End of Dragons is a disappointing mess

[yoni.7015]

Just now, Jaunty.6018 said:

Civil and mature ways, like calling people toxic for having a different opinion?  Yes...you're clearly a master of diplomacy.

I didn’t call you toxic because you have a different opinion. I called you toxic because of the way you expressed your opinion. I mean now you are just trying to insult me, is this how you interact with other human beings? 

[Jukhy.2431]

I've been loving the new content so am not disappointed, very much worth the money paid for it.

Still haven't completed Echovald (work taking my time) but the area design reminds me of Verdant Brink and perhaps Tangled Depths too. Seitung is another map I also really love the feel of.

However I will agree that New Kaineng could have used more work since currently feels somewhat inactive. Hopefully they'll keep adding things, as in developing the city when it "opens up" to rest of Tyria. It also feels too large as does Arborstone. Could have made both just a little smaller places tbh, but nothing's perfect and opinions differ.

The story is.. well, it's a story. Bit passive on making desicions, feels more like the great hero of Tyria is just along to see the sights. "Get yer Cantha tour with the great Commander!" So far there's been few cringe moments but I'll live.

Overall I have positive vibe with EoD and can't wait to complete it and to see what next LW season brings.

[Rendalmj.3152]

I think some of you guys here are just burned out and need some time off the game. Calling the devs LAZY is so uncalled for since they been working tirelessly for the past 3 years for the expansion. Just go and relax maybr play other games and comeback and stay positives vibes the game will be great. I promise you the devs will make the game better just give them time. 

Edit : I also want to say one of the reason why you dont see alot people in Expansion maps is because people are doing story at the moment thats why you dont see alot people in map. And secondly you will see more people on the weekends on free time rather on weekdays people are busy with work. And please just look at Lfg if you want to join groups and do meta its simple as that

Edited March 7, 2022 by Rendalmj.3152
forget my second point

[choon.6308]

  

1 hour ago, Rendalmj.3152 said:

I think some of you guys here are just burned out and need some time off the game. Calling the devs LAZY is so uncalled for since they been working tirelessly for the past 3 years for the expansion. Just go and relax maybr play other games and comeback and stay positives vibes the game will be great. I promise you the devs will make the game better just give them time. 

Edit : I also want to say one of the reason why you dont see alot people in Expansion maps is because people are doing story at the moment thats why you dont see alot people in map. And secondly you will see more people on the weekends on free time rather on weekdays people are busy with work. And please just look at Lfg if you want to join groups and do meta its simple as that

 

Not true, not really relevant either. Came back to check out the game after 3 months, no chance of burning out. EoD is very low effort in every way and it shows. Hardly anybody bought it after the disappointing beta tests and livestreams. Game just had its first weekend as well, where are you going with that "you will see more people in weekends" argument? Maps are emptier than an abandoned mmo from 1997. It's not bugged either, it's intentionally designed to be empty. I can't imagine how players like you are enjoying empty maps and inferior mechanics that much that you have to cover up and defend it in every which way.

 

Devs haven't been "working tirelessly for 3 years" either. GW2 got ruined in mid 2019 and never was able to recover, every new thing added was rushed and inferior in quality. Of course you sound like you've started playing the game way after that based on your unrealistic viewpoints on how "great" the game is. I'm genuinely interested in what new excuses will arrive next, people are doing stories and that's why maps are empty? Like people weren't doing stories in HoT and PoF when you couldn't even see the npcs from all the players? I hope you got your turtle at least, otherwise it makes zero sense why you are this hyped about this dlc pack.

 

Edited March 7, 2022 by choon.6308

[Burial.1958]

On 3/5/2022 at 11:46 PM, DragonMoon.6098 said:

My biggest beef so far is the desolate maps. I just tried to do an event in Echovald where you have to find invisible ritualist baddies while avoiding ghosts running around and you can't possibly do the event fast enough for the timer...when you're pretty much always by yourself on an empty flipping map....

These overland events are of a difficulty level above old maps...and you need actual population in them to get a good number of them done (some can be done alone, but not all). 

