[Suggestion] Add a vanilla/free game mount for new players. (before steam release if possible)

[Lion.6590]

A simple mount that runs in the same speed of a player with swiftness sounds very good for me, it wouldn't invalidate PoF mounts and it would still be an improvement for the overall new player experience. Sure you can just use swiftness to run faster, but that is an annoyance when you are just exploring and people often look up for mounts in MMORPGs very early on game, this also would work as an advertisement for PoF mounts since they would be much better.

[lorddarkflare.9186]

Hmm, so I think the base game is fantastic without mounts, and I would not want them added.

HOWEVER, I think many people--including myself--hold that opinion because we played the game for many years without it and it feels natural to us.

Waiting 2 expansions for a shiny that everyone around you seems to have is sort of rough, and potentially demoralizing for brand new players.

When the game goes to steam, I am okay with new players getting  Raptor and Bunny at specific level intervals. My desire is to make getting the mounts feel like more of a core experience because at this point they pretty much are.

Maybe levels 60 and 80?

This is all to tide them over through HoT.

[Danikat.8537]

6 hours ago, CalamityO.2890 said:

 

As someone who does daily events and tags up using my mentor tag. I can empirically say, mounts only get you faster to events on this instance. It isn't mounts, it's actually players zerging down event(s), I do the minimal to get credit i.e hit the mob once or twice, or kill 1 mob to ensure I get credit for that event. Players on the other hand kill everything insight, they zerg down mobs a lot quicker. If I get to an event, I have to be quick just to even get a hit on a mob, so I don't miss out and leave enough health on a mob so someone else can get credit too.      

I think that might be a common problem in MMOs. Recently Elder Scrolls Online had a daily activity where players needed to kill not a boss but the additional enemies the boss spawns, so they needed to wait for it to spawn them, then attack them to get credit. Even then people were burning the boss down as fast as they possibly could, using all their strongest attacks, then acting surprised that they didn't get credit for the activity because it didn't have time to spawn anything, and they had to wait for it to reappear. And this is an ESO world boss - like a slightly stronger GW2 champion, not something that requires a group to go all-out to defeat it even under normal circumstances.

I agree that giving everyone mounts wouldn't actually fix that problem. New players could rush over to a distant event more quickly, but if ones they're in range to see on the map are completing before they can get there then even with a mount they'd be lucky to get in and tag something before it ended, so it's not going to be a good experience either way.

Fixing the scaling would help a lot more there, that's been an issue in lower level maps for a very long time.

 

2 hours ago, kenny.7236 said:

Why do people keep saying must change this, must have that before Steam release?

I think it's because Anet said they are going to make some changes to prepare for the Steam release, so now people think if they can tie a suggestion into releasing on Steam it's more likely to happen.

[mythical.6315]

6 hours ago, Cuks.8241 said:

Its both. You can see it now with S1 re release when people are doing the refuge achievs. A new player has 0 chance of tagging the events in Diessa. You have a bunch of 80s moving down everything on raptors. Even if you restrain yourself you only need 1 kitten with a raptor. 

 

Not really.  None of the events instant complete so there's more than enough time and opportunity to tag them.

[Xelqypla.6817]

5 hours ago, JasonLucas.4981 said:

A simple mount that runs in the same speed of a player with swiftness sounds very good for me, it wouldn't invalidate PoF mounts and it would still be an improvement for the overall new player experience. Sure you can just use swiftness to run faster, but that is an annoyance when you are just exploring and people often look up for mounts in MMORPGs very early on game, this also would work as an advertisement for PoF mounts since they would be much better.

This would feel VERY out of place since everything has a function in game.

 

Closest thing would be to allow players to use Warclaw in PvE, but still need PoF and to unlock it for PvP.

[The Chosen One.5369]

I think it would be cool if they did what they did in cantha and had a "raptor taxi" station if they put those in several places in every map then that would cut down on walking but also allow people to take in the scenery still.

I absolutely hated how slow walking everywhere was and half the time i spent running away from death then exploring because i was so squishy. 

