Open-world Bosses insta-dying is not fun game

[Kromie.8930]

Why does the open-world content that doesnt require much understanding of how the game is intented to play (like spamming 1 skill gets the win) feel more rewarding (with currency and materials) than end game content with some level of difficulty? Is it because it is in the best interests of the party members to communicate effectively and this is not needed in most open world content? I feel like open world can feel very anti-social most of times so I dont enjoy it as much as other content. Where as in instanced content or wvw for example the community feels active and communicates more for the most part. So since I am trying to craft a Legendary Hammer I feel like I am forced to do open world to get gold. And it isn't that fun for me.  Any thoughts?

[Erise.5614]

This is due to the combat design creating massive differences between optimized builds and average builds. Significantly larger than in most other MMOs. Even if they have vertical progression instead of horizontal.

Meaning content either has to be built around relatively low DPS output or won't be completed the majority of the time. OW challenges should therefore aim at secondary aspects providing variety in gameplay and having players use different mechanics that are less related to combat performance.

How successful they are at that is a different question. 

But you can find quite a bit of socialization if you engage in map chat. Especially certain metas are really prone to an active chat and similar sets of people being around often. While also leaving time to chat. Providing plenty of opportunity to make it an enjoyable and social experience. 

At least in my personal experience, much more so than raids, fractals and other more challenging. Which have a quick chat at the beginning, followed by almost complete silence in chat until the content has been cleared or mistakes / wipes happened. 

Liquid gold rewards vs account value rewards is a bigger topic in general and rewards also changed over time as value of items changed while ANet never updated them. Plenty of things that would deserve an update. 

With a decent group you can get very competitive gold per hour in raids and fractals though. It's not infinitely farmable but makes for a good ~9-10 hours a week you can spend farming in that kind of end game content getting 20g-30g per hour. 

Edited April 28, 2022 by Erise.5614

[Farohna.6247]

Many open world favoring players might ask why are they forced to play instanced content or pvp/WvW.  Just because that's the way it is lol.  

[Leo.5693]

Apart from Strikes which give atrocious reward, Fractal is still much higher gph than Openworld.

Raid also gives higher gph, but the problem is the downtime when you have to have 10 players start, fight and finish together. Pet and kid aggro is the gph loss. I don't even know why people take so long to ready-check.

So it's really up to you how you wanna play the game. If you wanna chill easy-going farm, openworld is rewarding. If you want high-end high-speed high-dps farm, go for Fractal 42.

As for raids, idk man, can't put a gold value on lege armor and trinkets. I'm grateful to have done Raids for those priceless QoL, but I have no purpose or passion for the content after getting them.

Edited April 30, 2022 by Pizzous.4783

[Zok.4956]

On 4/28/2022 at 11:20 PM, Kromie.8930 said:

Why does the open-world content (...) feel more rewarding (with currency and materials) than end game content with some level of difficulty?

Open-world content in level 80-zones is also endgame content. I don't know why open-world content feels more rewarding to you, but fractals and raids usually give better gold/material rewards.

The highest "gold per hour" from playing the game can be achieved by playing the "trading-post-game" with building/selling/buying/flipping items.

You also can buy gems with real money and convert gems to gold. Even at minimal wage in most western countries this is the fastest allowed way to get the most "gold per hour". Buying gems with real money is, besides selling expansions every few years, the only way Anet makes money.

 

Edited April 30, 2022 by Zok.4956

[TheWaternymphHC.1847]

13 minutes ago, Zok.4956 said:

The highest "gold per hour" from playing the game can be achieved by playing the "trading-post-game" with building/selling/buying/flipping items.

Multi-accounting has probably the best gold per hour rate, if your PC and internet connection is fast enough. It's easily 120g to 150g per hour for me.

Flipping items in GW2 is fairly tedious to be honest. Since the game usually reaches a market equilibrium rather fast once someone spots a niche, it can be quite a gamble as well. Unless you are willing to wait a long time for big returns and have large sums of gold tied up at the TP, multi-accounting seems preferable. Especially since a lot of the TP fans often don't count the actual time involved but the time it takes to walk to the TP and get the gold.