That being said, I do find the new maps to be very pretty, especially Echovald...BUT THERE IS NOBODY IN THEM. 

The scaling in EoD is pretty bad overall.

[yoni.7015]

3 minutes ago, choon.6308 said:

  

 

Not true, not really relevant either. Came back to check out the game after 3 months, no chance of burning out. EoD is very low effort in every way and it shows. Hardly anybody bought it after the disappointing beta tests and livestreams. Game just had its first weekend as well, where are you going with that "you will see more people in weekends" argument? Maps are emptier than an abandoned mmo from 1997. It's not bugged either, it's intentionally designed to be empty. I can't imagine how players like you are enjoying empty maps and inferior mechanics that much that you have to cover up and defend it in every which way.

 

Devs haven't been "working tirelessly for 3 years" either. GW2 got ruined in mid 2019 and never was able to recover, every new thing added was rushed and inferior in quality. Of course you sound like you've started playing the game way after that based on your unrealistic viewpoints on how "great" the game is. I'm genuinely interested in what new excuses will arrive next, people are doing stories and that's why maps are empty? Like people weren't doing stories in HoT and PoF when you couldn't even see the npcs from all the players?

 

I actually see a lot of players in the new maps. There are always several full meta maps. 

Edited March 7, 2022 by yoni.7015

[Aedelric.1287]

I entirely agree with the original post, some of these maps are so poorly designed and executed its just heart-wrenching to see. I adored the old maps from Guild Wars one and spent countless hours exploring, yet these are all just a noisy mess in comparison. the story is equally as bad, it dose not seem to have the love and attention to detail previous entries have.

 

Hands down the worst expansion GW2 has had to date for all the reasons mentioned on the original post, perhaps covid and working from was to blame. I am still a fan and love the franchise, I just hope future  projects are substantially better than this, it really is a shame as POF was an an amazing expansion.

[ctorrezan.3498]

We just need more time to do it, 3 or more minutes will be fine.

[Rendalmj.3152]

1 hour ago, choon.6308 said:

  

 

Not true, not really relevant either. Came back to check out the game after 3 months, no chance of burning out. EoD is very low effort in every way and it shows. Hardly anybody bought it after the disappointing beta tests and livestreams. Game just had its first weekend as well, where are you going with that "you will see more people in weekends" argument? Maps are emptier than an abandoned mmo from 1997. It's not bugged either, it's intentionally designed to be empty. I can't imagine how players like you are enjoying empty maps and inferior mechanics that much that you have to cover up and defend it in every which way.

 

Devs haven't been "working tirelessly for 3 years" either. GW2 got ruined in mid 2019 and never was able to recover, every new thing added was rushed and inferior in quality. Of course you sound like you've started playing the game way after that based on your unrealistic viewpoints on how "great" the game is. I'm genuinely interested in what new excuses will arrive next, people are doing stories and that's why maps are empty? Like people weren't doing stories in HoT and PoF when you couldn't even see the npcs from all the players? I hope you got your turtle at least, otherwise it makes zero sense why you are this hyped about this dlc pack.

 

1.I disagree the devs put alot effort in the expansion, the story is amazing, fishing , skiff, new mount, new maps new metas which is more challenging than previous expansions.

 

2. Hardly anybody bought expansion? Please stop making false statements without any proof which will lid to misinformation and negativity to the game. 

 

3. On the weekends i did see alot of people. That time they already increase map capacity which is great.

 

4. If you dont like the expansion its okay, other people enjoying it right now. For me i am enjoying the game, now i am fishing trying to get all titles and be best fish person in tyria

[choon.6308]

  

1 hour ago, Rendalmj.3152 said:

1.I disagree the devs put alot effort in the expansion, the story is amazing, fishing , skiff, new mount, new maps new metas which is more challenging than previous expansions.

 

2. Hardly anybody bought expansion? Please stop making false statements without any proof which will lid to misinformation and negativity to the game. 

