Chrono nerfs

[SoftFootpaws.9134]

Chrono was already the least played class in the game after massive nerfs in the past, now its been nerfed again. Normally I ignore stuff like this because every change needs a solid chance to be fleshed out, but on top of everything the class has gone through it seems excessive?

 

Time Warp being restricted to five targets with no improvement in duration. This is a high-cooldown, low-impact skill that takes up an Elite skill slot. Firebrands and Scrappers can still deliver just as much Quickness without sacrificing anything, especially not their Elite skill slot. The target cap was the entire point of this skill, so the duration could've at least been improved.

 

Signet of Inspiration, which is used to keep perma Alac/Quick on allies easier with Chrono, since they struggle with keeping these boons up constantly unlike other classes that provide them (e.g, Renegade's 1-click perma Alacrity, Scrapper just casting Gyros for Quickness and so on). Now it no longer affects allies, and Blurred Inscriptions isn't taken on any boon Chornomancer build because they're not usually the party healer and the Inspiration traitline offers very little in the way of DPS, etc.

 

Now to have max boon provisions Chronos have to take Chaos(For Chaotic Persistence), and Inspiration, always. If Blurred Inscriptions is kept as a requirement for supporting allies with Signet of Inspiration, at least make its passive effect work on them too.

 

I just don't understand why the change to either of these skills was necessary, especially without giving anything back, when Chrono was already in such a sad state that it basically only had one single role left in the entire game which is tanking in raids.

Edited March 1, 2022 by Hannelore.8153

[Salt Mode.3780]

Its simple...they wanted chrono to be out of raids so people will go Virtuoso...I think this was pretty obvious. Now that chrono cant provide anything Virtuoso at least could provide dps?

[Mell.4873]

4 hours ago, Hannelore.8153 said:

Chrono was already the least played class in the game after massive nerfs in the past, now its been nerfed again. Normally I ignore stuff like this because every change needs a solid chance to be fleshed out, but on top of everything the class has gone through it seems excessive?

 

Time Warp being restricted to five targets with no improvement in duration. This is a high-cooldown, low-impact skill that takes up an Elite skill slot. Firebrands and Scrappers can still deliver just as much Quickness without sacrificing anything, especially not their Elite skill slot. The target cap was the entire point of this skill, so the duration could've at least been improved.

 

Signet of Inspiration, which is used to keep perma Alac/Quick on allies easier with Chrono, since they struggle with keeping these boons up constantly unlike other classes that provide them (e.g, Renegade's 1-click perma Alacrity, Scrapper just casting Gyros for Quickness and so on). Now it no longer affects allies, and Blurred Inscriptions isn't taken on any boon Chornomancer build because they're not usually the party healer and the Inspiration traitline offers very little in the way of DPS, etc.

 

Now to have max boon provisions Chronos have to take Chaos(For Chaotic Persistence), and Inspiration, always. If Blurred Inscriptions is kept as a requirement for supporting allies with Signet of Inspiration, at least make its passive effect work on them too.

 

I just don't understand why the change to either of these skills was necessary, especially without giving anything back, when Chrono was already in such a sad state that it basically only had one single role left in the entire game which is tanking in raids.

They told us this for a while I don't know why you are supised. Every 10 person boon application got changed to 5.

[Mell.4873]

1 hour ago, Salt Mode.3780 said:

Its simple...they wanted chrono to be out of raids so people will go Virtuoso...I think this was pretty obvious. Now that chrono cant provide anything Virtuoso at least could provide dps?

Chrono can provide boons in raids, nothing changed? 

Edited March 1, 2022 by Mell.4873

[piitb.7635]

They nerfed all classes.

 

 

All buffs are capped at 5 players.

 

 

You'd do us all a favor if you took 30 seconds to gander outside your myopic view

[Levetty.1279]

11 minutes ago, piitb.7635 said:

They nerfed all classes.

 

 

All buffs are capped at 5 players.

 

 

You'd do us all a favor if you took 30 seconds to gander outside your myopic view

You'd do us a favor if you read topics before posting in them.

