Bring the player, not the profession.

[Hadi.6025]

What does this mean and when can we view the Balance changes ? 

[Naxx.6203]

All profession will have option to be either dps/healer/boonsupport with similar outcome so you won't be required to play only meta builds like Firebrand, Scourge or Renegade. In short - your skill matters no profession you pick.

Also I'm quite sure it was written with Pve in mind not Pvp.

Edited February 17, 2022 by Nawrotex.9521
typo

[Exedore.6320]

2 hours ago, Hadi.6025 said:

What does this mean and when can we view the Balance changes ? 

It originated from "WoW" PvE: Bring the player - not the class .  At that time in WoW, most classes and specs in each class had unique raid-wide buffs. It was more beneficial to bring a mediocre player of each class for the buffs than to bring good players which doubled-up on classes in your raid, missing out on a few of the buffs. The intent was to balance classes and specs such that player skill meant more than the class's unique buffs.  If you needed a DPS role, you picked the best DPS player or those you enjoyed playing with, regardless of class.

 

It's often misused to justify whatever players want. For example, it wasn't intended to mean that you could bring a DPS over a support if you needed a support. Also, it wasn't necessarily in response to the problem of a dominant class or build - though this is a particular case of the general problem.

Edited February 17, 2022 by Exedore.6320

[Avatar.3568]

It maybe means what gw2 originally was intended to, back in core you had no especs and more ways to specialize your core build 

 

There was no real healer, everyone did a bit. Than they made broken especs, changed old builds and now you can specialize yourself with the especs, with 3 especs for each class you might be able to specialize yourself more with wider options 

[Stalima.5490]

4 hours ago, Hadi.6025 said:

What does this mean and when can we view the Balance changes ? 

What it usually translates to is erasing the individuality of the classes because that one guy can do it better

[JusticeRetroHunter.7684]

It’s standardization and homogenization.

 

This slogan, and their mention of diversity comes from a place in which they do not understand how it works. 
 

Standardization is the only way anet knows how to make classes balanced unfortunately…and that is the price we will pay for that perfect balance which is in principle unattainable.
 

The fact that Anet says standardization will increase diversity is also ironic…because it is the complete opposite of what diversity even means (differentiation).

Edited February 17, 2022 by JusticeRetroHunter.7684

[Downstate.4697]

They meant for pve. The skills and balance team exists only with pve in mind

[primatos.5413]

1 hour ago, FrownyClown.8402 said:

They meant for pve. The skills and balance team exists only with pve in mind

Maybe they don't know about the other gamemodes?

[Zekent.3652]

That means no more necro spam on soloQ COPIUM.

[SoftFootpaws.9134]

4 hours ago, Stalima.5490 said:

What it usually translates to is erasing the individuality of the classes because that one guy can do it better

But players don't want "individuality of classes", they want to join a game and not have three Necros per team. Its become incredibly boring being funneled into specific roles by your class.

Edited February 18, 2022 by Hannelore.8153

[Fueki.4753]

As far as I'm concerned, it no longer means anything in GW2.

Ideally it'd mean that all professions are equal in viability, so that the players' abilities mean more than the professions they choose. But Arenanet made sure this is not the case, by making certain professions too good (possibly on purpose), while they make sure to keep others down (possibly on purpose as well).

Edited February 18, 2022 by Fueki.4753

[Stalima.5490]

17 hours ago, Hannelore.8153 said:

But players don't want "individuality of classes", they want to join a game and not have three Necros per team. Its become incredibly boring being funneled into specific roles by your class.

my point was that it is generally something that causes the problem that it is supposed to fix.

[Lord of the Fire.6870]

On 2/17/2022 at 6:27 PM, Hadi.6025 said:

What does this mean and when can we view the Balance changes ? 

What that means is that they cut down on the individuality of abilities of especs and classes in general . I haven't found the original source of this but I go with this.

 

This is the direction they went the last 3 years before this we had the best balance in the game we ever had. Like some already said this direction is something like in Vanilla GW2 PvE . The first problem with this is people will just pick the best and nothing else then

 

This also include all other game modes not only sPvP . Was we had post PoF was for PvE a long list of roles and if we talk about raids open up slots even more by increasing target cap.

