Why did the Forever Tree kill Doireann?

[Dreamreaver.4908]

Why'd it kill her and how? And what exactly happened there after the ritual completed (besides putting the tree in bloom that is)? And how did the Warden bring her back?

 

So many questions!!

Edited March 23, 2022 by KidRoleplay.3615

[NotTooFoolish.7412]

I think you could tie this to the GW mission: The Eternal Grove.
Forever Trees were used by Kurzicks to create Juggernauts. It is a process of tying the soul to a tree. With humans I would assume their normal body dies in the process. The result is kind of immortal getting reborn near the tree upon death.

Sylvari are kind of plants already which is why not much seems to change after the ritual. At least that's how I make sense of it.

[Zola.6197]

My personal interpretation after completing the event chain was that she died due to the strain the magical ritual took on her, and the Warden revived her as reward for her efforts to protect and revive the tree.

 

Would have loved to see more about this in Echovald. More curious sylvari, more about the wardens, and more about Doireann and the forever tree.

 

Are all Wardens connected to a tree like the one we saw next to the forever tree? Text seemed to imply he had a psychic connection with that tree, though that sounds like juggernauts. Granted my Echovald lore knowledge is pretty sparse.

 

I know Urgoz banished his brother Dreslav into a Warden’s body… Could the forever tree Warden be Urgoz in a similar repressed state?

Edited March 23, 2022 by Zola.6197

[Kalavier.1097]

Urgoz's warren/mine is sealed off in Zu Helzter. I didn't take the ritual as killing Doireann, just knocking her out.

 

The warden is weird, but it could be that he simply did a personal vow to ensure the Forever trees don't get wiped out?

[Ehecatl.9172]

3 hours ago, Kalavier.1097 said:

Urgoz's warren/mine is sealed off in Zu Helzter. I didn't take the ritual as killing Doireann, just knocking her out.

 

The warden is weird, but it could be that he simply did a personal vow to ensure the Forever trees don't get wiped out?

 

If you talk to Doireann she suggests the warden is actually a juggernaut that is bound to the Forever Tree. My takeaway there was that Anet didn't want to make a whole new model unique for this one juggernaut and so just re-used the warden model for the event.

[Konig Des Todes.2086]

Wait, I never saw Doireann die?

Is it tied to failing the ritual? When she completed the ritual for me, she was alive and well for the next few minutes (I didn't see the Forever Tree unbloom though...).

4 hours ago, Zola.6197 said:

Are all Wardens connected to a tree like the one we saw next to the forever tree? Text seemed to imply he had a psychic connection with that tree, though that sounds like juggernauts. Granted my Echovald lore knowledge is pretty sparse.

 

I know Urgoz banished his brother Dreslav into a Warden’s body… Could the forever tree Warden be Urgoz in a similar repressed state?

As @Ehecatl.9172 said, Doireann suggests the warden is actually a juggernaut. It's unclear whether this would apply to all wardens (though GW1 lore does suggest that all wardens were formally humans who underwent a plantifying ritual - similar to both druids and juggernauts).

As for the Warden's body - Dreslav said his warden body prison remains wandering out there, so I took the mute warden to be the warden Dreslav was imprisoned in, hence the oddities of it, and why the warden is so focused on the growth of the forest, just as Dreslav is the forest spirit of growth.

[Kalavier.1097]

13 minutes ago, Ehecatl.9172 said:

 

If you talk to Doireann she suggests the warden is actually a juggernaut that is bound to the Forever Tree. My takeaway there was that Anet didn't want to make a whole new model unique for this one juggernaut and so just re-used the warden model for the event.

 

She thinks it might be, but nothing actually says it is. Arborstone has a record which states the Ministry of Purity killed the tree singers and burnt the grove of Forever trees, turning the linked Juggernauts to ash.

 

1 minute ago, Konig Des Todes.2086 said:

Wait, I never saw Doireann die?

Is it tied to failing the ritual? When she completed the ritual for me, she was alive and well for the next few minutes (I didn't see the Forever Tree unbloom though...).

As @Ehecatl.9172 said, Doireann suggests the warden is actually a juggernaut. It's unclear whether this would apply to all wardens (though GW1 lore does suggest that all wardens were formally humans who underwent a plantifying ritual - similar to both druids and juggernauts).

As for the Warden's body - Dreslav said his warden body prison remains wandering out there, so I took the mute warden to be the warden Dreslav was imprisoned in, hence the oddities of it, and why the warden is so focused on the growth of the forest, just as Dreslav is the forest spirit of growth.

 

After the ritual she collapses, but isn't listed as dead. The warden goes over and helps her up.

 

I don't believe the warden is the juggernaut, the "Dreslav's former body" seems to be a better angle. Obsessively guarding the forever tree to ensure that they regrow and survive/spread.

[Zola.6197]

I’d have to go do the event again, but after she collapses the Warden “helps her up” by pointing at her, and then she’s restored to full health through some kind of magic and stands up. When she’s restored she says:

Doireann: What happened? Did I... did we...

Doireann: You saved me. [to the Warden]

To me, it implies that she died, or would’ve died, without the Warden’s intervention.
 