[Dante.1508]

What the heck do people do to make 150g an hour.. And it must be hugely tedious.

[Erise.5614]

2 minutes ago, Dante.1508 said:

What the heck do people do to make 150g an hour.. And it must be hugely tedious.

They mentioned it. Multi accounting. You hop onto your second account, collect the daily reward and log off. Since it's limited by real world time it's insane gold per hour of "gameplay" but still accumulating rather slowly. 

[Fuchslein.8639]

Yeah, the reward-difference is crazy. And at the same time, there are people who whine that its not enough and that content xy should not have xy rewards...

I enjoy GW2. I enjoy the hard content, but also the braindead OW-content, but some rewards really need a a little peak upwards. I see the comment "this content is dead, so devs should not waste time with it" every now and then, but even there are few people who play just for the playing itself, most people play because of rewards.
This show's perfectly in the events who get played the most and how Player moveed in the past from events to other events, which had better rewards. No content can just live from love and air ...

[Erise.5614]

23 minutes ago, Fuchslein.8639 said:

Yeah, the reward-difference is crazy. And at the same time, there are people who whine that its not enough and that content xy should not have xy rewards...

I enjoy GW2. I enjoy the hard content, but also the braindead OW-content, but some rewards really need a a little peak upwards. I see the comment "this content is dead, so devs should not waste time with it" every now and then, but even there are few people who play just for the playing itself, most people play because of rewards.
This show's perfectly in the events who get played the most and how Player moveed in the past from events to other events, which had better rewards. No content can just live from love and air ...

That's true but leaving out an important aspect.
Obviously content with zero rewards is gonna be dropped in favor of alternatives.

But player decisions for what content to play is a mix of player interest in the content and rewards for engaging with it.

For example, Chak is still played and very much not worth it in terms of gold per hour. Doing the event is like 10 gold per hour (or in other words, around 3 gold for the first clear per day). Even if you account for an infusion drop that's not competitive gold per hour. If fact, it's worse than gold optimized WvW rewards. It just fits nicely into a chain of metas and is enjoyable enough to do that instead of taking a break or doing anything else.

If participation drops there comes a point where it's not just low rewards that are a problem but likely also the content being sub par compared to other available options. Just like increasing rewards can bring back enjoyable content. 

But overrewarding content that isn't enjoyed by too many is either not going to improve the situation or will have negative consequences as people burn out at a significantly faster rate from playing the game in ways they don't enjoy. 

Edited April 30, 2022 by Erise.5614

[TheWaternymphHC.1847]

2 hours ago, Erise.5614 said:

They mentioned it. Multi accounting. You hop onto your second account, collect the daily reward and log off. Since it's limited by real world time it's insane gold per hour of "gameplay" but still accumulating rather slowly. 

For my account setup, a complete cycle of the login reward takes about 40 - 45 seconds from clicking on the GW2 icon until I hit the exit button in-game. It takes a bit longer on days I empty that character's bags, convert laurels to T3/T4 mats and dump all of it into my guild bank. Averaged over a year, it's still only about ~70 seconds per day per non-EoD alt-account. Parking a character in Rata Sum is also the quickest location for all of this, although you should park another alt in Lion's Arch for the mystic forge daily that happens roughly every 3 weeks at the moment.

EoD accounts take both more time daily and to set them up initially, but they still reward 3x - 4x the amount of gold per day on average.

Considering that you can log into multiple accounts at the same time, you can also cut down your wait time during login screens. Only drawback is that you have to change your IP address roughly every 25 logins or the flood protection of the login-server slows you down too much. 

If you need some additional gold quickly, you can also gather valuable stuff in your home instance or craft certain items on alt-accounts, although this brings down your rate to something like 30g - 40g per hour depending on TP prices.

