End of Dragons is a disappointing mess

[Jaunty.6018]

First off, the environmental design is awful.  After playing EoD for hours I had to go visit old cities from 9 years ago to remind myself that the game is still beautiful.  New Kaineng in particular is a massive eyesore...I can't even begin to understand their design philosophy here.  All the copy/pasted windows, textures and other assets are almost deliberately lazy, and you've got these unfinished looking concrete buildings surrounding everything, overlapping/clipping assets galore, and architecture that makes zero sense aesthetically or functionally with a mess of zip lines and jade bot interactive objects littered throughout.  Some of the assets themselves look great, but they're thrown together in a way that has no regard for scene composition.  And that's if you can actually see them through the blinding post processing during the day.  I cannot believe people think this city is beautiful.  It is large for the sake of being large, a chore to navigate, and feels empty despite having so much housing.  Where is everyone?  Quarantine?

 

And why aren't the areas built around mounts, with PoF-style challenges, puzzles, or at the very least some architecture that acknowledges you have a skyscale?  Many of us have had these things for a long time now, and did so much to earn them -- I was hoping for some real content specifically designed for them.  Yet, the areas are also not built for the enjoyment of people without mounts.  The raptor taxis are cool, but the ziplines are so lazily implemented and placed (especially in Kaineng) that I just can't imagine having to suffer this expansion without mounts, or wanting to.  Especially in the Echovald Wilds, a monotonous cluster of vines.

 

Getting back to aesthetics, there's also the green screen colored jade material showered all over the continent with complete disregard for surrounding colors.  I understand it is central to the plot, but they just dump it on everything.  Across the whole expansion the lighting, shadowing, colors, architecture, and camera work are so unbelievably amateurish, and that extends to the elite class skills as well.  My new ranger spec looks like everything's covered in snot, complete with exploding booger skills.  Yum!

 

Some have argued "Well it's an old game, what do you expect?"  Really?  Go revisit Black Citadel, Divinity's Reach, The Grove, Hoelbrak, or Rata Sum.  They are still gorgeously designed.  All the vanilla leveling areas are still a joy to look at and play in.  I still never get tired of hanging around Queensdale.  It's not about the graphical technology; it's about art design.  I seriously don't understand how Anet can put out an expansion that looks more dated, and yet performs worse, than the 9-year-old base content.  Even GW1 had far better art design.  There's also a distinct lack of shadows.  If you go through various areas and turn on/off shadows you'll see what I mean.  What happened there?

 

As for the new features, the fishing is basically ripped from Stardew Valley and is too involving and annoying to be the relaxing social activity it was supposed to be.  How are you supposed to have a conversation with someone fishing next to you when you're too busy staring at two bars and typing "232323232323232232323"?  The skiffs are only there to allow you to fish, which again, is not very enjoyable; otherwise, their usability is surpassed by the skimmer.  Tying the skiffs and fishing together with one button, and having to switch between them from that tiny panel was also a mistake, making fishing on a skiff more cumbersome than it aught to be.  Moving on, the jade bots are mostly useless because most of us have griffons or skyscales.  Those who don't, again, are going to suffer.  I can't speak for the other elite specs but untamed booger hammer is absolutely the worst one yet for the ranger and I'm already back to Soulbeast.  And the turtle?  Well, I guess he's good for Ubering your SO around or walking slowly on the bottom of the ocean floor, if you're into that sort of thing.  Not at all worth the trouble to try to get one.

 

I won't comment on the story because, based on what I've observed here, I'd like this post to survive more than five minutes without a mod nuking it.  Omitting that, it might survive 20.  Maybe.

 

No actual guild wars, still.  No player housing.  No new race.  No new PvP/WvW content despite being Factions-inspired.  Lack of interesting events.  Lack of maps.  No addressing issues that players have been complaining about for years.  No anything that is remotely interesting or exciting.  Hell, they couldn't even get "Cat Island" right.  Just a few copy / pasted cats on a rock.  I expected to be assaulted with cuteness.  What a missed opportunity.

