match the passive). The various symbols would change their attunment from light to dark.

- Mesmer: From my point of view the mesmer need it's illusions to affect them instead of affecting their foe. The mesmer would no longer summon clones but instead affect himself with a buff/debuff that can stack up to 5 times and that they want to eventually shatter (For example: imaginary armor reducing the mesmer's movement speed by 5% per stack but similarly reducing incoming damage by 5% per stack).

- Necromancer: I need the necromancer to focus onto ghosts. A spec that give clone/fantasms/ghosts to the necromancer on a shroud that don't have the LF shield. The LF upkeep of the shroud would increase with each clone/ghost used on the field but the damage taken by the necromancer would be shared with them.

- Ranger: The ranger need to be freed from the burden of the mortality of it's pets. The 4th e-spec need to part from the common pet list and give the ranger a few pets that are exclusive to this spec, dealing very little damage on hit (no more than a clone autoattacking) but under the effect of equivalent to the Determined buff.

- Revenant: Before anything else, the revenant need an e-spec that have some coherence lore-wise (Yes, vindicator is just a mess in my eyes!).

- Thief: The profession still need a spec focused on reveal. They are the stealth expert, it's natural for them to also be able to become expert at countering stealth and exploit the counter to stealth.

- Warrior: ... Well... Warrior is a lost cause... I think it's the first game that managed to make me give up on the warrior archetype. Bladesworn is probably the last nail on the coffin. No idea there, not even the will to have one.

[LucianDK.8615]

The necromancer one sounds rather close to Scourge as it is now.

Mesmer would fit it much better than engineer to use elixirs and conjuring up his delusions. Especially since Engineers already have elixirs.

Each espec gives the professions a skillset they do not possess. So expanding on a baseline set is no go.

Edited February 6, 2022 by LucianDK.8615

[Dadnir.5038]

4 hours ago, LucianDK.8615 said:

The necromancer one sounds rather close to Scourge as it is now.

Mesmer would fit it much better than engineer to use elixirs and conjuring up his delusions. Especially since Engineers already have elixirs.

Each espec gives the professions a skillset they do not possess. So expanding on a baseline set is no go.

I think you misunderstood something. I don't talk about miscelanous things like utility skills and weapon.

Scourge have stationnary "turrets", this is absolutely not what I'm talking about. I'm talking about a shroud skillset that summon clones made up of life force to harrass the target they are attached to. I'm talking about fantasms that attack a target it's attached to. Things that can be destroyed and could carry on the effects of the 4 minion traits that the necromancer have.

I'm talking about the engineer replacing it's tool belt by a fixed set of skills based on a thematic close to mesmer but by using "technology" to emulate it (which is what an engineer does). I'm not talking about getting him an extra set elixirs utility skills. Furthermore, whether the thing are categorized as elixir or not, the engineer can afford to do it in an e-spec as some of it's kits already have skills that borrow the elixir label. 

I never talked about expanding on a baseline, I talked about expanding around a thematic and alchemy is a thematic of the engineer. Drugs are a thematic of the engineer.

 

NB: Just to nitpick on utility skills:

- Berserker give rage skills that are nothing more than physical skills with a different label.

- Catalist and Weaver have both their own set of stances, the only difference is that catalist's one is labeled as "augment".

- Mirage's deceptions aren't much different from mesmer's manipulations.

If the devs want to give a new set of elixirs to the engineer nothing prevent them from labeling them as drugs, potions or beers.

[Dawanarth.4601]

7 hours ago, Dadnir.5038 said:

- Engineer: One can say that scrapper expand on gadgets, holosmith expand on kits and mechanist expand on turrets. Let the 4th e-spec expand on elixirs. I'd like the engineer to have a set of drugs that allow him to hallucinate and summon his fantasms to help him in combat (in short, a crossbreed of engineer). You'd thus have set skill for each F key, instead of of the skills that depend on which utility is chosen (which would be the drawback). They could say: "The tool belt is now replaced by the thinking tank".

