Dragon's End - Meta Frustrating Map chat - Spoiler free

[Cynder.2509]

Well, they're technically not wrong. You should learn mechanics and you should definitely know what you're doing instead just camping skill 1. Also you should definitely have a viable build for content like this. Me and a lot of other veterans are tired of carrying your kind all the time. In raids that would be an instant kick. 
This event is fine. Everything else before was too easy but now finally we got a challenge. Y'all want to start raiding but can't even do simple meta events. Wow... 
I really hope this event doesn't get nerfed because it's a great way to keep veterans and raiders challenged. It's also a great way to show less experienced players that they're definitely not ready for raids. 
You have to earn your rewards after all and this meta feels very rewarding because of its "difficulty". There's a a bunch of stuff in other mmos that's more difficult than this. 
Still the meta is new and like every new meta it needs at least a week for people to get the hang of it. Dragon's Stand and Tarir were a complete failfest back then too. Even Tequatl and Tripple Wurm were like this when they were released. That's just old tradition. 

[AlenaVolkova.8179]

Well, I mean, they put Siege Turtle behind this meta, I am sure everyone wants a turtle badly right now, not to mention we have to make 2 hours of preparation, and only to YOLO it in 30 minutes.

 

 

[Fuchslein.8639]

5 minutes ago, Cynder.2509 said:

Well, they're technically not wrong. You should learn mechanics and you should definitely know what you're doing instead just camping skill 1. Also you should definitely have a viable build for content like this. Me and a lot of other veterans are tired of carrying your kind all the time. In raids that would be an instant kick. 
This event is fine. Everything else before was too easy but now finally we got a challenge. Y'all want to start raiding but can't even do simple meta events. Wow... 
I really hope this event doesn't get nerfed because it's a great way to keep veterans and raiders challenged. It's also a great way to show less experienced players that they're definitely not ready for raids. 
You have to earn your rewards after all and this meta feels very rewarding because of its "difficulty". There's a a bunch of stuff in other mmos that's more difficult than this. 
Still the meta is new and like every new meta it needs at least a week for people to get the hang of it. Dragon's Stand and Tarir were a complete failfest back then too. Even Tequatl and Tripple Wurm were like this when they were released. That's just old tradition. 

Please speak for youreself and don't trow other people in your'e opinion. Hard content is nice, and i have no problem wasting time with newbees in raids, because not everyone Kicks them just because they are new and don't know what to do.

Also, all the stuff your'e talking about got nerved.  And why do you think it got nerved? OW is not raid-enviroment.

[AlenaVolkova.8179]

11 minutes ago, Cynder.2509 said:

You have to earn your rewards after all and this meta feels very rewarding because of its "difficulty". There's a a bunch of stuff in other mmos that's more difficult than this. 

The meta is not that rewarding, I don't need anymore unidentified gears, please.

[Shiroi Sennin.7935]

21 minutes ago, Cynder.2509 said:

Well, they're technically not wrong. You should learn mechanics and you should definitely know what you're doing instead just camping skill 1. Also you should definitely have a viable build for content like this. Me and a lot of other veterans are tired of carrying your kind all the time. In raids that would be an instant kick. 
This event is fine. Everything else before was too easy but now finally we got a challenge. Y'all want to start raiding but can't even do simple meta events. Wow... 
I really hope this event doesn't get nerfed because it's a great way to keep veterans and raiders challenged. It's also a great way to show less experienced players that they're definitely not ready for raids. 
You have to earn your rewards after all and this meta feels very rewarding because of its "difficulty". There's a a bunch of stuff in other mmos that's more difficult than this. 
Still the meta is new and like every new meta it needs at least a week for people to get the hang of it. Dragon's Stand and Tarir were a complete failfest back then too. Even Tequatl and Tripple Wurm were like this when they were released. That's just old tradition. 

Ok, we can agree the challenge is nice and fun, What is NOT FUN, and i'm sure it's the main reason people despise this meta a lot is the fact we have to invest 2 hours again for each time we want to attempt to do it. As i've said before somewhere, ANet should have made 2 versions of this meta. One being the world event, more forgiving for less skilled players, and one instanced with different difficulties for the veterans/hardcore players.
 

Also, a friend of mine told me that it's good as it is because it tells players they need to improve, and that if i wanted a better rewarding meta, just do DWC, Dragonfall or Silverwastes, and as i agree to a certain point with him, i'd say the same logic applies to him and your logic.

