A REAL legendary armor

[Myror.7521]

Actually i would love to get a legendary amory npc unlocked after you just finish the "aurene story" i mean the dragon circle one. You actually would need to have all Story archievments to get that npc unlocked and need also the normal things to craft it at all. (Or lock it all around archievments). Something like this would made it still unique and not so ezy to get! And it actually was like this in gw1 too 😄

[Caitmonster.9036]

I'm sure if you had to complete every LW and story episode's meta achieve to get openworld armor they'd whine about that too. I can already hear the cries of "Migraine 2 hard! Pls nerf!". Lol

As someone who was/still is a casual openworld enjoyer (and a rper on the side), instead of just complaining that legendary armor didn't cater to my playstyle I kinda just... found a good guild and learned how to raid. I'm not a great raider, mediocre at best, but I'm not trying to be. I did the grind and got all 3 sets of legendary armor over several years of raiding, and it didn't kill me. Taking a break from the burnout but I'm considering a comeback once druid gets its rework and people want them in raids again so I can finish Coalescence. It's really not that hard if you put in the effort and find the right communities.

Now if they gave us an openworld legendary ring to finish out the pve trinket set (Ad infini, Prismatic regalia, aurora, vision, coalescence), that would be dope. Costs a gift of Exploration, Mag mastery, Desert Mastery, and Cantha Mastery to make or something. Oh! Maybe a "return to expansion" event where they have us replay HoT, PoF and EoD?

Edited April 26, 2022 by Caitmonster.9036

[Lévis.5489]

Try coming back after 5 years and wanting to get legendary armor. But all you see are people selling runs in the LFG tool  instead of  real teams. It is quite disheartening.  It makes you feel like raids are abandoned just like dungeons at this point.  Having legendary armor for other game modes such as  Fractals or Strikes would actually make sense. Heck, having a legendary armor collection linked to several future living stories episodes, (think Skyscale collection, but even on a higher scale) would  also make sense at this point.

[Sobx.1758]

1 hour ago, Lévis.5489 said:

Try coming back after 5 years and wanting to get legendary armor. But all you see are people selling runs in the LFG tool  instead of  real teams.

There are still "normal" training/no req/low req squads running this content though?

Edited April 26, 2022 by Sobx.1758

[Epsilon Indi.2031]

On 4/24/2022 at 3:03 AM, Erise.5614 said:

Mind if I ask your routine? Did you stay for the crystalized chests / use up all keys? Bought more with map currency? 

Did you do the Zinn riddles that you can do while waiting at rata?

Went through ~250 keys.  Averaged 2.5 eggs a day.  Saved my map currency because I needed those  god forsaken crystals for other gifts.

[Elden Arnaas.4870]

On 4/25/2022 at 3:58 PM, disco.9302 said:

On 4/23/2022 at 12:56 PM, Elden Arnaas.4870 said:

No.  Let's be really honest, there should be a PvE legendary armor path for more than just the small percentage of the player base who raid.

Expand  

Why don't you help by increasing the small percentage to a larger percentage rather than trying to push ideas that would entirely destroy raids?

If a making a non-raid path to PvE legendary armor would "entirely destroy raids", then that means that raids need to be re-worked.  If people are only playing  raids for that one reward, then there's something wrong with raids.(and to be honest, I don't think people only raid for the legendary armor)

But to answer your question, I wouldn't help to increase the percentage of raiders(by raiding) because I've raided in GW2 years ago, and I don't like it.

(Please click expand to see the whole quote)

Edited April 27, 2022 by Elden Arnaas.4870
formatting, clarification, typo

[disco.9302]

10 hours ago, Elden Arnaas.4870 said:

If a making a non-raid path to PvE legendary armor would "entirely destroy raids", then that means that raids need to be re-worked.  If people are only playing  raids for that one reward, then there's something wrong with raids.(and to be honest, I don't think people only raid for the legendary armor)

But to answer your question, I wouldn't help to increase the percentage of raiders(by raiding) because I've raided in GW2 years ago, and I don't like it.