I think most people want to keep the Toolbelt, like Mechanist already took out the toolbelt and many are peeved, plus the fact the ability don't really make sense for an Engineer, since it's inherently not a magical profession and what you are writing seem to be very similar to a Mesmer

If anything, I would prefer for the Engineer to either not touch at all the toolbelt or have a way to momentarily use it  (Like have them be able to sue it while the Mech isn't out)

On the theme for the Engineer, the 2 that are currently lacking are Self-augment and Chemicals, one can be done with Twin Power Axe Mechadendrites/Power Armour acting as Kit which replace the Toolbelt while active to differentiate with the OG kit, while the other would best work with a Condi Shortbow set around Trick arrows

 

8 hours ago, Dadnir.5038 said:

Elementalist: The elementalist's 4th e-spec will need a conjured weapon on F5

I suppose I don't play enough Elem. to know if that's what they want, but from what I've heard they want a ranged focused Spec, not necessarily one that can change range, so with a Rifle/Longbow

8 hours ago, Dadnir.5038 said:

Guardian: The guardian need to fall into depravity.

Meh, do they ? There are other things that can do with it. Like a Sheriff with a Pistol set

8 hours ago, Dadnir.5038 said:

- Mesmer: From my point of view the mesmer need it's illusions to affect them instead of affecting their foe. The mesmer would no longer summon clones but instead affect himself with a buff/debuff that can stack up to 5 times and that they want to eventually shatter (For example: imaginary armor reducing the mesmer's movement speed by 5% per stack but similarly reducing incoming damage by 5% per stack).

That I can understand but it would need to be shared to affect others too. To be some sort of Support and not simply a tank. Ideally though I would love to see a Music/Orchestra Themed Mesmer:

Spoiler

Change the 4 Shatters to Symphonies

F1/F2/F3/F4: Shatter a Clone and fill the corresponding Symphony

F5: Toggle the Symphony from Active (Allegro) and Inactive/Passive (Adagio)

In Allegro, all the symphonies start to deplete while giving different buffs

While in Adagio they just give basic buffs but don't deplete

The likely weapon would be a Shortbow, as it's the one that look the most like an instrument (Harps)

 

[oscuro.9720]

Me: reading good ideas in anticipation for best class warrior idea

OP: “Warrior sux lol”

big sad

[Puck.3697]

7 hours ago, oscuro.9720 said:

Me: reading good ideas in anticipation for best class warrior idea

OP: “Warrior sux lol”

big sad

Warriors will get banners 2.0 

Not only will u put down your 2 banners onto the floor to move around for the raid. 

But you will get a F1 - F5 of banners to also put down and move around for the raid. 

It will be named 

"The ultimate banner slave" your new gameplay will the banners will do your rotation instead of you. 

[Jski.6180]

I just want them to stop being tide to expansion and be in them self DLC add ons that come more often then once every 3-7 years.

[Lan Deathrider.5910]

On 2/6/2022 at 5:59 AM, Dadnir.5038 said:

- Warrior: ... Well... Warrior is a lost cause... I think it's the first game that managed to make me give up on the warrior archetype. Bladesworn is probably the last nail on the coffin. No idea there, not even the will to have one.

Please, stop twisting the dagger that Anet shoved into our backs...

FWIW, Warrior needs a NON DPS focused espec, so far they've all been DPS oriented in one game mode or another. SpB gets used in some support gimmicks, but it isn't a support line.

Banners are 'sUpPoRt' but not really.

Banners need a complete overhaul. Defense needs a complete overhaul. Arms needs a complete overhaul. Bladesworn ALREADY needs a complete overhaul and it isn't even out yet.

