An Update On End of Dragons Map Population

[Rubi Bayer.8493]

Hi all,

We want to thank you for all the feedback you're providing as you play End of Dragons. We're keeping an eye on player conversations across all expansion gameplay and features.

One of the things we're taking a close look at is map population in Cantha. On Tuesday we made an adjustment to improve player distribution across map instances, and today we made a change to increase the maximum player capacity in Seitung Province, New Kaineng City, and the Echovald Wilds by about 30%. We're not making changes to player capacity in the Jade Sea map at this time.

We're taking these steps to make sure we can balance player population without negatively impacting your gameplay performance, so we'll continue to monitor!

[Yolanda.8416]

It's nice to hear that you're increasing player crowds on these maps.
But why is nothing changed at Dragons End the meta keeps failing and this is addressed everywhere.
It can't be that you want the card to die out because nobody wants to do it anymore.

[Dreggon.6598]

16 minutes ago, Rubi Bayer.8493 said:

today we made a change to increase the maximum player capacity in Seitung Province, New Kaineng City, and the Echovald Wilds by about 30%.

Hooray!

16 minutes ago, Rubi Bayer.8493 said:

We're not making changes to Dragon's End at this time.

oh

[anduriell.6280]

i would like to share something with you as a constructive feedback  in my experience: 

• If you tag up (I do mentor in EoD) peeps will show up. Few thou.  So pop i don't really feel is  not like a real problem
• However the map population feels empty (see the emphasis) .
• This may due to map bad dynamic events distribution. You got 3~4 maps in the expansion still the events do not work. 
• Constant calls in Arborstone is annoying and players learn Ads "blindness". Hearings in even faster/easier than sight, that's why we don't not have no modern ads with audio. You did not get the right approach to it. Check SW for a well done approach. 
• Every approach is kind of a mix bag: Some are genius other are not good. You have a massive player base: Utilize it. 

Maps design are gorgeous. I meant this in bold. God <swearing stuff> you have amazing environmental designers and that 3d skill is very very rare. Music <more +18 swearing> is amazing i  can not wait for BSO. And i hear a lot of stuff but kitten. 

Any other aspect is lacking. This is a "gam as a service" thing, this "other stuff" is what keeps the game going . UE5 will really hurt mmos . Really. Do please love your franchise: get you stuff shorted. 

 

[Forgotten Legend.9281]

there are 3-4 things that can be done for Dragon's End:

 

1) (MUST) the green circles in final boss fight need to change colour, because they're deceptive. green means safe, but that's not what they do.

2) player cap increased: the current population cap seems to be too small.

OR

3) timer lengthened on end boss to allow current player cap to succeed

3b) with a longer timer, a guild mission or private instance of 50 people would be able to have another challenging world boss mode, like Marionette and IBS final meta, with their public and private instances..

Edited March 4, 2022 by Forgotten Legend.9281

[who want blood.8765]

2 hours ago, Forgotten Legend.9281 said:

3) timer lengthened on end boss to allow current player cap to succeed

 

Or add the time remaining from the pre-event onto the boss's timer, this would ensure at least 40% more successful runs with large coordinated squads imho

[redpillshark.4827]

nice post

[TheQuickFox.3826]

Nice job so far. I rather see some conservative instance population than unstable or laggy servers.

The launch of EoD has been the smoothest major release by far. This includes the 2012 GW2 release, HoT and PoF.

 

Congrats on the results so far!

[Noro.2879]

I'm very glad that I got to complete Dragon's End before the community beats you guys into submission regarding nerfing it 🙂

 

It's nice having open world content that actually takes some coordination and effort.

 

I may not be among the majority, but thanks for that experience. It has been a long time since things have been this way and it's refreshing.

[arawulf.5210]

EDIT. Thank you Rubi for updating the post to clarify this statement!

 

"We're not making changes to Dragon's End at this time." to now read, "We're not making changes to player capacity in the Jade Sea map at this time." 

 ---------------

That line right there just took the wind out of my sails. I'm sure it doesn't mean, "We're never changing it, deal with it!" but it sort of feels that way. You've created a breathtaking world, a story that made me cry, and then when I go to play after the story I'm hit by a brick wall of frustration due to a meta that just isn't working for many, many people. I've logged into many maps where there is simply failure after failure. I'm all for difficulty ... but the thing is, the siege turtle was a major part of the marketing for this game and something where an expectation of accessibility was created. The Griffon, Roller Beatle, and Skyscale were never used in the original POF marketing, but even in those cases, I never experienced the frustration I'm experiencing with the Dragon's End meta. 

I trust you to do the right thing, but statements like this are deflating (in my humble opinion). 

If this design is firmly in place with no expectation of any change, so be it. I just expected more, that's all. 

Edited March 4, 2022 by arawulf.5210
updated due to community team response

[arawulf.5210]

24 minutes ago, BANNED.9527 said:

I'm very glad that I got to complete Dragon's End before the community beats you guys into submission regarding nerfing it 🙂

 

It's nice having open world content that actually takes some coordination and effort.

