Upcoming Changes to "The Battle For The Jade Sea"

[Zabi Zabi.3561]

Here is a little suggestion... Make the Jade Maw a Strike Mission, if you not going to fix the scaling

EDIT! THERE IS A BUG WHERE PEOPLE WHO DID THE MAW GOT NO CHEST! YOU OWE US ANET! YOU kittenING OWE US! >=( 

FOR 3 DAYS YOU OWE EVERYONE WHO EVEN LOGS IN! LUXON TOOLS!

Edited March 17, 2022 by Zabi Zabi.3561

[cherrie.8907]

TL;DR: The boss fight is mostly fine, especially after the tweaks, it's the time required that's the big issue. Remove the scaling buff from events (and adjust overall damage and HP of the boss and the mechanics accordingly) and consider JB buffs to apply for longer.

I get what you tried to do: you tried to make people engage with the map and ensure everyone at the boss fight contributed and didn't just drop in at the last minute.

But we - players - don't care people are dropping in at the last minute. We welcome it, obiously, as its an open world event that needs willing players and people come and go, for various reasons. We WANT people to join at any time, especially if they are experienced and know wtf they are doing.

This time required - which is required by the means of the map buffs - is just too long. When you're deciding what to do in game, will a meta that required 2h be high on your list, "for funsies"? No, it won't. No one will do this meta if it requires this much time and it doesn't matter how fun it is. It's just not worth our time.

If you're not actively aware of it, please think again: 2h is a lot of time in a life of many with full time jobs and families. For many, that's the full amout of free time we get a day. Or an absolute max we can do in one sitting once in a while.

So what's happening now is your players are putting 2h of their lives into an event and continuously failling, feeling like they are wasting time and like you're disrespecting their time. It feels really bitter.

Compare it with release of Tequatl or Triple Trouble: the fails, there were so many fails. But it wasn't 2h wasted. You could ask guildie in at the last minute. 20 mins of a challenging fight that fails feels differen than a mandatory boring, grindy 2h.

While we're at it, the jade bot's buffs are also annoying and part of the problem (you also can't stack up when hot joining). Overall, why are they so spammy? Why do we need to interact with so many items to scale it? 4 batteries and 4 clicks on one item just to get 30 minutes, why?? I ignore them in the rest of the world because they just take me away from enjoying the game, but you have to do it for the meta, otherwise you're crippling yourself and your mates. PLEASE make the buff apply 30 mins per charge! It's same issue: you can't join for the meta or rejoin after disconnecting and fully contribute.

Edited March 17, 2022 by cherrie.8907

[Eaglebach.7593]

I’ve been playing 10+ hours a day since EoD release and have never beaten DE meta. Ironically, the failed attempts contribute a big chunk of XP that allow me to almost maxed out all mastery tracks (still need 2 MP for tier 6 turtle and I’m done). Half the time, map runs out of time. The other half, my PC crashes and D/C and I can’t get back in. It’s super frustrated. My eyes, hands, and back hurt from playing too much, and I think my mind is going insane.

Sadly, I still have to beat the DE meta twice to get the items for virtuoso and vindicator’s weapons. Of course I will keep coming back again and again as GW2 is the only good thing that I have in my pathetic life. However, I sincerely hope that ANet would change the requirements for these weapon collections to some other map’s meta.

[Vlad Morbius.1759]

6 hours ago, Cynder.2509 said:

Bruh, you should have nerfed the event instead of making the mount available through other means. Other MMOs make you grind actual hard content like actual hard raids like in WoW for a cool mount for example. I grinded the mount in the first three days without having proper sleep due to so many maps failing due to all these casuals not knowing what mechanics, quickness, alac, dps and other stuff are (main reason why we should be able to kick people from maps and require LI and proper builds). I love gw2, don't get me wrong but I think gw2 should have prestigious rewards without any other means to get them like other successful MMOs (Even ESO does this better). I play since 2012 but it saddens me how easy and casual the game has become. Veterans literally get little to no reward at all. The turtle is now useless since y'all have a way to get it easily without actually earning it. What a shame. This event actually had potential to properly even give people a slight glimpse of raids and its rewards as fractals failed horribly as a raid introduction. Call me an elitist, but I think this game has been holding everyone's hands for too long. There's nothing to do for long term veterans anymore except weekly raids or waiting for new content sadly. 