 

3. On the weekends i did see alot of people. That time they already increase map capacity which is great.

 

4. If you dont like the expansion its okay, other people enjoying it right now. For me i am enjoying the game, now i am fishing trying to get all titles and be best fish person in tyria

 

1. They put a lot of effort into the single player version of the game such as map design, story, voice acting, music but still fell short in that regard. Maps are empty not only from players but there are not enough events, npcs or overall alive feeling in the maps. Other posters have already mentioned the low effort graphical designs of the cities such as copy pasting the same assets on top of each other, not fixing clipping issues etc. A lot of the monster types and environmental designs are copy pasted from HoT.

Skiffs are just a gimmick, still can't believe fishing and skiffs were the first revealed "selling points" during the EoD reveal. Skimmer is much better than skiff. Turtle mount is very disappointing as well, people only want to get it because it's new and hard to get because of the collection. They will go back to Skyscale 10 minutes after playing with the turtle.

 

2. Yep, hardly anybody bought the expansion. This has been the least hyped expansion yet and still managed to disappoint. Never seen an mmo with "no players around" just days after release. Trying to cover up low population with excuses doesn't really help your case. Not to mention the lack of regional pricing has prevented a good chunk of dedicated GW2 players from buying EoD. Doesn't affect me but those people who were able to buy HoT and PoF simply cannot buy because it's way more expensive compared to 5 years ago. Many have immigrated to another mmo on Steam with regional pricing and they seem very happy.

 

3. Then why are there still "maps are empty" threads popping out everyday? Almost all the excuses so far have been used up, need new ones other than "people are doing story" or "people are working weekdays" which have been exposed to be false already. When people are done with their turtle collections, metas will be completely unachievable for most until the boss is nerfed so much that it can be done with 10 people.

Day 1 nerf of boons and survivability of classes also played a big role in players' decision to just step out of the game entirely. Some even feel cheated for buying the new expansion because this nerf was kept hidden until launch, knowing many would have cancelled their preorders.

 

4. That's good, I'm glad you're having fun. Though fishing has existed for more than a decade in other mmos and done in a much better way than EoD. It's not about the expansion, it's the sad trajectory this game has been put into since 2019. I guess for people who've never seen how amazing GW2 was in its golden days, it's not an issue.

Edited March 7, 2022 by choon.6308

[Bazs.1470]

I sadly need to agree with this. I already went through the 5 phases of grief with this expansion. As of yesterday, I witnessed how poorly the endgame content is done, I can say with 100% certainty that Arenanet literally forgot everything they learned in the past 9 years.

 

This is totally down to personal taste, but the maps are a visual mess. Some less, like Echovald, but the worse offender of this is indeed New Kaening. This green srceen colored jadetech is probably the biggest artistic mistake that I saw from a studio like Arenanet, where top grade artists work. They forced this hars neon-green color into everything and it do not works. Also this is the first time where I decided to turn off post-processing, so the colors are not all burned out.

My other big gripe lies with the metas and strike missions. The metas are hard and unrewarding, they will be all dead content in a few months, like Serpent's Ire. The fact that MightyTeapot needed to make a guide video for Dragon's End meta speaks the level of misguided intention what the devs had for that map. The level of organization that is required there is only acceptable in a raid, strike or fractal, but not in an open world map where you get two blues and a green as a reward. After the amazing metas that we got in Drizzlewood and Bjora Marches, this is truly pathethic, like two totally different dev teams worked on these who had 0 communication with each other.

The Aetherblade strike mission have one-mistake and you are dead (not downed) mechanics, which I think is unaccapatable on normal mode. Even the hardest strike mission in the IBS only downed you when you made a mistake, but not outright removed you from the game. After that, I had no desire to try any other strike missions and it will remain like that.

 

The only thing I'm happy with is how they closed the story. There were missteps on the way, but the ending satisfied me. I finished the story and after I get the hammer for my Catalyst and I have no desire to play on the new maps. I'll just go back to Drizzlewood, Bjora Marches and HoT, where my time investment is rewarded.

[particlepinata.9865]

Totally agree. My opinions (after having played the first 3 maps and story, 😞

 

1) The expac maps are almost completely designed with reused assets. Recycling with slighty different skins. Mobs/characters also.

