LFG Needs changing - Strike missions are super inaccessible

[ribchop.1736]

First of let me just say having completed the kaining overlook strike, the strike itself is a 11/10 - am very excited to see what comes of CM versions of these, the mechanics were fun to learn and the whole fight felt interesting. 

Something I think everyone talks about already is how not good LFG is currently. I think this has gotten even worse with everyone who wants the turtle (so everyone) being forced to do a strike mission for it. Even figuring out how to join a Strike for the first time, was super confusing, I have a feeling a good portion of the population does not know that they even exist currently as they're hidden in the bottom of the LFG menu.

As someone who hasn't previously frequented something that requires the LFG tool as a solo - the experience is horrible, especially if you're a DPS. We really need to have some form of strike 'queue' as well with some types of role selections. If you're not running with a guild / people you know you're basically forced to start your own group, or sit there and stare and refresh till someone starts one. I really hope we see some form of queue system for strikes at some point because if the others are anything like Kaining overlook, it'd be a shame if a good part of the population is missing out on a core game feature as good as this.

 

[Raap.9065]

With Anet leaning more heavily into instanced content, they really need to start thinking of adding a group finder for the 'easy/normal' modes.

Having recently completed Kaining Overlook as both my first (and likely last) strike mission, I have to say that I didn't see anything super complicated. The mechanics are often self-explanatory or can be explained with a few brief words in chat. All you really need is a setup of 8 DPS and 2 healers, which is the type of thing an automated group finder system should easily be able to handle.

Without such a system, I'm not likely to ever set another foot into a strike mission - and especially never a raid. Not that I found the content too difficult, but because having to deal with the GW2 community gate-keeping the content via insane group join requirements.

[mythical.6315]

Group finder would be DOA. 
 

What they can do is revamp the LFG categories and compress them further including getting rid of some that are unnecessary or not even used. 

[ribchop.1736]

48 minutes ago, mythical.6315 said:

Group finder would be DOA. 
 

What they can do is revamp the LFG categories and compress them further including getting rid of some that are unnecessary or not even used. 

I don't agree - a group finder would allow people to actually play instanced content where otherwise they'd have to form their own group to do so. Revamping the LFG categories won't fix the fact that a good chunk of the game's content is hidden in a menu, and (outside of EOD which has you do strikes as part of the story) only alluded to via in game mail. Think it's a bit ignorant to say a group finder would be 'dead on arrival' and not have any backing to what you're saying. There is a good portion of people I've ran into that only learned how to use the crappy LFG in pursuit of the turtle, and even then groups are hard to come by unless you're watching it like a hawk.

[mythical.6315]

5 hours ago, ribchop.1736 said:

I don't agree - a group finder would allow people to actually play instanced content where otherwise they'd have to form their own group to do so. Revamping the LFG categories won't fix the fact that a good chunk of the game's content is hidden in a menu, and (outside of EOD which has you do strikes as part of the story) only alluded to via in game mail. Think it's a bit ignorant to say a group finder would be 'dead on arrival' and not have any backing to what you're saying. There is a good portion of people I've ran into that only learned how to use the crappy LFG in pursuit of the turtle, and even then groups are hard to come by unless you're watching it like a hawk.

Group finder doesn’t work with the GW2 content that needs roles.  We have something similar with public instances and you can see how popular those are with strikes. Why not create a group that says something like “Casual run. All welcome”?

Strikes are not a part of the story.

If you want to see more info about group finder then perform a search on the forums. This topic has already been discussed numerous times. 

Edited March 18, 2022 by mythical.6315

[Cuks.8241]

I used to be big fan of automated group finder for GW2. But now that I have played instanced pve much more I am not sure it will work. In mmorpgs where it works you have very clear roles based on class and/or gear. The game can easily identify if someone is really a healer or not. In gw2 the professions and builds are much more open with much more variety. Its really hard for algorhytm to figure out if someone is actually a healer or not. It could get easily exploited by players signing up for roles that have lowest queues with builds that are not build for that.

Additional problem comes that this no trinity model has turned out even more complex. We now dont have 3 roles but more because of all the boon supporting which is just soooo strong. So now you want at least full alac and quickness. And quick can be covered by a dps/quick or heal/quick. And this just makes a mess when you want to form a group. 

I agree that normal strikes could be easily done with 2 heals and 8 dps. Forget about boons. Anet tried with the public version but it was a complete fail in IBS. But it was also a half attempt. 

LFG could be improved though. A lot. Just more accessible and user friendly. Maybe ability to post squads with predetermined roles so players can self assign at joining. Now you post a group: heal/alac/quick/BS, 9 players join and then we try to figure out how to shuffle if possible because we have 4 heals, 3 BS, 1 quick and no alac. Also please just enable us to enter an instance from anywhere. Its just a pain that if I want to change character to provide better utility for the group I have to often go through 3 loading screens. 

