Celestial Harbinger

[Zyreva.1078]

1 hour ago, Gotejjeken.1267 said:

 

Wat.  You could be playing against noobs for all we know.

Everyone plays against noobs in WvW. Doesn't matter.

[Sahne.6950]

16 hours ago, Swagger.1459 said:

Say what? 

 

Title- "Celestial Harbinger"

 

OP- "This spec with Celestial is bonkers! Change my mind."

 

Now- "i never blame the gear", but "celestial" 2x

 

New complaint not located in OP- Harbinger "stability" and not "celestial". 

 

So what is it? You don't win all the time vs a Harbinger, so now you gotta complain? Did you oncce think to post in the Necro section and ask for advice on how to fight a Harbinger? My guess is probably not... So instead of asking for advice from more experienced players, you make a thread implying that "celestial" needs some nerf, but now you are ok with the gear and it's "stability" being an issue.

 

And finally, wvw is not your personal duel zone, and your duel results are meaningless inside of a mode primarily designed for large group combat to occur. You should take advantage of spvp.  

The true problem with Harbinger originates from alot of factors. Most notably it is that they are having a wagonload of stability compared to older specs. Celestial further enhances this by having the same Boonduration as for example ministrels.

I never said that Celestial needs some nerfs.    I said that Celeharbinger is bonkers. Thats it xD everything else... you just implied.

This thread is not about Celestila being overpowered... which.... arguably it is.... but thats not the main point here.

This thread is about Harbinger completly dominating Smallscale in WvW. If you are not Running Celeharbinger right now.... are you even roaming?

i am sorry but i am sicc of hearing this: WvW is not balanced for smallscale! you should check out pvp. People that say this are the reason that roaming is on a decline since... forever kinda.

The balancing team can simply NOT ignore smallscale. There is people that are playing on offhours because they have work, There is people that are on empty servers, where you can be happy to have a tag for 2 hours of the day..... and what about the other 22 hours?

People have to point out things that are overperforming. And here i am saying that Celestial Harbinger 100% needs some tweaking, because it is outperforming basicly anything else right now.

and now listen closely!!! they should NOT nerf the stats that a profession is using (celestial) they should tweak the profession!

Edited April 22, 2022 by Sahne.6950

[Sahne.6950]

17 hours ago, Swagger.1459 said:

he difference in the old cele vs the new cele is minor. Boons and such were nerfed way down, and the 40% expertise add a minor duration to condis and the concentration adds a couple seconds to the important boons. Nothing to really kitten over and there are way better gear choices for builds. 

MY EYYESS!!! WHAT AM I READING!? 🤢 Boons were nerfed way down.... are we playing the same game? what are you talking about? am i missing something?

YEAH! just adding 40% more boons and 40% more Condiduration on a already wellperforming Statcombination is no biggie...  Found the Cele enjoyer.

This 40% Boonduration is INSANE for Celestial, because it allows alot of builds to sit on 25 might. Which is necesarry for Cele to really perform. adds a minor 😂😂😂 condiduration.. and a little more boons... BRUH! its the same boonduration as going full minstrels. Do you not see that Celestial is without a doubt the most ridicilous thing since sliced bread?

i didnt want this to be about cele... but you got me fuming for real xD

Nothing to really kitten over and there are way better gear choices for builds. 

okey then please tell me what is better then cele to use on a Harbinger? What is BIS for Weaver? Catalyst? Renegade? Mesmer? heck even Boonbeast is going Cele right now... What is best on spectre? ever met a CelestialFirebrand? they are insane! Are you not seeing that a majority of professions and builds have suddenly started to play Cele? I wonder why!

Cele should not be nerfed because it enables alot of professions to see play right now, but you seriously have to stop pretending that Cele is not the best statcombination in WvW BY A MILE.

 

Edited April 22, 2022 by Sahne.6950

[Hotride.2187]

29 minutes ago, Sahne.6950 said:

and now listen closely!!! they should NOT nerf the stats that a profession is using (celestial) they should tweak the profession!

I kinda doubt the devs can pull this off. Likely they will wreck the professions in the process.

But if they can do that (basically for every profession other than war, which at least so far sees almost no cele roamers)... sure why not. Though again I think they'll just mangle the profession in the process and make its other builds even less viable.

But for harbringer they can probably tweak it. It might get useless on non-cele though (I've got a necro duel buddy and power harb is glassy but fine, not OP and not bad, just fine... but after tweaks?).

But hey if every1 wants to play the sustain staring contents, I'll just do something else. I already don't duel cele aside from ele (cause what is the ele gonna play really... and ele in spvp doesnt feel that different).