 

Lastly, I've had the game crash on me SO MANY TIMES during missions, causing me to have to repeat them from the beginning.  What in the world is going on?  I never had this issue during PoF or HoT or any of the living story content.  A crash once in a blue moon, yeah, but not over and over again.  Nothing like having a mission crash right at the end after you've done a bunch of highly intellectually stimulating Simon Says mini-games, only to do it all over again. 

 

*sigh*

 

The music is nice, at least, and it's great to have the same voice actors reprising their roles after all these years.  I will give them points for that.  The audio department did their jobs well.  But what a huge letdown overall this expansion is otherwise. 

 

I know this post will be absolutely crapped on by most everyone in this forum, and that's fine.  Many of you are happy that we're even getting new content at all.  I get that, and I'm not here to ruin your fun.  I'm not going to try to tell you that the fun you are having right now is not, in fact, fun.  I want you to have fun.  In this covid-infested war-ridden world, we all need a little escapism.  In the grand scheme of things, it's pretty silly to complain so much about a video game.  But also, we paid Anet -- they have our money, under the assumption that they would provide a quality product reminiscent of their previous work.  In my eyes, and many I've seen on this forum and elsewhere, they did not deliver.  I'm not even sure who they are anymore.  Much like Blizzard with WoW, most of the key original Arenanet devs are gone, and what we have now is a new studio with a new vision, and what appears to be either a clear disregard for the old one, or the lack of expertise to continue it.  I don't know what they're trying to accomplish here, but it's not the Guild Wars I know.  And yet still, without supporting them we get nothing new, the story doesn't continue, and the future of GW becomes uncertain.  I'm not exactly sure how I feel about that decision.  I guess they can keep my money, in hopes that they'll learn and do better next time.  But once I'm done with EoD, if I even decide to keep playing it, I'm not looking back.

 

Edit: I posted some screenshots later on down the thread demonstrating the careless environmental design.  Figured I'd edit them into my original post.  Only took me about 15 minutes to find these -- you don't have to have a keen eye or go off the beaten path to encounter them.  They're everywhere. 

 

https://ibb.co/0YPcrFy
https://ibb.co/zNgxNVq
https://ibb.co/0Y0yRLC
https://ibb.co/PG2wBZ0
https://ibb.co/j5JMByp
https://ibb.co/k6C7vXd
https://ibb.co/42JbTQR
https://ibb.co/p1wNGxB
https://ibb.co/YZxnf5N
https://ibb.co/JnM7D2C
https://ibb.co/9ZBQbFX

Edited March 7, 2022 by Jaunty.6018
Added screenshots

[Exxcalibur.6203]

Yup. 

 

Map 1 is one of the prettiest and least engaging maps ever.  Playing in gardens with a few token enemies isnt my idea of fantasy fun.

 

And Bjora Marches and Icebrood was such great game design. Oh well, at least its only 20% of the game, if that. 

[Einsof.1457]

The story felt a bit rushed, and the writing was quite poor, but besides that I love everything about it. Environments are awesome.  I would rather have more raid wings than strikes, but meh. 

Edited March 5, 2022 by Einsof.1457

[Hoover.6394]

Queensdale is the most boring map and I was hoping they update that map so new players can see a better map design, the maps in this expansion are amazing, I think some people just don’t like the oriental aesthetics. 

[Djimi.5167]

I've been thinking similarly about this.

It doesn't feel much like an expansion, but more like 4 living world episodes bundled together along with elite specs and 'quality of life' features (which felt unnecessary).

There's a lot of content (in the sense of "what's been made/added", rather than "engaging things to do") in the EoD, yet once I'd finished the main story, I couldn't help but think "was that it...?"

I was quite excited at the start of the story, with the potential directions it could've taken... but what we got was a bit lacklustre for me (albeit along the lines of what I initially expected). The latter half of the story felt a bit too predictable, to the point where it felt like everything dragged until finally reaching the end. The dialogue wasn't the 'worst' (and it's definitely been worse in the past...), but wasn't exactly 'riveting' either - it had a few good moments though.

