Celestial Harbinger

[Sahne.6950]

This spec with Celestial is bonkers! Change my mind.

[Hotride.2187]

Well what can I tell you. Necro used to be some work to kill on my war but it was always a kill 1v1 (unless I got melted due to playing bad ofc), my one good matchup. Now it isnt.

Not only that but the cele harbringer can keep up with me when I'm running. You got small guilds running at least one already, everyone lagging behind but the cele harb is keeping up with me. Normally I turn around and kill players 1v1 when the rest lag, but harbringer is too mobile and bursts too often (with serious dmg despite cele). It cant kill me while chasing but that amount of mobility on a basically ranged reaper... Not cool.

I stopped roaming mainly because of it. I'm already sick of fighting cele anyway and the garbage just gets worse over time.

Had 2 enemy players on desert border just last week on spawn camp, cele harbringer and minstrel support core guard. Took like 5 players from my world to chase them off. Not the best of roamers but cmon. If it was a cele scrapper instead of guard they wouldve won 2v5 I'm fairly sure...

Edited April 20, 2022 by Hotride.2187

[SoftFootpaws.9134]

Here we go with players blaming stats for the spec again. IF it was from the Celestial gear than Harbinger wouldn't be overperforming in PvP (which it is), where those stats aren't available.

 

Gear means very little in this game compared to your build.

Edited April 20, 2022 by Hannelore.8153

[Sahne.6950]

3 minutes ago, Hannelore.8153 said:

Here we go with players blaming stats for the spec again. IF it was from the Celestial gear than Harbinger wouldn't be overperforming in PvP (which it is), where those stats aren't available.

no one said its solely because of celestial. That is just your way of interpreting it. What i was saying is that Harbinger with celestial is bonkers, which it is! That is not because of celestial, neither is this a "nerf celestial thread". It is a nerf Harbinger Thread.

 

Edited April 20, 2022 by Sahne.6950

[bluberblasen.9684]

28 minutes ago, Sahne.6950 said:

This spec with Celestial is bonkers! Change my mind.

It's not bonkers

It's <only> op like kitten but when you read this forum people here think it's Okey or <balanced> so it will never nerfed to death.

 

Harbinger and specter need big nerfs in wvw.

Harbinger elite needs 240 cooldown and reduce damage and buffs by ~90%

[Sahne.6950]

6 minutes ago, bluberblasen.9684 said:

It's not bonkers

It's <only> op like kitten but when you read this forum people here think it's Okey or <balanced> so it will never nerfed to death.

 

Harbinger and specter need big nerfs in wvw.

Harbinger elite needs 240 cooldown and reduce damage and buffs by ~90%

imo they should limit the Sources of stability, or make the durations shorter. Necros biggest counter used to be CC... welll... NOT ANYMORE! WEll.. people will say it still is... and that might actually be true. But if Harbingers biggest weakness is CC and you still have significantly more Stability then most older specs... there miight be something off with the balancing.

Alot of the specs have brought a inflation of Stability and Quickness.

Edited April 20, 2022 by Sahne.6950

[Hotride.2187]

18 minutes ago, Hannelore.8153 said:

Here we go with players blaming stats for the spec again.

Here we go defending cele again. I'll fight a "glass" harb any day.

[Skada.1362]

Anyone defending Celestial in WvW are afraid their overpowered training wheels will get taken away from them. It turns OP builds into extremely OP builds.

[Yellow Rainbow.6142]

delete stealth first.

[Zero.3871]

11 hours ago, Hotride.2187 said:

Well what can I tell you. Necro used to be some work to kill on my war but it was always a kill 1v1 (unless I got melted due to playing bad ofc), my one good matchup. Now it isnt.

Not only that but the cele harbringer can keep up with me when I'm running. You got small guilds running at least one already, everyone lagging behind but the cele harb is keeping up with me. Normally I turn around and kill players 1v1 when the rest lag, but harbringer is too mobile and bursts too often (with serious dmg despite cele). It cant kill me while chasing but that amount of mobility on a basically ranged reaper... Not cool.