[SoftFootpaws.9134]

1 hour ago, Mell.4873 said:

They told us this for a while I don't know why you are supised. Every 10 person boon application got changed to 5.

The Signet wasn't changd from 10 to 5. It was changed from 5 without the trait, to 0 without. And as an Elite skill, Time Warp was hit much harder by this change than many regular skills.

 

Maybe read the topic you're replying to, which discusses the issues?

Edited March 1, 2022 by Hannelore.8153

[OriOri.8724]

1 hour ago, Mell.4873 said:

They told us this for a while I don't know why you are supised. Every 10 person boon application got changed to 5.

Yes, they told us target caps were being reduced to 5 for skills. But what you forgot is that time warp was balanced around being able to give quickness to 10 allies at once. When they reduced teh cap to 5 allies, they didn't also rework time warp to be a better skill to compensate.

 

Most skills that had their target cap reduced were just being brought in line for general balance changes, but this was a heavy nerf to time warp that makes it worse than well of action in most situations. Its pretty weird that an elite skill is now outclassed by a utility skill that has 1/4 the cooldown. Timewarp should have also seen a CD reduction to go along with this change

[necromaniac.7629]

31 minutes ago, Hannelore.8153 said:

The Signet wasn't changd from 10 to 5. It was changed from 5 without the trait, to 0 without. And as an Elite skill, Time Warp was hit much harder by this change than many regular skills.

 

Maybe read the topic you're replying to, which discusses the issues?

any which way it was deserved...for balance

[SoftFootpaws.9134]

3 minutes ago, necromaniac.7629 said:

any which way it was deserved...for balance

Balance of an already unplayed class? Chrono hasn't been meta in most of the game's content since 2018. These changes barely affect the other subclasses because their builds don't utilise these skills much, let alone depend on them for group support like the Chrono does.

Edited March 1, 2022 by Hannelore.8153

[necromaniac.7629]

8 minutes ago, Hannelore.8153 said:

Balance of an already unplayed class? Chrono hasn't been meta in most of the game's content since 2018. These changes barely affect the other subclasses because their builds don't utilise these skills much, let alone depend on them for group support like the Chrono does.

I don't what tree you live under but chrono is very much still  a strong class in all of the game's content even discretize added chrono on their site so you go complain to them its not meta enough https://discretize.eu/builds/mesmer/power-chronomancer/ there is a meta chrono build in wvw too and raids speak for itself: https://snowcrows.com/builds?profession=Mesmer

Edited March 1, 2022 by necromaniac.7629

[Fate.4630]

Chronomancer is still an incredibly power DPS class in raids and solo. I don't play WvW so I cant speak to that end.

 

A lot of people have been saying that Mesmer is getting nerfed a lot every patch, and to some extent its true, but it also gets some things back. It's just forgotten. 

 

Just look at the patch history for TIMEWARP. I'll only list what I believe are the memorable changes

 

1. 2014
   1.  Confirmed that it affects 5 people, with 11 pulses
2. 2015
   1.  Cooldown reduced from 210 seconds to 180 (BUFF!)
3. 2015
   1. Skill is now classified as glamour (BUFF)
   2. It now pulses SLOW to enemies (BUFF)
4. 2017  
   1. Interval of quickness and slow increased to 2 seconds (Nerf) AND Quickness and Slow duration increased from 1 second to 2 seconds.  Cancels each other out. No Net Gain!
   2. Skill now affects 10 targets (BUFF!)
5. 2021
   1. Reduced cooldown from 180 seconds to 120 seconds (BUFF)
   2. Skill now applies 1 second of quickness and slow per pulse (6 pulses over 5 seconds) (NERF)
      1. Previously, I believe it would give 10 or 12 seconds of quickness/slow over 10 seconds. A la, the 2017 patch!
6. 2022
   1. Reduced Target to 5

Overall, Timewarp has had its cooldown reduced from 210 seconds down to 120 seconds. Its buff/debuff time reduced from 10 or 12 seconds to 6 seconds, and had its target reduced from 10 to 5. Its lost almost half of its cooldown, in exchange for shorter skill duration and buff/debuff duration. To some people this could be considered balanced, to others not at all. Its more complicated than just looking at this one skill because Chronomancer also gets Continuum Split and Alacrity! So although the original skill had massive cooldowns, you could get them off TWICE using CS! You can still do it now, but you lose out on the longer duration slows and quickness. 