I bring up the story, partly because you chose to avoid it, and partly because it would've been the main redeeming factor for me. The other stuff's cool n' all, but they don't seem to have much substance to them... Having new elite specs is great, and probably the most notable addition... but what do I use the elite specs on? Old content? The new maps don't feel very engaging (apart from the last one which feels like a raid-version of 'Dragon's Stand' - and not in a good way). 

I can't say I've tried the EoD ranger elite spec yet, but I've played the elementalist's one. There's one skill that pains me every time with it's animation, and that's hammer '2' in water attunement... It's basically the classic warrior greatsword skill 'Hundred Blades', but the animation cuts off (a little bit too late too, so the character does a weird twitch at the end of it). It looks so strange with a hammer too; it looks as if it's lost all of it's weight. I'd rather they just recycled hammer '2' from earth attunement.

All that said, I don't feel like I'd been cheated in any way, as they delivered a lot of stuff which further-enhances playing plain ol' GW2. It's just that the previous expansions set such a high bar for me, and I naively thought this would be on par with them. I can't shake the feeling that the story ending was jumbled together at the last minute, despite having: the core storyline, multiple living world seasons and 2 expansions to build up to it. The 'grand finale' for this storyline didn't feel very grand... and the rest of the EoD content doesn't feel very captivating either. Idk about you, but I give it 6.5/10.

Edited March 5, 2022 by Djimi.5167

[Madeline.9504]

Disappointed With EOD Expansion. Need to Fix Multiple Features

 

I played gw1. I loved it. Factions was so exciting with maps that players could change (borders) based on actions of large groups of people in pve , kurzicks and luxons sand an amazing atmosphere. I love gw2 I thought POF was really great , well done and reminded me of the Nightfall.  I was so excited that EOD  would take some inspiration from the GW1 cantha mechanics. Unfortunately EOD is disappointing  in number of sectors

 

 

Map Design

 The EOD maps are poorly designed. Where am I going? What is the purpose of this area?   Big and more vertical is not always better. Shing Jea is nice but why make doors. I wandered around for hours and could not figure out how to get to some waypoints. It was a doorway that only opens if you are close by. Even when I know its there it still takes me a bit to recognize which one opens. Not helpful!

 

Players where are they? 

Where are all the players? I have seen maybe just 5 or 6 consistently on a map....at launch no less? Yet I see players in non EOD Maps.  I kept thinking, next corner, next event, next point of interest, skill point or map....  everybody would certainly  be there.  Nope, there are events everywhere yet no players.   LFG  in EOD should be a supplement, not mandatory to play with others. Most LFG are all full so I can not join even when I want to. The maps become painful  and lonely feeling it is  just a shame. Please fix map population.

 

Kaineng City

I am especially  surprised how repetitive Kaineng  environment is it does not feel like a live city capital  unlike so many maps in GW2 such as Divinity Reach. Why are there so many large empty plazas with nothing there and very few landmarks that visually tell me where I am? (I will say I do like the flying holo fish) . In  Kaineng I don't hear sounds of a city just wind and battery power turning off and on. The concept art on the loading screen is great. I at least expect the sound of a bustling city or more npcs and convo.  Maybe Anet will make improvements.

 

Fishing and Skiff

Fishing hurts my hands. I tried it 3 times and thought if I do this again I will not be able to enjoy the rest of the game as my hands hurt so bad. It is cumbersome and not fun. Maybe there is a way to make it less painful. The skiff is hard to use. There is a miniscule button barely visible. Why hide this?  At least make a shortcut to assign a key to so I can switch quickly. Not just for the fishing menu.

 

 

Guild Wars?

Moreover, like original post said where is the gameplay that the game is named after...Guld Wars. I thought maybe this time with Canthan expansion  it would be added for sure. Can we at least add canthan theme in  WVW?  Am I missing something? I have not that  seen either. Will it be added in the future?

 

 Anet Please 

This expansion should be on par with POF. Currently it is not. It had a model in Cantha, I get it is supposed to be years later and tech develops, and It seems like effort was put in by designers.

