Fishing+Weapon Collections=Bad

[EpicName.4523]

Fishing. Some people like to fish. In real life, that is. I don't particularly like it tbh, but to each their own. 

Then comes virtual fishing. In a game. And truth be told, I'd rather be fishing in real life, since at least I get something to eat. Hunting virtual fish is kinda dumb, imho. If I want to punch giant fantasy critter to death irl, I'm gonna have real trouble making it happen, but doing something as mundane as fishing is a completely different story.  

 

But Anet added a feature and they want to showcase it. They want it bad. So bad that they tied acquiring certain weapons to fishing.

 

Let's take the mechanist mace, for example - Percussive Maintenance. One of the requirements is to get "Amber Trout" from Echovald. You need "Lake Fish" to supposedly catch it. Except it says nowhere that you need to look for "Lake Fish" in the first place. You must consult the wiki to get that info. And you can only catch the "Amber Trout" during the day. Except that you can't know that unless you check the wiki again. And personally, I find it very hard to understand if it is day or night in Echovald, in particular.

 

Finally, if you are lucky enough to check the wiki before starting to know when and where you have to catch the fish, you  still have to spend HOURS praying to the RNG Gods in order to finish the collection. I have yet to catch the amazingly rare, virtual, orange fish made from pretty unique pixels and it is getting VERY annoying. My heart bristles with anticipation when the random number generator will hopefully decide that I have finally thrown away enough of my time in order to show my amazing achievement to the world! My orange, virtual, fish! YAY!

 

I have no control over this process, no way to speed it up, skip it or do anything, but pray.  And for a game that is supposedly respecting your time, wasting so much of it in order to catch VIRTUAL fish looks rather excessive? I mean, if you like fishing, fine, just don't make me spend hours on an activity I don't give a F about in order to get what I DO want.

 

[Freya.9075]

If you don’t like fishing, just skip it. It you really want the collection you just get it over with and move on. That’s the normal take on things like this. Is it worth it or not. 
 

I don’t understand your complaint about the lake fish though. You know where to find it if you open your map and see a lake. Or a river. Or open sea for saltwater or offshore fish. It’s pretty easy to figure that one out unless you don’t know what a lake is 🤷🏼‍♀️

[Katastroff.1045]

If you look in the fishing achievement section you'll find this:

https://imgur.com/a/Fi9ot65

[Omega.6801]

+1 fishing is boring low-effort filler content catering to the lowest common denominator of the playerbase. If you can operate three buttons you're in, have fun.
I'm not sure if I thought more of it if you could actually fail to catch a fish, there would probably be lots of threads complaining about it. But as of now, when you have any lure, any bait and the fishing power mastery for the skiff - after ten fish cought - it's close to impossible to fail the minigame if you pay the minimum amount of attention to it.

Edited April 17, 2022 by lokh.2695

[EpicName.4523]

1 hour ago, Freya.9075 said:

If you don’t like fishing, just skip it. It you really want the collection you just get it over with and move on. That’s the normal take on things like this. Is it worth it or not. 
 

I don’t understand your complaint about the lake fish though. You know where to find it if you open your map and see a lake. Or a river. Or open sea for saltwater or offshore fish. It’s pretty easy to figure that one out unless you don’t know what a lake is 🤷🏼‍♀️

If you have already started the collection and rely just on RNG fishing to complete it - it gets frustrating.

Also, in the very same lake in Echovald there is Grotto Fish and Lutgardis Fish, so the choice isn't as obvious as one might think. Imagine attempting to get the kitten thing again and again thinking you did something wrong, so you might as well try the other options even if you are told otherwise.

[Vayne.8563]

3 hours ago, EpicName.4523 said:

If you have already started the collection and rely just on RNG fishing to complete it - it gets frustrating.

Also, in the very same lake in Echovald there is Grotto Fish and Lutgardis Fish, so the choice isn't as obvious as one might think. Imagine attempting to get the kitten thing again and again thinking you did something wrong, so you might as well try the other options even if you are told otherwise.

I don't know if you read the description in the collection it specifically says lakefish and some holes are labeled lakefish. It even tells you can only catch them during the day. It's not a mysterious process it's just reading what's there in game.

[Freya.9075]

3 hours ago, EpicName.4523 said:

If you have already started the collection and rely just on RNG fishing to complete it - it gets frustrating.

Also, in the very same lake in Echovald there is Grotto Fish and Lutgardis Fish, so the choice isn't as obvious as one might think. Imagine attempting to get the kitten thing again and again thinking you did something wrong, so you might as well try the other options even if you are told otherwise.

Well yes, in the same area there are grotto fish as well. but those are inside the grottos and are named as such. While I can understand the frustration with the RNG drops of the fishes (I used hours getting the amber trout myself) the labeling of the fishing holes are pretty clear. 

[AgentMoore.9453]

8 hours ago, EpicName.4523 said:

I have no control over this process, no way to speed it up, skip it or do anything, but pray.

Just to start, I'll say I understand your frustration. I like fishing (despite its flaws), but you're right that it's not something everyone's going to enjoy or engage with in the long run. That said, I think this requirement is perfectly in line with the things that have been required in the past for spec weapons.

