What's with the damage?

[Sahne.6950]

Just now, Ziegrif.5964 said:

I'd love to have a better breakdown on what killed me.

Once upon a time I got hit from full shroud to downed in about 1 second.

That's about a 50k burst that I have no idea where the hell it came from.

It's less about being mad about being one shot and more about knowing "the kitten was that?!"

If it happend in pvp there is a deathrecord. also you have combat logs. You can 100% see what killed you. You just have to look for it.

If i may have a wild guess...  probably a Soulbeast with OWP. There is some stupidbuilds that will hit 50k damage with Rapidfire and OWP.

[Ziegrif.5964]

1 minute ago, Sahne.6950 said:

If it happend in pvp there is a deathrecord. also you have combat logs. You can 100% see what killed you. You just have to look for it.

If i may have a wild guess...  probably a Soulbeast with OWP. There is some stupidbuilds that will hit 50k damage with Rapidfire and OWP.

 

I do know combat log but what's this death record?

[Sahne.6950]

7 minutes ago, Ziegrif.5964 said:

 

I do know combat log but what's this death record?

if you died there is a countdown to your next respawn. There is a little  " ! " circly next to the number. press it and it will tell you what killed you.

[KeoLegend.5132]

Im eating 13k hits from an Untammed these days.

So if 2 of em get me, my 18k Willbender thougness is helpless

[Enduronex.4865]

On 4/13/2022 at 1:08 PM, Bazsi.2734 said:

Willbender and Catalyst were unplayably bad on EoD release. Does typing falsehoods make people feel better? This is a different dev-team, and what they delivered is also much different from PoF.
Some e-specs were overtuned, some were undertuned... man it's almost like the devs have no such agenda. Could it be that they just suck at finetuning?

100,000 burn damage from Willbenders and non-stop dazes from Catalysts is broken.  It's not a falsehood.  

[Bazsi.2734]

28 minutes ago, memausz.7264 said:

100,000 burn damage from Willbenders and non-stop dazes from Catalysts is broken.  It's not a falsehood.  

Here is the exhaustive list of ways a catalyst can daze you: https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Comet
And you can combo air attu+swap to water on hammer for a possible one second daze... which is the most suboptimal thing I can think of, but IN THEORY a catalyst can daze you two different ways.

Oh the non-stop dazes, the horror. Just wait untill you get targeted by a trickery thief, it has a daze on an even lower cooldown(steal). You'll be "nonstop" stolen into, every time you start to cast something after a 20 second afking(honestly you need the time to deal with the fact that you've just been interrupted), you'll just be interrupted again. And so you need to cope again, but when you emerge from your meditation, the thief can interrupt you again... and you'll never cast anything ever again. You're trapped. Permadaze. So unfair.

"100.000 burn damage from a Willbender" is what I want engraved on my headstone after I'm buried. Lmao.

[jdawgie.1835]

On 4/13/2022 at 11:21 AM, Aktium.9506 said:

I've taken a 10k backstab into 2x 7k HS

The test determined that this is a lie. 

[Vasdamas Anklast.1607]

Protection boon and dodges > your toughness. At least when it comes to SPvP.

[Aktium.9506]

10 hours ago, jdawgie.1835 said:

The test determined that this is a lie. 

Well, I don't have a screen of that specific death card, but I do have a similar one with 14k dmg from 2x HS rounded up and 6.4k from Shadow Shot. So I don't know what test you did, but it sucks.

Edited April 20, 2022 by Aktium.9506

[Abyssisis.3971]

On 4/15/2022 at 4:17 AM, KeoLegend.5132 said:

Im eating 13k hits from an Untammed these days.

So if 2 of em get me, my 18k Willbender thougness is helpless

Is that the total damage they do over the entire fight? 

[Sahne.6950]

1 hour ago, Aktium.9506 said:

Well, I don't have a screen of that specific death card, but I do have a similar one with 14k dmg from HS rounded up and 6.4k from Shadow Shot. So I don't know what test you did, but it sucks.

