Celestial Harbinger

[Swagger.1459]

1 hour ago, Sahne.6950 said:

I have not been able to beat ANY celestialharbinger consistently. I have won a few duells here and there on my Cele-Ventari-Renegade, but that is only because i had projectilehate up all the time. 

Everything else just gets melted.

Most don’t care about your duel results, especially in wvw. 
 

And some advice… stop blaming the gear for a loss and look inward. Also, avoid implying things need a nerf just because other players beat you more consistently. Dev nerf won’t help you get better, that’s on you. 

[Hotride.2187]

18 minutes ago, Kontrolle.3514 said:

we need to nerf beserk stats because thiefs and warriors can play them and still be tanky/slippery

Dont worry cele is already replacing it. Thief and necro didnt get to use cele "effectively", with the new specs they can. And who plays war anyway. Though maybe some special person will invent a cele bladesworn build, you never know.

As for comparing war sustain on zerk (ignoring its crap dmg even on full glass stats) to cele sustain... just lol. Play war and let me know how far you get.

Thief runs marauder, on zerk it dies to random cleaves due to like 12k total hp. For thief not having counter... just lol again. DE is countered by LB SB, DD is countered by trapper guard.

But whatever, this topic is about cele stats making the supposedly glass cannon harb into a build with solid sustain, enough mobility and too much (ranged) damage. Go complain about stealth in the respective topics.

[Sahne.6950]

13 minutes ago, Kontrolle.3514 said:

 

every class can use cele but thiefs and warriors can go full berserk without loosing thier sustain.

So they have first to be smiter booned. Stealth needs to be deleted. All Classes should have the same hp. 

Or nerf beserk stats because thief and warrior can use them well while ele or guard cant.

Ahh YIS! Guardians can not use Berserker....  that alone tells me alot about how experienced you are in gw2 xDDD

Are you really complaining about warrior? have i just been teleported into a diffrent dimension?

 

we need to nerf beserk stats because thiefs and warriors can play them and still be tanky/slippery

 

wat? do you really want to nerf Berserkerstats... because thief has stealth... and warrior can just chain-charge away from most people? you are working for Anet balancing team are ya?

i have said this numerous times and i will say it again... 

if you are having problems fighting thiefs when you are roaming... you seriously need to step up your game. There is no way on earth a thief should be killing you in a openfield fight, if you are not a mesmer.   Heck just slap on Cele and you will never ever have a problem against any kind of thief again. If the thief managed to kill you in a fair fight.. this dude 100% was better than you.. and thats okay. accept that and move on.

Please for the love of it... play thief for a day and tell me you went on the most absurd killingspree and have not died once. You guys seriously need to multiclass to get a brighter picture... some of you have not touched a few classes and it shows.

 

[Sahne.6950]

4 minutes ago, Swagger.1459 said:

Most don’t care about your duel results, especially in wvw. 
 

And some advice… stop blaming the gear for a loss and look inward. Also, avoid implying things need a nerf just because other players beat you more consistently. Dev nerf won’t help you get better, that’s on you. 

i never blamed the gear... i am blaming Harbinger for having to much stability.

The counter to harbinger is CC... but if that is its biggest weakness.. why does it have significantly more stability than any older spec? that just doesnt make any sense at all.

Edited April 21, 2022 by Sahne.6950

[Zyreva.1078]

35 minutes ago, Kontrolle.3514 said:

 

every class can use cele but thiefs and warriors can go full berserk without loosing thier sustain.

So they have first to be smiter booned. Stealth needs to be deleted. All Classes should have the same hp. 

Or nerf beserk stats because thief and warrior can use them well while ele or guard cant.

A zerk thief has 12k hp and warrior is one of the weaker classes- if not the weakest even. No full zerk build comes close to cele sustain (but they can come close to zerk dmg) and any class can use cele and will outperform other builds with it in most situations.

