Powercreep of shiro herald

[myun.6395]

What are you devs smoking?

 

WILLBENDER.

 

You basically created a shiro herald powercreep.

 

Herald is weak to condis, willbender is not.

Herald has no stab access, very susceptible to cc.

Willy has almoat perma stab, on a 25 sec cd who even share it with allies and grants million boons.

 

Sword4 and sword5 are direct powercreeps of revenant sword4 and 5 who got nerfed several times, and yet they released a powercreeped version of it, goodjob.

 

It has 10 times the mobility of herald with more teleports.

 

It has even more damage than it.

 

According to top pvp players as well (so it's not my "noob" opinion like many crying main guards will probably tell me) there is no reason to play herald anymore if willbender exist in its current state.

 

Also willbender has way more favourable 1vs1 matchups.

 

Broken spec for apes who directly powercreeps another spec who was already nerfed several times because how good performing it was.

 

Wonder why balance is trash in this game.

 

 

[agrippastrilemma.8741]

Yeah herald was already the best roamer in the game,

 

then they created willbender and untamed

[Arheundel.6451]

Given how nobody plays willbender in MAT or serious roaming in WvW.....we can realize where the complaints are coming from....

[myun.6395]

32 minutes ago, Arheundel.6451 said:

Given how nobody plays willbender in MAT or serious roaming in WvW.....we can realize where the complaints are coming from....

Given your bronze rank and your not awareness of the last monthly AT we can realize where the comments like this are coming from.

[Myror.7521]

Oh no herald is overshadow by another class. How dare you anet. Okay for Real who cares about pvp. It get no Support and Balance patches in hard wrong ways. I play this crap since Release get hopes that anet learn its way but no they get their way in a big Black whole with every Patch they Release. Pvp now ends in a clown Fiesta build around specs that are tanky and Power ceep at the same time lmao xd.

[Lighter.5631]

and shiro herald/vindi are still played over the others in high competition for how sustainable these are while maintaining as a valuable roamer.

Edited April 24, 2022 by Lighter.5631

[myun.6395]

19 minutes ago, Lighter.5631 said:

and shiro herald/vindi are still played over the others in high competition for how sustainable these are while maintaining as a valuable roamer.

Go watch the montly and comeback. Only azurrs played vindi at top level and arrived in the finals.

All the others having herald against willbender simply didn't make it.

[Lighter.5631]

30 minutes ago, myun.6395 said:

Go watch the montly and comeback. Only azurrs played vindi at top level and arrived in the finals.

All the others having herald against willbender simply didn't make it.

i guess so, i'll take your word for it, i haven't watched anything or paied any attention lately.

..but whatever man like..nobody cares...

since only thief and rev dominated in this area for years without being challenged in this clearly overpowered category of role.

while everybody else has to compete for the already limited slot and some with years of off-meta time. whatever the rev is feeling now is only 1/3 of what the rest of us felt for years..we are dull now

 

i'd be happy to see rev finally going to the bench in the roamer category for some fresh air..i doubt thief will ever be challenged tho..i can only dream.

also more classes being able to compete in this category may reveal how OP this role is..so people may actually start complaining but i doubt anet will do anything as rev/thief had many nerfs, but they were always top tier since they were in this role category unchallenged, unless anet start removing skills

Edited April 24, 2022 by Lighter.5631

[Downstate.4697]

Tempest is good vs a comp with willbender. Not only do you spam protection, you can sit in earth and deny their 100% crit chance. Face a team with bunker potential and you will find willbender is easily managable. Double support might be the new meta in ATs with all of the dps lately.

[Arheundel.6451]

3 hours ago, myun.6395 said:

Given your bronze rank and your not awareness of the last monthly AT we can realize where the comments like this are coming from.

Really nobody cares what rank you call yourself on the pvp forum....anybody reaches plat if they have time to waste or deludes himself enough to think winning a a misfit bunch of random games. and.they become balance experts...like seriously ..GW2 ranked arena is the equivalent of Random arena from GW1..and all the titles got exactly the same value...none.

Still...let's have some fun

I see no willbenders...power revs though...

Oh is this guy you are talking about?

https://m.twitch.tv/videos/1445404449

...Yeah..I can see him being overwhelmed by willbenders....you know what?! Once more..my comment:

"Given how nobody plays willbender in MAT or serious roaming in WvW.....we can realize where the complaints are coming from...."