14k Heartseeker? There is no way on earth that your everyday SA d/p teef hits these numbers. If the thief is running Core with kitten/trickery/CS... then it MIGHT be possible. But even then i doubt that a thief can hit 14k Heartseekers.

[Aktium.9506]

15 minutes ago, Sahne.6950 said:

14k Heartseeker? There is no way on earth that your everyday SA d/p teef hits these numbers. If the thief is running Core with kitten/trickery/CS... then it MIGHT be possible. But even then i doubt that a thief can hit 14k Heartseekers.

My bad, forgot to include the 2x like the OG post.

[Sahne.6950]

3 minutes ago, Aktium.9506 said:

My bad, forgot to include the 2x like the OG post.

you are aware that HS only hits high numbers when you are below 25% hp? its supposed to be a execute. You cant be mad if it executes xD Thats literally the design of it. If you have anything over 25% its like throwing cottonballs at your enemys.... cottonballs that cost initiative! also 6.4k Shadowshot... meeeh With the core critstrikes thingy i talked about... but your everyday Shadowarts thief will hardly ever hit 4k on you.

Edited April 20, 2022 by Sahne.6950

[Aktium.9506]

5 minutes ago, Sahne.6950 said:

you are aware that HS only hits high numbers when you are below 25% hp? its supposed to be a execute. You cant be mad if it executes xD Thats literally the design of it. If you have anything over 25% its like throwing cottonballs at your enemys.... cottonballs that cost initiative! also 6.4k Shadowshot... meeeh With the core critstrikes thingy i talked about... but your everyday Shadowarts thief will hardly ever hit 4k on you.

Well, the point is that you can absolutely get deleted by the current meta's damage. I've also gotten hit by a 14k Rapid Fire + 17k One Wolf Pack recently.

[Sahne.6950]

3 minutes ago, Aktium.9506 said:

Well, the point is that you can absolutely get deleted by the current meta's damage. I've also gotten hit by a 14k Rapid Fire + 17k One Wolf Pack recently.

Thats not a secret. Just play Trapper DH. just pressing 2 on bow will hit between 8-11k on something without toughness. no cap.

But you actually need this damage. The overall time for a good player to die is WAYYY to high. Guildwars is all about active mitigation ( blocks/evade/invuln). The damage is only high if you completly forget to use your defenses.

They call it sustainwars 2 for a reason.

Edited April 20, 2022 by Sahne.6950

[Azure The Heartless.3261]

This thread has a bunch of people complaining about taking damage numbers that would only be possible if both the person dealing the damage and the person receiving the damage were glass amulets/glass traitlines, and its kind of baffling to me that's happening when we have a bunch of builds that need two people to move them.

If you don't wanna get hit for 7-10k, dont use zerker/marauder, or use a mitigative traitline. Cause if you're getting hit for 7-10k from a strike in this meta, odds are you'd do just as much damage to the person that hit you,  and they just managed to hit you first. 

Yall would rather have more bunker than dodge or die? 

Edited April 20, 2022 by Azure The Heartless.3261

[Aktium.9506]

44 minutes ago, Azure The Heartless.3261 said:

This thread has a bunch of people complaining about taking damage numbers that would only be possible if both the person dealing the damage and the person receiving the damage were glass amulets/glass traitlines, and its kind of baffling to me that's happening when we have a bunch of builds that need two people to move them.

If you don't wanna get hit for 7-10k, dont use zerker/marauder, or use a mitigative traitline. Cause if you're getting hit for 7-10k from a strike in this meta, odds are you'd do just as much damage to the person that hit you,  and they just managed to hit you first. 

Yall would rather have more bunker than dodge or die? 

I'm not complaining. Just pointing out that damage is still really high. And yeah, I'm doing just as much damage running Reaper with Spite over BM and Berserker Amulet. We're looking at 6-9k auto attacks in RS. Did a beautiful Axe 2 for 13k into a Spinal Shiver for 10k the other day.