[Sahne.6950]

24 minutes ago, Hotride.2187 said:

I kinda doubt the devs can pull this off. Likely they will wreck the professions in the process.

But if they can do that (basically for every profession other than war, which at least so far sees almost no cele roamers)... sure why not. Though again I think they'll just mangle the profession in the process and make its other builds even less viable.

But for harbringer they can probably tweak it. It might get useless on non-cele though (I've got a necro duel buddy and power harb is glassy but fine, not OP and not bad, just fine... but after tweaks?).

But hey if every1 wants to play the sustain staring contents, I'll just do something else. I already don't duel cele aside from ele (cause what is the ele gonna play really... and ele in spvp doesnt feel that different).

Imo they should just do the same nerfs that the have already done to the powercoefficients , to the condicoefficients aswell. I never understood why they only nerfed powerharbinger....  Then they should shave down the Stabilityduration by roughly 30% and you are looking at a pretty balanced spec.

 

Edited April 22, 2022 by Sahne.6950

[Holl.3109]

Link:

its. bonkers.

 

 

[Swagger.1459]

4 hours ago, Sahne.6950 said:

The true problem with Harbinger originates from alot of factors. Most notably it is that they are having a wagonload of stability compared to older specs. Celestial further enhances this by having the same Boonduration as for example ministrels.

I never said that Celestial needs some nerfs.    I said that Celeharbinger is bonkers. Thats it xD everything else... you just implied.

This thread is not about Celestila being overpowered... which.... arguably it is.... but thats not the main point here.

This thread is about Harbinger completly dominating Smallscale in WvW. If you are not Running Celeharbinger right now.... are you even roaming?

i am sorry but i am sicc of hearing this: WvW is not balanced for smallscale! you should check out pvp. People that say this are the reason that roaming is on a decline since... forever kinda.

The balancing team can simply NOT ignore smallscale. There is people that are playing on offhours because they have work, There is people that are on empty servers, where you can be happy to have a tag for 2 hours of the day..... and what about the other 22 hours?

People have to point out things that are overperforming. And here i am saying that Celestial Harbinger 100% needs some tweaking, because it is outperforming basicly anything else right now.

and now listen closely!!! they should NOT nerf the stats that a profession is using (celestial) they should tweak the profession!

Your complaints are all over, I don’t even think you fully know what you are complaining about in this thread.
 

You fought a harbinger and lost, then posted on the forums implying celestial needs a nerf. You didn’t even bother to ask in the Necro section for help. 
 

WvW is not balanced for small scale, especially not for your duels. The devs made an entire mode for small scale and it’s called SPvP. Did you not know that SPvP existed? 
 

Overperforming? Nah, some are just less experienced and complain about everything that they cannot beat 100% of the time. 

[Hotride.2187]

19 minutes ago, Swagger.1459 said:

Overperforming? Nah, some are just less experienced and complain about everything that they cannot beat 100% of the time. 

One of the best necro roamers just said its OP. And one of the best FA eles just said cele is OP. But I'm sure you know better on ranger.

ItS NOt bALanCeD foR dUeLS oR smALl sCAle

gO plAY sPVp

In my experience its the duelists that have the most experience and practice, and are the best solo roamers. Most that I've dueled come from spvp cause spvp is in a sad state too. The rest are just bad to average gankers, with some small exceptions of skilled but toxic waste (and even they sometimes act like human beings if they see you are good).

Edited April 22, 2022 by Hotride.2187

[Swagger.1459]

3 hours ago, Sahne.6950 said:

MY EYYESS!!! WHAT AM I READING!? 🤢 Boons were nerfed way down.... are we playing the same game? what are you talking about? am i missing something?

YEAH! just adding 40% more boons and 40% more Condiduration on a already wellperforming Statcombination is no biggie...  Found the Cele enjoyer.

This 40% Boonduration is INSANE for Celestial, because it allows alot of builds to sit on 25 might. Which is necesarry for Cele to really perform. adds a minor 😂😂😂 condiduration.. and a little more boons... BRUH! its the same boonduration as going full minstrels. Do you not see that Celestial is without a doubt the most ridicilous thing since sliced bread?

i didnt want this to be about cele... but you got me fuming for real xD

Nothing to really kitten over and there are way better gear choices for builds. 

okey then please tell me what is better then cele to use on a Harbinger? What is BIS for Weaver? Catalyst? Renegade? Mesmer? heck even Boonbeast is going Cele right now... What is best on spectre? ever met a CelestialFirebrand? they are insane! Are you not seeing that a majority of professions and builds have suddenly started to play Cele? I wonder why!

