Anet Fix that Condi kitten

[smiiirf.3201]

It starts to becoming a kittening bad experience. Everyhwere unkillable Condi Tanks or immortal Condi Rangers or thiefs with their spamming condi etc. Celestial infested or ministrel Immortals . It really starts to become boring as hell.

[kellenburger.9245]

Let's get rid of Berserker stats as well. They deal too much damage.

[solemn.9608]

2 minutes ago, kellenburger.9245 said:

Let's get rid of Berserker stats as well. They deal too much damage.

This reply turned into a small rant and isn't necessarily all directed at you personally

Vast majority of Power builds can't build extremely defensively and still do gank-level damage. There are many, many ways to heal - traits, boons, utilities/synergies... There are, on most classes/meta builds, not even close to enough cleanses to properly deal with problematic condi builds (condi mirage/virtuoso/mesmer in general, burn weaver, condi thief, core Necro ...). Usually the response we hear to this point is "JUST DODGE KEKW" or "git gud" - ok, play a class/build with tops 10~ individual cleanses via weapon/util/traits (not including cleanse sigil) per minute and fight a condi Mesmer, see if you last more than 25 seconds lmao. And before someone says "just slot more cleanses" you can't. There aren't enough. Lmao. But someone will of course chime in with

"OH but MY build has X amount of cleanses and I don't mind fighting condi"

yes, my antitoxin cleanse sigil "everything I do is a cleanse" weaver build is great for fighting condi as well. Should I necessarily have to take antitoxin, cleanse sigil, a second sigil that cleanses through synergy (or generosity), as well as fully traiting for as many cleanses possible in the game just to fight a condi Mesmer on even footing? 😹

MaaaYBE it's slightly unbalanced compared to power, where you can stat toughness against it, protection boon is more common, healing alone is more efficient than having to cleanse *and* heal at the same time, and power is usually ganky/squishy or wet noodle/tanky. Whereas condi is either ganky/tanky or ganky/tanky, no typo

 

[Hotride.2187]

26 minutes ago, kellenburger.9245 said:

Let's get rid of Berserker stats as well. They deal too much damage.

Only blob fight builds run berserker stats tbh, and wars that are desperately trying to do dmg. It might as well be removed w.r.t. roaming (which is where the rant is coming from, cause for a blob fight you got heal scrappers taking care of the condi vomit).

8 minutes ago, solemn.9608 said:

This reply turned into a small rant and isn't necessarily all directed at you personally

Give power builds the option to put down condi bunkers faster than the cleanses run out and we'd have different discussions going on.

Edited April 25, 2022 by Hotride.2187

[smiiirf.3201]

1 hour ago, kellenburger.9245 said:

Let's get rid of Berserker stats as well. They deal too much damage.

Dude DMG was nerfed across the board in FEB Patch. And now the whole game is infested with low  brain condi shitass which is boring as kittening hell. Whole groups who vomit their condis and insta kill and are tanky as kitten at the same time. What is that meant to be? Condi Wars 2 who can fart the condis faster & more?

Edited April 25, 2022 by Leolas.6273

[Xenesis.6389]

1 hour ago, solemn.9608 said:

fight a condi Mesmer, see if you last more than 25 seconds lmao

Yet there's also power mesmer builds that can one shot combo you from stealth, you don't even last 2sec, the new f1 bladesong has the potential to hit for 13k+, in fact there's a lot of classes that have the potential to one shot combo you. Somehow that's ok tho right?

 

And please don't tell me the BS about having to use zerk gear, there's so much defense/stealth/mobility built into classes now it doesn't matter, not to mention everyone runs around with support friends, soon dps specs will probably get their own might and fury generation(it's the anet dream!), which means they can run more tanky to offset.

...

..

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I support nerfing condi thieves and condi immob rangers tho!