Remember HoT and those dumb adventures you had to play to get an item to progress your weapon collection? Didn't like those very much, but I figured them out once and then I was done. In your case, fishing is EoD's version of a dumb adventure that you have to figure out once and then be done with.

With fishing, you read the instructions on each fish which tell you where to go, when, and what gear to use. It's not much different from a 'go kill these mobs for a while until they drop this thing you need' requirement except that with fishing you can directly speed up the process by reading the tips for each fish, following their instructions, and getting them to bite your line faster by leveling the associated masteries (even if you don't intend to use them long-term).

Catching a fish for your spec collection should not be taking you hours, and if it is, I would absolutely recommend you ask a buddy for help if only just so you can get it out of the way as quickly as possible. Exotic fish (orange tier) do seem to be behaving incorrectly with the fishing power stat, but not to the impossible degree suggested in your first post.

Also, just in case you accidentally discover along the way that fishing's not too terrible, there's a vendor in Arborstone who asks for a yellow-rarity fish each day in exchange for a piece of Ambergris which can then be sold for ~2g. Once you understand the basics of fishing, it becomes very easy and quick to get the fish you need and turn it in for a bit of extra cash, as you can stop to fish along the way to pursuing other goals on a map. I wish you luck in completing your collections.

[Khisanth.2948]

3 hours ago, AgentMoore.9453 said:

getting them to bite your line faster by leveling the associated masteries (even if you don't intend to use them long-term).

Pretty sure that is a lie ... there isn't even any sort of consistency in "bite time" from fish to fish at the same fishing node on the same character.

It's random bite time with random difficulty(how much it bounces back and forth) for a random fish.

4 hours ago, AgentMoore.9453 said:

Catching a fish for your spec collection should not be taking you hours, and if it is, I would absolutely recommend you ask a buddy for help if only just so you can get it out of the way as quickly as possible. Exotic fish (orange tier) do seem to be behaving incorrectly with the fishing power stat, but not to the impossible degree suggested in your first post.

It is RNG so of course it could take hours. Took me around two hours to get the necro fish. Then minutes later I got a second one. Moved over to a different node type for the thief fish. Got 3 of those first couple of nodes.

Same thing happened with the HoT weapon collections. Same thing happened with precursor collections. That is just an inherent problem with the RNG drops.

 

[AgentMoore.9453]

2 minutes ago, Khisanth.2948 said:

Pretty sure that is a lie

It's not. There are brackets of fishing power in which certain rarities of fish begin to appear more or less frequently, and leveling your masteries allows you to reach these brackets faster. This has the additional benefit of making the fishing itself a tad easier, as fishing holes each have a recommended fishing power which, when matched or exceeded, affects the ease of catching stuff in that particular location. So, increased chances of getting the spawn you want and faster/easier catching when you do hook the thing you need.

Faster/easier does not mean guaranteed, but it is different than the claim that nothing you do will impact the speed or efficiency of your fishing experience.

8 minutes ago, Khisanth.2948 said:

It is RNG so of course it could take hours.

Note that I said 'should not' and not 'can't'. Obviously catching specific fish, especially alone, can take a long time if you have no idea how fishing works, if you use the wrong bait, if your masteries aren't leveled, or if you go fishing for something in the wrong place or at the wrong time. By that logic, catching a fish could take years if you didn't purchase EoD. The process should not take hours, and things like bringing a buddy along to help you rack up Fishing Party stacks more quickly can only help reduce the time this activity will take.

Because RNG is random, it's of course possible that some poor cursed soul might encounter RNG so monstrously bad that even with all the right gear and timing they still come away empty-handed after hours, but from what I've seen from people who have been fishing and tracking their experiences, this is not usually the case. Exotic fish do exhibit some strange behavior with regard to fishing power, but not to the degree mentioned in the first post. That honor goes to dusk/dawn, saltwater, and world class fish who are pretty universally regarded as the bane of the fishing system.

[notebene.3190]

I guess I have the same feeling about wanting to complete an interesting story I started in Arborstone only to find out I have to gather some lights in a place in DE that is only open after a successful meta. Not sure what that had to do with the story.

I’m starting to wonder if they shouldn’t switch to a model where you pick from a bag of things to do (like dailies) to earn points and then you spend the points on the achievements you want. Then you could choose to earn points for your weapon doing super 10 man extreme something to complete your achievement, and I can deliver 3 boxes, fish and complete a heart to earn my point to spend in whatever achievement I want.

[Ledi.9742]

sometimes getting stuff you want in game might require doing things you dont wanna do.

[Mungo Zen.9364]

41 minutes ago, AgentMoore.9453 said:

It's not. There are brackets of fishing power in which certain rarities of fish begin to appear more or less frequently, and leveling your masteries allows you to reach these brackets faster. This has the additional benefit of making the fishing itself a tad easier, as fishing holes each have a recommended fishing power which, when matched or exceeded, affects the ease of catching stuff in that particular location. So, increased chances of getting the spawn you want and faster/easier catching when you do hook the thing you need.