I stopped roaming mainly because of it. I'm already sick of fighting cele anyway and the garbage just gets worse over time.

Had 2 enemy players on desert border just last week on spawn camp, cele harbringer and minstrel support core guard. Took like 5 players from my world to chase them off. Not the best of roamers but cmon. If it was a cele scrapper instead of guard they wouldve won 2v5 I'm fairly sure...

let everything else aside. i am just curious but why do people like you always think harbinger is very mobile? i already proofed in another thread it is EVEN fast like a reaper, and reaper is slow af. so can you plz explain how harbinger is faster then a reaper? maybe you know more then me...

 

[Yellow Rainbow.6142]

10 hours ago, Skada.1362 said:

Anyone defending Celestial in WvW are afraid their overpowered training wheels will get taken away from them. It turns OP builds into extremely OP builds.

only people complain about celestial run 1 shot cheese build with stealth. I don't zerg. I roam and stealth on deadeye have no counter.

Edited April 20, 2022 by Yellow Rainbow.6142

[Za Shaloc.3908]

24 minutes ago, Zero.3871 said:

let everything else aside. i am just curious but why do people like you always think harbinger is very mobile? i already proofed in another thread it is EVEN fast like a reaper, and reaper is slow af. so can you plz explain how harbinger is faster then a reaper? maybe you know more then me...

 

 

I think it can be perceived this way due to two reasons:

1. You can use your mobility skills consecutively to chase someone or disengage. It gives the illusion that it is "faster" because it technically has access to higher burst mobility.

2. It is ranged and with perma-quickness, the autos are very oppressive and will continue to melt you if you try to run away. It doesn't have to be in melee like Reaper so is generally harder to kite.

 

Not trying to advocate for nerfs because I have basically been playing one build since EoD so I lack a perspective of how classes/builds other than my own handle Harb, but just trying to explain why it is perceived how it is. 

[Swagger.1459]

If people are having a tough time with a couple seconds worth of condi or decent boons, on top of already nerfs down numbers from the big patch a long while ago, y’all got bigger problems. 

Running cele isn’t even efficient on the majority of builds, there are far better and more effective gear combinations. 

 

Also, don’t forget to take into account that the player who smashed ya just might be better, and no amount of nerfs will help you. 

[Dr Meta.3158]

13 hours ago, Hotride.2187 said:

Well what can I tell you. Necro used to be some work to kill on my war but it was always a kill 1v1 (unless I got melted due to playing bad ofc), my one good matchup. Now it isnt.

Not only that but the cele harbringer can keep up with me when I'm running. You got small guilds running at least one already, everyone lagging behind but the cele harb is keeping up with me. Normally I turn around and kill players 1v1 when the rest lag, but harbringer is too mobile and bursts too often (with serious dmg despite cele). It cant kill me while chasing but that amount of mobility on a basically ranged reaper... Not cool.

I stopped roaming mainly because of it. I'm already sick of fighting cele anyway and the garbage just gets worse over time.

Had 2 enemy players on desert border just last week on spawn camp, cele harbringer and minstrel support core guard. Took like 5 players from my world to chase them off. Not the best of roamers but cmon. If it was a cele scrapper instead of guard they wouldve won 2v5 I'm fairly sure...

This person just said they used to win fights against necros undefeated and now they one necro class is starting to beat them, things are now bad and need to be changed so that they can go back to winning uncontested.

Even worse. This person wants to be able to win uncontested AND outspeed every other class. 

Its as if I'm reading the post of a thief main.

[jpsssss.7530]

1 hour ago, Metaologist.2487 said:

 

Its as if I'm reading the post of a thief main.

Man the theif mains in my guild whine about sustain like they aren’t abusing how easy it is to stack stealth and/or OOC before the opponent as a deadeye…

[Norseman.4280]

Compared to the dual health bar bunker condi and fear you into oblivion necro's, Harbs are so easy to kill. CC is obvious. And they are squishy as heck. 
Na, there are several other more OP class/build combo's out there. 

 

But don't worry, they will nerf Harb. Then come for your class next lol.