All in all...to compare willbender to herald...jesus....whatever

[ArthurDent.9538]

43 minutes ago, Arheundel.6451 said:

Really nobody cares what rank you call yourself on the pvp forum....anybody reaches plat if they have time to waste or deludes himself enough to think winning a a misfit bunch of random games. and.they become balance experts...like seriously ..GW2 ranked arena is the equivalent of Random arena from GW1..and all the titles got exactly the same value...none.

Still...let's have some fun

I see no willbenders...power revs though...

Oh is this guy you are talking about?

https://m.twitch.tv/videos/1445404449

...Yeah..I can see him being overwhelmed by willbenders....you know what?! Once more..my comment:

"Given how nobody plays willbender in MAT or serious roaming in WvW.....we can realize where the complaints are coming from...."

All in all...to compare willbender to herald...jesus....whatever

Thread is about how willbender is just a better power herald now; proceeds to link footage from before the patch that massively buffed willbender. Critical thinking not your strong suit I guess.

[Arheundel.6451]

24 minutes ago, ArthurDent.9538 said:

Thread is about how willbender is just a better power herald now; proceeds to link footage from before the patch that massively buffed willbender. Critical thinking not your strong suit I guess.

Righteous Instincts has been a key piece of power guardian builds for as long as it's been in the game. Core power guardian currently sees average success in lower ranked play, but it hasn't been a major player in higher ranks or serious tournament games for quite a while. While we were looking at updates for willbender, we floated the idea of enhancing Righteous Instincts and saw it as an interesting option. This is another change that we'll be keeping a very close eye on to measure the impact and see if it's something that we need to reevaluate.

• Righteous Instincts: Increased bonus critical chance from 25% to 40% in PvP only.

While the Righteous Instincts effect is potentially a big one for willbender, we felt that there were a few other pieces that were worth adjusting. A longer immobilization on Advancing Strike gives willbender slightly more potential to set up its own damage, and lower virtue cooldowns solidify the specialization as a high-mobility roamer.

• Advancing Strike: Increased immobile duration from 1 second to 2 seconds in PvP and WvW.
• Lethal Tempo: Increased damage bonus per stack from 2% to 3% in PvP and WvW.
• Flowing Resolve: Reduced ammo recharge from 30 seconds to 20 seconds in PvP and WvW. Increased initial base heal from 783 to 1,331 in PvP and WvW.
• Crashing Courage: Reduced cooldown from 50 seconds to 30 seconds in PvP and WvW.
• Roiling Light: Reduced cooldown from 30 seconds to 25 seconds in PvP and WvW.
• Heaven's Palm: Reduced cooldown from 25 seconds to 20 seconds in PvP and WvW.
• Mighty Blow: Reduced cooldown from 8 seconds to 6 seconds in PvP and WvW.
• Zealot's Embrace: Increased power coefficient from 0.8 to 1.2 in PvP and WvW.
• Ring of Warding: Reduced cooldown from 30 seconds to 25 seconds in PvP and WvW.
•  
•  
• Please! Please! Please! I want a video of @Arthurdent playing a physical willbender in PvP and not get rolled over in 10s ....c'mon I am being fair, given the state of gw2 pvp right now...that's defintely possible, actually I am sure you can play physical willbender and make it to platinum ..so give me a video pls.

 

 

Edited April 24, 2022 by Arheundel.6451

[Kuma.1503]

Herald has a low cooldown teleport that gives them quickness and their next few hits unblockable as well as an evade frame that they can use to stick to their target while dealing damage and generating might. 

I wouldn't call Willbender a direct upgrade.

 

[Arheundel.6451]

Just now, Kuma.1503 said:

Herald has a low cooldown teleport that gives them quickness and their next few hits unblockable as well as an evade frame that they can use to stick to their target while dealing damage and generating might. 

I wouldn't call Willbender a direct upgrade.

 

Pls move aside ....your power herads stands no chance against the massively buffed willbender and the power of Heaven's palm and rolling right! Nothing will stand in their way!

[myun.6395]

2 hours ago, Arheundel.6451 said:

Really nobody cares what rank you call yourself on the pvp forum....anybody reaches plat if they have time to waste or deludes himself enough to think winning a a misfit bunch of random games. and.they become balance experts...like seriously ..GW2 ranked arena is the equivalent of Random arena from GW1..and all the titles got exactly the same value...none.

Still...let's have some fun

I see no willbenders...power revs though...

Oh is this guy you are talking about?

https://m.twitch.tv/videos/1445404449

...Yeah..I can see him being overwhelmed by willbenders....you know what?! Once more..my comment:

"Given how nobody plays willbender in MAT or serious roaming in WvW.....we can realize where the complaints are coming from...."