(Please click expand to see the whole quote)

Legendary armour I would say is the main incentive for people to get into raids. What else do you get from there? skins/titles/chairs/some ascended gear. Most people value those way less and would not have tried raiding because the rewards are pretty poor on paper if the legendary gear wasn't also a goal.

Raiding becomes more fun after a few tries for the majority, I won't try to pretend that a new player will have the best time of their lives immediately upon entering their 1st wing.

Anet have seemingly abandoned raid development so suggesting a re-work makes no sense - there has been no indication that any resources will be used in that area of the game.

 

The real solution to people wanting PVE legendary armour is to remove this toxic attitude that raids are "super hardcore" or "inaccessible". They're not, but time and time again we see people giving raids 1 attempt and declaring to the entire world how bad their experience was, how impossible the content is, how all raiders are akin Mussolini or Mao, how the gear requirements are unreachable and that nobody should every even try to go there. 

Is every raid run amazing? - No.

Is every raid run successful? - No.

However raids are a part of the game which become more fun the more you do them and far more people should look into them than currently attempt them.

[Erise.5614]

2 hours ago, disco.9302 said:

Legendary armour I would say is the main incentive for people to get into raids. What else do you get from there? skins/titles/chairs/some ascended gear. Most people value those way less and would not have tried raiding because the rewards are pretty poor on paper if the legendary gear wasn't also a goal.

Raiding becomes more fun after a few tries for the majority, I won't try to pretend that a new player will have the best time of their lives immediately upon entering their 1st wing.

Anet have seemingly abandoned raid development so suggesting a re-work makes no sense - there has been no indication that any resources will be used in that area of the game.

 

The real solution to people wanting PVE legendary armour is to remove this toxic attitude that raids are "super hardcore" or "inaccessible". They're not, but time and time again we see people giving raids 1 attempt and declaring to the entire world how bad their experience was, how impossible the content is, how all raiders are akin Mussolini or Mao, how the gear requirements are unreachable and that nobody should every even try to go there. 

Is every raid run amazing? - No.

Is every raid run successful? - No.

However raids are a part of the game which become more fun the more you do them and far more people should look into them than currently attempt them.

The problem with raids is on boarding, the problem with raids is the outdated LFG format, the problem with raids is that they are more fun if you exclude beginners, the problem with raids is that they demand a huge, long term commitment to actually get enjoyment out of them. 

Most of the mechanics are fine in theory. The content is very possible to clear. It's not some ubar hardcore complexity. And yet, it's still very unenjoyable unless you are an extremely hardcore player who organizes their life around the game. Because it doesn't get more enjoyable the more you play.

Raids get more enjoyable the better your team performs. You get better over time. Smoothing out your contribution. But unless you play in a static or with a consistent community the increase in fun caps out very quickly. As you keep struggling with the same encounters over and over in the no KP runs you are allowed to join. I have enough LI for an armor and still aren't accepted in most groups. Which is insane. Not that gaining those is the solution I'm looking for. I dislike the need for gatekeeping that strict inherently. The content is built in such a way to foster group building and regular participation. If you do not form a community and keep at it every week you have a drastically worse time. If that's not your cup of tea then the content will simply remain a mostly unenjoyable experience. 

No rewards can fix that. Locking a reward like legendary armor behind it just feels antagonizing and reinforced my negative opinion of the content and it's community. The format, just like most competitive modes or games (aka PvP), inherently fosters exclusion or toxicity. Sometimes even both. Because that's the optimal way of engaging with the content.

The only fix to participation is streamlining the experience when playing and when entering the content. Which strikes once again messed up by having different mechanics in all 3 versions. And LFG didn't get any better either. In fact, I suspect it exaggerates the toxic and abusive parts of the hardcore community by very prominently featuring the same style of gatekeeping and selling individual strikes for 300+ gold. In content that really does not need it in the slightest. EoD normal strikes do not need either of that. 

The problem with raids is how ANet teaches players the game, what ANet expects of the players and the behavior these two things encourage. The problem with raids is that at their very core they are built to create negative experiences unless you plan your life around the game. 