Edited April 21, 2022 by UmbraNoctis.1907

[Hotride.2187]

29 minutes ago, Swagger.1459 said:

And some advice… stop blaming the gear for a loss and look inward. Also, avoid implying things need a nerf just because other players beat you more consistently. Dev nerf won’t help you get better, that’s on you. 

Nope. I've spent 100s of hours dueling in wvw, I know when someone is better than me and when someone is carried by their build.

Even on the first beta I already dueled a cele harb for 1-2 hours, the sustain was insane. The damage however was the usual cele build snoozefest dmg (even lower honestly). This is no longer the case (the sustain is lower too, to be fair, but still too high for the dmg).

I dunno what build you are running, from your posts maybe something that spams cleanses like there is no tomorrow? Or what do you play in general? Do you roam solo?

Edited April 21, 2022 by Hotride.2187

[Melian.5368]

15 minutes ago, Hotride.2187 said:

Nope. I've spent 100s of hours dueling in wvw, I know when someone is better than me and when someone is carried by their build.

Even on the first beta I already dueled a cele harb for 1-2 hours, the sustain was insane. The damage however was the usual cele build snoozefest dmg. This is no longer the case.

I dunno what build you are running, from your posts maybe something that spams cleanses like there is no tomorrow? Or what do you play in general? Do you roam solo?

I mean, harbinger sustain comes from its damage, if it can't damage it can't heal. So spam condis on it and go invul or block or put up some projectile blocker and you're good. Not every class is supposed to defeat every class, it's like a rock paper scissors scheme.

Edited April 21, 2022 by Melian.5368
typo

[Hotride.2187]

33 minutes ago, Melian.5368 said:

Not every class is supposed to defeat every class, it's like a rock paper scissors scheme.

So what beats the harb build? Cause war just got removed from the rock-paper-scissors game, it used to be on top of necro only.

Well maybe if I stretch my imagination spb is still on top of ele... I've not dueled good catalysts so I'm not 100% sure. Also there was this one cele tempest I couldnt beat some time ago, the build spammed boons faster than I could rip... The player explicitly told me they were testing out the counter (spb) to fix holes in their build.

Edited April 21, 2022 by Hotride.2187

[Zyreva.1078]

11 minutes ago, Melian.5368 said:

I mean, harbinger sustain comes from its damage, if it can't damage it can't heal. So spam condis on it and go invul or block or put up some projectile blocker and you're good. Not every class is supposed to defeat every class, it's like a rock paper scissors scheme.

Not really. Harbinger has a very strong healing skill, regen and blight, neither requires dealing damage. It also has great condi management, strong cc, the ability to pressure while kiting, possibly perma protection, weakness spam, projectile denial. Very hard to pressure unless outnumbering. And even then smart use of wurm and spectral walk can save the day.

[Swagger.1459]

49 minutes ago, Sahne.6950 said:

i never blamed the gear... i am blaming Harbinger for having to much stability.

The counter to harbinger is CC... but if that is its biggest weakness.. why does it have significantly more stability than any older spec? that just doesnt make any sense at all.

Say what? 

 

Title- "Celestial Harbinger"

 

OP- "This spec with Celestial is bonkers! Change my mind."

 

Now- "i never blame the gear", but "celestial" 2x

 

New complaint not located in OP- Harbinger "stability" and not "celestial". 

 

So what is it? You don't win all the time vs a Harbinger, so now you gotta complain? Did you oncce think to post in the Necro section and ask for advice on how to fight a Harbinger? My guess is probably not... So instead of asking for advice from more experienced players, you make a thread implying that "celestial" needs some nerf, but now you are ok with the gear and it's "stability" being an issue.

 

And finally, wvw is not your personal duel zone, and your duel results are meaningless inside of a mode primarily designed for large group combat to occur. You should take advantage of spvp.  

[Hotride.2187]

24 minutes ago, Swagger.1459 said:

And finally, wvw is not your personal duel zone, and your duel results are meaningless inside of a mode primarily designed for large group combat to occur. You should take advantage of spvp.  