 

  Maybe there were too many new ideas that took up development and design  and then they were poorly executed?  With the lonely maps alone I will be waiting to have that fixed first before I head to the EOD maps again. Please fix some of these issues where you can. I enjoy guild wars 2 please make improvements.

 

Edited March 8, 2022 by Madeline.9504
Clarity

[Knighthonor.4061]

53 minutes ago, Hoover.6394 said:

Queensdale is the most boring map and I was hoping they update that map so new players can see a better map design, the maps in this expansion are amazing, I think some people just don’t like the oriental aesthetics. 

Queendale is my favorite city in the game. New Kaineng is nice looking.  Just not very functional or interesting due to the lack of function

[Krexen.9057]

Is this just the first phase of the expansion? Genuinely curious.

[LucianDK.8615]

The only good part of kaineng is the initial front districts.  Then it becomes gloomy and oppressive with endless rows of high rises with little life that is pushed together in a rage inducing maze, blind roads and paths everywhere. Arghh! 

 

A skyscale is a great help in navigating the city. And I genuinely feel sorry for those whom doesnt have it.

 

Kaineng also suffers from a lack of workshops beside jadebot tables. Ive had to go back to tyria to get stuff crafted, then back to Kaineng for the jadebot table again.

 

And Arborstone....

An overhyped gargantuan place in multiple levels.  Why the fascination with spreading out everything so far on multiple floors that you all too easilly get lost? I thought Eye of the North was bad in that regard, but Arborstone beats it by miles.

Queen's pavilion remains the supreme place for me. Condensed with no wasted space. You know exactly where everything is, and can reach it in seconds unlike Arborstone.

Edit:

Shing jea on the other hand feels like a labor of love. Everything is bright and clean.  I can well understand that the Empress chose to live there, and not the monstrous city of Kaineng.

Echoweald is impressive and have much more life unlike Kaineng. Though it could have benefited from more visual variety. Aka sameyness problem.

But the final zone is a joy to look at and explore. Extremely high visual variety and recognizable landmarks. You never get lost there.

It feels like that map 1 and 4 was created first and had the most attention.

Edited March 5, 2022 by LucianDK.8615

[Doctor Hide.6345]

9 hours ago, Jaunty.6018 said:

I know this post will be absolutely crapped on by most everyone in this forum, and that's fine.  Many of you are happy that we're even getting new content at all.  I get that, and I'm not here to ruin your fun.  I'm not going to try to tell you that the fun you are having right now is not, in fact, fun.  I want you to have fun.  In this covid-infested war-ridden world, we all need a little escapism.  In the grand scheme of things, it's pretty silly to complain so much about a video game. 

 

I am just going to highlight this and say at least you acknowledge that their are other views out there beside your own on this. I personally am enjoying New Kaineng and all the stuff they added with this expansion. Could some things be improved? Sure. But the basic core is there for them to work on it to start improving it. I also like the fishing. I know some wanted something else for this expansion, but the world doesn't work that way. So, some are going to have to accept the expansion as is or move on.  Not directing this at you OP directly. Just more in general to people who think the whole thing should change just to fit their whims while ignoring those who like the expansion like me and others.

[LucianDK.8615]

I still give EoD thumbs up, much more stylish than PoF, which was different varieties on deserts.

[Jaunty.6018]

7 minutes ago, LucianDK.8615 said:

I still give EoD thumbs up, much more stylish than PoF, which was different varieties on deserts.

I could not disagree more.

 

 

[Jaunty.6018]

23 minutes ago, Doctor Hide.6345 said:

 

I am just going to highlight this and say at least you acknowledge that their are other views out there beside your own on this. I personally am enjoying New Kaineng and all the stuff they added with this expansion. Could some things be improved? Sure. But the basic core is there for them to work on it to start improving it. I also like the fishing. I know some wanted something else for this expansion, but the world doesn't work that way. So, some are going to have to accept the expansion as is or move on.  Not directing this at you OP directly. Just more in general to people who think the whole thing should change just to fit their whims while ignoring those who like the expansion like me and others.