[Fuchslein.8639]

22 minutes ago, Erise.5614 said:

The problem IN MY OPINION with raids is on boarding, the problem with raids is the outdated LFG format, the problem with raids is that they are more fun if you exclude beginners, the problem with raids is that they demand a huge, long term commitment to actually get enjoyment out of them. 

Most of the mechanics are fine in theory. The content is very possible to clear. It's not some ubar hardcore complexity. And yet, it's still very unenjoyable unless you are an extremely hardcore player who organizes their life around the game. Because it doesn't get more enjoyable the more you play.

Raids get more enjoyable the better your team performs. You get better over time. Smoothing out your contribution. But unless you play in a static or with a consistent community the increase in fun caps out very quickly. As you keep struggling with the same encounters over and over in the no KP runs you are allowed to join. I have enough LI for an armor and still aren't accepted in most groups. Which is insane. Not that gaining those is the solution I'm looking for. I dislike the need for gatekeeping that strict inherently. The content is built in such a way to foster group building and regular participation. If you do not form a community and keep at it every week you have a drastically worse time. If that's not your cup of tea then the content will simply remain a mostly unenjoyable experience. 

No rewards can fix that. Locking a reward like legendary armor behind it just feels antagonizing and reinforced my negative opinion of the content and it's community. The format, just like most competitive modes or games (aka PvP), inherently fosters exclusion or toxicity. Sometimes even both. Because that's the optimal way of engaging with the content.

The only fix to participation is streamlining the experience when playing and when entering the content. Which strikes once again messed up by having different mechanics in all 3 versions. And LFG didn't get any better either. In fact, I suspect it exaggerates the toxic and abusive parts of the hardcore community by very prominently featuring the same style of gatekeeping and selling individual strikes for 300+ gold. In content that really does not need it in the slightest. EoD normal strikes do not need either of that. 

The problem with raids is how ANet teaches players the game, what ANet expects of the players and the behavior these two things encourage. The problem with raids is that at their very core they are built to create negative experiences unless you plan your life around the game. 

There, fixed it for you.

[mythical.6315]

22 hours ago, Lévis.5489 said:

But all you see are people selling runs in the LFG tool  instead of  real teams.

This is because most groups are formed outside of the LFG with it primarily used to find fills. 

22 hours ago, Lévis.5489 said:

It makes you feel like raids are abandoned just like dungeons at this point. 

They essentially are by the devs as they’ve made no communication that they intend to continue to support them and add new raids. Fractals have reached a similar situation as they go full steam with strikes. 

On the other end, players do still do raids. It’s just that, as I said above, they’re forming groups outside of the LFG. 

22 hours ago, Lévis.5489 said:

Having legendary armor for other game modes such as  Fractals or Strikes would actually make sense. Heck, having a legendary armor collection linked to several future living stories episodes, (think Skyscale collection, but even on a higher scale) would  also make sense at this point.

Make sense how?  Because it’d be easier?

Edited April 27, 2022 by mythical.6315

[Xerxez.7361]

10 minutes ago, mythical.6315 said:

They essentially are by the devs as they’ve made no communication that they intend to continue to support them and add new raids. Fractals have reached a similar situation as they go full steam with strikes.

 

The new Strikes have Legendary Insights which is pretty blatant communication that they want to increase interest in raiding so they can design new content for it.

 

Fractals have 22/25 Different Fractals so we can expect 3 more maybe not in the near future, but in the future.

[mythical.6315]

4 minutes ago, Xerxez.7361 said:

The new Strikes have Legendary Insights which is pretty blatant communication that they want to increase interest in raiding so they can design new content for it.

So if they added LS4 currencies then you could take that as blatant communication that they want to create interest in LS4 content?  I don’t see the correlation. 
 

5 minutes ago, Xerxez.7361 said:

Fractals have 22/25 Different Fractals so we can expect 3 more maybe not in the near future, but in the future.

Ok. When was the last fractal released?  How frequently have they been releasing new fractals?  How does this release schedule compare to other MMOs?

[Erise.5614]

17 minutes ago, mythical.6315 said:

So if they added LS4 currencies then you could take that as blatant communication that they want to create interest in LS4 content?  I don’t see the correlation. 

There is literally nothing you can do with LI unless you played a significant amount of raids.

