Should duos be removed or paused to shake things up?

[Gundam Style.8495]

Remove duos for a while and if successful, permanently. But remove them for everyone, and not just a rating threshold.

[Khalisto.5780]

duos make exploits easier, q dodging and wintrading have been carrying players that would struggle to stay plat 2 to rank 1 and even gold 2 players to top 10.

 

maybe ppl still manage to exploit due to very low pop, but it'll be harder

Edited April 29, 2022 by Khalisto.5780

[Shaogin.2679]

33 minutes ago, Khalisto.5780 said:

duos make exploits easier, q dodging and wintrading have been carrying players that would struggle to stay plat 2 to rank 1 and even gold 2 players to top 10.

 

maybe ppl still manage to exploit due to very low pop, but it'll be harder

Solo Queue is what makes those exploits possible at all. No one would willingly take someone on their team that is going to throw the match.

[Khalisto.5780]

22 minutes ago, Shaogin.2679 said:

Solo Queue is what makes those exploits possible at all. No one would willingly take someone on their team that is going to throw the match.

show me more solo q games where this kind of exploits happen, also show me a game where it's team q only, if that's what you suggesting

[Shaogin.2679]

2 minutes ago, Khalisto.5780 said:

show me more solo q games where this kind of exploits happen, also show me a game where it's team q only, if that's what you suggesting

I do not play a bunch of games right now and I'm definitely not about to research every game just because you want to deny all logic.

 

We are talking about this game right here. In this game, the only way that bots, trolls, afk farmers, and match throwers are able to play at all is because the players are unable to choose their team. They are able to exist because there is no team queue and Anet forces legitimate players to team up with them. If that bothers you then whatever, but those are facts. 

[Rider.6024]

personally I would like a 4th option, "no, but add a seperate ranked solo q"

 

increasing the rate/amount of automated tournaments would probably be another idea worth testing simultaneously 

[Shaogin.2679]

9 minutes ago, Rider.6024 said:

increasing the rate/amount of automated tournaments would probably be another idea worth testing simultaneously

This I would like to see. Automated tournaments are some of the most fun I've had in this game.

[Gladiotor.7561]

I dont mind playing only unranked as long as i can play with my friend(s) or relatives but i want the same rewards as ranked then(pips).

Otherwise me and some other people would surely leave pvp. Whether i queue alone or with friends i have the same rating, im just gold 2-3. Not everyone abuses the system, we just want to have some fun together and enjoy the rewards. 

Or if unranked wont get pips, how about only solo queue once you reach a certain rating? Lets say gold 3 or plat 1 for instance?  Would that help? Or no duo if your rating difference exceeds 100? Just thinking here

[Eddbopkins.2630]

Here's an idea, 3 man party for a 3v3 game. Why not. Team coordination is always the best strategy.

[Trevor Boyer.6524]

Solo or Duo doesn't matter.

The problems you experience with bad match making is largely due to people win trading with either their own bots or friends.

People will still win trade regardless of Solo or Duo queue.

It literally "does not matter at all".

[Khalisto.5780]

we can have group qs 

 

with different titles

 

wintrader of the arena

q dodger of the arena

alt accounter of the arena

multiboxer of the arena

 

feelsfairman

[Gundam Style.8495]

24 minutes ago, Trevor Boyer.6524 said:

Solo or Duo doesn't matter.

The problems you experience with bad match making is largely due to people win trading with either their own bots or friends.

People will still win trade regardless of Solo or Duo queue.

It literally "does not matter at all".

 

Maybe, but a short "test" for a few season could confirm or deny your hypothesis.

Edited April 29, 2022 by Gundam Style.8495

[Multicolorhipster.9751]

On 4/29/2022 at 12:06 PM, Gundam Style.8495 said:

 

Maybe, but a short "test" for a few season could confirm or deny your hypothesis.

We already had it. Seasons 9-13 were SoloQ only(At Plat2+). That was ~1 year of testing.