[daesz.2439]

(beside some of the mounts that makes vertical content slightly easier) mount werent and still arent neccessary for the gameplay at all, especially in core game lol.

[Sylvi.8372]

When I was a new player in Nov 2020, I followed the advice to level 1 to 80 and not boost, in order to learn the game.

 

It wasn’t so bad to walk on foot. In fact I noticed more of the map’s beauty, slowed down to notice events (and rushed to run from mobs). Granted it’s easy to be jealous of all the mounted players zooming past. That experience taught me my Core character’s skills at swiftness and other boons.
 

Dying from a fall is particularly painful until one gets gliding or a Skimmer/Griffon/Skyscale. Though that experience taught me my profession’s damage mitigation and sustain.

 

Spending half an hour doing a jp for a vista feels really sucky when you see a player on a Skyscale do it in less than 10 seconds. It’s why at some point in the NPE, I just gave up on map completion until I got mount masteries. (Why work so hard when there’s a more efficient way?)

These days (1 year+ after my NPE) I have max masteries and can zoom past maps. While appreciating the map is nice and all, these days I’d rather save time to focus on IRL priorities I need to care more about.

 

There are pros and cons to this, just sharing what it was like for me back then.

[Demented Lemur.7861]

The core maps were entirely designed without mounts in mind. Part of the leveling experience is exploring maps. 

 

If players quit because they don't have a mount to start off. Chances are they just generally don't like MMOs (as no mmo allows you to have a mount at the start) or they have other problems with the game. 

 

 

[Tackyshotgun.6275]

I think the warclaw would make a great starting mount for new players. 

[patton the great.7126]

No just no. I'd rather give all new players a cape. PERHAPS an instanced player skiff cape with the option to upgrade via gems to instanced player skiff Capes with fishing. 

 

Still better than wasting resources on wvw. Better yet, let's redo the Zoltan fight and give tall dark and dead a new death worthy of and elder wyvern!

[Zauriel Mooncat.4968]

On 4/30/2022 at 6:30 AM, Pizzous.4783 said:

There's already a mount for core game. They're your own feet.

 

The all mighty riding broom begs to differ mate!

Jokes aside tho, I do believe that new players should have access to a raptor IF they have purchased any or the expansions or core game. I do understand that struggle of not keeping up on speed when events pop up and they struggle to get to the events and be part of them. 

Just basic raptor mount, and if they get PoF then they get the ability to upgrade the mount, but, I want to reiterate, for paying players. 

If you are a free to play player, I dont agree for you to get a mount, that is one of the main selling points from Anet to get revenue, and giving it for free would hinder their sales. It is important to have a balance for them economically speaking and the maximun that could happen would be maybe a mount that works almost as a bus to carry people throughout the map so the community bonds more together by aiding new players and providing some level of support, but thats about it. 

(I also understand this is a very heated debate so I want to be very clear that I dont mean ill will towards free to play players, but one has to think what is best also for the company so the game keeps afloat as well.)

Edited May 1, 2022 by Zauriel Mooncat.4968
Better Elaboration

[Erise.5614]

I honestly think the way they implemented mounts and gliding in EoD is brilliant. If they keep doing that moving forward that would already go a long way. Simply unlocking gliding, raptor and springer but keeping masteries locked. So they are still very limited and act more like an advertisement for the PoF / HoT bundle. 

 

For the base game I agree with con mounts. Discovering the world yourself is an important experience. Mounts do turn that into "flyover country" real quick.

Though, I also think it could be interesting to add a further teaser. Something like, as long as you don't have access to any mount you can interact with a waypoint to summon a raptor. Extremely limited as you will loose your mount the moment you unmount. And not giving it away right away either. This could be a nice reward for new players during the Living World Season 1 reboot which is intended as the first step into late game story content. I'd expect players to have spent a considerable amount of time playing at this point and experienced most of what is there to discover on a casual play through. Enticing them towards expansion purchases would be good here. Leading up towards a feeling of sudden freedom where you can use mounts all the time. While also making it less annoying to do mounts a little later.

There's issues with that idea but I hope it gets the basic idea across at least. Some very limited but existing access to one limited mount after the basic leveling experience.