 

I may not be among the majority, but thanks for that experience. It has been a long time since things have been this way and it's refreshing.

I know the feeling of accomplishment when achieving something that many find difficult. Congrats, seriously. I only wish that my schedule, community of friends, and the several maps I've logged into had afforded me the same experience as you. At this time, I remain turtle-less. Folks that have the turtle already have given me plenty of advice - advice that was not needed for every other mount I have (I have all but warclaw). Again, I'm all for difficult content...but I'm of the opinion that putting the turtle behind it was a bad move. Again, grats to you and all who have the turtle mount.

[matthewr.3980]

I never post on this forum, but I felt a need to communicate directly to ArenaNet on this topic.

The problem, at least for me, isn't that maps aren't allowing enough players on them, but that there aren't enough players on the maps.

It really takes the wind out of your sails when you finally get to Cantha and start exploring the first map and you see maybe one or two other players tops. It really hinders your fun when you come across events, but there aren't any other players around to help complete it, so you fail on your own. It really sucks a lot of the fun out of trying to experience a new expansion when you feel like you're playing a single player game.

I understand and have been told that I can use the Looking for Group finder to jump to maps that are more populated. And I have used that feature many times in the past when doing Meta events like in HoT or PoF. But I don't want to have to keep my LFG finder up at all times when playing this expansion as the only way to play the new maps with other players. I just want to log-in and explore the new maps.

In my many years of playing this game, I have been notified by the game many times that the map I'm playing on is running low on players and I can be escorted to a more populated map. But I haven't had this prompt appear for me one time while playing in Cantha. Why is that, when it clearly seems to me the maps are very under-populated.

Please make this a main concern going forward. As we speak, I've trying to give this expansion more chances. The story is decent. The maps are beautiful. But Elden Ring is calling my name as well, and if I have to decide between playing it or a single-player MMORPG, I think we both know where I'll end up. I don't want this sole issue to ruin the expansion for me and others.

Thank you for your continued work.

Edited March 4, 2022 by matthewr.3980

[Xorthos.6947]

6 hours ago, Forgotten Legend.9281 said:

1) (MUST) the green circles in final boss fight need to change colour, because they're deceptive. green means safe, but that's not what they do.

 

Green for almost all events in GW2 don't mean safe.  It means "stand in this to do the mechanic of the fight".  Technically green is the appropriate color for those circles, it's just that it has a follow up mechanic that folks aren't doing properly.

[Tiamat.8254]

I haven't had time to go to Cantha yet ☹️ hopefully I'll have time this weekend. That will be one more person in the maps! 😅

[Bakeneko.5826]

So, the most problemtic map is seeing no changes?

[KurokouNekoki.7891]

1 hour ago, Xorthos.6947 said:

Green for almost all events in GW2 don't mean safe.  It means "stand in this to do the mechanic of the fight".  Technically green is the appropriate color for those circles, it's just that it has a follow up mechanic that folks aren't doing properly.

1. Due to the lack of colorblindness options, Green => Red for me... So it is an Avoid at all cost, but at the same time I learned the mechanic and do it properly, but 2. we had to find alternatives to the massive issues it has (namely 3. the players behaviors).

[Knamliss.9148]

10 hours ago, Forgotten Legend.9281 said:

1) (MUST) the green circles in final boss fight need to change colour, because they're deceptive. green means safe, but that's not what they do.

 

 

This just isn't true, greens do mean safe in this scenario. If they're not covered by enough players the entire platform takes massive damage resulting in everyone dying. Currently people are circumventing it, by gliding off and getting far enough away from the platform, or eating the death respawning and running back. Both of those options are faster than an average player doing a wisp phase.

If you send no one in greens period, it just stalls the event forcing everyone to wait the 2 minutes and you're left with 0 crystals to use as cover for the wave/wipe mechanic. But as long as one person gets sent it checks off the mechanic, and the amount of time the squad takes ressing and running back is about the same as the experienced player running a wisp. (Which is less than the 2 minute timer on the mechanic).

Previously before today's patch people were sending one person to get whisp'd, then having them use their personal jade waypoint to get back extremely quickly. After the fix to the WP now organized groups including the one I got my turtle in are sending anywhere between 3 and 5 experienced players for whisps, but it's still wiping the entire platform unless you glide.

 

It's still silly that people are eating an entire mechanic because it's easier to do than trusting everyone to do whisps. There's no incentive to do them when you can send 1-5 experienced people and bark angrily at others to make sure they don't stand in it, then run back after dying. The entire mechanic is just flawed, among other things. Doing whisps properly should earn you more time, or more damage in the form of a debuff on the boss, or both.