 

The result were exactly what you would expect. There was less match manipulation, everyone on the leaderboard was ranked much more closely together, and Legendary ranking became even more of a rarity.

 

So long as SoloQ players continue to be matched with and against coordinated teams, it will always be incredibly easy for DuoQs to use that to metagame and control the matchmaking to their own liking, and with minimal effort.

Even some of the pros in the most infamous of wintrader cartels have acknowledged this by now as they've grown bored after years of doing it over and over and over again.

Edited April 30, 2022 by Multicolorhipster.9751

[TheDarkness.6947]

On 4/29/2022 at 12:42 PM, Trevor Boyer.6524 said:

It literally "does not matter at all".

Much like our votes in this thread.

[Trevor Boyer.6524]

2 hours ago, Multicolorhipster.9751 said:

We already had it. Seasons 9-13 were SoloQ only(At Plat2+). That was ~1 year of testing.

 

The result were exactly what you would expect. There was less match manipulation,

That's because that was like 4 or 5 years ago, when the population was triple to quadruple what it is now, so it was easier to avoid win traders in general due to this, as well as the fact that this era back then was BEFORE the cat out of the bag publicly about how to win trade, before average Joes started doing it. It was also loooong before the big bot boom when people started win trading by themselves with multi-windows and bot keys. And if I am correct, it was also before f2p accounts or at least before people realized how exploitive it was to use f2p to flood the leaderboards with alts.

I know you want to advocate this solo thing so so so hard and you have for a long time now, but it will make no difference. And for the sake of you seeing with your own eyes that it will make no difference and the same people will still be taking the same positions every season, I sincerely hope that they do bring back just solo queue.

By the end of that first season of solo queue when nothing changes with match quality, you'll see that the only way to get any relatively good match making in this game, is with 5 man queues where you can block PUG throws & bots from landing in your teams.

If you went out of your way at all to play even a single AT with even a g3-p1 group, you would immediately agree with me.

Edited May 1, 2022 by Trevor Boyer.6524

[Multicolorhipster.9751]

3 hours ago, Trevor Boyer.6524 said:

That's because that was like 4 or 5 years ago, when the population was triple to quadruple what it is now, so it was easier to avoid win traders in general due to this, as well as the fact that this era back then was BEFORE the cat out of the bag publicly about how to win trade, before average Joes started doing it. It was also loooong before the big bot boom when people started win trading by themselves with multi-windows and bot keys. And if I am correct, it was also before f2p accounts or at least before people realized how exploitive it was to use f2p to flood the leaderboards with alts.

They did that well before and immediately after season 9.

They figured that out as soon as the game went f2p. Anyone probably could have prepared for that even in preparation for the game going f2p. And the really committed wintraders already had paid alt accounts anyway.

Seasons 9-13 were the grace periods because they were SoloQ and SoloQ makes it hard for them to game the matchmaker. The proof is in the pudding!

3 hours ago, Trevor Boyer.6524 said:

I know you want to advocate this solo thing so so so hard and you have for a long time now, but it will make no difference. And for the sake of you seeing with your own eyes that it will make no difference and the same people will still be taking the same positions every season, I sincerely hope that they do bring back just solo queue.

I love you and i'm going to keep loving you, but I have to stay true and loyal to this cause for integrity's sake.

I'm driven by nothing but my need to justify my 10,053 hours played to myself, and that purpose is fueled by personal experience with SoloQ being pretty fun I guess.

3 hours ago, Trevor Boyer.6524 said:

By the end of that first season of solo queue when nothing changes with match quality, you'll see that the only way to get any relatively good match making in this game, is with 5 man queues where you can block PUG throws & bots from landing in your teams.

If you went out of your way at all to play even a single AT with even a g3-p1 group, you would immediately agree with me.

I've played a few ATs

They are okay, but I only found them fun when playing with 4 other people that I knew.