🤭

Edited April 25, 2022 by Xenesis.6389

[Hotride.2187]

4 minutes ago, Xenesis.6389 said:

Yet there's also power mesmer builds that can one shot combo you from stealth, you don't even last 2sec, the new f1 bladesong has the potential to hit for 13k+, in fact there's a lot of classes that have the potential to one shot combo you. Somehow that's ok tho right?

For every power mesmer I run into, there are 10+ condi bunker mesmers (20+ honestly, I'm being generous). You tell me what is easier to play / more rewarding.

Edited April 25, 2022 by Hotride.2187

[Xenesis.6389]

1 minute ago, Hotride.2187 said:

For every power mesmer I run into, there are 10+ condi mesmers (20+ honestly, I'm being generous). You tell me what is easier to play / more rewarding.

Must be the server you're facing, I've been running into way more power mesmers lately.

[Kate.3679]

40 minutes ago, Leolas.6273 said:

Dude DMG was nerfed across the board in FEB Patch. And now the whole game is infested with low  brain condi shitass which is boring as kittening hell. Whole groups who vomit their condis and insta kill and are tanky as kitten at the same time. What is that meant to be? Condi Wars 2 who can fart the condis faster & more?

Unless you mean small roaming groups I find it extremely hard to believe condis are what's killing you in large coordinated groups. Scrapper does exist, after all.

[Aeolus.3615]

so far what ic in wvw theres 3 types of builds , minstrells &  condinbunkers(defended by almost all perma boons or very long duration)   like always , with the adition of power virtuoso using  the stacks of long quickness duration od burst targets.

This is the small and large scale gameplay i have been seen increasing after EoD, some servers ive found have only range (pirate ship effect with necros and thiefs all condi bunker stats)gameplay  only diference is some are use more aoe specs and others try to use be bursty  with some power range to pressure within the condi range aoe.

 

R.I.P. Melee combat 2012-2014.

Edited April 25, 2022 by Aeolus.3615

[solemn.9608]

1 hour ago, Xenesis.6389 said:

Yet there's also power mesmer builds that can one shot combo you from stealth, you don't even last 2sec, the new f1 bladesong has the potential to hit for 13k+, in fact there's a lot of classes that have the potential to one shot combo you. Somehow that's ok tho right?

 

And please don't tell me the BS about having to use zerk gear, there's so much defense/stealth/mobility built into classes now it doesn't matter, not to mention everyone runs around with support friends, soon dps specs will probably get their own might and fury generation(it's the anet dream!), which means they can run more tanky to offset.

...

..

.

I support nerfing condi thieves and condi immob rangers tho!

🤭

Yes, but I actually can "just dodge" power mesmers and virtuosos. But I cannot dodge the required 20 times in a row to fight a full trailblazer condi mirage. I am complaining about balance, you're complaining about a lack of skill/experience while fighting power.

Edit: though, you're not wrong. Power skills aren't immune to unbalance. Plenty of power skills that hit for way too much. I'm advocating for balancing both, not just condi.

It's just that condi is mechanically/inherently unbalanced, in WvW, whereas power is not. All condi is unbalanced. Not all power is unbalanced. You don't have to cleanse power skills, there is no extra mechanic involved. Condi bunkers, if uncleased, can kill with only a few button presses. With power you have to be full glass to one or two-shot, so there is a trade-off. Not so with condi.

Like stealth, it needs a change to the mechanic itself rather than duration nerfs. I.e. make stealth 90% translucent but barely visible or give it glitch-like flickers. As for condi idk what a potential solution would look like - maybe just remove it from the game, that'd be alright.

Edited April 25, 2022 by solemn.9608

[Xenesis.6389]

22 minutes ago, solemn.9608 said:

As for condi idk what a potential solution would look like - maybe just remove it from the game, that'd be alright.

Remove boons and you have a deal.

[solemn.9608]

Just now, Xenesis.6389 said:

Remove boons and you have a deal.