Edited April 30, 2022 by TheWaternymphHC.1847

[TheWaternymphHC.1847]

1 hour ago, Erise.5614 said:

If participation drops there comes a point where it's not just low rewards that are a problem but likely also the content being sub par compared to other available options. Just like increasing rewards can bring back enjoyable content. 

But overrewarding content that isn't enjoyed by too many is either not going to improve the situation or will have negative consequences as people burn out at a significantly faster rate from playing the game in ways they don't enjoy. 

I think the Dragon's End meta is a great example that you can't turn something dull that is pretty much only needed a few times per account for certain achievements into a regular and popular event by adding valuable rewards. Even if the difficulty of that event would be tuned down a lot more than it already was, I doubt it would attract many more people doing it regularly.

[Fuchslein.8639]

1 hour ago, Erise.5614 said:

That's true but leaving out an important aspect.
Obviously content with zero rewards is gonna be dropped in favor of alternatives.

But player decisions for what content to play is a mix of player interest in the content and rewards for engaging with it.

For example, Chak is still played and very much not worth it in terms of gold per hour. Doing the event is like 10 gold per hour (or in other words, around 3 gold for the first clear per day). Even if you account for an infusion drop that's not competitive gold per hour. If fact, it's worse than gold optimized WvW rewards. It just fits nicely into a chain of metas and is enjoyable enough to do that instead of taking a break or doing anything else.

If participation drops there comes a point where it's not just low rewards that are a problem but likely also the content being sub par compared to other available options. Just like increasing rewards can bring back enjoyable content. 

But overrewarding content that isn't enjoyed by too many is either not going to improve the situation or will have negative consequences as people burn out at a significantly faster rate from playing the game in ways they don't enjoy. 

Sorry, but i really don't like this gold-per-hour sheme. Yeah, chak got played even, how you say, the gph is bad. BUT, chack has it's infusion and the Event don't takes much time. You drop in, you kill the boss, you drop out.

In Wvw for example, you have to play a long time to even get to the good rewards. You can do fractals-daily only once a day. And Raids even just once a week and the frustrating thing is, you reach your magnetit-cap within a few bosses, even when you have a perfect clear. So what would be the point of playing more than needed for most people who do not live in GW2?
So how does this type of content even count into the gph-sheme? How do you measure something that is restricted compared to OW which you can actually play for hours and get rewards for hour's?

And i don't talk about overrewarding, i don't know where you see this. I talk about fair rewards. Steady, fair rewards.

"But overrewarding content that isn't enjoyed by too many is either not going to improve the situation or will have negative consequences as people burn out at a significantly faster rate from playing the game in ways they don't enjoy. "

And what does this mean? When you don't enjoy something, just don't do it. This dosn't mean, anet can't reward this part fairly just because you personaly don't enjoy this content ...

Edited April 30, 2022 by Fuchslein.8639

[Khisanth.2948]

6 minutes ago, Fuchslein.8639 said:

You drop in, you kill the boss, you drop out.

You also have to hang around for the rest of the rewards. A bit similar to WvW. Both VB and TD metas suffer from that problem.

[Erise.5614]

3 hours ago, Fuchslein.8639 said:

Sorry, but i really don't like this gold-per-hour sheme. Yeah, chak got played even, how you say, the gph is bad. BUT, chack has it's infusion and the Event don't takes much time. You drop in, you kill the boss, you drop out.

In Wvw for example, you have to play a long time to even get to the good rewards. You can do fractals-daily only once a day. And Raids even just once a week and the frustrating thing is, you reach your magnetit-cap within a few bosses, even when you have a perfect clear. So what would be the point of playing more than needed for most people who do not live in GW2?
So how does this type of content even count into the gph-sheme? How do you measure something that is restricted compared to OW which you can actually play for hours and get rewards for hour's?

You calculate it as usual by how much gold it rewards per hour. It's a way to compare rewards. Not factor in every single detail. 