All in all...to compare willbender to herald...jesus....whatever

All top pvp players stated already that willbender is simply a better herald, and also can take so many duels and win because how busted it is. So right now it's the best roamer available. Great at +1, great in team fights, good in many 1vs1s.

 

So now guardian not only have sup guard as broken ape tier spec to play, it has another meta build. Not to mention trap dh is still viable.

While I am playing ele and have to rely on 11k hp light armor to do 1/10 the damage a willbender can do.

[Trevor Boyer.6524]

6 hours ago, Arheundel.6451 said:

Given how nobody plays willbender in MAT or serious roaming in WvW.....we can realize where the complaints are coming from....

 

5 hours ago, myun.6395 said:

Given your bronze rank and your not awareness of the last monthly AT we can realize where the comments like this are coming from.

 

2 hours ago, Arheundel.6451 said:

Once more..my comment:

"Given how nobody plays willbender in MAT or serious roaming in WvW.....we can realize where the complaints are coming from...."

Given the amount of observation on where complaints are coming from, I can definitely see where these complaints are coming from.

Edited April 24, 2022 by Trevor Boyer.6524

[Ragnar.4257]

11 hours ago, myun.6395 said:

Sword4 and sword5 are direct powercreeps of revenant sword4 and 5 who got nerfed several times, and yet they released a powercreeped version of it, goodjob.

In what way?

Do you mean the way in which WB sword4 has 3x less range than rev sword4?

Or do you mean the way in which WB sword5 does nearly half the damage of rev sword5 and a longer cooldown?

11 hours ago, myun.6395 said:

Herald has no stab access, very susceptible to cc.

And herald also has itself alot more CC ? WB has 1 easily avoided CC on greatsword. Herald has staff5 and 2x elite.

11 hours ago, myun.6395 said:

Herald is weak to condis, willbender is not.

And Herald has access to quickness and unblockable, which WB doesn't. You can't have everything. You can't be upset that another class has something you don't have, when you yourself have stuff that others don't.

11 hours ago, myun.6395 said:

Willy has almoat perma stab, on a 25 sec cd who even share it with allies and grants million boons.

I mean, that's just obviously a lie. How can it be "permanent" when its 4s duration on a 25s CD? Thats the same stability access as Reaper. Do you think Reaper has 'permanent' stability too? And, other than that 1 stability skill, what other boons does WB grant allies that herald doesn't? You remember herald facets are a thing, right?

11 hours ago, myun.6395 said:

It has 10 times the mobility of herald with more teleports.

What? The meta WB build has 4 teleports, and that's being pretty generous considering that the teleport on sw5 is only 100 range. Herald has 3 teleports. Does 1 more teleport mean much? Given that herald also has access to on-demand 50% movemenet speed buff?

11 hours ago, myun.6395 said:

It has even more damage than it.

Debatable, yes WB has higher potential damage, especially cleaving in a big group, but herald has much easier and safer ways to land its damage. Compare sword3 on both. One does more damage, but roots you in place , will miss if the target is strafing, and can be blocked by projectile denial. The other is evading the entire time and tracks the target even if they kite. Which is better, hmmm??

11 hours ago, myun.6395 said:

Also willbender has way more favourable 1vs1 matchups.

Exactly what 1v1 matchups is WB favoured into? You aren't going to 1v1 any meta duelist build with WB. Yeah you can meme other non-duelist builds, but, who cares? Good luck playing that into mechanist or catalyst or bladesworn. Neither herald or WB are good at 1v1, and that's fine because that's not their role.

 

Is WB pretty good? Yeah. Is it better than herald? Honestly, it's pretty close right now, they both have their pros and cons.

Edited April 25, 2022 by Ragnar.4257

[Sereath.1428]

Yes, about the same potential but with half the risk of playing Herald.
Bruh, I called it and this was thanks to the complaints of people wanting their specs to be broken strong. Devs just can't ever win.

And as usual people are ignoring the risk/reward aspect which is crucial for balance. It's the exact same thing that has being happening with Necro in recent years, you can't have low risk classes be as rewarding as other more punishing ones.
Not all classes/builds can or should be at the "top".

And please guys, stop using MAT class representation as the only factor to balance the rest of PvP. No wonder why PvP has been hell for several years now. Special thanks to their "balance" discord.