 

Everything is more fun with friends and people you know though. If I ever want to do that again, I can do that in ATs where I did it the first time.

Then if I can't get the lads together one night, I can go to Ranked to test myself in some quick SoloQ games in an experience entirely different to the aforementioned ATs- Oh wait, no I can't do that. 

 🧑‍🤝‍🧑😡👉🚪

[Zagerus.8675]

Would be interesting to see how SoloQ plays out for a season with PvP in it's current form. Last season it felt like there was a good mix of every type of role and teams were at least semi-functional role wise a good portion of the time even among 5 soloq's. And despite being soloQ most of my teams were working hard to play together and mesh. I vote yes to implement soloQ for a season and see what happens!

[Aktium.9506]

8 hours ago, Trevor Boyer.6524 said:

when the population was triple to quadruple what it is now

Was it really in high tiers? More people have unlocked Baron of the Arena than the old Ruthless Legend in statistics

[Trevor Boyer.6524]

6 hours ago, Aktium.9506 said:

Was it really in high tiers? More people have unlocked Baron of the Arena than the old Ruthless Legend in statistics

It only looks that way for a plethora of reasons, but mainly two big reasons:

1. It's easier to notice 50 people with Baron title standing in a pool of 200 players than it is to notice 50 people with Ruthless standing in a pool of 2000 players.
2. The sheer amount of alts that a single player will go out of their way to play into top 100 nowadays is much much larger than what was being done back with Ruthless titles.

[Khalisto.5780]

21 minutes ago, Trevor Boyer.6524 said:

It only looks that way for a plethora of reasons, but mainly two big reasons:

1. It's easier to notice 50 people with Baron title standing in a pool of 200 players than it is to notice 50 people with Ruthless standing in a pool of 2000 players.
2. The sheer amount of alts that a single player will go out of their way to play into top 100 nowadays is much much larger than what was being done back with Ruthless titles.

Barons of arena are the new gold 2, i can count on my fingers how many barons can defy my super powerful gold 3 gameplay

[Aktium.9506]

1 hour ago, Trevor Boyer.6524 said:

It only looks that way for a plethora of reasons, but mainly two big reasons:

1. It's easier to notice 50 people with Baron title standing in a pool of 200 players than it is to notice 50 people with Ruthless standing in a pool of 2000 players.
2. The sheer amount of alts that a single player will go out of their way to play into top 100 nowadays is much much larger than what was being done back with Ruthless titles.

Hm, I was going mostly by the GW2 Efficiency unlock statistics and my own anecdotal experiences floating around those ranks perpetually ever since they reworked ranks. Feels like I'm playing against mostly the exact same 200~ish players on the leaderboards that I was playing against 5 years ago. Pretty much the only times I see new faces are during my placement matches.

[TheDarkness.6947]

Question.  I typically solo Q, but I was able to duo Q with a friend for a small handful of matches last season.  One thing I noticed when duoQ is that the summary screens after the match showed for both teams which players were duo Q’d.  I’ve never seen this when solo Q’d or at least I’ve never noticed it.  Does it only show who was duo Q’d when you are also duo Q’d?

[Bazsi.2734]

We did this once already, you couldn't duoQ above 1600. Then we just went back to what we have now, for reasons I cannot comprehend. As a low plat/high gold player, it's already bad enough experience to be put against a top player. So letting those players face top player premades is even worse.
Your average player won't ever get on the leaderboard because it's only the top 250. If they stick around regardless, they will have to face players way above them in rating from time to time. Allowing said players to even premade makes for insanely onesided stomps. Those 80-90% winrates at the very top are farmed on average players, not within the top 50.

"bUt i WaNt tO pLaY WiTh FrIeNdS" -  yes we know. Very convincing and sound argument. It's not that you'd want easymode ranked farming, or making q-dodgeing each other at the top easier(which is basicly wintrading)... you are just an innocent, pure hearthed top player who wan't to have spend time with his/her dear friends. 
 