I'm sure the majority of veterans feels the same. It kinda feels like a slap in the face to actually dedicated people who got the mount the "hard" way. Why else do you think there's no difficulty setting in soulslike games? That's right! You have to earn your reward. 

 

 

This is the exact elitist kitten we did not want in GW2. If you miss the need to feel like a special snowflake go to those other games. GW2 was never meant to push that kind of behavior and it does nothing but fracture communities, as is plainly evident by what has happened with this stupid meta. What happened you got smacked down so hard on reddit you felt the need to come here and propagate your elitism?

[TrollingDemigod.3041]

6 hours ago, Cynder.2509 said:

Bruh, you should have nerfed the event instead of making the mount available through other means. Other MMOs make you grind actual hard content like actual hard raids like in WoW for a cool mount for example. I grinded the mount in the first three days without having proper sleep due to so many maps failing due to all these casuals not knowing what mechanics, quickness, alac, dps and other stuff are (main reason why we should be able to kick people from maps and require LI and proper builds). I love gw2, don't get me wrong but I think gw2 should have prestigious rewards without any other means to get them like other successful MMOs (Even ESO does this better). I play since 2012 but it saddens me how easy and casual the game has become. Veterans literally get little to no reward at all. The turtle is now useless since y'all have a way to get it easily without actually earning it. What a shame. This event actually had potential to properly even give people a slight glimpse of raids and its rewards as fractals failed horribly as a raid introduction. Call me an elitist, but I think this game has been holding everyone's hands for too long. There's nothing to do for long term veterans anymore except weekly raids or waiting for new content sadly. 

I'm sure the majority of veterans feels the same. It kinda feels like a slap in the face to actually dedicated people who got the mount the "hard" way. Why else do you think there's no difficulty setting in soulslike games? That's right! You have to earn your reward. 

 

Have you ever though that people may not be interested in raids like content in the first place? I'm playing this game since 2012 and I despise this RNG circus in Dragon End meta. It's not difficult, it's plainly unpleasant to play something based on pure luck.
If you want uber grind game then go play BDO.

[garpu.6210]

Not sure if ArenaNet is still reading this thread...

I tried it twice last night, and readiness going into it was low both times. (There's only so much you can do as one player.) Both times failed before Soo-Won was engaged.  I think it's a neat encounter, and was fun while I was doing it, but it needs tuning.  People who work don't have two hours to dedicate to it, and there are many reasons people could be in a zone, from story, gathering, and map completion. But I think things need to be tuned down for a world event. There are so many ways to fail it, and it seems like not many ways to succeed in it.  It feels like it's being run by a GM in a ttrpg who's hell-bent on seeing players die, and we keep rolling natural 1's. 

Edited March 17, 2022 by garpu.6210

[Avenrise.3592]

So after failing 11 times in a row I finally succeeded. That success didn't come with Discord, didn't come with necessarily pro players but did require us to make groups, each with a little Alac and quickness. In the end it was a comfortable success.

I am not saying this to boast but to make a point- the group I was with were Laranity's guild group. Players that have played the game for a while and understand the mechanics that the fight throws at you. With a little in game organisation I still honestly feel that DE isn't a hard fight, it's just tuned very tightly and reducing that tuning isn't a good thing for the game.

Honestly after all those fails and a single win the biggest difference was the amount of players in the fails going down during very clearly choreographed attacks. When you're on the floor you're not doing damage or breaking bars. You're also causing the person res'ing you the same issue. These attacks are not hard to see and are not too hard to avoid either. I'm sorry if this is starting to sound like another 'git good' post but honestly the more people that learn these ideals the more players will feel confident enough to try new encounters. This is coming from a non-raider and someone who hardly plays Strikes and Fractals.

Rewards for failing need looking at sure. The build up could be shorter and tooltips encouraging boon support could be added. But overall I don't think it's healthy for the game for this event to be yet another insta-win meta. 

[Seth Moonshadow.2710]

10 hours ago, Zabi Zabi.3561 said:

Here is a little suggestion... Make the Jade Maw a Strike Mission, if you not going to fix the scaling

EDIT! THERE IS A BUG WHERE PEOPLE WHO DID THE MAW GOT NO CHEST! YOU OWE US ANET! YOU kittenING OWE US! >=( 

FOR 3 DAYS YOU OWE EVERYONE WHO EVEN LOGS IN! LUXON TOOLS!