But both raids and fractals have very competitive gold per hour. If you wanna keep going with raids, the often mentioned raid selling is a thing with even significantly better gold per hour! T4 dailies, recs & CMs give excellent gold but there's several fractals you can farm infinitely for >20g per hour. 

WvW is at about half that which is a lot less. Though, that's not counting the free stat selectable armor you get. The cheapest and fastest way to get non tradable runes and sigils. An exclusive QoL reward (commander tag). It could do with more rewards but frankly, most of the reward structure ought to be overhauled. I consider both the pip system, reward tracks and the current level system to be suboptimal. Encouraging and rewarding non ideal behavior. It could really benefit from changing it more fundamentally and in that process increasing rewards for more active gameplay significantly. 

Also, just to mention that in regards to PvE clearing. You are talking about a problem that comes into existence after ~15 hours a week, assuming excellent clearing times and no second spend on grouping up or other social aspects. That's already quite a lot.

Edit: I'm not sure how many people have this problem. Strikes should get better rewards. Especially the CMs. Which would probably up the duration to 17-18h per week. It might be interesting to support farming further if a significant amount of players struggle with that (in statistics, significant = 5%) but if not it may not be worth the effort to design deliberately around a small audience. 

3 hours ago, Fuchslein.8639 said:

And i don't talk about overrewarding, i don't know where you see this. I talk about fair rewards. Steady, fair rewards.
 

"But overrewarding content that isn't enjoyed by too many is either not going to improve the situation or will have negative consequences as people burn out at a significantly faster rate from playing the game in ways they don't enjoy. "

And what does this mean? When you don't enjoy something, just don't do it. This dosn't mean, anet can't reward this part fairly just because you personaly don't enjoy this content ...

That was only as example for why simply adding rewards to help content isn't a solution. There's negative consequences to increasing rewards too. Not if it's increased from very little to ok. Obviously. That's not overrewarding. 

Again. The main point of my entire comment was that reward is not directly proportional to participation rate. It's indirectly related. Sure. But it's not as simple as "increase reward" = "more player participate long term". 

You touch on some valid points but oversimplify it a bit in the process. 

Edited April 30, 2022 by Erise.5614

[Fuchslein.8639]

1 hour ago, Erise.5614 said:

You calculate it as usual by how much gold it rewards per hour. It's a way to compare rewards. Not factor in every single detail. 

But both raids and fractals have very competitive gold per hour. If you wanna keep going with raids, the often mentioned raid selling is a thing with even significantly better gold per hour! T4 dailies, recs & CMs give excellent gold but there's several fractals you can farm infinitely for >20g per hour. 

WvW is at about half that which is a lot less. Though, that's not counting the free stat selectable armor you get. The cheapest and fastest way to get non tradable runes and sigils. An exclusive QoL reward (commander tag). It could do with more rewards but frankly, most of the reward structure ought to be overhauled. I consider both the pip system, reward tracks and the current level system to be suboptimal. Encouraging and rewarding non ideal behavior. It could really benefit from changing it more fundamentally and in that process increasing rewards for more active gameplay significantly. 

Also, just to mention that in regards to PvE clearing. You are talking about a problem that comes into existence after ~15 hours a week, assuming excellent clearing times and no second spend on grouping up or other social aspects. That's already quite a lot.

Edit: I'm not sure how many people have this problem. Strikes should get better rewards. Especially the CMs. Which would probably up the duration to 17-18h per week. It might be interesting to support farming further if a significant amount of players struggle with that (in statistics, significant = 5%) but if not it may not be worth the effort to design deliberately around a small audience. 

That was only as example for why simply adding rewards to help content isn't a solution. There's negative consequences to increasing rewards too. Not if it's increased from very little to ok. Obviously. That's not overrewarding. 

Again. The main point of my entire comment was that reward is not directly proportional to participation rate. It's indirectly related. Sure. But it's not as simple as "increase reward" = "more player participate long term". 

You touch on some valid points but oversimplify it a bit in the process. 

Where did i talk about "more player participate long term"? Just because there is niche-content, dosn't mean this content is worth nothing.
Also your points about selling clears and stuff, okay?