Ah ok. So the answer is outnumber or change the mode to a supposedly balanced one. Never mind me asking for what you play.

I guess the devs should just leave the new specs as they are in wvw, none of them affect blob fights. And if they do, balance just that. Kinda how they have dropped the ball on underwater combat/balancing but have left underwater areas/content. Enjoy the roaming clown fiesta, if you even roam solo.

And ofc we stop discussing / complainig about the new builds, unless they affect the boonball. Got it.

Funny how every cele discussion ends with this. Or "you can min-max to break the build even more".

Edited April 21, 2022 by Hotride.2187

[Swagger.1459]

1 hour ago, Hotride.2187 said:

Nope. I've spent 100s of hours dueling in wvw, I know when someone is better than me and when someone is carried by their build.

Even on the first beta I already dueled a cele harb for 1-2 hours, the sustain was insane. The damage however was the usual cele build snoozefest dmg (even lower honestly). This is no longer the case (the sustain is lower too, to be fair, but still too high for the dmg).

I dunno what build you are running, from your posts maybe something that spams cleanses like there is no tomorrow? Or what do you play in general? Do you roam solo?

Umm, well, most of my wvw play time consisted of roaming on non-meta ranger builds. And come to think of it, I don't have any meta builds on and of my characters, because I enjoy quirky builds and experimenting for fun. 

 

The difference in the old cele vs the new cele is minor. Boons and such were nerfed way down, and the 40% expertise add a minor duration to condis and the concentration adds a couple seconds to the important boons. Nothing to really kitten over and there are way better gear choices for builds. 

 

The main problem here is that humans don't like losing and it's human nature to blame everything and everyone except themselves. Second, is that some think they are pvp gods, but can't handle losing. However, there are players who just work on getting better, not make all sorts of excuses. And coming from someone who was a competitive team pvp player for a very long time prior to the existence of GW2, there is a lot to be learned form losing, but some people can't handle it so that's why we get threads similar to these. 

Edited April 21, 2022 by Swagger.1459

[Swagger.1459]

4 minutes ago, Hotride.2187 said:

Ah ok. So the answer is outnumber or change the mode to a supposedly balanced one. Never mind me asking for what you play.

I guess the devs should just leave the new specs as they are in wvw, none of them affect blob fights. And if they do, balance just that. Kinda how they have dropped the ball on underwater combat/balancing but have left underwater areas/content. Enjoy the roaming clown fiesta, if you even roam solo.

And ofc we stop discussing / complainig about the new builds, unless they affect the boonball. Got it.

Funny how every cele discussion ends with this. Or "you can min-max to break the build even more".

If you want small scale balance, then stick to the mode called "structured player vs player". It's pretty simple. 

[Zyreva.1078]

26 minutes ago, Swagger.1459 said:

The main problem here is that humans don't like losing and it's human nature to blame everything and everyone except themselves. Second, is that some think they are pvp gods, but can't handle losing. However, there are players who just work on getting better, not make all sorts of excuses. And coming from someone who was a competitive team pvp player for a very long time prior to the existence of GW2, there is a lot to be learned form losing, but some people can't handle it so that's why we get threads similar to these. 

I play cele. I rarely lose (less than i should tbh). I think cele is op and should be nerfed. Your entire argument is invalid.

[Swagger.1459]

4 minutes ago, UmbraNoctis.1907 said:

I play cele. I rarely lose (less than i should tbh). I think cele is op and should be nerfed. Your entire argument is invalid.

You are just that good, so that invalidates your comments about my argument being invalid. 

[Zyreva.1078]

49 minutes ago, Swagger.1459 said:

You are just that good, so that invalidates your comments about my argument being invalid. 

No it doesn't. If anything it reinforces my point, because good players know what's op and what not.