Without any access to mounts my primary advice the moment someone hits 80 is to play PoF for the mounts and upgrades followed by HoT and then either LWS or EoD. But that's not the smoothest path when it comes to story and gameplay experience. 

[Xaxxus.6719]

of all the problems with the new player experience, lack of mounts is not a serious one.

 

id rather they put resources towards  an overhaul of the leveling experience. Not only is the 1-80 experience really dated, it also does nothing to prepare you for any form of end game content.

[The Greyhawk.9107]

Sounds like a bad idea.

[mungozen.2379]

27 minutes ago, Labjax.2465 said:

That is not a solution, you have no idea what you're talking about and still aren't listening. "Just skip leveling and go straight to 80, then do the first mission of the 2nd expansion, and boom, you'll have a mount! Problem solved, duh." As I said before, I'm glad people like you aren't in charge of the game.

I'm not suggesting it is an elegant solution, but it is a solution that exists for everyone who bought the expansion.  Your complaint in part centers around wanting something from an expansion you had not yet purchased.  Your reasoning is an emotional one, not one born of necessity.  Feeling left out does not equate to an in game need.

Players do not need mounts in Core Tyria, or in fact, in any content up to PoF, as none of the content prior to PoF was designed to require mounts in any way.  Anet has not changed anything in pre-PoF content to require a mount either, so it isn't like there are new players who can't play the game because they need a mount to get around the Core, HoT or the LW seasons prior to PoF.

So if there isn't an in game need for mounts, what am I missing here?  That some players may feel bad cause they don't have something other players have paid for (the expansion) and invested time into acquiring (the mounts)?  Does that seem like a good reason for Anet to change the game?

[Akisohida.8963]

The base game, even by the story, feels slower and more prone to exploration instead of rushing from point A to point B. A mount would ruin that.

The mounts really seemed to appear after the events the main character is involved in became much more dire, and speed or special mobility became more of a problem.

So I don't see F2P needing some social mount to let people ignore the game and zip through the maps as fast as possible.

[Labjax.2465]

44 minutes ago, Mungo Zen.9364 said:

I'm not suggesting it is an elegant solution, but it is a solution that exists for everyone who bought the expansion.  Your complaint in part centers around wanting something from an expansion you had not yet purchased.  Your reasoning is an emotional one, not one born of necessity.  Feeling left out does not equate to an in game need.

Players do not need mounts in Core Tyria, or in fact, in any content up to PoF, as none of the content prior to PoF was designed to require mounts in any way.  Anet has not changed anything in pre-PoF content to require a mount either, so it isn't like there are new players who can't play the game because they need a mount to get around the Core, HoT or the LW seasons prior to PoF.

So if there isn't an in game need for mounts, what am I missing here?  That some players may feel bad cause they don't have something other players have paid for (the expansion) and invested time into acquiring (the mounts)?  Does that seem like a good reason for Anet to change the game?

People leave or join games based on what they feel about it every day and anyone who doesn't take that seriously is deeply unserious about game design. Heck, you could say the same about probably every art form and anything bought and sold that isn't strictly essential to staying alive. I don't know how to make it any clearer. What you personally deem essential or superfluous is irrelevant. What matters is whether the design is doing what you want it to do. You can make a game where part of your design is purposefully to make people feel left out not having a mount and make their only way around this be a messy 'solution' that involves jumping over aspects of the game you expected them to do sequentially, if that's your design intention. Kind of an odd one in my view, but you can do that if you want and embrace it. I doubt Anet really wants that to be the design in the long-term. They probably just didn't consider the consequences thoroughly enough at the time. It happens. Design can get complex, with a lot of variables to consider.

[Dante.1508]

21 hours ago, kenny.7236 said:

Why do people keep saying must change this, must have that before Steam release?

Because its customer law.

[Dante.1508]

2 hours ago, Akisohida.8963 said:

The base game, even by the story, feels slower and more prone to exploration instead of rushing from point A to point B. A mount would ruin that.

The mounts really seemed to appear after the events the main character is involved in became much more dire, and speed or special mobility became more of a problem.