Edited March 4, 2022 by Knamliss.9148

[KurokouNekoki.7891]

44 minutes ago, Knamliss.9148 said:

 

This just isn't true, greens do mean safe in this scenario. If they're not covered by enough players the entire platform takes massive damage resulting in everyone dying. Currently people are circumventing it, by gliding off and getting far enough away from the platform, or eating the death respawning and running back. Both of those options are faster than an average player doing a wisp phase.

And people forgetting that there is 50% of people who are colorblind in this forsaken world who tries their best in a game with a complete "official" absence of accessibility...
#GreenOnGreenOnGreenOnGreen (Rephrased into #RedOnRedOnRedOnRed for some people (me included))

[Forgotten Legend.9281]

on additional thought: the wisp part seems to be an additional challenge mote type mechanic... and in my opinion, should only be required in the private instance i suggested, when the challenge mote is activated :P The only drawback, of course, is that a mastery point is awarded if you wisp your way to your body without being hit. so maybe it's not that great of an idea.

[Rubi Bayer.8493]

Good morning all, I was just catching up on this thread and realized that there may be some confusion here. When I said "We are not making changes to Dragon's End at this time" I was referring to the player capacity in that map. I've changed the sentence in my post to read " We're not making changes to player capacity in the Jade Sea map at this time."

The conversation surrounding the actual map content is a different one. (We are keeping an eye on feedback about all parts of End of Dragons!) This one is entirely on me--I'm sorry about the confusion on that. This update is only about player capacity in the expansion maps!

[Xorthos.6947]

1 minute ago, Rubi Bayer.8493 said:

Good morning all, I was just catching up on this thread and realized that there may be some confusion here. When I said "We are not making changes to Dragon's End at this time" I was referring to the player capacity in that map. I've changed the sentence in my post to read " We're not making changes to player capacity in the Jade Sea map at this time."

The conversation surrounding the actual map content is a different one. (We are keeping an eye on feedback about all parts of End of Dragons!) This one is entirely on me--I'm sorry about the confusion on that. This update is only about player capacity in the expansion maps!

I think people understood, they just wanted more people to be able to get into the map so we can actually zerg down this overtuned meta lol.

[KurokouNekoki.7891]

2 minutes ago, Rubi Bayer.8493 said:

Good morning all, I was just catching up on this thread and realized that there may be some confusion here. When I said "We are not making changes to Dragon's End at this time" I was referring to the player capacity in that map. I've changed the sentence in my post to read " We're not making changes to player capacity in the Jade Sea map at this time."

The conversation surrounding the actual map content is a different one. (We are keeping an eye on feedback about all parts of End of Dragons!) This one is entirely on me--I'm sorry about the confusion on that. This update is only about player capacity in the expansion maps!

No Biggy Rubi, this was definitively insinuated from the wording! 
Do keep us up to date though with further development!

[Blaeys.3102]

21 minutes ago, Rubi Bayer.8493 said:

Good morning all, I was just catching up on this thread and realized that there may be some confusion here. When I said "We are not making changes to Dragon's End at this time" I was referring to the player capacity in that map. I've changed the sentence in my post to read " We're not making changes to player capacity in the Jade Sea map at this time."

The conversation surrounding the actual map content is a different one. (We are keeping an eye on feedback about all parts of End of Dragons!) This one is entirely on me--I'm sorry about the confusion on that. This update is only about player capacity in the expansion maps!

I know your team is in game alot, but you should definitely have multiple developers/QA personnel in Dragon's End right now experiencing first hand what it is like for your players who are struggling to a - even get on a map through the LFG and b - are spending 2-3 hours in the pre event/meta only to be frustrated with the results.  

 

On many maps, the morale is dropping lower with each hour right now (mostly associated with the turtle acquisition) - and that is something developers should be aware of/reacting to in some way.  It isn't a sustainable situation and, because of the length of the event, you're more likely to see people giving up rather than struggle with it any longer.

[arawulf.5210]

50 minutes ago, Rubi Bayer.8493 said:

Good morning all, I was just catching up on this thread and realized that there may be some confusion here. When I said "We are not making changes to Dragon's End at this time" I was referring to the player capacity in that map. I've changed the sentence in my post to read " We're not making changes to player capacity in the Jade Sea map at this time."

The conversation surrounding the actual map content is a different one. (We are keeping an eye on feedback about all parts of End of Dragons!) This one is entirely on me--I'm sorry about the confusion on that. This update is only about player capacity in the expansion maps!

 

Thanks for the clarification Rubi! I'm glad to see that you're all reading the feedback. Many of us are "caring" very loudly right now, obviously. 

[Lithril Ashwalker.6230]

A fatal design flaw I've noticed especially in the jade sea area for the Meta is even if we beat the last boss and take the third Camp the timer still counts down and it counts down during the interlogue between the Ally NPCS and if they're not finished talkin by the time the timer is finished we still failed the map. This needs to change to as soon as the camps done the timer stops and then we can move on to the next phase.

 

The AOE circles are green in this Meta and people will constantly end up dying and cause the Meta to fail so they need to be changed to be taken as "don't stand in it"