You want harder content? you have fractals, wvw and raids. People doesn't have to suffer everytime a newbie/lazy dude joins the map and causes everyone who's really putting all their effort's time to go to waste.

Edited March 3, 2022 by Shiroi Sennin.7935
extended

[Cynder.2509]

8 minutes ago, Fuchslein.8639 said:

Please speak for youreself and don't trow other people in your'e opinion. Hard content is nice, and i have no problem wasting time with newbees in raids, because not everyone Kicks them just because they are new and don't know what to do.

Also, all the stuff your'e talking about got nerved.  And why do you think it got nerved? OW is not raid-enviroment.

What nerf? I couldn't experience any nerf at all on the affected classes. People just need to get better at rotations and get at least full ascended gear which isn't hard anymore. I thought people want an introduction to raiding. Strikes failed horribly at that as they were nowhere near raid level. Even raids including CMs aren't that hard either once you know your stuff. The main issue is just taht all go full DPS at these events and then there's a lack of boon supporters and healers. I noticed that mostly alac and swiftness are the main missing boons but these are just as important as might and fury. Squads for this meta event should be made with the composition in mind. Subgroups can be very helpful for that. Each subgroup should have one healer, 1 quickness, 1 alac, 1 banner and rest DPS. Maybe even asking for 500li to enter could help there to make sure people on this map are experienced. 
 

 

15 minutes ago, AlenaVolkova.8179 said:

The meta is not that rewarding, I don't need anymore unidentified gears, please.

You can sell these, you know that, right? It's not much but it's still extra money. All metas are money farms anyways. 

[Fuchslein.8639]

7 minutes ago, Cynder.2509 said:

What nerf? I couldn't experience any nerf at all on the affected classes. People just need to get better at rotations and get at least full ascended gear which isn't hard anymore. I thought people want an introduction to raiding. Strikes failed horribly at that as they were nowhere near raid level. Even raids including CMs aren't that hard either once you know your stuff. The main issue is just taht all go full DPS at these events and then there's a lack of boon supporters and healers. I noticed that mostly alac and swiftness are the main missing boons but these are just as important as might and fury. Squads for this meta event should be made with the composition in mind. Subgroups can be very helpful for that. Each subgroup should have one healer, 1 quickness, 1 alac, 1 banner and rest DPS. Maybe even asking for 500li to enter could help there to make sure people on this map are experienced. 
 

 

You can sell these, you know that, right? It's not much but it's still extra money. All metas are money farms anyways. 

I was talking about the metas, HOT, triple trouble, teq, all got nerved. Some even more than one time. And i bet this new meta will also get under the Hammer.

And as i waid, OW is no raid-enviroment.

Alone that you do not seem to understand why you are missing all these boons ... this is a map with more than 10 people. Including people who only play for a few hours a week. I bet you would be the last one who would be willing to organize a complete map with absolute strangers, create and sort squads ect all that would be necessary to have the same conditions as in raids.

Dont ask for thing which you cant provide youreself.

Edited March 3, 2022 by Fuchslein.8639

[Shiroi Sennin.7935]

3 minutes ago, Cynder.2509 said:

. Maybe even asking for 500li to enter could help there to make sure people on this map are experienced. 

Please allow me to disagree with this. This is not a raid, you can't make a squad in this map with the mindset of a raid squad expecting they're fully trained. Even if you made the squad and asked for LI and people lied to you, you can't kick them from the map.

[Fuchslein.8639]

1 minute ago, Shiroi Sennin.7935 said:

Please allow me to disagree with this. This is not a raid, you can't make a squad in this map with the mindset of a raid squad expecting they're fully trained. Even if you made the squad and asked for LI and people lied to you, you can't kick them from the map.

The fact that he want to ask for li for a ow-meta, an OPEN MAP ... lol

[Carcharoth Lucian.1378]

To be fair, some Raids are easier and less dps checks than this meta.

Also @Cynder.2509, you remember Serpents's Ire? It is challenging. Did it force the players to improve? Spoiler : no and nobody run it (some ppl don't even know it)

Edited March 3, 2022 by Carcharoth Lucian.1378

[Hotride.2187]

The (only) meta I did yesterday, which failed, had that the players were "noob"/"trash"/"garbage" comments in the chat.