To me a 4th espec would focus on a 'Commander' or 'General' theme, but in my mind is just rolling some old GW1 monk aspects into it. F1 would be a long range offensive fast casting moderate damage attack ( because of traits), but an F2-F5 would be aoe support abilities. 5 bars of adrenaline, only one bar is spent per action, CDs are not shared and F2-F5 are instant cast. F1 would have a shorter CD, like 4s on F1, F2-F5 would be their own CDs, probably not all the same.

F2 would be an AoE Heal + condi removal.
F3 would be aoe might, quickness, fury
F4 would be aoe protection, resistance, and resolution
F5 would be aoe stunbreak with stability

Traitline would augment them in various ways, like granting extra barrier, or utility boons like swiftness or alacrity or extra healing. All in the Master tier so you'd have to pick which one

F1 would be upgradable on GM to do double damage against certain target (summons, strikes in AoE it it hits a summoned creature for instance), to blind a target and be unblockable, or steal boons but deal less damage.

Adept tier would focus on utility ad various ways to expedite gaining adrenaline or whatever the new version would be called.

Give it a staff at this point, melee range. Give it things like chill, weakness, slow, and immobilize but would be a moderate DPS weapon, but would be within fast multi hit attacks. Utilities would be offense related and all would give adrenaline under certain conditions. Call them Smites, give at least some of them munitions.

Things like:
Strike enemies around you and burn them, gain adrenaline per for struck, chilled foes gain double the burn stacks, base stacks would depend on the game mode.

Strike enemies around you and torment them, immobilized foes take double the torment stacks. Gain adrenaline per foe struck.

Cleanse conditions from yourself and nearby allies (2 per), enemies near each ally are poisoned per condition removed. Gain adrenaline per ally affected.

Stunbreak yourself and allies in range. Enemies nearby affected allies are knockdown for 3s. Gain adrenaline per ally affected.

Heal yourself and nearby allies while granting them vigor and regeneration. The next strike on each ally is negated and the enemy takes damage instead (something moderate but not high, and only one attack per ally). Gain adrenaline per ally affected.

Adrenaline gained in each case is 2 per.

Elite would be the old Ray of Judgement from GW1, nuke a target area, pulse burn and damage for 5s, because kitten that guy in the backline in particular. Gain 10 adrenaline per pulse unconditionally. Lets you pump out F2-F5 quickly if you need to.

[Dadnir.5038]

2 hours ago, Lan Deathrider.5910 said:

Please, stop twisting the dagger that Anet shoved into our backs...

I'm merely expressing my personal sentiment. Bladesworn's design really killed it for me.

I could accept a berserker that have an enrage that don't really make it impressing.

I could endure the idea of the Spellbreaker that break boons with hard CC even if it ended up disappointing.

However, the sword draw gameplay with a pistol-greatsword of the bladesworn... Sorry, that's beyond my bottom line.

Going how it's going the next one will be a myrmidon with a staff that have skills that transform it's upper end into a trident and that throw nets at it's foes (because allowing underwater to be usable on land is obviously a "no!"). I can already picture it: "Meet the myrmidon, A warrior specialization that use nets at it's foes to immobilize them and use staff alongside with our last CG innovation like a trident to poke holes into it's foes!" and "We are really excited to show you the new warrior's specialization, we've decided to expand on the gameplay of one of our favourite core trait: Leg specialist! Everything revolve around immobilize, which might make us forced to nerf Throw bola.".

[Lan Deathrider.5910]

3 minutes ago, Dadnir.5038 said:

I'm merely expressing my personal sentiment. Bladesworn's design really killed it for me.

I could accept a berserker that have an enrage that don't really make it impressing.

I could endure the idea of the Spellbreaker that break boons with hard CC even if it ended up disappointing.

However, the sword draw gameplay with a pistol-greatsword of the bladesworn... Sorry, that's beyond my bottom line.