Cele should not be nerfed because it enables alot of professions to see play right now, but you seriously have to stop pretending that Cele is not the best statcombination in WvW BY A MILE.

 

Are you new to GW2? 

 

 

 

 

“In WvW… SB with Full Celestial plus Traveler Runes (bc I’m not taking them out just to make a post or bothering to load up the leggy gear and select cele stats for each one)

Quickening Zephyr

-Quickness 6 1/2s

-Superspeed 4s

-Fury 6 1/2s

 

Protect Me

-Protection 6 1/2s

-Regen 16s

-Swiftness 16s

 

No gear at all… That means 0 gear…

Quickening Zephyr

-Quickness 4s

-Superspeed 4s

-Fury 4s

 

Protect Me

-Protection 4s

-Regen 10s

-Swiftness 10s

 

… So the base cele gear essentially adds 2s on the important boons in wvw. Like you really need the devs to change the base gear for the entire mode because someone having a couple extra seconds on some boons makes it impossible to defeat in a duel?”

 

I can run better gear sets than cele and still get that same 40% boon duration… so we need to nerf that too because players can handle a couple seconds? And you don’t even need cele to stack might, there are plenty of other ways to do it.

 

WvW isn’t your personal duel zone and the devs aren’t going to kowtow to less experienced players duel complaints in a mode designed for mass combat to occur. I would suggest participating in SPvP to gain more experience and knowledge. 

[Swagger.1459]

4 minutes ago, Hotride.2187 said:

One of the best necro roamers just said its OP. And one of the best FA eles just said cele is OP. But I'm sure you know better on ranger.

ItS NOt bALanCeD foR dUeLS oR smALl sCAle

gO plAY sPVp

 

I don’t care who said what. Nor do I care about solo play complaints in a mode primarily designed for large scale combat to occur. 

 
That’s right, go play SPvP if you want small scale balance. 

[Swagger.1459]

Because most of you don’t understand the difference between wvw and spvp…

 

 

And what is Structured Player vs Player?

 

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Structured_PvP

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Arheundel.6451]

I strongly dislike necro gameplay....I hate the condition system in GW2...I don't care about celestial gear and you can remove it today....but what most I hate it's this constant whining about nerf this and remove that that this playerbase does on a constant basis.

 

[Swagger.1459]

90% of my time in wvw had been roaming, but at least I know the primary design intent of wvw. Hint, it’s not a duel zone. 
 

Seriously, take advantage of spvp, because wvw isn’t as forgiving and you can find the more “fair” fights you are looking for. 

[Arheundel.6451]

48 minutes ago, Sahne.6950 said:

first of all: i gotta love how you went on and tested the different times of Boons with and without Cele... THANK YOU!!! i know what 40% are! 😉 bigbraintime right there!

you dear sir need to understand that people are not running 24/7 in a zerg. Some people play offhours, some are on empty servers and some simply dont like it.

Completly denying that there is smallscale is the downfall of WvW as we love and know it. People like you are the reason roaming is dying. Thank you for insights to your opinions, but i highly disagree with basicly anything your are saying, especially the part where you are saying that 40% boonduration is completly irrelevant and that Celestial is fair and square. You are the type of guy that would have defended nadescrapper only because it is useless in a zerg.

also i am not speaking about 1v1/duells. i am speaking of roaming in general. And celestialharbinger is without a doubt dominating it right now.

I would suggest participating in SPvP to gain more experience and knowledge.    You sir seriously need to watch your mouth. I bet 200Gold that i am going to wipe the floor with you. it doesnt have to be duells. We can 2v2 3v3 4v4 we can even do a 5v5 in pvp! whatever you feel is your strongest! If i am that inexperienced it should be a piece of cake for you! Want the money? add me ingame  😘

 I seriously love it when people think that everyone in the forums that has a diffrent opinion has to be a silverplebxD

Thanks for your opinion. NEXT.

Why there should be balance in smallscale while we have access to pve gear?  The statement "go to PvP for small scale so balanced gameplay" completely adhere to your ideology. WvW is Realm VS Realm...it's not there to let people live their duellist fantasies. The main attraction of WvW is the high build customisation and people love it, we play for the fun of it, if you and people who think the same, want to have limited options..then go PvP and buy custom arena token, it's that simple.