For me personally, adding better rewards is a simple solution, yes. It dosn't have to be as good as say, drizzlewood or stuff, but it should make sense and should be fair for the content what is played. And i knew this would come, but long-term rewards like legy's are not the stuff i personally am talking about. Because that would mean, when you have this stuff, you have no further reason to participate whatsoever in said content.

But it seems, at least for some forum-user, even a nice reward for playing something, espsecially harder content, is asking to much.

Edited April 30, 2022 by Fuchslein.8639

[Dante.1508]

11 hours ago, Erise.5614 said:

They mentioned it. Multi accounting. You hop onto your second account, collect the daily reward and log off. Since it's limited by real world time it's insane gold per hour of "gameplay" but still accumulating rather slowly. 

Do people actually waste their lives doing dailies daily?

9 hours ago, TheWaternymphHC.1847 said:

For my account setup, a complete cycle of the login reward takes about 40 - 45 seconds from clicking on the GW2 icon until I hit the exit button in-game. It takes a bit longer on days I empty that character's bags, convert laurels to T3/T4 mats and dump all of it into my guild bank. Averaged over a year, it's still only about ~70 seconds per day per non-EoD alt-account. Parking a character in Rata Sum is also the quickest location for all of this, although you should park another alt in Lion's Arch for the mystic forge daily that happens roughly every 3 weeks at the moment.

EoD accounts take both more time daily and to set them up initially, but they still reward 3x - 4x the amount of gold per day on average.

Considering that you can log into multiple accounts at the same time, you can also cut down your wait time during login screens. Only drawback is that you have to change your IP address roughly every 25 logins or the flood protection of the login-server slows you down too much. 

If you need some additional gold quickly, you can also gather valuable stuff in your home instance or craft certain items on alt-accounts, although this brings down your rate to something like 30g - 40g per hour depending on TP prices.

I think you are over estimating what other players have.. Like i've never pvp'd and i'm level 11 in wvw.. also i have like 8 nodes in my home instance and most are useless..

I have only 1 account with 28 characters..

Edited May 1, 2022 by Dante.1508

[Firebeard.1746]

On 4/28/2022 at 2:20 PM, Kromie.8930 said:

Why does the open-world content that doesnt require much understanding of how the game is intented to play (like spamming 1 skill gets the win) feel more rewarding (with currency and materials) than end game content with some level of difficulty? Is it because it is in the best interests of the party members to communicate effectively and this is not needed in most open world content? I feel like open world can feel very anti-social most of times so I dont enjoy it as much as other content. Where as in instanced content or wvw for example the community feels active and communicates more for the most part. So since I am trying to craft a Legendary Hammer I feel like I am forced to do open world to get gold. And it isn't that fun for me.  Any thoughts?

There's literally 0 reason to OW for a hammer. Fractals will give all the gold you need. Just buy off ah. Or buy the mats. 

Edited May 1, 2022 by Firebeard.1746

[Blood Red Arachnid.2493]

1 hour ago, Dante.1508 said:

Do people actually waste their lives doing dailies daily?

They use an add-on to help them switch accounts quickly.  The whales for this game are buying multiple accounts and jumping between them to harvest the dailies. 

[Dante.1508]

49 minutes ago, Blood Red Arachnid.2493 said:

They use an add-on to help them switch accounts quickly.  The whales for this game are buying multiple accounts and jumping between them to harvest the dailies. 

Is that even in game legit legal? or is it more akin to botting and hacking.

Edited May 1, 2022 by Dante.1508

[TheWaternymphHC.1847]

2 hours ago, Dante.1508 said:

Do people actually waste their lives doing dailies daily?

12 hours ago, TheWaternymphHC.1847 said:

Just out of curiosity, how much money do you spend on GW2 per month and how much time do you spend on farming "stuff" compared to doing "fun" activities in GW2? Keep in mind that what one might find enjoyable, might seem tedious for someone else and vice versa.