[Grand Marshal.4098]

First things first, add proper animations and AoE circles to Shroud 5 and Elixirs. You can't see them coming in melee so enjoy always eating them in your face. Question, why do elixirs need an offensive part as well as a defensive part?

Please when warriors activate frenzy it deals 4.000 baseline dmg to the enemy targeted. When I clear with Shake it Off grant my enemy with all the conditions.

Zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz

What's to respect about this spec and this stat combo? Nothing. Back to playing my OP secret Berserker build.

[TrollingDemigod.3041]

12 minutes ago, Grand Marshal.4098 said:

First things first, add proper animations and AoE circles to Shroud 5 and Elixirs. You can't see them coming in melee so enjoy always eating them in your face. Question, why do elixirs need an offensive part as well as a defensive part?

Please when warriors activate frenzy it deals 4.000 baseline dmg to the enemy targeted. When I clear with Shake it Off grant my enemy with all the conditions.

Zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz

What's to respect about this spec and this stat combo? Nothing. Back to playing my OP secret Berserker build.

Give Frenzy a special self buff that increases outgoing damage by 10%. Give it like 10 stacks(1 removed per 1 successful outgoing hit) for 20 seconds and each stacks adds another 10% damage increase for total of 100% at your 10th hit.
Beside that, who could've though that Harbringer would be so busted in WvW...

[Arheundel.6451]

4 hours ago, Swagger.1459 said:

If you want small scale balance, then stick to the mode called "structured player vs player". It's pretty simple. 

GW2 players don't want balance....they want to win

[Gotejjeken.1267]

5 hours ago, UmbraNoctis.1907 said:

I play cele. I rarely lose (less than i should tbh). I think cele is op and should be nerfed. Your entire argument is invalid.

 

Wat.  You could be playing against noobs for all we know.

I see these complaints about harbinger (even in team chat now), but don't see the issue.  Maybe I haven't found the 'OP roamers' yet, but they seem way squishier than your core necro.  

As for Celestial, by nature it is going to be weaker than specializing in something.  Only time I found it somewhat useful was on a soulbeast build using dagger/ dagger and GS (talk about off-meta) because could get both condi and power.  

If raid forums can do it, so can WvW--we need some hard numbers of why Cele is OP not random bigfoot encounter testimonials.  

[KrHome.1920]

Haven't lost to any harbinger 1v1 yet (fought like 50 or so).

In smallscale they are my prime focus and instadie to any cc-lock-burst-combo (too bad wurm has a cast time and spectral walk only fools noobs).

Cele is actually the only attribute combination that saves this spec somehow in WvW.

I see a lot of players on my server die to harbingers in random encounters. So I know where the OP comes from. The truth is: these are always l2p issues.

Edited April 21, 2022 by KrHome.1920

[Za Shaloc.3908]

11 hours ago, Melian.5368 said:

I roam with every class and right now I can say that I can only defeat celestial harbinger with celestial virtuoso, which is more disgusting in my opinion. Celestial virtuoso is the real op. 

 

That is actually surprising to hear tbh. May I ask why? While I find them a nuisance in 1v1 encounters, I don't really consider them much of a threat beyond that if you dodge their F2 or don't spam into it if you eat it. Maybe I haven't really fought enough good ones. 

[Exzen.2976]

I genuinely can't believe people actually defend Celestial for smallscale/roaming/duelling. It is straight up overpowered and every single good player I talk to agrees. There is a good reason why celestial stats are so widespread in roaming and duelling builds right now. 

[Yellow Rainbow.6142]

16 minutes ago, Exzen.2976 said:

I genuinely can't believe people actually defend Celestial for smallscale/roaming/duelling. It is straight up overpowered and every single good player I talk to agrees. There is a good reason why celestial stats are so widespread in roaming and duelling builds right now. 

I am just wondering,, how do you define good player?

[Grand Marshal.4098]

4 minutes ago, Yellow Rainbow.6142 said:

I am just wondering,, how do you define good player?

I think exzen probs speaks with a couple skilled roamers. 😭