Edited April 25, 2022 by XxsdgxX.8109

[Arheundel.6451]

4 hours ago, Trevor Boyer.6524 said:

 

 

Given the amount of observation on where complaints are coming from, I can definitely see where these complaints are coming from.

Ha...The king of Rangers is here.....killed by a staff ele.....

4 hours ago, myun.6395 said:

All top pvp players stated already that willbender is simply a better herald, and also can take so many duels and win because how busted it is. So right now it's the best roamer available. Great at +1, great in team fights, good in many 1vs1s.

 

So now guardian not only have sup guard as broken ape tier spec to play, it has another meta build. Not to mention trap dh is still viable.

While I am playing ele and have to rely on 11k hp light armor to do 1/10 the damage a willbender can do.

So now you jump on ele .....I have 9k hrs on ele...and you come here with "rely on 11k hp and 1/10 of the dmg of willbender".....ok...

Edited April 25, 2022 by Arheundel.6451

[Shao.7236]

6 hours ago, Kuma.1503 said:

Herald has a low cooldown teleport that gives them quickness and their next few hits unblockable as well as an evade frame that they can use to stick to their target while dealing damage and generating might. 

I wouldn't call Willbender a direct upgrade.

 

What is it with Phase Traversal constantly seen as OP, all it takes is any form of CC to counter it. Also Shiro isn't Herald, everyone play Herald because it's less complicated than Core when it comes to just get anything done. Quickness is essential for Revenant to achieve anything and yet the mains of the profession forget about it when it comes to things like Hammer being so slow. Next few attacks is laughable as two hits is just enough for a single skill to do anything but nobody ever bats an eye on that either, as if somehow there's leeway for Revenant to do two burst skills with those two unblockables.

Not using Jalis at all assumes that you don't want sustain either and that's giving up on quite a bit. Revenant is way more balanced than most think mostly due to the fact that no one plays half the rest of the profession or have tried at all.

 

Willbender or Guardian in general has way less compromises than Revenant has to make just by mere design and thus doesn't come as a surprise that the profession limited by sets of skills is easily overshadowed by one that gets an elite that aims for a style that it would only be able to replicate as half the potential of.

 

Glint skills are just a placeholder the same way that Jalis was a placeholder for Kalla.

 

Besides, no one is talking about Core Thief being able to go in /and/ out on repeat. There's always something being slept on, hilariously enough it likely wasn't in the past and somehow forgotten. Players in this game are quite quick to forget anything.

Edited April 25, 2022 by Shao.7236

[mortrialus.3062]

Don't be MAD a power rev Willbender OUTSKILLED you

[Kuma.1503]

1 hour ago, Shao.7236 said:

What is it with Phase Traversal constantly seen as OP, all it takes is any form of CC to counter it. Also Shiro isn't Herald, everyone play Herald because it's less complicated than Core when it comes to just get anything done. Quickness is essential for Revenant to achieve anything and yet the mains of the profession forget about it when it comes to things like Hammer being so slow. Next few attacks is laughable as two hits is just enough for a single skill to do anything but nobody ever bats an eye on that either, as if somehow there's leeway for Revenant to do two burst skills with those two unblockables.

Not using Jalis at all assumes that you don't want sustain either and that's giving up on quite a bit. Revenant is way more balanced than most think mostly due to the fact that no one plays half the rest of the profession or have tried at all.

 

Willbender or Guardian in general has way less compromises than Revenant has to make just by mere design and thus doesn't come as a surprise that the profession limited by sets of skills is easily overshadowed by one that gets an elite that aims for a style that it would only be able to replicate as half the potential of.

 

Glint skills are just a placeholder the same way that Jalis was a placeholder for Kalla.

 

Besides, no one is talking about Core Thief being able to go in /and/ out on repeat. There's always something being slept on, hilariously enough it likely wasn't in the past and somehow forgotten. Players in this game are quite quick to forget anything.

I suppose that reaction is understandable given what this forum is known for. 

I never said Herald is OP. I simply pointed out two things it can do that Willbender can't. For all it's flaws, pRev is still a powerful build. Its existance makes it difficult to play pure glass, because positioning alone may not be able to save you when a Rev or Rev + theif duo port through a wall and delete you. 

This is simply the build doing what it's designed to do of course, but that's precicely the point I'm making. Herald is still very good at its job.

I don't think Willbender is going to replace them barring any future balance changes, but I can see it being a viable alternative... which is a good thing. 

Edited April 25, 2022 by Kuma.1503

[myun.6395]

3 hours ago, Kuma.1503 said:

I suppose that reaction is understandable given what this forum is known for. 

