Legend of Rogue.5394 Posted March 29, 2022 Share Posted March 29, 2022 I always heard the CDs were not the problem but the lack of variability in the skills and base damage in itself? For a duelist class it suffers compared to other duelist classes. Does changing CDs actually effect it when the damage variable is so low to begin with? What do you all think? 1 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Monarc.9726 Posted March 29, 2022 Share Posted March 29, 2022 I think Willbender Flames need to be made more useful in pvp/wvw before they can expect them to compete with DH. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KeoLegend.5132 Posted March 29, 2022 Share Posted March 29, 2022 In practice the only buff is in Righteous Instincts. Now that it gives more crit chance it opens up some spot for for tankier gear 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrAmputatoes.6031 Posted March 29, 2022 Share Posted March 29, 2022 Willbender flames can be ignored and the animation lock is still a big issue. Yeah its technically more mobile than core guardian, but core and DH can provide better burst. Its meant to be a "roamer" similar to thief for pvp, but it lacks the reliable disengage and with low healing from Flowing Resolve, its squishy as heck. Going with a tanky amulet means its damage is subpar, even with the change to Righteous Instincts. 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
quaniesan.8497 Posted March 30, 2022 Share Posted March 30, 2022 Willbender is more enjoyable in open world to collect loots and nodes. Other than that, you best stick with DH = better range/melee bust and some decent mobility. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
De Bourgogne.9642 Posted March 30, 2022 Share Posted March 30, 2022 Yes it is good. Run radiance virtures with physical heal, meditations, invun elite sword sword gs, marauder amulet divinity. You have 100% crit chance with 19k hp you pump damage. It is not meta build or anything but its good. Harder to pilot than DH and more fun ofc. 1 1 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arken.3725 Posted March 30, 2022 Share Posted March 30, 2022 (edited) Willbender is better in spvp but not nearly good enough. It doesn't fix all the underlying issue's such as the following: -Backloaded dmg is still there from symbols -Sustain still a problem. Vitality wasn't the main issue -Still hard to land dmg given you still don't have a lot of soft-cc/superspeed/quickness -Physical skills are still bad -Whirling light still bugged and doesn't hit behind you -Lacks fury -Slightly rework Advancing strike to be half dash and half port vs 90% dash and 10% port currently. -Maybe add 1 condition cleanse to F2 in addition to the movement cleanses. Edited March 30, 2022 by Arken.3725 1 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gwaihir.1745 Posted March 30, 2022 Share Posted March 30, 2022 10 hours ago, McPero.3287 said: Yes it is good. Run radiance virtures with physical heal, How to identify a free kill above silver. 1 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
De Bourgogne.9642 Posted March 31, 2022 Share Posted March 31, 2022 (edited) 11 hours ago, Gwaihir.1745 said: How to identify a free kill above silver. Tell it to this man https://www.twitch.tv/notoriousnaru/v/1440961042?sr=a&t=2s Edited March 31, 2022 by McPero.3287 4 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saiyan.1704 Posted March 31, 2022 Share Posted March 31, 2022 46 minutes ago, McPero.3287 said: Tell it to this man the link isn't working for me for some reason Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
De Bourgogne.9642 Posted March 31, 2022 Share Posted March 31, 2022 54 minutes ago, Saiyan.1704 said: the link isn't working for me for some reason Try now. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
De Bourgogne.9642 Posted March 31, 2022 Share Posted March 31, 2022 (edited) 12 hours ago, Arken.3725 said: Willbender is better in spvp but not nearly good enough. It doesn't fix all the underlying issue's such as the following: -Backloaded dmg is still there from symbols -Sustain still a problem. Vitality wasn't the main issue -Still hard to land dmg given you still don't have a lot of soft-cc/superspeed/quickness -Physical skills are still bad -Whirling light still bugged and doesn't hit behind you -Lacks fury -Slightly rework Advancing strike to be half dash and half port vs 90% dash and 10% port currently. -Maybe add 1 condition cleanse to F2 in addition to the movement cleanses. It needs more buffs to be competitive meta yes. But is it a good ranked build? Yes. F2 proc rate could be lowered to 3 hits for more sustain but it is decent now. HP was definitely an issue which free damage that you get now from traits compensates loss from running mara over zerker. You have 2s immob now on sword offhand. But maybe virtures swiftness could be changed to superspeed. You don't need quickness. I agree physical skills are mostly bad but does it really matter when meditations exist? I think the only interesting physical skill is the port which shouldn't have any conditions to giving backport. So just change that one to not require to hit any damage to gain access to backport. You don't need fury when you have permanent 40% crit chance from radiance. With marauder divinity you got 100,1% crit chance and 198% crit mod. You also don't need cleanse on F2 because you already cleanse all movement condis and then you run cleanse in virtures which has no icd and it is really strong and also brings teamfight utility since F2 is two charges low cd and you provide cleanse for allies. Edited March 31, 2022 by McPero.3287 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dralor.3701 Posted March 31, 2022 Share Posted March 31, 2022 Doesn’t oh sword suck or am I missing something? Been running gs sword/focus for roaming. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KeoLegend.5132 Posted March 31, 2022 Share Posted March 31, 2022 3 hours ago, Dralor.3701 said: Doesn’t oh sword suck or am I missing something? Been running gs sword/focus for roaming. OH Sword is great for PVP. Good damage, Shadowstep, Immob. Its just less damage than using a GS for example, but is the go to jump in weapon for Willbender Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arken.3725 Posted March 31, 2022 Share Posted March 31, 2022 McPero.3287 I'm not suggesting give it a ton of quickness but a little would help. Also, HP is ALWAYS an issue when it comes to damage but I'd rather have more active defenses than some arbitrary hp increase. Static mechanics do not belong on Willbender(symbols and Willbender flames). You still have almost no soft-cc outside of OH Sword 5. No cripple, chill, other forms of immob, ect. Terribly tracking skills are still a huge problem for guardian(Scepter auto for example) It IS better in ranked but again, not nearly good enough. 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