And probably those same people go "pvP Is TOxIc". Anyway. Its just chat, who cares.

[Okhu.7948]

People are venting their frustration at the constant failure of pugs. Even when it is explained repeatedly, they don't listen. I had that problem with the people in Echovald Meta not listening and dying until I started fuming and telling them to follow my tag aggressively. Then they finally started following my tag to where they go to not instantly die and we won the meta. If you don't want to be called smooth brained don't literally stand there and soak aoes because you think people will rez you. (Which they normally will sadly.) Have some awareness. Pull your camera out so you can see damage around / underneath you. Is that so hard?

[Amanda Whitemoon.6173]

you know what the big problem with this meta is: 

 

it can be grieved, a single bad apple can screw up the 2 crystal wisp fases and basicly screw the time to win

 

i wonder how often it has happened already

[Jokubas.4265]

I was coming here to make a thread like this myself. I've had a nice, relaxing time playing the expansion so far. I didn't even plan on doing the meta right now until the bonus achievement implied I would get a True Ending for beating the meta first.

So I helped with a meta that started late and didn't make it to the boss by just a little bit, and I had to restart my game for an update anyway. Then I started all the way over and helped a meta from the very beginning and had to wait the whole time for the main part to start.

Everything was fine until we got to the boss. Almost as soon as the boss started, insults started being thrown all over the place. Mechanics were being referenced in vague terms, and anyone who didn't instantly understand were harassed. People were told not to do a mechanic if they were new, but after the mechanic happened, they were yelled at for not doing it. You wouldn't know the expansion just came out at the beginning of the week with the attitude of players who called anyone dumb who didn't already know the boss in and out. If they weren't serious they certainly weren't using any humor in their words.

I didn't even mind the boss fight too much itself. I'm sure with time the playerbase will start to get used to it and it'll mostly work out, like similar bosses have in the past. The problem was the sheer rudeness of half the people participating. It would have ruined my whole night had the achievement actually required beating the boss, not just participating.

Edited March 3, 2022 by Jokubas.4265
Tried to fix paragraph spacing

[Winola.8214]

5 hours ago, Cynder.2509 said:

This event is fine. Everything else before was too easy but now finally we got a challenge. Y'all want to start raiding but can't even do simple meta events. Wow... 

I really hope this event doesn't get nerfed because it's a great way to keep veterans and raiders challenged. It's also a great way to show less experienced players that they're definitely not ready for raids. 

Umm, I doubt honestly that raiding is an aspirational goal for many and the raiding community does an excellent job letting new players know they are not welcome already. I don't think it needed another tool to show people the door. 

Now, I don't play raids a lot mostly because I play in bursts of being super active and then being gone for a while which doesn't lend itself to a static, but the last few clears I did were mechanically easier than this fight. The only thing I found really comparable to the PUG raiding experience is the abuse players are subjected to. The event is three days old and already we are tagging things with "experienced only" and "must know mechanics" when there's not even a comprehensive wiki page yet. 

And this be why raiders and hardcore endgame players can't have nice things. If the community runs off people who try and punishes them with abuse the group of players tackling such content won't grow and the devs will struggle to justify for the dev time for new raids if only 3% of the player base will thrive in that ecosystem. 

So I don't think this meta will give us raid ready players. 

Also, tying this meta up with a one time unique reward doesn't help. After the bad experiences people make they'll not want to come back to practice because there is nothing there to keep them going. If it awarded say decent gold people would come and try over and over. The way it is now people will unlock turtle and get out. 

And I do think we all have some responsibility to try and mitigate the behaviour in map chat. Just ignoring it is not a solution. This is fine: https://www.theverge.com/2016/5/5/11592622/this-is-fine-meme-comic . 

[Zeike.7469]

So I've done this a few times now, and failed all. People call it the "No Green' Strategy. It's essentially skipping a mechanic built in the game. In all 4 runs, no one has explained what 'No green' means, I've found out for myself and educating people letting them know what it is, and why it's being done. 

 

As a Comm, I'd expect this to be explained by them if that is the strategy they are leading with. Theres plenty of time to explain it. Some run with the strategy, some dont. It's confusing, the fight is hard but the difficulty doesn't bother me, what bothers me whas the level of abuse from comms, doomsayers shouting fail every 2 seconds, and those elitist who are calling out people for not knowing to skip a boss mechanic. I've explained this sadly on my last attempt and still people ran into it, it was said in Squad, Map and Say.  