Going how it's going the next one will be a myrmidon with a staff that have skills that transform it's upper end into a trident and that throw nets at it's foes (because allowing underwater to be usable on land is obviously a "no!"). I can already picture it: "Meet the myrmidon, A warrior specialization that use nets at it's foes to immobilize them and use staff alongside with our last CG innovation like a trident to poke holes into it's foes!" and "We are really excited to show you the new warrior's specialization, we've decided to expand on the gameplay of one of our favourite core trait: Leg specialist! Everything revolve around immobilize, which might make us forced to nerf Throw bola.".

The only thing stopping a decent warrior immobilize build is having the right stats for it. If they roll out a Power/Precision/Ferocity/Expertise or Power/Expertise/Precision/Ferocity set with EoD you'll see core and spellbreaker immob builds pop up.

[Tails.9372]

On 2/6/2022 at 11:59 AM, Dadnir.5038 said:

Thief: The profession still need a spec focused on reveal.

As I said in various other threads, a classic western outlaw spec would be perfect for that as they're all about direct confrontations while also being an iconic example of the thief archetype.

[Kodama.6453]

Engineer

What Engineer needs is an easier condition damage rotation. Mechanist unfortunately didn't deliver here, since we are still tied to having the full bar stacked with kits to fill this role.

Another aspect I would enjoy from a new elite spec would be more access to boon removal. Throw Mine and it's associated toolbelt skill (if it's actually there) are to this day our only options.

These 2 aspects could get tied together well with a chemical theme. We have several elite specs now which are about our engineer building companions or devices, but alchemy is just as well part of the engineer profession as this stuff. I would envision something similar thematically to Viper from Valorant. Someone who uses deadly acids and gases to attack, but also uses them as cover for their own movements. Which leads me to the third pillar of the gameplay I would tie to a new spec: stealth.

I would like to take the ambush mechanic from other classes and make the engineer have their auto attack flip over to another skill while they are standing in one of their gas clouds. This includes the auto attacks of kits, so we would get ambushes for:

• rifle
• pistol
• new weapon (my pick would be either axe or staff)
• bomb kit
• grenade kit
• flamethrower
• elixir gun
• med kit
• tool kit
• mortar kit

Class mechanic would be called "chem-belt". The F5 skill allows us to flip our toolbelt F1-F4 skills over to another set (which is fixed). One skill in this chem-belt would be the "chem-fog", a combo field which spreads from our position and grows in size over time.

The chem-fog can get altered by a trait choice. It becomes either a poison combo field (condition damage oriented trait), ethereal combo field (boon removal oriented trait) or smoke combo field (stealth oriented trait).

 

Edited February 8, 2022 by Kodama.6453

[Dawanarth.4601]

I'm not sure I would want to have it tied to the stealth attack, since both the Thief and the Mirage

What if using chems would inflict Corrosion on the Engineer, lowering their armour but increasing their damages while under it

Standing inside a Chem field would give you Corrosion and let you use those attack while F1 would vent those corrosions to heal or buff your allies

[Kodama.6453]

6 hours ago, Dawanarth.4601 said:

I'm not sure I would want to have it tied to the stealth attack, since both the Thief and the Mirage

What if using chems would inflict Corrosion on the Engineer, lowering their armour but increasing their damages while under it

Standing inside a Chem field would give you Corrosion and let you use those attack while F1 would vent those corrosions to heal or buff your allies

Seems like a misunderstanding.

I didn't envision ambushes to be activated by stealth, but by a buff caused while you are standing in your gas clouds. Actually pretty similar to the corrosion mechanic you describe here.

Stealth is just a possible additional effect which you can gain from your gas clouds if you are traiting for it. As mentioned, the pillars are condition damage, boon removal and stealth. But even if you don't take the stealth options in the traits, ambushes would be available for you while standing in your gas clouds.