[Lost Elegy.9276]

1 minute ago, Aktium.9506 said:

I'm not complaining. Just pointing out that damage is still really high. And yeah, I'm doing just as much damage running Reaper with Spite over BM and Berserker Amulet. We're looking at 6-9k auto attacks in RS. Did a beautiful Axe 2 for 13k into a Spinal Shiver for 10k the other day.

 

Damage HAS to be high. Anet drank a lot of glue and decided all the self-sustain tools from PvE should make their way into SPvP. The worst offenders being traits. Even with repeated nerfs, sustain is still nutty in this game. Even if we discount the manual pressing of your primary heal skill, plenty of classes have trait lines that provide regeneration, protection, heal on X condition, passive condition removal, and a slew of other behind-the-curtain effects that just honestly shouldn't be there. The power creep over the years added a ton of stun breaks. Truly locking someone down is hard and needs to be rewarded.

 

People HAVE to die in under 5 seconds. If not, people with any sort of investment in defensive options would just never die. 

[Azure The Heartless.3261]

21 minutes ago, Aktium.9506 said:

I'm not complaining. Just pointing out that damage is still really high. And yeah, I'm doing just as much damage running Reaper with Spite over BM and Berserker Amulet. We're looking at 6-9k auto attacks in RS. Did a beautiful Axe 2 for 13k into a Spinal Shiver for 10k the other day.

I think we have different concepts of what damage being high means.

If two people take every trait they have for doing damage, take no defensive options, then attack people without dodging, that doesn't mean the numbers they hit would be indicative of the state of the game, especially when the meta allows them a myriad of defensive options that they can use to prevent that from happening and is currently dominated by builds that succeed by doing just that. 

That's like hitting an ambient creature for 100k with an auto and claiming your damage is high. try that against someone/something even casually trying to stop you. 

Like, if you consider hitting someone for 6k in RS when you're both glass high damage, would a more modest number there still be appealing for you when it gets buffered down to like 1-2k by someone running rabid? 

Edited April 20, 2022 by Azure The Heartless.3261

[Aktium.9506]

2 hours ago, Azure The Heartless.3261 said:

I think we have different concepts of what damage being high means.

I dunno man. I'm looking at it in the context of the Feb 2020 nerfs. A lot of people act like burst was completely neutered and more or less removed when it came about. But the reality is that you can still get your HP dunked from 100 to 0 in 1-2 seconds if you mess up a dodge or get caught with stunbreaks on cd.

2 hours ago, Azure The Heartless.3261 said:

Like, if you consider hitting someone for 6k in RS when you're both glass high damage, would a more modest number there still be appealing for you when it gets buffered down to like 1-2k by someone running rabid? 

The only builds currently running any sort of toughness I can think of on EU plat is Mechanist? Everything else only has semi-passive mitigation from Protection and Weakness. Maybe the odd 5-15% conditional damage reduction from a trait. Otherwise its just active mitigation like blocks, blinds, mobility and counterpressure. Ultra offensive builds will generally hit for full damage when they connect in the current meta, assuming you've played around or circumvented the active defenses put against you.

2 hours ago, Azure The Heartless.3261 said:

If two people take every trait they have for doing damage, take no defensive options, then attack people without dodging, that doesn't mean the numbers they hit would be indicative of the state of the game, especially when the meta allows them a myriad of defensive options that they can use to prevent that from happening and is currently dominated by builds that succeed by doing just that.

I think the meta is currently in one of the healthiest places it's ever been in. At least in terms of build diversity and balance between playstyles. The most meta of builds with all those defensive options have them mostly in the form of active mitigation or defense. Not statchecks or passive traits. Aggressive high damage builds can still function against those builds because they are mostly counterable.

Edited April 20, 2022 by Aktium.9506

[Downstate.4697]

Some professions benefit from active mitigation more than others. Having someone just as tanky running zerker gear get similar benefit to a support build is an issue, but for the most part the things professions give up to achieve stupid damage is fair. Spectre, mech and others are saying bladesworn benefit too much from their design creep and get good sustain with little investment.