 

 

The other skill in contention is Signet of Inspiration and this skill is a hot mess. An absolute, hot mess. 

 

It had its hayday back when it shared the mesmers boons with their allies. Pair this with Arcane Thievery to steal boss boons and immediately follow up with SoI to share that goodness!  But it also could create a feedback loop of boons, and some of you may know what I am talking about. 

 

The incredibly strong boon sharing ability was fixed in 2018 when the active effect of the signet was changed to no longer share the mesmer boons, but extend the duration of all allies boons by 5 seconds. 

 

In 2019 it got nerfed/buffed again. Skill cd down from 30 seconds to 20 seconds. Duration of boon increase reduced from 5 seconds to 3 seconds. 

 

Which leaves us to whats left of SoI. It is now a solo skill unless you bring a grand master trait. And you still only get 3 seconds of boon duration! 

 

Arguments about how strong or useful chronomancers are necessary as they are really used in SOME roles for raid (Mainly DPS). However, we will always go down the rabbit hole of... "Why bring a chronotank when I can bring a healbrand tank or quickbrand tank or scrapper quicktank". Its not like Chronomancer cannot do these roles. It's just the tools that made it easier to do it (signet of inspiration for boon uptime) are being beaten to death and atomized, making playing these roles much harder. You would need a near perfect rotation and boss insight to pull off 100% quickness uptime as a quickness power dps chrono or quickness chrono tank. SoI made it easier so you afford some mistakes or help out your raid team maintain boons.

 

 

tldr; timewarp was nerfed but it got a lot in return. Signet of Inspiration is really horrible now. Chronomancer is still strong in dps role, phantasms go brrr. Chronomancer going to have a hard time in other roles because core skills keep getting nerfed.

 

 

Edited March 1, 2022 by Fate.4630
grammar

[lockhart.6048]

Hopefully they are thinking about revamping the Inspiration & Chrono line along skill tweaking. Right now, Inspi is a wreck of a support/heal line and it's compounded by the fact that zero main hand weapons are support oriented (the only helpful MH skill is Staff Chaos Storm which is meh) and the actual party utilities are either garbage for healing (mantras) or clunky (wells, glamours are super situational)

[Yoci.2481]

2 hours ago, Fate.4630 said:

Chronomancer is still an incredibly power DPS class in raids and solo. I don't play WvW so I cant speak to that end.

 

A lot of people have been saying that Mesmer is getting nerfed a lot every patch, and to some extent its true, but it also gets some things back. It's just forgotten. 

 

Just look at the patch history for TIMEWARP. I'll only list what I believe are the memorable changes

 

1. 2014
   1.  Confirmed that it affects 5 people, with 11 pulses
2. 2015
   1.  Cooldown reduced from 210 seconds to 180 (BUFF!)
3. 2015
   1. Skill is now classified as glamour (BUFF)
   2. It now pulses SLOW to enemies (BUFF)
4. 2017  
   1. Interval of quickness and slow increased to 2 seconds (Nerf) AND Quickness and Slow duration increased from 1 second to 2 seconds.  Cancels each other out. No Net Gain!
   2. Skill now affects 10 targets (BUFF!)
5. 2021
   1. Reduced cooldown from 180 seconds to 120 seconds (BUFF)
   2. Skill now applies 1 second of quickness and slow per pulse (6 pulses over 5 seconds) (NERF)
      1. Previously, I believe it would give 10 or 12 seconds of quickness/slow over 10 seconds. A la, the 2017 patch!
6. 2022
   1. Reduced Target to 5

Overall, Timewarp has had its cooldown reduced from 210 seconds down to 120 seconds. Its buff/debuff time reduced from 10 or 12 seconds to 6 seconds, and had its target reduced from 10 to 5. Its lost almost half of its cooldown, in exchange for shorter skill duration and buff/debuff duration. To some people this could be considered balanced, to others not at all. Its more complicated than just looking at this one skill because Chronomancer also gets Continuum Split and Alacrity! So although the original skill had massive cooldowns, you could get them off TWICE using CS! You can still do it now, but you lose out on the longer duration slows and quickness. 