 

People are calling Anet to fix this.. on one hand I agree, if people have to skip an entire mechanic to have a better chance at beating the boss speaks to me that either everyone isn't geared, or the boss isn't tuned. Sadly my close friend has quit on this basis that the turtle mastery is locked behind a boss that is fairly hard, he's not a raider nor should he have to be to do a meta event.

 

On the other hand, I like the difficulty, provided the rewards are insanely worth it, but sticking a mastery behind it means your reliant on others to know what they're doing. 

 

On a positive note, the failures obviously make you want to keep doing it again so mastery bars are just going up and up and up. So thats good at least.

[eth.4619]

I've seen some really well explained meta attempts by commanders and the community only to still fail, so simply saying that clear instructions need to be given isn't fair. There are plenty of people who don't pay attention, or worse, have map chat turned off  (a couple people in this thread have hinted they do that).

How do you suggest explaining to 100 people if some don't pay attention, or worse, have chat blocked, when it only takes a couple people to completely screw over every one else?

I agree that attacking people is not okay.  Saying things like 'jump/dodge/tail" aren't valuable in the moment, however, I've been on many meta attempts and it's almost always explained well before the fight starts what needs to be done. Most people shouting during the fight are giving quick reminders of what phase you're in (as are the NPCs btw!).

Also, I think it's disingenuous to not acknowledge that SOME people might be a tad bitter or frustrated after constantly failing to win the meta. That feeling when you've been trying for 2 days straight to win a meta that is required for a highly desired collection, spending up to 2 hours just in the prep phase only to KNOW you won't win if by like 6 minutes in (14 minutes left in the fight) you haven't killed the first 2 champions. A lot of people have done the fight enough to know where the benchmarks of where you need to be by specific times. You'd have to have god levels of patience if you wouldn't be at least a bit frustrated.

The players didn't create this situation, ANet did. It's a very tightly tuned meta, with a very unforgiving FRESH timer at the very end, meaning all your work up until the very last moment is meaningless.

I'm sorry you and your friend had a bad experience, so have the rest of us.

[Xorthos.6947]

The issue isn't just people needing to learn it.  Some people in open world don't want to do mechanics, they want to derrrrrrrr through everything.  Most meta's can handle a few of these.

 

The problem with this meta, is you can have one troll or one knucklehead not listening screw it up for literally 70-80 people and waste two hours of their time.  No open world event in the game should be reliant on 100% of people doing the right thing.

 

My last 3 failures, I've had someone stand in green and just chill at the bottom trolling.   One of them sat down there and was literally spamming squad saying "wow this meta is super fun!" while we're telling them to get back up.

 

A meta that can be failed by a single person trolling is not a well designed open world event.

Edited March 3, 2022 by Xorthos.6947

[Sleepwalker.1398]

First time today i went to this map.
Very first run.
I was PM by a few telling me that i troll them, 1 person also decided to type my account name in map chat and asking others to report me for standing in green circle.
This mechanic is bad really for any new player coming to this map cos im pretty sure there is a dialog when this happens and Aurene saying i will protect you.
So im sure there will be confusion and lots of unhappy ppl and someone new to the map cursed out.

[Cynder.2509]

1 hour ago, Xorthos.6947 said:

The issue isn't just people needing to learn it.  Some people in open world don't want to do mechanics, they want to derrrrrrrr through everything.  Most meta's can handle a few of these.

 

The problem with this meta, is you can have one troll or one knucklehead not listening screw it up for literally 70-80 people and waste two hours of their time.  No open world event in the game should be reliant on 100% of people doing the right thing.

 

My last 3 failures, I've had someone stand in green and just chill at the bottom trolling.   One of them sat down there and was literally spamming squad saying "wow this meta is super fun!" while we're telling them to get back up.

 

A meta that can be failed by a single person trolling is not a well designed open world event.

And that is why we need a function to kick people from a map. This way you can definitely avoid trolls and let people in who aren't chumbrains. 

[LucianDK.8615]

10 failures, 8 in the low 10s that ran out of time. 2 was the boss bugging out.

[Shiroi Sennin.7935]

14 minutes ago, Cynder.2509 said:

And that is why we need a function to kick people from a map. This way you can definitely avoid trolls and let people in who aren't chumbrains. 