Hahaha ok deal

[Catchyfx.5768]

EU T1-2(sometimes T3) 18of20 enemies i face are trailblazer/cele just condi. I see power classes only if they have stealth, or insane mobility. And I get it, condies are almost same bursty as power builds(hello burning), and this is safe way how to deal with it. And trailblazer with perma prot? Lovely 😂 friend is playing ranger on different server trailblazer+ prot with regen, and with power herald i dont have dps to cut thru, he just heals back quickly and i would die on condies i get by hitting him( we just stand and I aa him just to see, no real fight).

 

Condies are here for more passive chill gameplay, just like in pve.

[Gotejjeken.1267]

What is an immortal condi ranger?

If we're still complaining about Druids when cele Harbs and condi Virtuoso exist then all I have to say is, there are too many noobs in WvW.

[Sansar.1302]

Condi is way to strong and have been since the February patch, it only promotes unskilled game play.

 

I think the problem with condi dmg is how well it synergises with being tanky.

 

High dmg condi builds should not be able to be tanky as they alerdy can focus on mobilety while pressuring 

 

Some classes have tools to handle alot of condis , most dont.

[Sereath.1428]

PvP was able to "get away" with the FEB 2020 nerf patch as they simply removed every single problematic stat combination, meanwhile WvW was left to rot with miserable balance.

Edited April 26, 2022 by XxsdgxX.8109

[Yellow Rainbow.6142]

44 minutes ago, XxsdgxX.8109 said:

PvP was able to "get away" with the FEB 2020 nerf patch as they simply removed every single problematic stat combination, meanwhile WvW was left to rot with miserable balance.

Except, in competitive game, If it's bad for you, it must be good for others. PvP is dead and WvW is thriving.

[Jitters.9401]

3 hours ago, Sansar.1302 said:

Some classes have tools to handle alot of condis , most dont.

Wrong. Just wrong. Every class has the means to handle condition damage via skills/traits/sigils....  If someone chooses not to then that is on them and only them.

 

I have a condition thief. 

I have a glass engineer.

Sometimes for something different I run virtuoso.

 

My condition thief cannot come close to the direct damage I get hit by from power users nor the damage I do with my engineer. 

 

I've been dismounted by a ranger then hit with 18k of damage from "Sic Em" and I am also revealed.  Range of that ability is 2000. I'm left with 3000 hitpoints and I have zero ability to cross that distance quickly.  I like to run scorpion wire which is 1200 and just fun to use. I never run shadowstep but it is also only 1200. 

 

My heal skill covers only 1/3rd of the damage on a 20 second cooldown. And I still need to get in close to an enemy with a full 100% health pool. 

 

I've also been immobilized by a heavy and have to stand there and take almost my entire health pool in damage before I can react. I'm still going to win the fight but out of skill. I do not run d/p so I do not have that stealth. 

 

Like I said... I do not use shadowstep. That is my choice. I will never call for those massive direct damage builds to be nerfed just because "I" chose to run certain skills/traits. 

 

 

With my Glass Engineer I regularly win fights of me vs 2 or 3 others. The most I've won against is 5 enemies at one time. The same cleansing elementalist or cleanse happy engineer that gives my condi thief such a hard time literally gets obliterated by my engineer in a quick fashion. 

 

Aside from the"dodge" there are also abilities, sigils, whatever, that blind, block, reflect,  cleanse. So it is not a basic L2P issue. It is a L2P smart issue. 

 

Did you know the mesmer has an ability that will transfer 3 conditions to an enemy while stealing 3 boons? I know this because I use it and it works. 1200 range and fairly short cooldown.

 

So maybe the original poster should be referring his/herself as the Kitten. If he/she wants to forgoe defensive abilities and focus on offensive only, that decision is on them and only them.

 

So yah... it isn't a L2P issue

 It is a L2P smart issue. 

[Hotride.2187]

36 minutes ago, Jitters.9401 said:

 So yah... it isn't a L2P issue

 It is a L2P smart issue. 

Ah so I gotta play smart now, while my opponent is doing a pve rotation and their build keeps them up and keeps their condi vomit going. OK dude. Have you considered we should all be playing smart instead of hiding behind stats and boons?