So I don't see F2P needing some social mount to let people ignore the game and zip through the maps as fast as possible.

Which is some what true the first time around.. the 20th pass it gets a little tedious.. Also just doing map completions and being dragged back by mobs CC is beyond annoying.

[mungozen.2379]

1 hour ago, Labjax.2465 said:

People leave or join games based on what they feel about it every day and anyone who doesn't take that seriously is deeply unserious about game design. Heck, you could say the same about probably every art form and anything bought and sold that isn't strictly essential to staying alive. I don't know how to make it any clearer. What you personally deem essential or superfluous is irrelevant. What matters is whether the design is doing what you want it to do. You can make a game where part of your design is purposefully to make people feel left out not having a mount and make their only way around this be a messy 'solution' that involves jumping over aspects of the game you expected them to do sequentially, if that's your design intention. Kind of an odd one in my view, but you can do that if you want and embrace it. I doubt Anet really wants that to be the design in the long-term. They probably just didn't consider the consequences thoroughly enough at the time. It happens. Design can get complex, with a lot of variables to consider.

You're pretty funny, the consequences!  Not serious about game development! 

The consumer is not always right and sometimes a product is not the right fit for a consumer.  This is totally okay.

You mention 'What matters is whether the design is doing what you want it to do.'  Do you think Anet feels that the game design is doing what they want it to do here?  I would say they probably do, given that since PoF and Mounts entered the game, they have always required players own PoF and go to the Crystal Desert to get them started.  Same applies for Gliding from HoT and now Fishing/Skiffs from EoD.

This is why I keep coming back to the fact that there is no requirement to using mounts in Core Tyria.  The game was designed before they were needed, so any requirement players bring up is usually based around anecdotal or emotive reasoning.  This type of reasoning is rarely solid ground for making good business decisions.

[mungozen.2379]

3 minutes ago, Labjax.2465 said:

When you have made games and tried to work with people who play them, you can come back and we can continue this conversation. It's apparent that until then, you aren't going to understand what I'm talking about and I'm wasting my time.

Would your engagement with this conversation change if I gave you my credentials?

I'm not one to share my extended work experience in a public forum, but I believe I understand this topic pretty well having worked for multiple companies in product development and support.  Perhaps instead of talking down to me and assuming that you know more than I do, you should expand upon your position and show value in your proposition. 

Why should Anet care about new players feeling left out by not having mounts with when there are already established methods of attaining them?

[Inculpatus cedo.9234]

Someone seems to be unaware that it does not require leveling to 80 (by any method) to attain a Mount, including the Raptor.  It does, though, require purchasing an expansion. 

[Erise.5614]

8 hours ago, Xaxxus.6719 said:

of all the problems with the new player experience, lack of mounts is not a serious one.

 

id rather they put resources towards  an overhaul of the leveling experience. Not only is the 1-80 experience really dated, it also does nothing to prepare you for any form of end game content.

That is actually true. Any implementation should be easy and quick or not be done. There's plenty of problems that need the attention more.

But mounts are a big draw. We've seen a significant amount of WoW players (visible via reddit threads and such) after the recent announcement of dragons (aka griffons) to WoW. So teasing those somewhat early by making it available in limited capacity to paying players might be a good way to increase the conversion rate (aka make it more appealing to buy any expansion). Without railroading those players into PoF straight away. 

And therefore help the game a little. If the effort behind it is appropriately small, it could be neat. 

Edited May 2, 2022 by Erise.5614

[Mrs Lana.2506]

I wouldn't be opposed to non-expac accounts given access to a super basic speed-boost-only mount.

I saw the mention of a possible rented mount, and think that would be a good idea. Have the most basic, no special skills mount that players can rent for a silver/gold price. That way it wouldn't need to tie into the mastery system, and wouldn't decrease the "value" of the current mounts.

However, I'm also ok with this not being implemented. There's only ever been twice I've been asked "when do I unlock a mount". I think new players are busy learning the game. Having too much information packed in a short while can cause an overload of information, which can cause players to quit. Let's be real, no one wants to read. We want to play the game.