Edited February 9, 2022 by Kodama.6453

[Dawanarth.4601]

What skill would you envision for this Spec ? Glyph could be quite good, where the effect change depending on whether you are in the gas or not

[Kodama.6453]

11 minutes ago, Dawanarth.4601 said:

What skill would you envision for this Spec ? Glyph could be quite good, where the effect change depending on whether you are in the gas or not

Glyphs could work well with this spec when it comes to gameplay mechanics, but I don't think they are fitting thematically. Glyphs in Tyria are magical symbols the user is inscribing into something (like the ground) to cause a magical effect, hence why they work really well for Elementalist and Druid, the 2 classes which can use glyphs currently, but this spec is not really magic focused and more about chemical warfare.

Utility skill types I could imagine for this spec would be:

• Preparations/Traps: Fits the thematic since it can be represented as the engineer installing devices on the battlefield to spread their chemicals, might they be puddles of acids for damage, gas clouds for the spec mechanic or other stuff. I prefer preparations, since they can be used more strategically.
• Corruptions: Could be used in the sense that the engineer is using dangerous chemicals to harm the enemy while applying corrosion onto themselves.

[draxynnic.3719]

On 2/8/2022 at 2:55 AM, Lan Deathrider.5910 said:

Please, stop twisting the dagger that Anet shoved into our backs...

FWIW, Warrior needs a NON DPS focused espec, so far they've all been DPS oriented in one game mode or another. SpB gets used in some support gimmicks, but it isn't a support line.

Banners are 'sUpPoRt' but not really.

Banners need a complete overhaul. Defense needs a complete overhaul. Arms needs a complete overhaul. Bladesworn ALREADY needs a complete overhaul and it isn't even out yet.

To me a 4th espec would focus on a 'Commander' or 'General' theme, but in my mind is just rolling some old GW1 monk aspects into it. F1 would be a long range offensive fast casting moderate damage attack ( because of traits), but an F2-F5 would be aoe support abilities. 5 bars of adrenaline, only one bar is spent per action, CDs are not shared and F2-F5 are instant cast. F1 would have a shorter CD, like 4s on F1, F2-F5 would be their own CDs, probably not all the same.

F2 would be an AoE Heal + condi removal.
F3 would be aoe might, quickness, fury
F4 would be aoe protection, resistance, and resolution
F5 would be aoe stunbreak with stability

Traitline would augment them in various ways, like granting extra barrier, or utility boons like swiftness or alacrity or extra healing. All in the Master tier so you'd have to pick which one

F1 would be upgradable on GM to do double damage against certain target (summons, strikes in AoE it it hits a summoned creature for instance), to blind a target and be unblockable, or steal boons but deal less damage.

Adept tier would focus on utility ad various ways to expedite gaining adrenaline or whatever the new version would be called.

Give it a staff at this point, melee range. Give it things like chill, weakness, slow, and immobilize but would be a moderate DPS weapon, but would be within fast multi hit attacks. Utilities would be offense related and all would give adrenaline under certain conditions. Call them Smites, give at least some of them munitions.

Things like:
Strike enemies around you and burn them, gain adrenaline per for struck, chilled foes gain double the burn stacks, base stacks would depend on the game mode.

Strike enemies around you and torment them, immobilized foes take double the torment stacks. Gain adrenaline per foe struck.

Cleanse conditions from yourself and nearby allies (2 per), enemies near each ally are poisoned per condition removed. Gain adrenaline per ally affected.

Stunbreak yourself and allies in range. Enemies nearby affected allies are knockdown for 3s. Gain adrenaline per ally affected.

Heal yourself and nearby allies while granting them vigor and regeneration. The next strike on each ally is negated and the enemy takes damage instead (something moderate but not high, and only one attack per ally). Gain adrenaline per ally affected.

Adrenaline gained in each case is 2 per.

Elite would be the old Ray of Judgement from GW1, nuke a target area, pulse burn and damage for 5s, because kitten that guy in the backline in particular. Gain 10 adrenaline per pulse unconditionally. Lets you pump out F2-F5 quickly if you need to.