By all means, go tanky if you want. But have the equivalent of power bunker dmg also on condi, and go "glass" like power if you want to do good condi dmg. Instead of deleting everything in seconds once the cleanses run out, despite being a bunker.

Also good for your engi, good to hear someone can delete condi bunkers. Can you share your build so I can give it a go?

Edited April 26, 2022 by Hotride.2187

[Dawdler.8521]

12 hours ago, Catchyfx.5768 said:

EU T1-2(sometimes T3) 18of20 enemies i face are trailblazer/cele just condi. I see power classes only if they have stealth, or insane mobility.

The second sentence completely contradicts the first since that cover 100% of classes one meet.

[Hotride.2187]

44 minutes ago, Dawdler.8521 said:

The second sentence completely contradicts the first since that cover 100% of classes one meet.

Kinda offtopic but if you see 2 power meta builds in 20 roamers (the rest on condi bunkers), there is no contradiction.

IMO its more like 20%-25% roam on power and not 10%, but that is including ganker guilds, duelists and new players who dont know what is good for them.

If you add zerg builds I'm sure power will be the majority (since you got support), at least on fight servers. But small scale is condi bunkering, has been even before the resistance nerf.

Edited April 26, 2022 by Hotride.2187

[Dawdler.8521]

45 minutes ago, Hotride.2187 said:

Kinda offtopic but if you see 2 power meta builds in 20 roamers (the rest on condi bunkers), there is no contradiction.

So you're saying all condi classes have no stealth and no mobility?

[Hotride.2187]

37 minutes ago, Dawdler.8521 said:

So you're saying all condi classes have no stealth and no mobility?

For bunkers its not a requirement. Cele weaver, cele renegade, cele fb, trailblazer core necro, have neither (at most you got like 1 port). But the rest have one or both, yeah. Usually stealth, only cele scrapper having "insane mobility" (maybe also cele specter).

I assume what the 18/20 refers to is condi bunker stats, not to having no access to stealth or high mobility. The power part was likely to emphasize the tools power builds have for 1vx, stealth and mobility. If you dont have those tools you are herald or reaper and you must outskill players by a lot to win 1vx (and you are on average gank fodder). Or a new player.

Edited April 26, 2022 by Hotride.2187

[Jitters.9401]

2 hours ago, Hotride.2187 said:

Ah so I gotta play smart now

That pretty much tells me your attitude. .  It is up to you to adapt not expect the game to change for you.

 

I used to run d/d  d/d  with little stealth because I enjoyed the close quarter combat. Suddenly I started seeing a lot more rangers and deadeyes with range my dual daggers of course couldn't match. So I switch it up now. Sometimes p/d d/d with scorpion wire. Or d/d  d/d with scorpion wire just so I can time a pull and get that ranged opponent into melee range and I win. Quite often they flee which is also a win by TKO.

 

I've lost 1 fight in what... 3 months. It was to a condi harbinger that took me by surprise and he just barely won. I changed my skills to what I prefer to use fighting a condition build, went back, and obliterated the guy and I had about 80% of my hitpoints left.

 

As for my engineer. I run assassin gear for the critical.

Run grenades/alchemy/scrapper.  On the nade trait line, last row make sure to take "explosive entrance refresh on dodge". You also get a free blind every dodge. Weapon has sigil of cleansing. That is my only condi removal tool. Use F3 to block missiles the moment you enter combat because that is when they will use their most devastating ranged condi attacks. 

Use bulwark for the barrier and shredder. Make sure you are traited for the larger wells radius. Shredder is amazing when fighting multiple people.

 

And barrage... the F2 skill.  Ho ho ho... the damage is insane. 

 

Sigil of endurance is your second sigil. Always swap between nades and whatever your weapon is. I prefer the rifle. Every dodge (and you don't need to actually evade anything) gives you a free 3 second blind with the additional attack

 

I've totally erased many a condi spec from the proverbial GW2 gene pool and I've easily destroyed enemies that gave my condi thief a hard time.