The wiki notes that this scene only happens sometimes, which is curious, and not every time the event is completed! It also explicitly states she dies, though I don’t know if that’s simply the editor’s interpretation. It was certainly mine, at least.

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Protect_the_sylvari_until_the_ritual_is_complete

Edit: The wiki page notes that there’s a blue flash of light from the forever tree after he points at her.
 

I wonder if she’s connected to the forever tree now? Or if the blue light could be related to Dreslav, who manifests as a blue mote of light.

Edited March 24, 2022 by Zola.6197

[Kalavier.1097]

Question since the old historical guide to tyria hasn't been updated. How does the GW2 Forever tree location compare to the GW1 forever tree grove location?

 

Cause I was wondering if could be a case of Purity burnt the grove down, but Dreslav had seeds for forever trees and later replanted it, given how the location is secluded and not even really visited by any of the factions or locals. His warden body forever stays there to guard the tree, silent. Meanwhile the tree grows slowly since there are no tree singers to help strengthen it. The book "The burning of the forever trees" mentions that without the singers, the forever trees would've died anyway.

[TeeracK.3601]

I don't think she died just came close to it.

[Konig Des Todes.2086]

1 hour ago, Kalavier.1097 said:

Question since the old historical guide to tyria hasn't been updated. How does the GW2 Forever tree location compare to the GW1 forever tree grove location?

Well, it's due east of Saint Anjeka's Shrine, which you can see is quite a bit north of The Eternal Grove in GW1 (The Echovald Wilds doesn't even give us Drazach Thicket): https://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Echovald_Forest/Map

It's basically located in that black spot (wasn't directly accessible in GW1 due to no true free z-axis movement), which I think in GW1 was just a giant stone tree - much larger than any Forever Tree in GW1.

[Dreamreaver.4908]

4 hours ago, TeeracK.3601 said:

I don't think she died just came close to it.

Well, whatever the case may be, she definitely falls to zero percent health and does the typical dying voice and falls over.

[TeeracK.3601]

42 minutes ago, KidRoleplay.3615 said:

Well, whatever the case may be, she definitely falls to zero percent health and does the typical dying voice and falls over.

the jade brother hood people also warn her she will regret doing this, so who knows. Maybe she is now bound to the tree and will figure it out once she tries to leave.

[Kalavier.1097]

I highly doubt she's outright killed, because we get plenty of npcs who hit 0 HP but can be revived. More likely she gets knocked out and the Warden revives her.

[Lord Trejgon.2809]

15 hours ago, Ehecatl.9172 said:

My takeaway there was that Anet didn't want to make a whole new model unique for this one juggernaut and so just re-used the warden model for the event.

Well they did mix up wardens and juggernauts in the stream talking about eod characters when talking about Tetra, so I would not put it past them for mixing these two up again here.

(they said on that stream that "wardens are kurzicks that underwent the ritual to become these big forrest protectors", alot of people took this as simple mistake with no reflection on the lore of the game)

[Sajuuk Khar.1509]

4 hours ago, Lord Trejgon.2809 said:

Well they did mix up wardens and juggernauts in the stream talking about eod characters when talking about Tetra, so I would not put it past them for mixing these two up again here.

(they said on that stream that "wardens are kurzicks that underwent the ritual to become these big forrest protectors", alot of people took this as simple mistake with no reflection on the lore of the game)

Well, the Factions manual did state that Wardens were possibly human druids/holy men who fused with spirits to become the protectors of the forest they are now.

That would make them humans(likely ancient Kurzicks) who underwent some ritual to become what they are. Akin to how the Tyrian druids did a ritual to become the spirit creatures they are.

Edited March 24, 2022 by Sajuuk Khar.1509

[Konig Des Todes.2086]

17 hours ago, KidRoleplay.3615 said:

Well, whatever the case may be, she definitely falls to zero percent health and does the typical dying voice and falls over.

That's not certainty of death though, as the game treats "hitting 0 percent health" as either being knocked unconscious or dying. The main difference is whether or not you can be revived.

With NPCs, it's a crapshoot on whether they can be or not. And since this seems scripted, it's even more of a crapshoot as to whether it means death or unconsciousness.

9 hours ago, Sajuuk Khar.1509 said:

Well, the Factions manual did state that Wardens were possibly human druids/holy men who fused with spirits to become the protectors of the forest they are now.

That would make them humans(likely ancient Kurzicks) who underwent some ritual to become what they are. Akin to how the Tyrian druids did a ritual to become the spirit creatures they are.

Could make them the potential proto-Kurzicks that built Altrumm Ruins, too.

Edited March 25, 2022 by Konig Des Todes.2086

[draxynnic.3719]

On 3/24/2022 at 10:34 AM, Kalavier.1097 said:

 

She thinks it might be, but nothing actually says it is. Arborstone has a record which states the Ministry of Purity killed the tree singers and burnt the grove of Forever trees, turning the linked Juggernauts to ash.

Mind you, if there was one that somehow survived, it's possible that a linked Juggernaut would have survived as well. We know that in GW1 Juggernauts could range a long distance away from their tree once created (some of them show up as enemies in Luxon-affiliated events in the Jade Sea...), so it's possible that a tree could have survived and the Ministry of Purity didn't realise that it survived if any juggernauts linked to it were not present to fight them.