[soul.9651]

Its not lfg what has to change its players themselfs need to be more accepting.. its community's problem

 

[IAmNotMatthew.1058]

30 minutes ago, Borked.6824 said:

Not sure why you think this content needs roles.  Just because you and 50 of the loud sweaty tryhards say you need 100% alac/quickness uptime doesn't mean you need it.  You can probably clear 80% of all content in this game with 10 core thieves, but you won't "bucuz I got thu reezenz bro".

"Raiders are toxic"

[Laken.9018]

LFG isn't the problem. For the first week I was able to get into some chill groups as people didn't know mechanics but learning period is up now and now the raiders are slapping "You must be this tall to play" up.

Nothings changed. Just "that crowd" has now moved in. This is why Strike content needs to be 100% optional for all things moving forward and everything from strikes and raids need to be purchasable or acquirable by other means.

[Ombras.2853]

Yes, more complaining.

Of course, making your own group is never an option.

Strange.

 

There are both kind of players.

The ones who are willing to stay hours in an instance trying to clear the game, and the ones who want to clear it in a few minutes.

If you’re part of the first, just ask for something like “Chill run, all welcome”. In my experience, these groups are getting filled very quickly.

So, stop telling people what they should do and how they should play.

This is toxicity, not the other way around.

[Desh.7028]

4 hours ago, mythical.6315 said:

Group finder doesn’t work with content that needs roles.

 

Tell that to all the MMOs out there with tank/healer/dd roles and group finder tools. It's actually a long list.

Those roles where not part of the core GW2 design and crept in and got big with raids and now we've got the result (that and how raid content is accessible by industry standards but isolationist by choice).

[mythical.6315]

28 minutes ago, Desh.7028 said:

 

Tell that to all the MMOs out there with tank/healer/dd roles and group finder tools. It's actually a long list.

Those roles where not part of the core GW2 design and crept in and got big with raids and now we've got the result (that and how raid content is accessible by industry standards but isolationist by choice).

Those games are different from GW2. 

Actually, I’ll add on to the post as I can see how you got confused. My phrasing wasn’t the greatest. 

Edited March 18, 2022 by mythical.6315

[Labjax.2465]

It's a pretty antiquated LFG tool. Could definitely use some polishing.

Things I can think of off the top of my head that might help:

- icons you can choose (with a tooltip to explain what they mean if you hover over) that designate things like: chill run, speed run, learning the fight, things like that

- automatic inclusion of map ID for open world, so people aren't having to do the IP thing that from what I've read isn't even really accurate as a unique ID

- role expectations you can set and people joining can choose to join based on a specific role

In other words, make more automated some of the tedious aspects of trying to organize it all.

Also, a dedicated window for it wouldn't hurt. It's practically hidden, being under Contacts and LFG and being the 2nd tab down.

Along with separating Open World, Instanced, and Other into separate category headers. And highlighting and expanding the one you are currently in by default (e.g. if you're in Verdant Brink, it would expand Heart of Thorns set and highlight Verdant Brink).

Edited March 18, 2022 by Labjax.2465

[Rasimir.6239]

10 hours ago, Desh.7028 said:

 

Tell that to all the MMOs out there with tank/healer/dd roles and group finder tools. It's actually a long list.

You mean MMOs like ESO? It's probably the closest to GW2 in the way that each class can be built to match each role. Check out their forums/reddit if you want to see how that changes things. Hint: look for the frequent complaint threads about people signing up as healer/tank with dps builds to skip queues, or people being kicked for bringing a role on the "wrong" class.

 

Let's face it, most people don't just expect a certain role in their party, they expect a specific built of a specific class, and are unwilling (or even unable) to adjust if they are faced with somebody on a different built that the one they expected. Even in games with roles hardcoded into classes you'll find people rage-quitting if the role isn't filled by the exact class that is considered meta at a given time.

[GoldenPants.1870]

17 hours ago, Raap.9065 said:

but because having to deal with the GW2 community gate-keeping the content via insane group join requirements.

And as always, if you believe this is the case, the best solution is to start your own group with no/less requirements.

[Vidit.7108]

There was already a topic about this pretty recently. You can maybe get away with tossing randoms together in EoD strikes (except harvest) but an automatic group finder falls apart in harder content. Even though you are seeing specific role requests in EoD strikes the classes that can fill them aren't actually that similar. They are not as interchangeable as you might be led to believe.

Someone who takes the "quickness" role can sometimes have a lot of power over the group's dps. I've had a bad healbrand drop from my group in fractals and our clear time went up by a lot when we got a new one that knew what they were doing.