 

In sPvP we had this too the problem is a lot of players ignored it and so  they dragged you often down with them.

 

I have today develop a theory what going why are they completely disconnected with their decisions  from parts of the community . I mean this policy creates in competitive modes or competitive level complete mono blobs(mostly necro and guard atm)  . I came to the conclusion they look it seems mostly on the average players and below .

 

This means they want to close the gab between the players by melting the advantages/differences which also gives the individual classes their their spirit away.

 

This is really the worst possible choice e.g when everyone does the same dmg the tankiest one wins

so the results are :

 

- less diversity

- less fun because classes doing less interesting stuff

- losing some rpg elements

- an enrage competitive community in all game modes or they just leaving now.

 

With the old system it was the opposite the only problem is that some players refused to adapt . The only down side was that those who weren't willing to adapt were left behind . I must say in the long run in all games modes you need to play 2 build/classes/especs atm at least when you want to be really effective .

 

If people want to stay were they it is also not really a problem actually it becomes really a problem if you try to force players which just grinding to play with highly competitive  players. This is really bad .

 

Yes there is more to it there is always more to balance.

[Mik.3401]

I think it means something completely different than in the past when it was about dps for the most part and theorycrafting in terms of support.
I think nowadays it means it is hard to balance the game around 9 different classes and they are not willing to take the challenge. Passive/semi-passive (i.e. boon spam in wvw) sustain is something which came after the core. This, or for example adding simple support options (1-button alac mirage for instance) enables to make any class at least viable with little effort. For dps it’s a matter of pumping numbers so it’s even easier.

 

[Paradoxoglanis.1904]

It means every class can run the same boon support dps hybrid build for raids and fractals.

[Lord of the Fire.6870]

On 2/17/2022 at 11:07 PM, JusticeRetroHunter.7684 said:

It’s standardization and homogenization.

 

This slogan, and their mention of diversity comes from a place in which they do not understand how it works. 
 

Standardization is the only way anet knows how to make classes balanced unfortunately…and that is the price we will pay for that perfect balance which is in principle unattainable.
 

The fact that Anet says standardization will increase diversity is also ironic…because it is the complete opposite of what diversity even means (differentiation).

True but it was once different

On 2/18/2022 at 3:01 AM, Hannelore.8153 said:

But players don't want "individuality of classes", they want to join a game and not have three Necros per team. Its become incredibly boring being funneled into specific roles by your class.

The problem is good and fun skills in PvE are often totally OP in PvP . Gw 1 and a lot of other Rpg game split skills completely because of this . Gw2 started this too but very late and it not like the functionality is completely different from the PvE skills like in other MMORPGs. It not always necessary but those who doesn't split are careful crafted with one vision in mind. Gw2 with all it expansion isn't this anymore .

 

I also see other problems with how balancing works in Gw2 . They made weapons skill fixed in this game. Which was for many players  not a good decision because all others MMORPG freed that up and follow more the foot steps of GW1. This introduced extremely lazy balancing by balance A when the problem is on B  which is often core traitlines .

 

Which cause then even more problems because now all the other builds are effected. From my experience people even except even much less story from an MMORpG when they have the freedom to explore builds .

 

 

On 2/18/2022 at 4:28 PM, Fueki.4753 said:

As far as I'm concerned, it no longer means anything in GW2.

Ideally it'd mean that all professions are equal in viability, so that the players' abilities mean more than the professions they choose. But Arenanet made sure this is not the case, by making certain professions too good (possibly on purpose), while they make sure to keep others down (possibly on purpose as well).

I can see this kinda there is certainly something to it especially shortly before an expansion they burn all the old meta builds . Especially I can also see this with healer builds e.g Tempest they could have during HoT improved Arcane Might with the traitline they never did and during PoF they could have give it quickness and some better protection/stabi up time.

 

Same goes for the healer runes because besides the 6th bonus the Monk rune calculate heal with % while other give a static number which results in 100 heal more on top of it (not the 6th bonus the text before). This also make it not really a choice compare to other healer runes.

 

I also see that they jump in when players find a way to play a class in a way they didn't expect it even when it is for the most part meaningless.

 

 

Edited February 27, 2022 by Lord of the Fire.6870