 

 

The other skill in contention is Signet of Inspiration and this skill is a hot mess. An absolute, hot mess. 

 

It had its hayday back when it shared the mesmers boons with their allies. Pair this with Arcane Thievery to steal boss boons and immediately follow up with SoI to share that goodness!  But it also could create a feedback loop of boons, and some of you may know what I am talking about. 

 

The incredibly strong boon sharing ability was fixed in 2018 when the active effect of the signet was changed to no longer share the mesmer boons, but extend the duration of all allies boons by 5 seconds. 

 

In 2019 it got nerfed/buffed again. Skill cd down from 30 seconds to 20 seconds. Duration of boon increase reduced from 5 seconds to 3 seconds. 

 

Which leaves us to whats left of SoI. It is now a solo skill unless you bring a grand master trait. And you still only get 3 seconds of boon duration! 

 

Arguments about how strong or useful chronomancers are necessary as they are really used in SOME roles for raid (Mainly DPS). However, we will always go down the rabbit hole of... "Why bring a chronotank when I can bring a healbrand tank or quickbrand tank or scrapper quicktank". Its not like Chronomancer cannot do these roles. It's just the tools that made it easier to do it (signet of inspiration for boon uptime) are being beaten to death and atomized, making playing these roles much harder. You would need a near perfect rotation and boss insight to pull off 100% quickness uptime as a quickness power dps chrono or quickness chrono tank. SoI made it easier so you afford some mistakes or help out your raid team maintain boons.

 

 

tldr; timewarp was nerfed but it got a lot in return. Signet of Inspiration is really horrible now. Chronomancer is still strong in dps role, phantasms go brrr. Chronomancer going to have a hard time in other roles because core skills keep getting nerfed.

 

 

That is a very dishonest representation. Timewarp is a skill that has almost never seen usage in any part of the game, because it is a bad skill. Even after several buffs it was still a bad skill. Only in one very specific instance of this game, in a place that is pretty much irrelevant to the game as a whole (speedrunning raids) was this skill ever impactful in any meaningful way, and only in combination with Chronomancer. And while it may have deserved a nerf in that specific context it was and is still in dire need of a buff in all other parts of the game. Yet it got nerfed.

[xareo.2596]

2 hours ago, Fate.4630 said:

Chronomancer is still an incredibly power DPS class in raids and solo. I don't play WvW so I cant speak to that end.

 

A lot of people have been saying that Mesmer is getting nerfed a lot every patch, and to some extent its true, but it also gets some things back. It's just forgotten. 

 

Just look at the patch history for TIMEWARP. I'll only list what I believe are the memorable changes

 

1. 2014
   1.  Confirmed that it affects 5 people, with 11 pulses
2. 2015
   1.  Cooldown reduced from 210 seconds to 180 (BUFF!)
3. 2015
   1. Skill is now classified as glamour (BUFF)
   2. It now pulses SLOW to enemies (BUFF)
4. 2017  
   1. Interval of quickness and slow increased to 2 seconds (Nerf) AND Quickness and Slow duration increased from 1 second to 2 seconds.  Cancels each other out. No Net Gain!
   2. Skill now affects 10 targets (BUFF!)
5. 2021
   1. Reduced cooldown from 180 seconds to 120 seconds (BUFF)
   2. Skill now applies 1 second of quickness and slow per pulse (6 pulses over 5 seconds) (NERF)
      1. Previously, I believe it would give 10 or 12 seconds of quickness/slow over 10 seconds. A la, the 2017 patch!
6. 2022
   1. Reduced Target to 5

Overall, Timewarp has had its cooldown reduced from 210 seconds down to 120 seconds. Its buff/debuff time reduced from 10 or 12 seconds to 6 seconds, and had its target reduced from 10 to 5. Its lost almost half of its cooldown, in exchange for shorter skill duration and buff/debuff duration. To some people this could be considered balanced, to others not at all. Its more complicated than just looking at this one skill because Chronomancer also gets Continuum Split and Alacrity! So although the original skill had massive cooldowns, you could get them off TWICE using CS! You can still do it now, but you lose out on the longer duration slows and quickness. 