2) The annoying immature American  teen soap attitude language/behaviour in the story for the new characters. Do they think their playerbase is all below mature age? Examples: Yao and The librarian (already forgot her name). The dialoges used to be enjoyable in the past, cannot say that anymore with new characters being introduced. And this is from someone who did like Taimy as a character and even Scarlet.

3) Everything feels immensely timegated, even the story. you are more busy with endlessly repeating the same actions instead of actual gameplay. Especially noticable in the story section taking place in Kaineng City. Used to be quite good in the past, compared to other mmos. I ended with massive strain and headage because of it.

4) The maps feel empty and generic in design, no style or immersion behind it. Chaotic, everything walled  off all the time. I felt like a hamster in a hamster wheel, a feeling of being trapped instead of freedom of movement. Especially in Kaineng City and Echovald Forest (Wilds). Compare that to the stylish, immersive map design of Hot/LS3/POF and LS4. Yes Hot could be somewhat challenging to navigate explore at times, but still a logical design behind it (it being a Jungle evironment) .

5) Even more sickening lighteffects and lightning, especially with postprocessing on. Worst offender is the echovald forest. Like we didnt have already have enough of that in the mount skin/combat effect and armor and weapon skin department.

6) Performance is much worse compared to any earlier content. Such big maps with the limits of the engine comes with negative consequenses.

7) I like both the genres of classic historic style fantasy and science fiction. This hybrid does not do it for me personally. I play(ed) guildwars 1 and 2 for my classic fantasy genre fix.

 

I used to love guildwars (1 and 2) because it actually felt like playing a normal game. Now it feels like another generic timegated/massive repetitiveness mmo, endlessly stretching the same. the opposite of what i like to be honost. I ended up uninstalling the game. You can say this is my guildwars retirement. It has been a good 16 years, time to move on.

Edited March 7, 2022 by particlepinata.9865

[Gadzooks.4687]

I feel like they only hand crafted maybe half of the world/environment assets, and then ran out of time and just got some "free" ones for generic things like concrete slabs, pillars, walls, etc. When mixed together, it just seems so out of place. Like if you were to build something with those old child wooden blocks and legos at the same time. It just doesnt match up.

Oh, and making a city deliberately designed to be a maze/puzzle just ruins immersion, because no one in their right mind would build things this way. No one would ever want to walk around town. Hard to believe they are this advanced society with the city design the way it is.

Edited March 7, 2022 by Gadzooks.4687

[Kikokuma.9405]

13 minutes ago, Gadzooks.4687 said:

I feel like they only hand crafted maybe half of the world/environment assets, and then ran out of time and just got some "free" ones for generic things like concrete slabs, pillars, walls, etc. When mixed together, it just seems so out of place. Like if you were to build something with those old child wooden blocks and legos at the same time. It just doesnt match up.

Oh, and making a city deliberately designed to be a maze/puzzle just ruins immersion, because no one in their right mind would build things this way. No one would ever want to walk around town. Hard to believe they are this advanced society with the city design the way it is.

I think they did this to try and go back to the feeling Cantha gave you in GW1. The issue with that though is that like half of the entire continent of Cantha was like this because everyone was poor, destitute, and there was a plague killing everyone. People where just putting up temporary housing just where ever with no thought cuz it didn't matter. (they would most likely be dead in a few weeks) They tried to put all of that feeling into like 1 large city... except it's no longer poor, destitute, or plague ridden.... sooooo why are they building everything like idiots? Makes no sense. If you want to change the world from how it was from GW1 then do that... if you want to recall back to GW1 to get that same kind of feeling then do that. You can't have both. There is no clear sense of direction. 

[Jaunty.6018]

9 hours ago, Rendalmj.3152 said:

I think some of you guys here are just burned out and need some time off the game. Calling the devs LAZY is so uncalled for since they been working tirelessly for the past 3 years for the expansion. Just go and relax maybr play other games and comeback and stay positives vibes the game will be great. I promise you the devs will make the game better just give them time. 