Personally, I'd like to see them take some of the theme from support dervish. Would probably cover a lot of what you've described there (although the elite might have a different graphic and involve a different condition), dervishes also used adrenaline so adrenaline-fuelled mechanics would fit the theme, and it could use a scythe skin (or a similar bladed polearm) as the elite specialisation skin for the 'staff'.

[Lan Deathrider.5910]

7 minutes ago, draxynnic.3719 said:

Personally, I'd like to see them take some of the theme from support dervish. Would probably cover a lot of what you've described there (although the elite might have a different graphic and involve a different condition), dervishes also used adrenaline so adrenaline-fuelled mechanics would fit the theme, and it could use a scythe skin (or a similar bladed polearm) as the elite specialisation skin for the 'staff'.

Dervish could do it certainly, though I was going more for a smiting prayer's vibe so that it would still be somewhat offensive.

[draxynnic.3719]

26 minutes ago, Lan Deathrider.5910 said:

Dervish could do it certainly, though I was going more for a smiting prayer's vibe so that it would still be somewhat offensive.

Well, dervish could still be pretty offensive. "Support dervish" in GW1 was pretty much always a hybrid (as GW1 measured it, anyway) - the attributes that powered the support skills also had offensive skills, and in some cases it could be healing and dishing out damage with the same key presses (although obviously not with the same DPS that a full-on offensive build would).

It also avoids the issue that Guardian is pretty much already a mix of warrior and monk with a few bits of other things, so Smiting-oriented skills would end up looking a lot like Guardian skills (there's already a Ray of Judgement even, except it's a single-target persistent effect rather than an area effect), while a dervish theme would likely be more elemental in nature and thus be more distinct. Also helps that it's a natural fit for using staff as a melee weapon.

Edited February 10, 2022 by draxynnic.3719

[Dawanarth.4601]

Aren't the Dervish set around the Human gods ? Would it still make sense for the other Races ?

[draxynnic.3719]

6 hours ago, Dawanarth.4601 said:

Aren't the Dervish set around the Human gods ? Would it still make sense for the other Races ?

Some of the skills are, but not all of them. If you look at the GW1 NPC dervishes closely, you'll notice that only humans and entities that are otherwise linked to a deity (like the snowmen) have avatar forms.

(Ironically, Reaper then ended up being very close to a Grenth dervish.)

So it's entirely plausible that there could be something dervish-like that doesn't channel divine powers. It just probably wouldn't have an avatar mode.

[Zacchary.6183]

On 2/6/2022 at 5:59 AM, Dadnir.5038 said:

The profession still need a spec focused on reveal.

I made a mechanic that combines stealth and revealed, allowing access to "stealth attacks" without the stealth. GS idea in siggy.

[Infinity.2876]

No one said dagger dagger guardian yet so just to put it out there .... Kind of like shards of a stained glass window being sustain via evade and blind.

 

Stealth focused ranger. could use a focus looking like a bear trap and using prep utility

 

Jormag rev using chill as a damage condition and signets (got to love them😁)

 

I was thinking for elementalist having their elements replaced by different runes

 

Axe condi engi with traps(kind of clockwork/eatherblade feel)

 

For the rest I didn't mention have already been mentioned in this forum.

 

 

 

 

[Infinity.2876]

Just now, Infinity.2876 said:

No one said dagger dagger guardian yet so just to put it out there .... Kind of like shards of a stained glass window being sustain via evade and blind.

 

Stealth focused ranger. could use a focus looking like a bear trap and using prep utility

 

Jormag rev using chill as a damage condition and signets (got to love them😁)

 

I was thinking for elementalist having their elements replaced by different runes

 

Axe condi engi with traps(kind of clockwork/eatherblade feel)

 

For the rest I didn't mention have already been mentioned in this forum.

 

 

 

 

Shapeshifter ele would be another option

[Dawanarth.4601]

1 hour ago, Infinity.2876 said:

Jormag rev using chill as a damage condition and signets (got to love them😁)

Herald already is the Rev Signet