 

 

The other skill in contention is Signet of Inspiration and this skill is a hot mess. An absolute, hot mess. 

 

It had its hayday back when it shared the mesmers boons with their allies. Pair this with Arcane Thievery to steal boss boons and immediately follow up with SoI to share that goodness!  But it also could create a feedback loop of boons, and some of you may know what I am talking about. 

 

The incredibly strong boon sharing ability was fixed in 2018 when the active effect of the signet was changed to no longer share the mesmer boons, but extend the duration of all allies boons by 5 seconds. 

 

In 2019 it got nerfed/buffed again. Skill cd down from 30 seconds to 20 seconds. Duration of boon increase reduced from 5 seconds to 3 seconds. 

 

Which leaves us to whats left of SoI. It is now a solo skill unless you bring a grand master trait. And you still only get 3 seconds of boon duration! 

 

Arguments about how strong or useful chronomancers are necessary as they are really used in SOME roles for raid (Mainly DPS). However, we will always go down the rabbit hole of... "Why bring a chronotank when I can bring a healbrand tank or quickbrand tank or scrapper quicktank". Its not like Chronomancer cannot do these roles. It's just the tools that made it easier to do it (signet of inspiration for boon uptime) are being beaten to death and atomized, making playing these roles much harder. You would need a near perfect rotation and boss insight to pull off 100% quickness uptime as a quickness power dps chrono or quickness chrono tank. SoI made it easier so you afford some mistakes or help out your raid team maintain boons.

 

 

tldr; timewarp was nerfed but it got a lot in return. Signet of Inspiration is really horrible now. Chronomancer is still strong in dps role, phantasms go brrr. Chronomancer going to have a hard time in other roles because core skills keep getting nerfed.

 

 

how about compare horizontally with other class?

 

Feel My Wrath

30s recharge for 3s quickness + 10s fury

 

Time Warp

120s recharge for 5x(1s quickness + 1s slow)

[Veprovina.4876]

I love how in every nerf thread that has valid points, there's always the usual contrarians just being contrarian for the sake of it. 

That's why Anet hates mesmers people. Because we hate ourseves the most. 😉

[Jables.4659]

 

6 hours ago, Mell.4873 said:

They told us this for a while I don't know why you are supised. Every 10 person boon application got changed to 5.

The issue people have with the change is less about losing the 10 targets and more about the manner in which Anet did it.  They could've changed the Blurred Inscriptions bonus buff and left signet of inspiration alone.  Instead, they nerfed signet of inspiration and then made it so that blurred inscriptions restores it back to 5 targets.  I don't care about the change at all, but its not hard to understand the problem people have with it.  

[Mell.4873]

5 hours ago, Hannelore.8153 said:

The Signet wasn't changd from 10 to 5. It was changed from 5 without the trait, to 0 without. And as an Elite skill, Time Warp was hit much harder by this change than many regular skills.

 

Maybe read the topic you're replying to, which discusses the issues?

You said it yourself without the trait so it's not really changed since before with the trait it made it 10 targets, it makes sense to lower it by 5 each time. 

[Mell.4873]

5 hours ago, Hannelore.8153 said:

Balance of an already unplayed class? Chrono hasn't been meta in most of the game's content since 2018. These changes barely affect the other subclasses because their builds don't utilise these skills much, let alone depend on them for group support like the Chrono does.

I bring to strikes all the time since it does more damage verses my mirage

[anbujackson.9564]

Its one of the worst three changes (after the herald and tempest nerfs, especially herald). 