It really doesn't matter what gear you have...when 10+ people run you over so.....nobody forces you to fight 1v1 anything in WvW, when I get home from work...I can link screenshots of some salty thief from HUNT, who I oneshot using a LB ranger...he was a SA thief wannabe hero, who thought the world is his oyster..well I simply ran off and forced him in facing another poor fella...while I swapped build and oneshot him from existence, it was fun to read his page long insults but the in the end...I win because I play the gamemode and I don't care about your personal rules for duelling.

Anybody thinking differently..can go PvP and fight 1v1s all day long...personally..done that already, got the titles, the badge ..plat 2...blah blah blah.....nobody cares, I play for fun..and don't care about the feelings of all egomaniacs out there...it's a videogame kitten.

I am so tired of this "small scale balance" crowd, tired of the constant stream of insulting whispers...."too tanky....too much dmg.....run away dog...blah blah".

I suspect that many of you from the "small scale balance" crowd realistically refuse to go PvP because...you'd lose access to many stats/options allowed in WvW, I suspect your current 1v1 Godmode build would not be as Godlike in PvP and that's why you want to instead remove options from WvW so that only your Godmode build remains as such...please change my mind

[Hotride.2187]

15 minutes ago, Arheundel.6451 said:

I suspect that many of you from the "small scale balance" crowd realistically refuse to go PvP because...you'd lose access to many stats/options allowed in WvW, I suspect your current 1v1 Godmode build would not be as Godlike in PvP and that's why you want to instead remove options from WvW so that only your Godmode build remains as such...please change my mind

I play spb. My build is essentially the same. I rip fewer boons but there are also fewer boons to rip in spvp. Its really godmode build, please play it.

As for wanting balance when I roam... woah such high requests. I guess its too much to ask. Anyway enjoy the clown fiesta, its not like the devs care either way to fix their garbage.

[Arheundel.6451]

4 minutes ago, Hotride.2187 said:

I play spb. My build is essentially the same. I rip fewer boons but there are also fewer boons to rip in spvp. Its really godmode build, please play it.

As for wanting balance when I roam... woah such high requests. I guess its too much to ask. Anyway enjoy the clown fiesta, its not like the devs care either way to fix their garbage.

Yeah, I play warrior as 4th main, one of my favourite builds is this

But I don't like celestial stats and I use a custom, more tanky set up, but I still have other build set ups on warrior, I have a tanky Berseker roaming build that can tank few nabs and don't die nearly as easily as many "war mains" claim

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?PKAEsF4pOp2uB-w

Something like this, can't remember the rest, it works very well for me and you are free to hate it..but killed many wannabe wars with it so.....I don't claim though to be a pro war..there is that too.

So..please explain what you mean by...wanting balance, some you win..and some you lose...if I lose ..I respawn , change and go again, if I keep losing..I leave or ask help...I don't live by my ego

[Zyreva.1078]

sPvP and smallscale in WvW are completely different and one can not replace the other. And if you don't care about small scale in WvW, then what are you doing in a thread about exactly that? It's like if i would go to some topic about raids to spread some nonsense, even tho i've never set foot into a raid.

It does not matter if you think WvW should only be about zergs. Because it is not. Small scale is a thing, whether you like it or not. And therefore cele in it's current form is a balance issue and as such it should be adressed.

[Hotride.2187]

29 minutes ago, Arheundel.6451 said:

Yeah, I play warrior as 4th main, one of my favourite builds is this

But I don't like celestial stats and I use a custom, more tanky set up

just lol

[KrHome.1920]

6 hours ago, Holl.3109 said:

Link:

its. bonkers.

Thanks for proving my point, even though your intention was the opposite.

These guys losing to harbinger are playing the game competitive for less than 20 hours.

Like I said: harbinger farms noobs, like any immob ranger, daredevil, deadeye, confusion mesmer, holosmith, burnguard, lich necro and so on does.

Edit: that plat mesmer at the end does not count as this is the worst plat memser I have ever seen, probably a zergling. The rest is either low ranks, team fights with poor focus of the opponents or righteous indignation saving you (both the latter are also proof that your opponents suck).

Edited April 22, 2022 by KrHome.1920

[Zero.3871]

8 hours ago, Holl.3109 said:

Link:

its. bonkers.

 

 

nice vid by hollts. big dmg numbers. but harbinger is designed to have big dmg numbers since this class SHOULD burst. the opposite question is: is the tradeoff for the burst dmg it got existent? means, is its defensive weak enough for that dmg as compensation?

imo defense of harb is good vs 1 enemy, and already really weak vs several targets, except, the opponents playing 1 support + 1 dmg dealer, cause the support cant pressure you.

if you have 2 dmg dealing classes vs you, they can easy burst you down on harb. so wouldnt it be better to discuss how harbinger can be fair in sustain? in 1v1 situations where harb is really trong and also in e.g. 5v5 scenarios where its sustain is getting weaker right now? how can we balance sustain?