Edit : I also want to say one of the reason why you dont see alot people in Expansion maps is because people are doing story at the moment thats why you dont see alot people in map. And secondly you will see more people on the weekends on free time rather on weekdays people are busy with work. And please just look at Lfg if you want to join groups and do meta its simple as that

Uh, no.  I've barely been playing it, for all the reasons I mentioned.  It's not uncalled for to point out blatantly careless and amateurish design from a team that has always created quality content.  You're acting like this company made this expansion out of the kindness of their hearts or something.  I seem to remember paying $30 for it.  Others paid way more, for very little.  A couple skins and some gems.  If their work was compromised because of covid, they should have told us that and delayed the game further.  Instead they went the Cyberpunk 2077 route and marketed the hell out of an unfinished product.  There's no way they didn't expect critical threads like this, and I'm baffled by those who are complacent and apologetic.  You're just hurting the game.  I (and many others who have spoken up) want it to be better.  We all love Guild Wars.  That's why we're here.

[Zenith.7301]

On 3/5/2022 at 12:03 AM, Jaunty.6018 said:

I could not disagree more.

 

 

 

 

PoF is leap and bound above in visual design. People diluting it into "different deserts" are dimwits talking out of their kitten. Elonian architecture was the best architecture the game ever brought in.

 

PoF is just what EoD's future looks like because Anet refused to make the core PoF maps and metas rewarding or engaging, and made a bunch of poorly rewarded spread out events that don't properly tunnel player density like HoT did.

[yoni.7015]

20 minutes ago, Jaunty.6018 said:

Instead they went the Cyberpunk 2077 route and marketed the hell out of an unfinished product.  

What exactly is not finished yet? Is there more to come with this expansion? What features are missing?

[Cuks.8241]

I quite like the maps. Kaineng is great imo. I like that its full of streets and different levels and complicated layout. I was hoping they will go this direction even after all the complaints they get for some Hot maps. There are plenty of shortcuts to get around via teleporters and zip line and just alleys and passages. I've found quite a few puzzles and hidden secrets, I hope there is more to discover.

The only complaint about Keineng I agree is the feeling of emptyness. They could easily add another meta event or 2 in there. And maybe a player hub or three with everything that we need. It's a city after all, where are the banks, TP and crafting stations. And a portal or a boat ride to Lion's arch.

[yoni.7015]

6 minutes ago, Cuks.8241 said:

I quite like the maps. Kaineng is great imo. I like that its full of streets and different levels and complicated layout. I was hoping they will go this direction even after all the complaints they get for some Hot maps. There are plenty of shortcuts to get around via teleporters and zip line and just alleys and passages. I've found quite a few puzzles and hidden secrets, I hope there is more to discover.

The only complaint about Keineng I agree is the feeling of emptyness. They could easily add another meta event or 2 in there. And maybe a player hub or three with everything that we need. It's a city after all, where are the banks, TP and crafting stations. And a portal or a boat ride to Lion's arch.

I agree, I think the maps are  great and really beautiful. I guess they wanted to have Arborstone to be the player hub, which it is. 

Edited March 7, 2022 by yoni.7015

[LucianDK.8615]

I see tons of people in seitung, echovald and arborstone. And course always filling up dragon's end.  Its kaineng city that appears to have the least player presence. 

 

I find Kaineng to be an awful zone, but it gets better again.

[Lucy.9743]

Agreed.  This expansion feels like what it is--a cash grab.  It's grasping at straws when it comes to elite specs.  It's recycled characters and other npc's, rehashed boring story content and wow. . .fishing.  Zzzzz.  I could not be disappointed more and for the first time in over nine years I'm considering quitting.  Still no WvW or PvP content.  Ridiculously unbalanced new elites yet they tweak necro minions like that's a huge problem.  Don't get me wrong, I'm very happy for people that are enjoying it and I understand why they are, I just wish I was one of them.  One example is when I had to go "stealth" for a heart quest.  I mean, come on.  Are you really that hard pressed for new ideas when it comes to simple quests ANET?  Sheesh. 