I have to point out though, that the mentaility of doing high dps while providing boons just got way out of proportion. There was nothing stopping people running 2 inspi support chronos and carrying the team with amazing boon uptime, something many groups fail in even with how stupid easy it is nowadays. 

The time warp change was awful too. Keep in mind that this elite has less value now than the well of action, which is ridicoulus.

[Xenesis.6389]

The signet shouldn't have been touched, and the trait should have been changed from 5 additional targets to like 1s added boon duration instead. But mesmers are a fancy class, they require fancy nerfs. 🤭

[Mell.4873]

3 hours ago, Xenesis.6389 said:

The signet shouldn't have been touched, and the trait should have been changed from 5 additional targets to like 1s added boon duration instead. But mesmers are a fancy class, they require fancy nerfs. 🤭

I mean that's exactly what happened minus the 1 second part. Just trait up and you can still 5 man boon share. 

Honestly it makes way more sense now since before there was no point in running the trait on supports during fractals. 

Edited March 2, 2022 by Mell.4873

[FarmBotXD.1430]

10 hours ago, necromaniac.7629 said:

I don't what tree you live under but chrono is very much still  a strong class in all of the game's content even discretize added chrono on their site so you go complain to them its not meta enough https://discretize.eu/builds/mesmer/power-chronomancer/ there is a meta chrono build in wvw too and raids speak for itself: https://snowcrows.com/builds?profession=Mesmer

To succeed as a Power Chronomancer in higher-end groups you'll need to be able to adapt your rotation on the go and push the limits of your class, but even then you will probably be a hinderance for your group.
 

[Mobian.8256]

I'll basically never forgive anet for what they did to Chronomancer, or mesmer for that matter as a whole.

Every single change they've provided has just made it worse. Some things were necessary, like the SoI nerf way back so you couldn't just give your party every boon in the game instantly lol. But what they did to SoI now just makes it basically unusable lol 

I don't like that they make it a point to just take so much away from mesmer as a whole, and provide little compensation. They do this so consistently it's kind of sickening.

I'm going to go off on a tangent here that isn't necessarily related to the topic, but it frustrates me additionally. 

I don't like that they changed mantras in a way that benefitted firebrands but hurt mesmers as a whole. 

I despise that thieves now have wells that provide alacrity instantly, basically taking what alls well that ends well used to do but it does it better since the original provided more alacrity during the final pulse instead of the first.

I hate that chrono basically is just a DPS class now instead of being a boon class. I hate that I can't provide alacrity efficiently when that was the role's main buff originally. 

It's honestly kitten that they just don't give this class anything and it's basically dead! It's beyond frustrating that they take so much away from it and just give it to some other thing. (And I really don't want to hear how amazing it is raids, please spare me.)

I also exceedingly that hate renegade took what chrono did with a single push of a button, as well as mirage being able to do the same. I don't get why it's bad when chrono does it, but every other class it's just fine. Make it make sense anet LOL 

It's beyond frustrating to see what they've done. I love this class, it's the class I've spent the most time on and I've been around since before HoTs, to see what it's become is so depressing to me. I don't want to play other classes just to feel things. I want to play mesmer how it was, I want to play chrono as it was. Of course not as a boon monster, but as something that provided a cool new boon and quickness. I literally just want it to be a time mage, as the name implies. It doesn't do that anymore. 

Though I'm basically just screaming into the void, there's nothing that's going to save this class, and it's just going to continue to be hurt with time. It doesn't matter. But even with that in mind, if there is ever a moment I can scream about chronomancer and mesmer being trash, I will. 

 

 

Edited March 14, 2022 by Mobian.8256

[Puck.3697]

On 3/1/2022 at 1:14 PM, piitb.7635 said:

They nerfed all classes.

 

 

All buffs are capped at 5 players.

 

 

You'd do us all a favor if you took 30 seconds to gander outside your myopic view

The problem is u aren't looking deep enough. 

If your going to make a decision I.E nerf all 10 man target boons by 50%. Generally you would compensate it in another way to prevent its value being lost. 

With some speccs this change has hit waaaay to hard because Anet did nothing to compensate the 50% nerf to them.