It's like the game design in most mobile games with premium currencies. Giving out a bit of currency to make the difference seem smaller and get people to make their first purchase. Or in this case, give people a currency they will look into how they can spend. Having them start raiding.

Strikes overall are a pretty clear attempt to push raid like content. Which, just to clarify, I think is a good idea. As mentioned above. I consider the onboarding experience to be a huge factor. Strikes are better in a lot of ways. From mechanics during the fight requiring more even participation by everyone to teaching at least some of the mechanics in easier versions. Lots of good stuff. We'll see whether it's good enough. Though it's a step in the right direction. 

But unless there's a major change in how LI can be spent adding it as reward to strikes is primarily a way to get more people into raids.

Edited April 27, 2022 by Erise.5614

[mythical.6315]

7 minutes ago, Erise.5614 said:

There is literally nothing you can do with LI unless you played a significant amount of raids.

And there’s literally nothing you can do with LS4 currencies unless you go onto the LS4 maps. 

[Erise.5614]

13 minutes ago, mythical.6315 said:

And there’s literally nothing you can do with LS4 currencies unless you go onto the LS4 maps. 

Since you'd only need to go there to spend it, it wouldn't actually serve the purpose to increase participation on LS4 maps. It would encourage people to not play LS4 but only go there to spend their currency (e.g. Humble Stone & IBS strikes). 

However, since you must play raids before you can spend LI the situation is different here. 

Edited April 27, 2022 by Erise.5614

[Brandon Uzumaki.1524]

I'm all for it, but it would never work, a OW legendary armor would need to be at least 3 times longer and require 3 times the work of the Skyscale Collection, and we know most casuals would still complain about that, even though it would still be waaaaay easier to acquire than all other methods.

Could be like some sort of "Return to GW2" or something, the multiple collections would require you to play and do stuff on every map in the game (except LW ones maybe), from Core to EoD, including doing the big metas multiple times for some time-gated currency.
But we all know this alone would put a lot casuals off (since, i believe all this talk of "OW armor", is aimed at casuals right), they would see "do EoD meta 10 times for X currency", and they all would go "REEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE".

So yeah, might not work, would be very cool tou, just to have something extra to work towards.

[Xerxez.7361]

1 minute ago, Brandon Uzumaki.1524 said:

I'm all for it, but it would never work, a OW legendary armor would need to be at least 3 times longer and require 3 times the work of the Skyscale Collection, and we know most casuals would still complain about that, even though it would still be waaaaay easier to acquire than all other methods.

Could be like some sort of "Return to GW2" or something, the multiple collections would require you to play and do stuff on every map in the game (except LW ones maybe), from Core to EoD, including doing the big metas multiple times for some time-gated currency.
But we all know this alone would put a lot casuals off (since, i believe all this talk of "OW armor", is aimed at casuals right), they would see "do EoD meta 10 times for X currency", and they all would go "REEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE".

So yeah, might not work, would be very cool tou, just to have something extra to work towards.

 

I wish the Raid set was only 3x longer than the Skyscale Collection. If Return was out when I was doing my collection I could've had it done in 3 days instead of 1 week.

[Erise.5614]

9 minutes ago, Brandon Uzumaki.1524 said:

I'm all for it, but it would never work, a OW legendary armor would need to be at least 3 times longer and require 3 times the work of the Skyscale Collection, and we know most casuals would still complain about that, even though it would still be waaaaay easier to acquire than all other methods.

Could be like some sort of "Return to GW2" or something, the multiple collections would require you to play and do stuff on every map in the game (except LW ones maybe), from Core to EoD, including doing the big metas multiple times for some time-gated currency.
But we all know this alone would put a lot casuals off (since, i believe all this talk of "OW armor", is aimed at casuals right), they would see "do EoD meta 10 times for X currency", and they all would go "REEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE".

So yeah, might not work, would be very cool tou, just to have something extra to work towards.

But we already have legendary weapons and trinkets for OW which cost a lot more and require extensive effort. Hours worth of various meta maps, all kinds of obscure stuff. Events that happen one hour after the previous one so you can never know when and just have to wait up to an hour.