Oh I fully expect most people to dislike what I say.  As I said, that's fine.  I'm just voicing my honest thoughts as a longtime player, and people can do what they want with them.  And as long as they're respectful in their replies I will be the same.  Thanks for being civil despite enjoying the expansion.

[SweetPotato.7456]

Replying to author of the thread.

IMHO when this  area  is being developed -  New Kaineng must have been designed base on how it will evolve into what it looks like right now from how it was before with the addition of  jade technology/dragon magic.  So I think Anet has put more thoughts into it than what you describe it to be.

Copy paste texture / windows is inevitable unless you want to crashed every ones' game. Sure you can use different texture for every one of the buildings and make different face for every citizen in New Kaineng, but that was not because they were lazy,  I think they want everyone to be able to load the game first. 

 

If you look close enough, did you know there are at least 4 different kind of trades at the Kaineng dock,  we have the noodle kiosk with menu on the side and 2 different type of steaming bowls of noodles being serve on top of the counter, there's kiosk selling books (I can see some of the books are using the perfect hand sewn and bound technique)  there are peddlers making fabric with cones of threads in baskets, there are turkeys in cages, there are fruits/vegetables seller, there's a wine/alcohol seller, there are fishmongers, there's a there are kiosk that sells Lanterns. There is a painter making painting at the dock. All these are people putting love and care into their job to bring us this wonderful expansion. Calling them lazy is uncalled for.

Edited March 5, 2022 by SweetPotato.7456

[Jaunty.6018]

52 minutes ago, SweetPotato.7456 said:

All these are people putting love and care into their job to bring us this wonderful expansion. Calling them lazy is uncalled for.

No, it's not.  Repeated textures side-by-side is one thing; I can ignore those, even though the base content shows very little of that.  But you have assets overlapping and clipping through each other in the most careless way.  You can't go a few feet in Kaineng without seeing a roof overlapping another roof and the top is sticking out of it, or a stone arch with wooden planks from above poking right through.  This IS lazy design.  There is absolutely no way you can look at all these flaws and tell me that they put a lot of care into their work.  I have tried my hand at game design and I know how they did it: they simply cloned an asset on top of another asset and called it a day.  It took them mere seconds to do.  It also takes mere seconds to correct a clipping problem, but they chose not to.  It's such a game design sin to do this that you won't even find it in retro 3D games like Mario 64.  This is not prevalent in the 9-year-old base content and it's honestly sad that so many people are perfectly fine with it, and willing to fight to defend it.  In-game I have been repeatedly bullied for expressing my thoughts on this, which really sends the message that if you have any kind of eye for art and game design, stay far far away from current Guild Wars.

[Exxcalibur.6203]

15 hours ago, Jaunty.6018 said:

I could not disagree more.

 

 

Lets just all agree that ICEBROOD SAGE was the best new content 🙂

[Gorem.8104]

If anything the general consensus I have seen for this expac so far on all places, is that most are disappointed. Masteries are not as impactful as HoT or PoF, Jade bot is not account based? The mount is wanted by people but locked behind a raid boss that you can only access every 2 hours? green on green on green? Empty cities? Clipping, a story that seems to only capture 50% of people as most are split seriously Anet just give us Epic stuff, in PoF we killed Balthazar.  Not to mention the E-specs need like another year of work to be in a usable state. 

Good to have new music at least. 

[AoAkinari.9248]

i agree, feel like this dlc was really rushed. 

 

arborstone mastery is really pointless, it adds absolutely nothing. Take something that exist everywhere else, merchants, reapiring, trading post etc. etc. and tie this to masteries for you to unlock. It feels like some director said "we need one more mastery" but they run out of ideas and used this just to fill void.

 

Grothmar valley, drizzlewood ,there are many "newer" maps that looks waay more better. I just remembered - Dragonfall, so much stuff is there, burning forest, other side, rich beatifull forest and wasteland for balance and dragon itself !! . EoD maps are really soulless, empty, low quality, no details. Agree with OP that kaineng looks just funny, such big place, yet nothing is there. Ghost town literally. Rest maps aren't that better, we just got bigger paying with better.