Really?... I mean, are you serious? that will only make things worse once toxic, despot commanders start kicking people just because they didn't follow zealously their instructions.

[Morridir.3962]

I feel there are a few core issues:

- Having even one player not understand/want to work in a core mechanic destroys the entire event for everyone. This is incredibly frustrating for the others.

- The design of the event itself is good, however the event is clearly not geared towards having casuals participate. Locking a good amount of core content behind the event and even creting a special achievement in the storyline for it means you push casual players towards the event.

- The event should not be a dps check. It should stay challenging, but the challenge shouldn't be focused on 'how high can my numbers be', but rather on 'how well do I understand the mechanics'. 

 

I've got a few casual friends with families, and as is right now I can't in good conscience invite them to play with me on the final map, which is ridiculous for the open world. 

 

I understand Anet prefers to overpower the bosses at first and then nerf them instead of doing the opposite since it's easier to nerf than to boost and it might lead to slightly higher sales of boosters, but I believe for the majority of players the current status is just frustrating. I'm 90% sure that there will be some changes implemented to make the battle less dependent on literally everyone reacting as they should and having high end dps as otherwise Anet is going to see a decent exodus of active players. Personally, seeing the event failing over and over again, even with good commanders and solid dps has just frustrated me, so I'll be taking a break for some time.

[Zeike.7469]

5 hours ago, eth.4619 said:

I've seen some really well explained meta attempts by commanders and the community only to still fail, so simply saying that clear instructions need to be given isn't fair. There are plenty of people who don't pay attention, or worse, have map chat turned off  (a couple people in this thread have hinted they do that).

How do you suggest explaining to 100 people if some don't pay attention, or worse, have chat blocked, when it only takes a couple people to completely screw over every one else?

I agree that attacking people is not okay.  Saying things like 'jump/dodge/tail" aren't valuable in the moment, however, I've been on many meta attempts and it's almost always explained well before the fight starts what needs to be done. Most people shouting during the fight are giving quick reminders of what phase you're in (as are the NPCs btw!).

Also, I think it's disingenuous to not acknowledge that SOME people might be a tad bitter or frustrated after constantly failing to win the meta. That feeling when you've been trying for 2 days straight to win a meta that is required for a highly desired collection, spending up to 2 hours just in the prep phase only to KNOW you won't win if by like 6 minutes in (14 minutes left in the fight) you haven't killed the first 2 champions. A lot of people have done the fight enough to know where the benchmarks of where you need to be by specific times. You'd have to have god levels of patience if you wouldn't be at least a bit frustrated.

The players didn't create this situation, ANet did. It's a very tightly tuned meta, with a very unforgiving FRESH timer at the very end, meaning all your work up until the very last moment is meaningless.

I'm sorry you and your friend had a bad experience, so have the rest of us.

 

I've said that one of the issues is people are not giving clear instructions, thats one issue out of a few that I posted based on my findings. It is fair to say given that in the now 7 attempts (14 Hours) I've been in it hasn't been explained by the Comm or others. I've been the one to explain the tactics and I'm not comming.

 

The last 5 or so I explained things to a specifics and it was done on Say, Map and Squad, people still ran inside it. One attempt, Comm just stood in the green himself so people just got confused. 

 

Communication is a big key in this, but it isn't the only factor to get this done. It's frustrating. There isn't a suggestion, I'm merely posting my findings based on my experience. I cannot base it on anyone elses but my own. As for the doomsayers, the ones I've had were not saying it out of frustration they were spamming it and annoying people in chat. Luckily last run was just a nice "Gg all nice try" 

 

All in all things will get better the more people get the hang of it. I just think they need to remove the phase that people are skipping, it's clearly a massive delay for people. 

[KeoLegend.5132]

Aww don't be such a Snowflake. Its not like someone cursed your parents or send you somewhere.

The meta is amazing and being hard also makes it fun when we succeed. But until then, well, thats a lot of fails, and those 2 hard hours spent gives everyone right to be angry. 

When im in process to learn something ppl usualy get that much angry, sometimes even worse, but i really understand that at the end everyone just want to complete de challenge. The same ppl that are rude, are also praising when the job is done (most of them, at least). In short, ignore and just keep trying until you learn. 

I love the first week of New Meta because thats when the hardship happens all over the place. After that it becomes a boring sneeze-fest of farming