All of that exists. How is that not causing outrage? And why is armor different?

Edited April 27, 2022 by Erise.5614

[Sobx.1758]

53 minutes ago, Erise.5614 said:

But we already have legendary weapons and trinkets for OW which cost a lot more and require extensive effort. Hours worth of various meta maps, all kinds of obscure stuff. Events that happen one hour after the previous one so you can never know when and just have to wait up to an hour.

All of that exists. How is that not causing outrage? And why is armor different?

So you spam OW to get the leggy weapons, but if you want to have a full legendary gear, you need to participate in broader content of the game. How is this still unclear? If you want to limit yourself just to that ow content, you're free to do that as much as you're free to play without full legendary gear. It was never a problem and still isn't one, despite some people trying to pretend otherwise.

Edited April 27, 2022 by Sobx.1758

[Erise.5614]

6 minutes ago, Sobx.1758 said:

So you spam OW to get the leggy weapons, but if you want to have a full legendary gear, you need to participate in broader content of the game. How is this still unclear? If you want to limit yourself to the base content, you're free to do that as much as you're free to play without full legendary gear. It was never a problem and still isn't one, despite some people trying to pretend otherwise.

Literally no one is claiming the game is unplayable because of it or that it's a huge problem. Lol

Edited April 27, 2022 by Erise.5614

[Sobx.1758]

23 minutes ago, Erise.5614 said:

Literally no one is claiming the game is unplayable because of it or that it's a huge problem. Lol

I've seen enough posts on this forum to know you're literally wrong here. Unless by "literally no one" you mean "I don't", but then that's neither "literally", nor "no one". 😄

But also if you understand it's not a problem, then stop trying to bait easier/faster acquisition just because you don't want to play more of the game's content 🤷‍♂️ (and you've kind of missed the rest of the post)

Edited April 27, 2022 by Sobx.1758

[Erise.5614]

13 minutes ago, Sobx.1758 said:

I've seen enough posts on this forum to know you're literally wrong here. Unless by "literally no one" you mean "I don't", but then that's neither "literally", nor "no one". 😄

But also if it's not a problem, then stop trying to bait easier/faster acquisition just because you don't want to play more of the game's content 🤷‍♂️ (and you've kind of missed the rest of the post)

There's a difference between a problem and QoL / positive change for the game. 

Making a game more convenient with no downsides to it isn't solving a problem. It's just making the game more enjoyable.

You are calling it a problem. You are saying it's just about easier / faster acquisition. You are the one calling people lazy. 

But these are all things you interpret. Thing you claim. 

[Sobx.1758]

8 minutes ago, Erise.5614 said:

There's a difference between a problem and QoL / positive change for the game. 

Making a game more convenient with no downsides to it isn't solving a problem. It's just making the game more enjoyable.

Yeah, baiting for easier/faster rewards does make it "more enjoyable". But if stat-change was supposed to be an inherent part of the game, then it would be. Currently it's part of the pretty much a top-end reward group that's supposed to reward players participating more of the game's content. "it's making the game more enjoyable" is extremely diluted and convenient ""argument"" to make, since it can be anything for anyone, which still doesn't make it somehow good for the game by default.

Quote

You are calling it a problem. You are saying it's just about easier / faster acquisition.

Because that's what most people vouching for new acquisition path want. It's basically "I want to keep replaying what I'm already replaying, but I want you to give me more rewards for it". Just check that "draft" thread someone made recently. That's exaclty what it is.

Quote

But these are all things you interpret. Thing you claim. 

No. It's commenting directly on what I read on this forum.

But still: So you spam OW to get the leggy weapons, but if you want to have a full legendary gear, you need to participate in broader content of the game. How is this still unclear? If you want to limit yourself just to that ow content, you're free to do that as much as you're free to play without full legendary gear.

Edited April 27, 2022 by Sobx.1758

[Erise.5614]

28 minutes ago, Sobx.1758 said:

Yeah, baiting for easier/faster rewards does make it "more enjoyable". But if stat-change was supposed to be an inherent part of the game, then it would be. Currently it's part of the pretty much a top-end reward group that's supposed to reward players participating more of the game's content. "it's making the game more enjoyable" is extremely diluted and convenient ""argument"" to make, since it can be anything for anyone, which still doesn't make it somehow good for the game by default.