Faster/easier does not mean guaranteed, but it is different than the claim that nothing you do will impact the speed or efficiency of your fishing experience.

Note that I said 'should not' and not 'can't'. Obviously catching specific fish, especially alone, can take a long time if you have no idea how fishing works, if you use the wrong bait, if your masteries aren't leveled, or if you go fishing for something in the wrong place or at the wrong time. By that logic, catching a fish could take years if you didn't purchase EoD. The process should not take hours, and things like bringing a buddy along to help you rack up Fishing Party stacks more quickly can only help reduce the time this activity will take.

Because RNG is random, it's of course possible that some poor cursed soul might encounter RNG so monstrously bad that even with all the right gear and timing they still come away empty-handed after hours, but from what I've seen from people who have been fishing and tracking their experiences, this is not usually the case. Exotic fish do exhibit some strange behavior with regard to fishing power, but not to the degree mentioned in the first post. That honor goes to dusk/dawn, saltwater, and world class fish who are pretty universally regarded as the bane of the fishing system.

Where can we find information on the brackets for fishing or, what bracket a specific fish will fall into?  Using the wiki fish list I can see that, in this case, the Amber Trout needs a 250 fishing skill. What are the brackets where it will.become easier to fish up?  450? 650?

At what point does fishing power balance to the players favor to reduce RNG to an acceptable level?  How can this be confirmed or proven to work?

[AgentMoore.9453]

9 minutes ago, Mungo Zen.9364 said:

Where can we find information on the brackets for fishing

Players are still accumulating data both here and on the GW2 subreddit, but here's a thread where someone recently offered their findings on improving your chances with exotic fish. Their experience seems to match up with what I'm reading elsewhere and experiencing when I fish, which is that bumping your fishing power too high can make it harder to get exotics to bite; This doesn't seem like intended behavior and therefore I'm hopeful it will be improved as this is one of the flaws of fishing I mentioned earlier. Making fishing work better sends benefits all the way down the chain up to and including the process of finishing out a spec weapon collection.

As for proving that different brackets of fishing power impact your yield, go fish - I mean that in the most literal sense. Engage in the activity and monitor your experience to see how different amounts of fishing power affect it. When the precise brackets are nailed down and posted somewhere, I'll be happy to forward them to you. Some people are really getting into the spreadsheet groove and it's honestly kinda impressive to watch.

43 minutes ago, notebene.3190 said:

I guess I have the same feeling about wanting to complete an interesting story I started in Arborstone only to find out I have to gather some lights in a place in DE that is only open after a successful meta.

Understandable, though if the meta in question had a more reasonable time investment, a more reliable success rate, and an appropriate player cap, I think the achievements you're referring to would be a lot less of a pain to complete and more in line with what we've had in the past. Providing alternate avenues to completing those achievements isn't a bad idea, but fixing the meta feels like the simpler of the two solutions.

[Mungo Zen.9364]

4 minutes ago, AgentMoore.9453 said:

Players are still accumulating data both here and on the GW2 subreddit, but here's a thread where someone recently offered their findings on improving your chances with exotic fish. Their experience seems to match up with what I'm reading elsewhere and experiencing when I fish, which is that bumping your fishing power too high can make it harder to get exotics to bite; This doesn't seem like intended behavior and therefore I'm hopeful it will be improved as this is one of the flaws of fishing I mentioned earlier. Making fishing work better sends benefits all the way down the chain up to and including the process of finishing out a spec weapon collection.

As for proving that different brackets of fishing power impact your yield, go fish - I mean that in the most literal sense. Engage in the activity and monitor your experience to see how different amounts of fishing power affect it. When the precise brackets are nailed down and posted somewhere, I'll be happy to forward them to you. Some people are really getting into the spreadsheet groove and it's honestly kinda impressive to watch.

Understandable, though if the meta in question had a more reasonable time investment, a more reliable success rate, and an appropriate player cap, I think the achievements you're referring to would be a lot less of a pain to complete and more in line with what we've had in the past. Providing alternate avenues to completing those achievements isn't a bad idea, but fixing the meta feels like the simpler of the two solutions.

Thanks, I had guessed that the issue of raising the fishing power too high to catch some fish might be a thing based upon the way you worded your earlier post.  I appreciate you sharing your insight and link. 
 

I’ve generally avoided fishing as there is nothing I need from it and I don’t find it enjoyable by any means.  However there will come a time when I will grind it out for AP and I’d rather be doing something with notorious RNG issues as efficiently as possible. I’ll leave it for the spreadsheet crew to do the heavy lifting and maybe some tweaks from Anet before I worry about my own fishing experiences. 

[Kaliwenda.3428]

I was really frustrated trying to get the fish for my Vindicator greatsword, I was fishing at the right kind of spot with the proper fishing power, and just not getting it after trying a few times over different days.

I switched characters to do some other achievements and ended up unlocking a PoI that also had grotto fish and it only took a few casts there to get it.  I don't know if it was by design that you needed to find that particular spot first, or just RNG.

PS It was Saint Anjeka's Shrine, unlocked by doing the Cryptseeker achievement.

Edited April 17, 2022 by Kaliwenda.3428