Experienced players are also pretty unlikely to ever use it. There is already a lot of private groups and discords dedicated to going around the LFG and guaranteeing specific builds and levels of skill. If PUGs were forced into a new automatic sorting system there is going to be even less experienced players doing this content that way.

[Taclism.2406]

Imagine a game with no alac / quickness

[Peterson.5172]

an lfg tool might not help much, but it cant hurt.

end of the day, gw2's problem is needing to raise the playerbase skill floor, lfg tools are worthless if all the random groups are fails

[Desh.7028]

14 hours ago, mythical.6315 said:

Those games are different from GW2. 

Actually, I’ll add on to the post as I can see how you got confused. My phrasing wasn’t the greatest. 

 

But I'm not confused. Those games were different from GW2 and the difference today has eroded.

GW2 now also has a trifecta: boon hybrid/full support/pure DPS as opposed to tank/healer/dps

The difference here is not worth mentioning when it comes to how a group finder could work theoretically.

 

2 hours ago, Taclism.2406 said:

Imagine a game with no permanent AoE alac / quickness (sic)

 

As a bonus on some skills for some builds it'd be perfectly fine and also how it started out.

[Blaeys.3102]

The EOD Strikes need to use the same system the IBS strikes do, prompting you to join a public or private group when you go in - at least for the non CM versions of the fights.

[mythical.6315]

1 hour ago, Desh.7028 said:

But I'm not confused. Those games were different from GW2 and the difference today has eroded.

GW2 now also has a trifecta: boon hybrid/full support/pure DPS as opposed to tank/healer/dps

The difference here is not worth mentioning when it comes to how a group finder could work theoretically.

It hasn’t eroded. The trifecta you claim exists in GW2 behaves very differently from other games. Many classes can perform different roles depending on how they’re traited. It’s very difficult to police that through a group finder. 
 

I have yet to see why a group finder is superior to creating a LFG that states it’s for a casual run and all welcome. Why create an entirely new system, which has already shown to be ineffective in the game, when we have an existing system that would perform more or less the same as what those asking for a group finder are hoping to achieve?

[Woof.8246]

Just now, mythical.6315 said:

It hasn’t eroded. The trifecta you claim exists in GW2 behaves very differently from other games. Many classes can perform different roles depending on how they’re traited. It’s very difficult to police that through a group finder. 
 

I have yet to see why a group finder is superior to creating a LFG that states it’s for a casual run and all welcome. Why create an entirely new system, which has already shown to be ineffective in the game, when we have an existing system that would perform more or less the same as what those asking for a group finder are hoping to achieve?

Shouldn't we , put Instanced Content as Outdoor  and use the Auto-Megaserver instead ?

So we wont need the Old LFG or group finder and as far as guild's organization goes  , we can use a guild portal leading to that  ?

Edited March 18, 2022 by Woof.8246

[Labjax.2465]

On 3/18/2022 at 8:32 AM, Vidit.7108 said:

There is already a lot of private groups and discords dedicated to going around the LFG and guaranteeing specific builds and levels of skill. If PUGs were forced into a new automatic sorting system there is going to be even less experienced players doing this content that way.

The way I envision it, it doesn't need to be forced. More like in-between its current state and what you'd usually see in an MMO group finder tool. Say you're making a group for a strike, you the squad leader optionally set the min number of people you want for specific roles. People who hit 'join' can choose to join on the premise of filling a specific of that role or unspecified role, which notifies you. You can confirm with them as they join the group what they are running and yeah they can try to BS it, but it should make it a bit easier to organize things on the fly.

Edited March 20, 2022 by Labjax.2465

[Linken.6345]

2 hours ago, Labjax.2465 said:

The way I envision it, it doesn't need to be forced. More like in-between its current state and what you'd usually see in an MMO group finder tool. Say you're making a group for a strike, you the squad leader optionally set the min number of people you want for specific roles. People who hit 'join' can choose to join on the premise of filling a specific of that role or unspecified role, which notifies you. You can confirm with them as they join the group what they are running and yeah they can try to BS it, but it should make it a bit easier to organize things on the fly.

If you still have to vet then how is it not the same as 2 quick, 2 alac, 2 heal, 4 dps?

[Labjax.2465]

13 minutes ago, Linken.6345 said:

If you still have to vet then how is it not the same as 2 quick, 2 alac, 2 heal, 4 dps?

Less variables and info to hold in your hold is what I'm thinking, basically. And maybe easier for people to navigate who are newer to LFG. Maybe for you, you do it so much, it sounds superfluous, but like, consider it this way maybe it will make sense: a squad can be split into subgroups. Technically, without that feature, you could still split it into groups in your head and in chat, but it would be harder to organize it and remember who is expected to do what and be where and so on.