Anything anyone would consider more enjoyable that doesn't harm the game. That doesn't make the game worse makes the game better. By default.

The question there is whether it's worth the effort. How many people are served by the change and how large the investment would be.

There are legitimate concerns for potential negative impacts and whether it's worth it. Just calling everyone lazy or saying it's not a problem is not one of those arguments though. 

28 minutes ago, Sobx.1758 said:

Because that's what most people vouching for new acquisition path want. It's basically "I want to keep replaying what I'm already replaying, but I want you to give me more rewards for it". Just check that "draft" thread someone made recently. That's exaclty what it is.

On one hand, you are generalizing few peoples points. And yeah. I'm sure some ask for unreasonable things. I'm also sure most players do not understand game economy or retention design. But even those kinds of threads don't call it a serious problem.

I consider anyone who fixates on specifics to be derailing anyway. ANet needs to look at the data they have and make the best decisions for the game. If they implement an alternative path they have to and obviously will make it appropriately expensive and long.

If that's your concern, then there really isn't a reason to be concerned. It would be news to me if ANet starts handing out freebies. Especially since EoD they have gotten a lot more stingy with rewards and I'd expect that trend to continue. 

28 minutes ago, Sobx.1758 said:

No. It's commenting directly on what I read on this forum.

But still: So you spam OW to get the leggy weapons, but if you want to have a full legendary gear, you need to participate in broader content of the game. How is this still unclear? If you want to limit yourself just to that ow content, you're free to do that as much as you're free to play without full legendary gear.

Because OW is lacking in long term goals. Weapons have a limited appeal and are a huge step to get into legendary crafting. Armor could make for an excellent path into legendary crafting by being more expensive to craft but cutting that cost in 6. Making each individual piece a much more approachable goal.

Nudging players into different kinds of content is fine too. But the entire history of Arena Net is overvaluing certain aspects of the game before having to backpaddle. From GW1 being originally PvP focused. GW2 releasing on the same assumption that OW and even instanced content is just a stepping stone into the two PvP modes. That is what the progression and reward structure of release built up to. That's what their esports push was.

ANet shifting focus to then overestimate instanced content three times over. The worst offender being Raids where they invested huge amounts of resources for limited appeal despite having some of the most desirable content in the game locked behind them. As well as the easiest and fastest access to all other actual combat progression. 

It is valid to experiment with something. It is valid to encourage people to play certain content. But OW is PvE endgame too. 

Honestly. Legendary armor as it exists right now is poorly designed from start to end. Each piece should require limited amount of engagement with all modes. Let's say, for arguments sake. One hour of each. With a collection before you can start making your first armor requiring 4 - 6 hours of each mode.  And then a lot of effort in whatever mode you prefer. So you can spend the majority of your time invested playing the content you enjoy most. Being aware of all of them. Haven given all of them an honest attempt. But being able to decide based on your mood what you'd like to play. 

It's bad there's 3 versions of the armor. And it's bad that they require such an excessive amount of play in one single type of gameplay. To me, that says quite loudly that ANet has no idea how to make those modes appealing. How to get anyone to play them. So they had to lock some of the most desirable content in the game behind them. And even then all modes have low participation. While also building up resentment against the modes and the game. Leading to plenty of negativity along the way which isn't good for the game.

Maybe ANet should work on increasing the inherent appeal. Making it enjoyable to more people. Rather than dangling golden carrots in front of people who don't enjoy it? Artificially inflating the player numbers?

Even big content creators complain about raid participation and players in their communities outright stating they only play for the armor and want to drop off right after.

The problem here isn't the reward.

It's the content itself. Or associated systems (looking at you LFG).

At least that's my perspective and opinion. 

Edited April 27, 2022 by Erise.5614

[TheQuickFox.3826]

It probably will happen some day. We already got leggy armor for raids, WvW, PvP. I see no reason why open world PvE would not get their own set.

Just don't hold your breadth waiting for it.