[Lucy.9743]

On 3/4/2022 at 8:46 PM, Hoover.6394 said:

Queensdale is the most boring map and I was hoping they update that map so new players can see a better map design, the maps in this expansion are amazing, I think some people just don’t like the oriental aesthetics. 

Who says "oriental" in 2022?  Anyway, Central Tyria was made with tender, loving care when ANET had more employees and it shows everywhere you go including the cities. 

[Ruisen.9471]

On 3/4/2022 at 9:03 PM, Jaunty.6018 said:

I could not disagree more.

 

 

Post Processing worked REALLY well in Path of Fire, but its a blinding mess EoD.   I dont think the textures are lower res in EoD, but not having decent post processing anymore really hurts EoD graphics imo.

Edited March 8, 2022 by Ruisen.9471

[Jaunty.6018]

2 hours ago, Lucy.9743 said:

Agreed.  This expansion feels like what it is--a cash grab.  It's grasping at straws when it comes to elite specs.  It's recycled characters and other npc's, rehashed boring story content and wow. . .fishing.  Zzzzz.  I could not be disappointed more and for the first time in over nine years I'm considering quitting.  Still no WvW or PvP content.  Ridiculously unbalanced new elites yet they tweak necro minions like that's a huge problem.  Don't get me wrong, I'm very happy for people that are enjoying it and I understand why they are, I just wish I was one of them.  One example is when I had to go "stealth" for a heart quest.  I mean, come on.  Are you really that hard pressed for new ideas when it comes to simple quests ANET?  Sheesh. 

Yeah, if this is the new standard that Anet wants to set then I'm not interested.  It really does seem like a different studio, and unfortunately they don't know how to, or don't care to make a quality product.  And all the apologists are wearing me out.  Like...is this really what they want the game to be?  This is acceptable?  Because when they shoot down all the wealth of constructive criticism that keeps popping up, that's exactly what they're saying.

[Aleksander Suburb.4287]

About end of dragons:

--: Cyberpunk setting and jade technology everywhere
---: No Kurzick, No Luxon
+: Shing Jea was a nice start, but the ugly green tones are everywhere. And then in the middle of the map, something like a city with a 10 metres high jade-tech fence like a jade-tech jurassic park. 🙄
+: Kaineng was not so overloaded with jade technology as I thought by the trailer. Still find one/two nice areas.
--: arborstone has a very nice cathedral ... and ... it is empty without the void 🤯. Was there something other nice? Right a wonderful junkyard 🤢
-: Jade Sea: My last hope and a place I was looking forwar to seeing it. Overall a nice, wonderful landscape ... but ... omg a giant earth auger 😕. Then finally a bit of the "jade sea" but fights everywhere. Everywhere is the void. Can't really enjoy my trip here. And the flying laser ufo turtles are just crap.
---: Everybody of the (brotherhood) is wearing a laser gun. No problem for my prehistoric bow!!! 😓
++: Fishing is surprising nice designed. And I use it often when taimi and co are in there endless monologues. Maybe that is my fault, why I couldn't understand some parts of the story. For example I never noticed, when the speaker and the (brotherhood) joined our fight against the void... 😩
-: The story is not my favorite (you know jade-tech and the stuff). You've have to use the kitten ugly jade bot so many times. I would throw it in the beautiful arborstone junkyard. The villa of joon was just annoying. I could stop to puke all over my unleashed pet 🤮. Then I have to restart this mission 4 times beacuse of bugs. It was one of the better stories of guild wars 2, but in the maps there was often the feeling of "why does people invest so much to work into ruining a map" 😵
---: jade-bot: Just a great a idea for a cyberpunk game.
--: Elite specializations: I played ranger. Half the story I played soul beast. Other hald I played untamed with just a hammer (unleashed pet) and fervent force. It was great, but I know that fervent force is just too unbalanced and it will be nerfed into the ground. Unfortunately it is the only good thing about this class. 🤬

Nice ideas for the wrong game and setting. High graded art style with mistakes that destroys the whole atmosphere.

So I decided to leave gw2. Maybe I will reinstall good, old guild wars. The graphic is twenty years old, but the design is consistent and don't need 200 half-baked ideas to be interesting. 🥺