2 hours ago, Dante.1508 said:

also i have like 8 nodes in my home instance and most are useless..

To keep the gph-rate high, one would typically only need to harvest the four cloth & leather racks plus two to five mining nodes depending on the level of the alt character. Since EoD hit you'd also harvest kale or strawberries depending on what is currently more expensive.

Personally I never understood why people fill up their home instances with nodes that are useless just to have them. Worst offender has been the basic mining node pack before EoD was released. Without discount one would have had to mine those nodes for ~51 years to make the gold for the gems back, since Eod is out, it "only" takes 20ish years now.  

25 minutes ago, Dante.1508 said:

Is that even in game legit legal? or is it more aking to botting and hacking.

Launchers are tolerated by Anet for years now. Not to mention that a good password manager to quickly copy & paste login data isn't that slow either if you don't want to launch concurrent instances of the game. 

To be completely honest, the launchers that are available nowadays are less "hacky" than most of the tolerated addons like dps meters, DX12/Vulkan wrappers or certain auto-clickers.

Launchers pretty much just generate a virtual folder structure one could create manually and maintain it through client updates which is quite tedious to do manually.

Multi-Accounting and to a degree even multi-boxing (without input duplication and only in PvE) is within the terms of the EULA/ToS of GW2. However it's always fun to see people on the forums try to paint anyone who does any of these things as cheaters.

Funnily enough someone on reddit claimed that a commercial botting service for GW2 shut down end of last year, around the time Anet flooded the market with cheap heroic license keys via various promotions and the six week long sale of PoF.

Edited May 1, 2022 by TheWaternymphHC.1847

[Dante.1508]

1 hour ago, TheWaternymphHC.1847 said:

Just out of curiosity, how much money do you spend on GW2 per month and how much time do you spend on farming "stuff" compared to doing "fun" activities in GW2? Keep in mind that what one might find enjoyable, might seem tedious for someone else and vice versa.

To keep the gph-rate high, one would typically only need to harvest the four cloth & leather racks plus two to five mining nodes depending on the level of the alt character. Since EoD hit you'd also harvest kale or strawberries depending on what is currently more expensive.

Personally I never understood why people fill up their home instances with nodes that are useless just to have them. Worst offender has been the basic mining node pack before EoD was released. Without discount one would have had to mine those nodes for ~51 years to make the gold for the gems back, since Eod is out, it "only" takes 20ish years now.  

Launchers are tolerated by Anet for years now. Not to mention that a good password manager to quickly copy & paste login data isn't that slow either if you don't want to launch concurrent instances of the game. 

To be completely honest, the launchers that are available nowadays are less "hacky" than most of the tolerated addons like dps meters, DX12/Vulkan wrappers or certain auto-clickers.

Launchers pretty much just generate a virtual folder structure one could create manually and maintain it through client updates which is quite tedious to do manually.

Multi-Accounting and to a degree even multi-boxing (without input duplication and only in PvE) is within the terms of the EULA/ToS of GW2. However it's always fun to see people on the forums try to paint anyone who does any of these things as cheaters.

Funnily enough someone on reddit claimed that a commercial botting service for GW2 shut down end of last year, around the time Anet flooded the market with cheap heroic license keys via various promotions and the six week long sale of PoF.

Interesting thanks.

I spend about $300 AU on GW2 a month but it fluctuates up and down.

Edited May 1, 2022 by Dante.1508

[Erise.5614]

9 hours ago, Fuchslein.8639 said:

Where did i talk about "more player participate long term"? Just because there is niche-content, dosn't mean this content is worth nothing.
Also your points about selling clears and stuff, okay?

For me personally, adding better rewards is a simple solution, yes. It dosn't have to be as good as say, drizzlewood or stuff, but it should make sense and should be fair for the content what is played. And i knew this would come, but long-term rewards like legy's are not the stuff i personally am talking about. Because that would mean, when you have this stuff, you have no further reason to participate whatsoever in said content.