[DanAlcedo.3281]

18 hours ago, Hannelore.8153 said:

Gear means very little in this game compared to your build.

OK. I'm gonna run Viper on my Support Tempest in Wvw. 

I mean, it effects the outcome " very little" right? 

 

Anyway, Cele is the grand scheme of things isn't OP because almost no build can really make us of it but all kitten gets loose when it works. 

 

[Blood Red Arachnid.2493]

Not gonna lie, these Harbingers are giving me quite the trouble right now.  They're the only condi build that can muscle through my cleanse spam, and it seems like no matter how hard I hit them they just do not die.  

[Hotride.2187]

7 hours ago, Metaologist.2487 said:

Its as if I'm reading the post of a thief main.

I play spb in competitive.

Quote

This person just said they used to win fights against necros undefeated and now they one necro class is starting to beat them, things are now bad and need to be changed so that they can go back to winning uncontested.

Things have been bad for a while, this was just the last straw.

I also like how you ignored "my one good matchup". I get shutdown by half the roaming builds unless I play better, at least my build could shutdown necros.

Edited April 21, 2022 by Hotride.2187

[Hotride.2187]

12 hours ago, Yellow Rainbow.6142 said:

only people complain about celestial run 1 shot cheese build with stealth. I don't zerg. I roam and stealth on deadeye have no counter.

Nearly every duelist I've talked to complains about cele. None of them run a "one shot cheese build". Also DE has counters (that dont just outsustain it).

12 hours ago, Zero.3871 said:

let everything else aside. i am just curious but why do people like you always think harbinger is very mobile? i already proofed in another thread it is EVEN fast like a reaper, and reaper is slow af. so can you plz explain how harbinger is faster then a reaper? maybe you know more then me...

I've read your post, I cant tell you how they consistently keep up with me. I've never been chased by reapers to this extent. Or maybe its as the person who quoted you commented, the ranged dmg makes the difference (imagine that).

Edited April 21, 2022 by Hotride.2187

[Melian.5368]

I roam with every class and right now I can say that I can only defeat celestial harbinger with celestial virtuoso, which is more disgusting in my opinion. Celestial virtuoso is the real op. 

[Zero.3871]

3 hours ago, Hotride.2187 said:

Nearly every duelist I've talked to complains about cele. None of them run a "one shot cheese build". Also DE has counters (that dont just outsustain it).

I've read your post, I cant tell you how they consistently keep up with me. I've never been chased by reapers to this extent. Or maybe its as the person who quoted you commented, the ranged dmg makes the difference (imagine that).

i cant and i wont deny your personal experience. but harbinger cant chase many specs. atleast everything that has more mobility like thief, ranger,... or longer stealth skills like engi, mesmer, ... can easily disengage vs. harbinger. i also think problem with harbinger is not the mobility, but whatever. at some point anet will nerfs thinks. so lets see how it goes.

[Sahne.6950]

I have not been able to beat ANY celestialharbinger consistently. I have won a few duells here and there on my Cele-Ventari-Renegade, but that is only because i had projectilehate up all the time. 

Everything else just gets melted.

[Kontrolle.3514]

On 4/20/2022 at 11:43 AM, Skada.1362 said:

Anyone defending Celestial in WvW are afraid their overpowered training wheels will get taken away from them. It turns OP builds into extremely OP builds.

 

every class can use cele but thiefs and warriors can go full berserk without loosing thier sustain.

So they have first to be smiter booned. Stealth needs to be deleted. All Classes should have the same hp. 

Or nerf beserk stats because thief and warrior can use them well while ele or guard cant.

[Kontrolle.3514]

6 hours ago, Hotride.2187 said:

Nearly every duelist I've talked to complains about cele. None of them run a "one shot cheese build". Also DE has counters (that dont just outsustain it).

 

no thief has no counter, not every class can reveal. Every spec i play for reoaming has to be designed with thiefs in mind. No other class dictates my traits and gear like thiefs do.

so we need to nerf beserk stats because thiefs and warriors can play them and still be tanky/slippery