It's been so long since I feel we've had a release I had almost forgotten about this feature myself. Use the bug reporting tool to report bugs you see happening. Type /bug [enter key] and a window will pop up to report a bug. the more the community reports the more likely it will get fixed. After that report them in the bug forum.

 

Also if you can try a different time of play. I completed the maw last night with a few players and received credit whereas earlier I had not when it completed successfully.

 

Good Luck

[Tails.9372]

11 hours ago, Blood Red Arachnid.2493 said:

Nobody would do the mechanics right during the final fight.  Bubbles were un-popped, geysers were never CC'd, and splitting for the bosses was a pain.  Half the squad died to the first shockwave.

Stuff like this is predictable and should (whether the devs like it or not) always be assumed as the standard when puging OW metas (the last part especially now after the the devs got the glorious idea to nerf self sustain across the board). This isn't going to change either no matter how hard the devs try to make people to "get good".

Also, in regards to the geysers: don't wait for other players to recure you, just try to die as fast as possible and get back into the fight. It's faster that way.

11 hours ago, Seth Moonshadow.2710 said:

Forcing endgame RAID content that they choose to call PvE end game into the open world, clearly that just isn't setting well.

That's not necessarily the case, there is no inherent reason why an expansion where all 4-5 OW maps are essentially 50-100 man hardcore raids couldn't work. The issue here is that this isn't how they sold us the content in EoD, they explicitly stated that SMs are going to be the go-to content for those seeking a challenge so ofc. people expected the rest to be "business as usual".

But if let's say the next expansion is an asura themed venture into the depths of tyria with them being upfront about that OW maps are used for exploration, as a staging ground for the story and for extremely challenging meta events while also providing a virtual reality based fractal esque dungeon system designed purely for the enjoyment of the average casual player without any ulterior motives. If they do that then there wouldn't be any issues as people would know what to expect and the "but what about us?" question would have been answered with a type of content A-Net traditionally (as a repetable endgame activity) hasn't designed for the broader player base to enjoy.

Edited March 17, 2022 by Tails.9372

[Seth Moonshadow.2710]

3 minutes ago, Tails.9372 said:

That's not necessarily the case, there is no inherent reason why an expansion where all 4-5 OW maps are essentially 50-100 man hardcore raids couldn't work. The issue here is that this isn't how they sold us the content in EoD, they explicitly stated that SMs are going to be the go-to content for those seeking a challenge so ofc. people expected the rest to be "business as usual".

But if let's say the next expansion is an asura themed venture into the depths of tyria with them being upfront about that OW maps are used for exploration, as a staging ground for the story and for extremely challenging meta events while also providing a virtual reality based fractal esque dungeon system designed purely for the enjoyment of the average casual player without any ulterior motives. If they do that then there wouldn't be any issues as people would know what to expect and the "but what about us?" question would have been answered with a type of content A-Net traditionally (as a repetable endgame activity) hasn't deigned for the broader player base to enjoy.

I can partial agree with that. You are right about "The issue here is that this isn't how they sold us the content in EoD, they explicitly stated that SMs are going to be the go-to content for those seeking a challenge so ofc. people expected the rest to be "business as usual"."

 

It's very possible your hypothetical scenario could also be true. The problem with that being that for the last what 8 years we have been able to do something and then have it converted (as I previously said also only using the word morphed) in to content we can't play now is part of whats going on now players don't like it. I also would not buy that product knowing that all I would get to do is explore and some fractals. The "meta" system or Dynamic events system is is a majority of the play we do. That's no different than telling us "get good or get gone".

Yes, I partially agree. As I have said before I enjoyed the Soo-Won and its a good battle. But it needs scaling down to something more achievable. 4 times now I've seen it at 3% with minutes left (1-3 minutes) where I was like "YES! We got this!" and suddenly boom it stops, event over, you lose. Here's a new map try again. That's after having added "fixes" /scaling to it. Nope it needs a little more. PUG's need to be ale to play or they wont buy the game to play, or spend money on it.

 

Yes I agree, actually kept to what they stated in  preview videos and kept the "challenging content" to SM's or should they scale down, or even add 5 more minutes, the meta / world boss fights and or should they still actually do that. Yes I agree this would have gone over so much better and should they actually do that in the next release I.E. Keep the "challenging content" to Strike Missions then yes I would buy the next release also.

 

But we are not seeing that as of yet. We have been told changes were made to make it more accessible. and so we reported back on those changes and they are still failing multiple times vs winning.