But it seems, at least for some forum-user, even a nice reward for playing something, espsecially harder content, is asking to much.

To preface this. Everything I talk about is in the context of the health of the game. The primary thing to optimize for is long term player retention. Or, in other words, making sure as many people as possible enjoy the game for as long as possible.

If a change doesn't significantly increase participation or keeps players playing the game for longer (not in "hours per day" or "hours per week" but in "how many weeks did they log in per year"). If a change doesn't improve on either of those things it's probably best to be a pet project of a volunteer at ANet. But not an actual priority. 

The challenge is, you never know. Nothing ANet implements is certain to have a specific effect. So even they have to go by a lot of assumptions. And we don't even have the existent data. I'm just pointing that out because that means all views, requests and suggestions on the forums are gonna be about personal preferences rather than facts. Very much including mine. 

With that as base line. Let me respond to the specific points. First of all, you have to realize that a lot of the gold per hour calculations depend on extremely optimized gameplay. Drizzlewood North, Drizzlewood South and Dragonfall have insane values (over 30g per hour) because they calculate with 20 minutes to complete the entire event chain, hop into a new map and do the same again with absolutely no downtime or delays. But it's unlikely either of us will ever experience that unless you deliberately search for a hardcore OW guild. If you spend the more normal 1.5 hours for a Drizzlewood clear then your reward is somewhere around 10-13 gold per hour. Assuming the same efficiency you can do a HoT raid full clear in 2-2.5 hours. Which rewards you with around 50 gold or 23-25 gold per hour. You probably won't ever reach that. But it's possible. Which is what gold per hour compares. Theoretical maximums to make content more comparable. And it's not even counting magnetite shards or the subjective value of raid exclusive / semi exclusive rewards like legendary armor or portal device. Nor the incredibly cheap access to legendary equipment.

Harder PvE content is, at least mathematically, competitive with any OW farm. So the talk about increasing rewards is mostly about perceiving it as harder, as more effort and wanting rewards that reflect this increase. Though you have to acknowledge that this is a subjective topic. And if it's only argued from this perspective rather than framing it in the context of improving the games health, it's really not a strong point. There are valid arguments for increases. But the point of "it's low" by itself is not entirely valid. There's truth to many feeling like it's unrewarding and that non perfect clears are less rewarding than suboptimal OW farm. 

But the real question is. What do raid players consider fair? 50% more? 100% more? If you double current rewards efficient players would be able to draw 50 gold per hour. Nothing except gambling provides returns like that. Not even in a similar ballpark. And what about all the exclusive rewards? OW has a few basic skins and stuff that's only relevant in OW. All rewards gained are liquid gold. Exclusive QoL has value too that needs to be factored in. That increases efficiency, decreases cost elsewhere, etc. 
Further increasing liquid rewards would have to correlate with reduction or removal of such privileges. Which might harm adoption rate of the content. Or we do actually run into the risk of the content being overrewarding. 

Edited May 1, 2022 by Erise.5614

[TheQuickFox.3826]

Most open world bosses are fine, but the Fire Elemental and the Great Jungle Wurm could use better scaling as they die in seconds with a large group.

[Kromie.8930]

11 hours ago, Firebeard.1746 said:

There's literally 0 reason to OW for a hammer. Fractals will give all the gold you need. Just buy off ah. Or buy the mats. 

I don't care much for fractals. I have done only t1 because AR infusions are annoying. I haven't gotten into raids because haven't found a group for them.  I mainly WvW and do strikes occasionally with Guildees and that's fine for me. I enjoy that content.  But besides ascended rings and occasional ascended armor choice drops (none that a viable for my builds),  the rewards suck. MoB are a grind as well. Haven't even got Leg WvW armor yet. Finally have Juggernaut but had to sink real money to buy gold. I get that ANet makes money this way but I already spend enough real money on other things like skins and convenience items.  And there was a lot I had to do in OW for it like world completion for Gift of Exploration. 

Edited May 1, 2022 by Kromie.8930