De Bourgogne.9642 Posted March 31, 2022 Share Posted March 31, 2022 3 hours ago, Arken.3725 said: McPero.3287 I'm not suggesting give it a ton of quickness but a little would help. Also, HP is ALWAYS an issue when it comes to damage but I'd rather have more active defenses than some arbitrary hp increase. Static mechanics do not belong on Willbender(symbols and Willbender flames). You still have almost no soft-cc outside of OH Sword 5. No cripple, chill, other forms of immob, ect. Terribly tracking skills are still a huge problem for guardian(Scepter auto for example) It IS better in ranked but again, not nearly good enough. How would you implement quickness like where would you put it (ability, trait...)? I mean you get arbitrary increase of offensive stats to be able to take amulet rune with defensive passive stats. Don't think a 13k HP spec that relies on active defenses could ever work it would probably be just evade, invun, aegis, blind spam that everyone would hate. That would require guardian rework to begin with removing symbols which are kitten mechanic but let's be real they aren't getting rid off them. I mean on weapons compared to herald, herald has chill on sword 2 but you have port on your sword 2 which helps keeping up. And like I said superspeed on virtues would also work. Almost every profession has weapons with terrible tracking, try landing a ele staff auto lol it is literally a melee weapon. Obviously it's not great but it is not Guardian only issue lol. Not good enough for what? 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dralor.3701 Posted March 31, 2022 Share Posted March 31, 2022 8 hours ago, KeoLegend.5132 said: OH Sword is great for PVP. Good damage, Shadowstep, Immob. Its just less damage than using a GS for example, but is the go to jump in weapon for Willbender Feel like imob is going to get cleansed anyway so focus gives more survivability. Also just initiating with s2 anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arken.3725 Posted March 31, 2022 Share Posted March 31, 2022 @McPero.3287 That's the thing, current Guard, even WB relies on active defenses more than most classes(Aegis). There's a trade-off with the new virtue's with landing strikes to gain benefit and as I've stated earlier, you have a way to get to an enemy player but sticking on them is VERY hard given how you still don't have much speed nor plentiful soft-cc. Symbols and WB flames need to be reworked, they're too static and useless outside of a downed body. Dude, no other class has more poorly tracking skills than Guardian. Here, let me name them all. Great Sword #3 and #5 Scepter Auto Staff Auto(lesser extent than scepter) Long Bow(lesser extent than scepter) Torch #4 throw Sword #3 I'm probably missing a few but name any other class that has more than this. 3 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gwaihir.1745 Posted March 31, 2022 Share Posted March 31, 2022 21 minutes ago, Arken.3725 said: @McPero.3287 That's the thing, current Guard, even WB relies on active defenses more than most classes(Aegis). There's a trade-off with the new virtue's with landing strikes to gain benefit and as I've stated earlier, you have a way to get to an enemy player but sticking on them is VERY hard given how you still don't have much speed nor plentiful soft-cc. Symbols and WB flames need to be reworked, they're too static and useless outside of a downed body. Dude, no other class has more poorly tracking skills than Guardian. Here, let me name them all. Great Sword #3 and #5 Scepter Auto Staff Auto(lesser extent than scepter) Long Bow(lesser extent than scepter) Torch #4 throw Sword #3 I'm probably missing a few but name any other class that has more than this. Hammer 3 Hammer 2 randomly does nothing 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KeoLegend.5132 Posted April 1, 2022 Share Posted April 1, 2022 4 hours ago, Dralor.3701 said: Feel like imob is going to get cleansed anyway so focus gives more survivability. Also just initiating with s2 anyway. 8 out of 10 they doesn't. And if they do, they spent a cleanse on an immob, you can just use F1 and immob again for profit 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dralor.3701 Posted April 1, 2022 Share Posted April 1, 2022 4 hours ago, KeoLegend.5132 said: 8 out of 10 they doesn't. And if they do, they spent a cleanse on an immob, you can just use F1 and immob again for profit I mean we talking WvW or pvp? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nezekan.2671 Posted April 1, 2022 Share Posted April 1, 2022 I consider Willbender S tier in WvW roaming. There are 2 builds that are trending right now, one is power and one is burn. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
myun.6395 Posted April 1, 2022 Share Posted April 1, 2022 On 3/31/2022 at 4:56 AM, McPero.3287 said: Tell it to this man https://www.twitch.tv/notoriousnaru/v/1440961042?sr=a&t=2s Well you can't quote top players. They basically make work any build even if it's weak or off meta. They kite, do good rotations and everything, so this doesn't apply. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saiyan.1704 Posted April 1, 2022 Share Posted April 1, 2022 57 minutes ago, myun.6395 said: Well you can't quote top players. They basically make work any build even if it's weak or off meta. They kite, do good rotations and everything, so this doesn't apply. First off they dont make any build "just work". Naru (and others) played with beta WB then stopped due to beta WB being too trashy. If they're maintaining top 25 on a current build that's supposedly "trash and worse than Core and DH" then clearly the spec has potential. Listing top players, including what AT teams are running, is very valid. WB has a higher skill cap than DH and Core so it's natural for a lot of Guardian players to have difficulty with the spec. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KeoLegend.5132 Posted April 1, 2022 Share Posted April 1, 2022 8 hours ago, Dralor.3701 said: I mean we talking WvW or pvp? both Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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