 

This IS repairable but they need to act and before the masses get burnt out trying. Again this is happening all over the EoD area though. metas are not working  or are all scaled so high you can't solo them and yes you should be able to if no one else is around to help. Remember the "scaling" system is still a system at play and should not be removed. Yes this design also forces more group play but something that is being forgotten here. MMO's became a thing because companies made them, if the game was a boxed game we played locally with out internet and with LAN abilities players would be demanding refunds right now like nobodies business. Solo players are only online because vendors stopped making RPG's for LAN's! Guild Wars 2 can be a solo or LAN game. I'm not saying it should, I'm saying it can. The point being solo, small group and PUGs should not be excluded. This releases just makes it feel like that's what's being done.

[Andy.5981]

Decided to come back to this thread after my earlier post, to say thank you to the Squad that did the DE meta this afternoon (UK time).

The Commander clearly knew their stuff giving instructions in chat and I basically stayed at their side.

I'd adapted my Mesmer build to a raid build with lots of boons, made sure I had done 10 events in the zone and gone round repeatedly syphoning all the Jade batteries to enable me to take the buffs from the Offensive and Defensive turrets giving me over 1 hours worth of buffs from these things alone. These three things alone a shed load of stat boosts before applying any other buffs. Well worth doing for those who may not know about them. Think I was up to 1hour 25mins worth of offensive and defensive buffs!

I stayed alongside the Commander and moved where they moved and amazingly only died twice. We absolutely decimated Soo-Won and I got my reward! Think there was about 6 or 7 minutes left on the timer.

I just wish I could remember the name of the Commander!!

Thank you guys.


 

[Avenrise.3592]

Well there's the nerf (or what looks a lot like one). Glad I managed to get it done beforehand :)

[Astralporing.1957]

4 hours ago, Tails.9372 said:

That's not necessarily the case, there is no inherent reason why an expansion where all 4-5 OW maps are essentially 50-100 man hardcore raids couldn't work.

In theory, sure, it could work. In practice such an expansion would be a double failure. Not only it would not be very popular (because only a small part of GW2 population is interested in any form of hardcore content), but it would make all the remaining players to react even worse than if they've got no expansion at all. You'd end up with unpopular expansion, and game losing players.

Yes, that certainly seems like a good idea.

[Seth Moonshadow.2710]

• "Updated the defiance bar mechanic of the final encounter in the Battle for the Jade Sea meta-event to be more consistent and not reliant on chance. This change should ensure more opportunities for players to engage with the defiance bar mechanic and allow for additional damage phases.
• Reduced the amount of control effects needed to break the defiance bar of whirlpools in the final boss encounter of the "Battle for the Jade Sea" meta-event." ~Ruby

 

I hope this leads to more PUGs being successful also. I likely wont have time tonight but will definitely play it more tomorrow and see how things go.

 

Thank you and the Team for all you have done.💖

 

[Tails.9372]

4 hours ago, Seth Moonshadow.2710 said:

The "meta" system or Dynamic events system is is a majority of the play we do.

Well yeah, that's exactly what you would expect if there are no real alternatives for endgame content with good replay value that don't fall into the "challenging content" category which atm don't really exist.

4 hours ago, Seth Moonshadow.2710 said:

That's no different than telling us "get good or get gone".

Well that's a peculiar way to phrase it as this is arguably already the case for every content aimed at the more "hardcore" part of the playerbase and people generally don't have an issue with it as long as nothing major is locked behind it.

1 hour ago, Astralporing.1957 said:

In theory, sure, it could work. In practice such an expansion would be a double failure. Not only it would not be very popular (because only a small part of GW2 population is interested in any form of hardcore content), but it would make all the remaining players to react even worse than if they've got no expansion at all. You'd end up with unpopular expansion, and game losing players.

That's pretty much just a baseless assumption. Are people (and with that I mean your average casual player) mad because most PoF metas are dead? Are they mad because TT is aimed at "hardcore players" instead of them? No, of course not. As long as whatever else the other main core features are is not locked behind "hardcore content" then I don't see the player base reacting in an overly negative way. Especially if the rest actually manages to deliver and isn't undermined by other ulterior motives from the devs.

Edited March 17, 2022 by Tails.9372

[Astralporing.1957]

46 minutes ago, Tails.9372 said:

That's pretty much just a baseless assumption. Are people (and with that I mean your average casual player) mad because most PoF metas are dead? Are they mad because TT is aimed at "hardcore players" instead of them? No, of course not.