Unless they change some stuff, sPvP will remain an irrelevant gamemode. IMO one of the most important things would be to do away with duoQ.

[Khalisto.5780]

11 minutes ago, Bazsi.2734 said:

We did this once already, you couldn't duoQ above 1600. Then we just went back to what we have now, for reasons I cannot comprehend. As a low plat/high gold player, it's already bad enough experience to be put against a top player. So letting those players face top player premades is even worse.
Your average player won't ever get on the leaderboard because it's only the top 250. If they stick around regardless, they will have to face players way above them in rating from time to time. Allowing said players to even premade makes for insanely onesided stomps. Those 80-90% winrates at the very top are farmed on average players, not within the top 50.

"bUt i WaNt tO pLaY WiTh FrIeNdS" -  yes we know. Very convincing and sound argument. It's not that you'd want easymode ranked farming, or making q-dodgeing each other at the top easier(which is basicly wintrading)... you are just an innocent, pure hearthed top player who wan't to have spend time with his/her dear friends. 
 

Unless they change some stuff, sPvP will remain an irrelevant gamemode. IMO one of the most important things would be to do away with duoQ.

The whole leaderboards is broken, i blelieve we are at same skill level g3/p1 solo, are you experiencing the "gold 2 barons of arena" effect? They come with baron title over their heads but they get clapped hard by g3/p1 player when they should faceroll you. There're still players with baron and plat 2 gameplay level, but most barons i see now wouldnt keep themselves plat 1 solo. We have some super inflated mmr,  i see even ppl that would struggle to keep themselves p2 with god of arena titles, i like 2 seasons ago we had a gold 2 player top 10, acc sharing maybe, cuz i never saw him again. Also i played agaisnt a duo of god +demigod of arena, the fact they would take ages to kill me 1v1 just messed with their whole snowball and game was very close, if i had 1 more g3/p1 player they would have lost that game, this tells me they're at best low p2 players, also they lost a match against 2 barons of arena and one of those barons is like g3/p1 skill level

[Bazsi.2734]

2 minutes ago, Khalisto.5780 said:

The whole leaderboards is broken, i blelieve we are at same skill level g3/p1 solo, are you experiencing the "gold 2 barons of arena" effect? They come with baron title over their heads but they get clapped hard by g3/p1 player when they should faceroll you. There're still players with baron and plat 2 gameplay level, but most barons i see now wouldnt keep themselves plat 1 solo. We have some super inflated mmr,  i see even ppl that would struggle to keep themselves p2 with god of arena titles, i like 2 seasons ago we had a gold 2 player top 10, acc sharing maybe, cuz i never saw him again. Also i played agaisnt a duo of god +demigod of arena, the fact they would take ages to kill me 1v1 just messed with their whole snowball and game was very close, if i had 1 more g3/p1 player they would have lost that game, this tells me they're at best low p2 players, also they lost a match against 2 barons of arena and one of those barons is like g3/p1 skill level

I don't know what my current rating would be, I was plat 3 when stopped caring about the ladder. Guess I'm a plat 2(accounting for decreased player numbers). Nowadays the amount of matches I play hardly put me past the qualifiers sometimes, but at least I get to see enough f***ery to demotivate me from playing more.
I myself am playing like the 2nd or 3rd qualifier, so me being misplaced at this point is acceptable. However: I have a top 10 teammate, and a gold 2 one. Both have more than enough games. Why are they in the same matchup? 400+ rating diff... such refined matchmaking!  Then we get a matchup where the enemy has 2 premades, and we have none. Lovely. Next match: we're against misha+birdi, and we have NOONE on our team above plat 1(as I'm unranked this being like my 5th qualifier)... I'm running out of ironic remarks at this point.
When I find myself hating the top players for joining the queue, the system is trash. I know I'll be put against them unless I q-dodge, and if I fail to dodge them they will beat my team even if I win all of my own fights so... duoQ, fun for the whole family(of 2)!