I never said Herald is OP. I simply pointed out two things it can do that Willbender can't. For all it's flaws, pRev is still a powerful build. Its existance makes it difficult to play pure glass, because positioning alone may not be able to save you when a Rev or Rev + theif duo port through a wall and delete you. 

This is simply the build doing what it's designed to do of course, but that's precicely the point I'm making. Herald is still very good at its job.

I don't think Willbender is going to replace them barring any future balance changes, but I can see it being a viable alternative... which is a good thing. 

Funny how willbender ALREADY replaced shiro herald in any high end comp and it was well shown in the latest montly AT.

 

Not to mention in ranked you see 1 herald every 50 games, always a willbender is 90% of the matches. So it's good for ranked as well.

 

Also Boyce said in his stream, and to be honest I trust his opinion considering he is a top player playing for years. There is no reason to play herald, willbender does herald job better, has more favourable 1v1s matchups as well. His words not mine.

 

I don't care if it's refreshing to have a new roamer, they nerfed shiro herald for a reason, they cannot release a dumb spec who powercreeps it in every aspect.

 

Equal skill level comp, one has herald as roamer, one has willbender, the team with willbender wins, that's a direct powercreep.

People talking of few unblockables attacks that herald has like they matter.

 

But whatever, if you think that crap is balanced ok, go abuse it as well thinking what good player you are.

[Kuma.1503]

29 minutes ago, myun.6395 said:

Funny how willbender ALREADY replaced shiro herald in any high end comp and it was well shown in the latest montly AT.

 

Not to mention in ranked you see 1 herald every 50 games, always a willbender is 90% of the matches. So it's good for ranked as well.

 

Also Boyce said in his stream, and to be honest I trust his opinion considering he is a top player playing for years. There is no reason to play herald, willbender does herald job better, has more favourable 1v1s matchups as well. His words not mine.

 

I don't care if it's refreshing to have a new roamer, they nerfed shiro herald for a reason, they cannot release a dumb spec who powercreeps it in every aspect.

 

Equal skill level comp, one has herald as roamer, one has willbender, the team with willbender wins, that's a direct powercreep.

People talking of few unblockables attacks that herald has like they matter.

 

But whatever, if you think that crap is balanced ok, go abuse it as well thinking what good player you are.

I'm gonna put a big citation needed on this. 

I'm perfectly willing to change my mind on this, but the only thing you've really done is assert things with nothing to back it up other than meaningless buzzwords like "powercreep", which, truth be told, gets used very liberally on these forums. 

It was played in the AT. Cool, what did it do. Which specific situations were the willbenders able to thrive in that the Heralds could not? Which matchups does it do better into and why? How do we know there weren't skill discrepancies between the two teams where Herald and Willbender are played? I'm going to be honest, games are not known to be evenly matched in AT's. 

I have a lot of questions and this post answeres none of them. Appeals to authority are meaningless unless you offer supplemental information and allow people to come to their own conclusions. Blindly believing what someone else tells you, regardless of how knowledable you believe they are is a generally bad practice. 

You obviously know something that I don't right now, so why not share? I'm interested in learning more about this matchup. 

 

 

 

[ThrakathNar.4537]

15 hours ago, Arheundel.6451 said:

Really nobody cares what rank you call yourself on the pvp forum....anybody reaches plat if they have time to waste or deludes himself enough to think winning a a misfit bunch of random games. and.they become balance experts...like seriously ..GW2 ranked arena is the equivalent of Random arena from GW1..and all the titles got exactly the same value...none.

Still...let's have some fun

I see no willbenders...power revs though...

Oh is this guy you are talking about?

https://m.twitch.tv/videos/1445404449

...Yeah..I can see him being overwhelmed by willbenders....you know what?! Once more..my comment:

"Given how nobody plays willbender in MAT or serious roaming in WvW.....we can realize where the complaints are coming from...."

All in all...to compare willbender to herald...jesus....whatever

I don't agree with everything else being said about how strong willbender is in this thread - but that's not the most recent MAT. That's the one from one month ago. The one that happened two days ago definitely had a willbender in the finals.

 

Here's the TPot vod for the most recent one, timestamped at the finals match. https://www.twitch.tv/videos/1464829075?t=3h33m5s . R55 play core support guard, mech, harbinger, willbender, and untamed.

 

Perhaps some people are exaggurating the strength of willbender, but that's no reason to underplay it. It used to be bad, but the extensive buffs it received really made it quite good.