 

Story was sooo short. I remember this feeling, i was just waming up and end of story... i was like, wut? its over already? Something even happened? Under in spoiler about cutscenes.

Spoiler

I really liked cut scenes, some of them were really funny (not in a good way) for example when we and taimi were talking to joon in her lab and that moment with her letting of a wrench, what? she wanted beat us with that? and we were in threat? She was like "ugh fine" and taimi *heave breath*, weird.

 

Cutscene with ankha and mai trin was really nice, they could at least do some wound after shot i guess its too much for some snowflakes :/, feels artificial.

 

Skiff i guess is for people without PoF and fishing is not for me anyway, just a gimmick to use once per year.

Jade bot . . . i guess revive, updraft are usefull. But honestly i went throught this expansion without even noticing i have this bot. There is so much potential, new wacky jumping puzzles where updraft can come to play, flying with bot itself could also been utilizied in some puzzles. But again, they should delayed this dlc.

[Jaunty.6018]

55 minutes ago, Exxcalibur.6203 said:

Lets just all agree that ICEBROOD SAGE was the best new content 🙂

It was so much better than this expansion. 

[Laughing Bat.1570]

I take great issue with the term "factions-inspired" when just about everything from factions is gone, explained by a Zahitan wave that washed it all away. Even the Jade Brotherhood is explicitly stated to not be the same gang from factions. 

 

I have mixed feelings for EoD overall. I enjoyed the story for what it was, loved Rama. Already stopped playing for now though 😕

 

[Jaunty.6018]

48 minutes ago, AoAkinari.9248 said:

Grothmar valley, drizzlewood ,there are many "newer" maps that looks waay more better.

 

100% agree.  Loved Grothmar in particular with its pre-searing vibes and the fun metal show.  Most maps in the game are better designed than EoD's.

Edited March 5, 2022 by Jaunty.6018

[Kate.3679]

I agree, the writing is quite bad. For those of you who have played FFXIV's endwalker, end of dragons really feels like a knockoff dollar store version of it.

[Doctor Hide.6345]

2 minutes ago, Ruru.1302 said:

I agree, the writing is quite bad. For those of you who have played FFXIV's endwalker, end of dragons really feels like a knockoff dollar store version of it.

 

Umm. I actually have played it. I have played FF14 since 2.0, but I still enjoyed the story. So, in my opinion it does not feel that way at all. The main characters have been in development since LWS1, so to me, I got emotional with the end because I have grown attached to them like I did with my FF14 counterparts.

[Kate.3679]

4 minutes ago, Doctor Hide.6345 said:

 

Umm. I actually have played it. I have played FF14 since 2.0, but I still enjoyed the story. So, in my opinion it does not feel that way at all. The main characters have been in development since LWS1, so to me, I got emotional with the end because I have grown attached to them like I did with my FF14 counterparts.

 

My gripe is not about the mainstay characters, it's more about the newly introduced characters. There is little to no development for them so it's really hard to care about them. Also, it's awesome that you enjoyed the story and all, but that still doesn't excuse the fact that EoD is pretty much just Endwalker in the guild wars 2 universe, and also a quarter of the length of it's FFXIV counterpart. I know I'm not the only one with this sentiment.

Edited March 5, 2022 by Ruru.1302

[Doctor Hide.6345]

10 minutes ago, Ruru.1302 said:

 

My gripe is not about the mainstay characters, it's more about the newly introduced characters. There is little to no development for them so it's really hard to care about them. Also, it's awesome that you enjoyed the story and all, but that still doesn't excuse the fact that EoD is pretty much just Endwalker in the guild wars 2 universe, and also a quarter of the length of it's FFXIV counterpart. I know I'm not the only one with this sentiment.

 

I am not saying you are wrong for feeling that way along with some others. I guess my problem mainly and not with you. Is how some bring up their complaints like only theirs matters, and it is objective fact that all must abide by this view. When as you know, there are people like me who enjoy the story, enjoy the maps, enjoy the metas etc... That is my main problem with people complaining. Not recognizing the other side.