PoF was very much aiming at a casual playerbase. Serpent's Ire was not an attempt at hardcore event, it was just badly designed. And TT was an individual completely side event on casual-aimed OW map that was quite easy to ignore.

That's not wnat was being talked here - what was being mentioned was an expansion with all OW maps being hardcore-focused ("an expansion where all 4-5 OW maps are essentially 50-100 man hardcore raids"). That means an expansion with no content at all for a vast majority of GW2 players.

Again, yeah, i am so sure that would go smashingly well.

Edited March 17, 2022 by Astralporing.1957

[Oikodomos.7102]

3 hours ago, Andy.5981 said:

Decided to come back to this thread after my earlier post, to say thank you to the Squad that did the DE meta this afternoon (UK time).

The Commander clearly knew their stuff giving instructions in chat and I basically stayed at their side.

I'd adapted my Mesmer build to a raid build with lots of boons, made sure I had done 10 events in the zone and gone round repeatedly syphoning all the Jade batteries to enable me to take the buffs from the Offensive and Defensive turrets giving me over 1 hours worth of buffs from these things alone. These three things alone a shed load of stat boosts before applying any other buffs. Well worth doing for those who may not know about them. Think I was up to 1hour 25mins worth of offensive and defensive buffs!

I stayed alongside the Commander and moved where they moved and amazingly only died twice. We absolutely decimated Soo-Won and I got my reward! Think there was about 6 or 7 minutes left on the timer.

I just wish I could remember the name of the Commander!!

Thank you guys.


 

GG to you for completing the meta. Now you know a bit more about the fight, i hope you will return to the meta and help everyone to enjoyit to the best.

[Will.9785]

I'm done with the game until this meta is nerfed to where your average group can clear it and the rewards are buffed (1 antique summoning stone and 30 chests full of junk isn't going to cut it for 2 hours of play time).  I've cleared it twice out of 30 or so runs.  Not worth my time to play this.  Not at all.

Edited March 18, 2022 by Will.9785

[Tails.9372]

38 minutes ago, Astralporing.1957 said:

PoF was very much aiming at a casual playerbase.

Which just further validates my point, if people don't care all too much about content which was actually made for them then they're even less likely to care about content they know wasn't designed for them in the first place.

38 minutes ago, Astralporing.1957 said:

And TT was an individual completely side event on casual-aimed OW map that was quite easy to ignore.

That doesn't really mean much as the exact same thing can be said about almost all meta events except for some rare exemptions (e.g. Dragon's Stand).

38 minutes ago, Astralporing.1957 said:

That's not wnat was being talked here - what was being mentioned was an expansion with all OW maps being hardcore-focused ("an expansion where all 4-5 OW maps are essentially 50-100 man hardcore raids"). That means an expansion with no content at all for a vast majority of GW2 players.

Now that is just incredibly disingenuous, in the post you're referencing I gave a specific example of what I was talking about so giving 4-5 metas to the hardcore part of the playerbase hardly means an "expansion with no content at all for a vast majority of GW2 players".

Edited March 18, 2022 by Tails.9372

[Ordin.9047]

What do the stupid bosses on the jade isles have to do with the story?  They seem to be there as a time sponge.

[Dinova.8597]

I got my turtle, my job is done. And though even i still try to get in a group to wack the stupid dragon again, 99% of the time i end up 'map is full' problems. 

 

Yes, i managed to take him down, yes it was a organised group, yes people mostly know what they were doing.. no, i still think its a shitshow of mechanics.

[morsdood.1987]

44 minutes ago, Will.9785 said:

I'm done with the game until this meta is nerfed to where your average group can clear it and the rewards are buffed (1 antique summoning stone and 30 chests full of junk isn't going to cut it for 2 hours of play time).  I've cleared it twice out of 30 or so runs.  Not worth my time to play this.  Not at all.

You were playing the game exclusively for this meta?

[Ordin.9047]

Well.... We should have won again just now except the 3 bosses on the isles have too much health. Plus after we got back to burn in the last minute...... the tail sprang up at the same time as an acid attack. This isn't even about the mechanics now... This is just the stupid random crap that messes it up.

[Zabi Zabi.3561]

3 hours ago, Ordin.9047 said:

What do the stupid bosses on the jade isles have to do with the story?  They seem to be there as a time sponge.

Each one is supposed to represent one of the dragons elements which has now become "voided"

[Gorem.8104]

Noticeable difference after the update?