[Za Shaloc.3908]

1 hour ago, Zero.3871 said:

nice vid by hollts. big dmg numbers. but harbinger is designed to have big dmg numbers since this class SHOULD burst. the opposite question is: is the tradeoff for the burst dmg it got existent? means, is its defensive weak enough for that dmg as compensation?

imo defense of harb is good vs 1 enemy, and already really weak vs several targets, except, the opponents playing 1 support + 1 dmg dealer, cause the support cant pressure you.

if you have 2 dmg dealing classes vs you, they can easy burst you down on harb. so wouldnt it be better to discuss how harbinger can be fair in sustain? in 1v1 situations where harb is really trong and also in e.g. 5v5 scenarios where its sustain is getting weaker right now? how can we balance sustain?

 

Although it does have surprisingly strong resustain via blight healing (and its healing power scaling), I genuinely think a lot of people are misplaying against Harb due to its UI health/shroudbar bug giving misleading information. We have been trained for years now to approach the class differently while it is in shroud due to it being an effectively extra healthbar. Now that extra padding doesn't exist, but the UI plays mindgames on players that it still does. I know I have to consciously remind myself of this while in combat, and I am certain that it is affecting other players as well. I consider both this bug and Specter shroud UI bug to be high priority on the "to be fixed" list, and I genuinely believe that fixing them would make approaching these matchups a lot more intuitive. Harbi's is at least easier to work around because there's a color difference between the two, but still...it needs to be fixed.

 

In terms of actual changes I think Harbinger needs, the number one in my eyes is a better tell for its elite elixir AoE (and arguably all other elixirs). I have seen this echoed frequently from people and I completely agree. The skill is insanely impactful with a mere 0.5s cast time, and 100% deserves an AoE indicator of where it is going to land. Beyond that and the shroud UI bug, I'd like to see where the spec lands as I think its oppressiveness is a bit overrated. When you fight a power Harbinger, its weaknesses/tradeoffs are INCREDIBLY apparent. You can argue that Harbi shouldn't be played as power, but they have 3 of 9 traits supporting this playstyle and I think that a few poorly aimed nerfs could really knock the e-spec as a whole into the realm of uselessness.

[ens.9854]

1 hour ago, Zero.3871 said:

imo defense of harb is good vs 1 enemy, and already really weak vs several targets, except, the opponents playing 1 support + 1 dmg dealer, cause the support cant pressure you.

The fact you are bringing up that harb struggles 1v2 is just adding to OPs argument. 1vX hasn't really been a thing (except vs newbs) since the global damage nerf.

[Zero.3871]

13 minutes ago, ens.9854 said:

The fact you are bringing up that harb struggles 1v2 is just adding to OPs argument. 1vX hasn't really been a thing (except vs newbs) since the global damage nerf.

i never talked about 1v2. i talkes about greater fights like 5v5 or 2v2. when 2 enemies can focus you with dmg harb sustain is low. when you fight 2v2 while a opponent is support. yu can weakness the 1 dmg dealer and having good sustain even in 2v2 fights. thats my point here.

[Grand Marshal.4098]

Just remove the dmg part of Harbinger elixirs. Simple. They don't need additional burst through their utilities when they are meant to super buff the necro for the "high risk" shroud. 

Why does a burst class require sustained dmg? That sure isn't the case with warrior's Berserker spec. 🤔

[Za Shaloc.3908]

5 minutes ago, Grand Marshal.4098 said:

Just remove the dmg part of Harbinger elixirs. Simple. They don't need additional burst through their utilities when they are meant to super buff the necro for the "high risk" shroud. 

Why does a burst class require sustained dmg? That sure isn't the case with warrior's Berserker spec. 🤔

 

Before they added that extra component, the elixirs were really boring, and aside from the elite, a bit weak. Personally I absolutely love the way they added the offensive aspect to them, both in terms of impact and flavor. I find it to be a great nod to Engi's elixir toss component, but "à la Necro," if you will. Not saying that the numbers are tuned perfectly though. Also I don't think comparing it to Berserker is the best approach, as in my eyes that whole elite spec redesign made it a horribly designed gimmick (from an outsider's perspective, at least).

Edited April 22, 2022 by Za Shaloc.3908