[Suggestions ] Just listen to this guy

[Luci.7018]

10 hours ago, Raizel.8175 said:

What standards? I said that people should be able to expect players to know about fundamental game mechanics - just like in any other MMORPG. Is that being evil to you now?

Harmony requires both sides to find a well-balanced compromise.  It just so seems that, well... I assume "your" side... isn't quite willing to compromise.

Our people know the fundamental game mechanics (cc/avoid aoe/heal/dps) . But they are not enough it seems , by your standards.

Can't we have something for  a " well-balanced compromise" (open PvE legendary) , between us  ?

Edited May 5, 2022 by Luci.7018

[Raizel.8175]

2 minutes ago, Albi.7250 said:

His "side" being "casual" players on the forum.

I know. That's the shame though. The self-proclaimed forum-"casuals" really depict a pretty bad picture of real casual players. The game would have less problems if everyone knew the basics...

[The Greyhawk.9107]

God kitten it.

Edited May 5, 2022 by The Greyhawk.9107

[Raizel.8175]

3 minutes ago, Luci.7018 said:

Our people know the fundamental game mechanics (cc/avoid aoe/heal/dps) . But they are not enough it seems , by your standards.

Well... Some person did tell me that I can't expect people to realize that the stat "condition damage" increases the damage your conditions do... I'm happy that you know, but there seems to be a large subcommunity that simply refuses to learn basic game mechanics. Are these people truly worth compromising with if they don't even bother to try?

5 minutes ago, Luci.7018 said:

Can't we have something for  a " well-balanced compromise" (open PvE legendary) , between us  ?

I'm not even against open world legendary armor if it requires a decent amount of effort and challenge. The problem is: Do people want easy legendary armor or well-earned legendary armor? If you have all the story meta achievements and do certain meta events (Triple Trouble, Dragon's End, Serpent's Ire - just to name a few events that should be mandatory) for tokens for legendary armor on a daily basis plus use some new gift of open world mastery consisting of a gift of exploration and the lesser expansion gifts and have reasonable time gates, then fine, I don't mind legendary open world armor. Would that be acceptable for you though?

[Luci.7018]

10 hours ago, Raizel.8175 said:

Well... Some person did tell me that I can't expect people to realize that the stat "condition damage" increases the damage your conditions do... I'm happy that you know, but there seems to be a large subcommunity that simply refuses to learn basic game mechanics. Are these people truly worth compromising with if they don't even bother to try?

 

I'm not even against open world legendary armor if it requires a decent amount of effort and challenge. The problem is: Do people want easy legendary armor or well-earned legendary armor? If you have all the story meta achievements and do certain meta events (Triple Trouble, Dragon's End, Serpent's Ire - just to name a few events that should be mandatory) for tokens for legendary armor on a daily basis plus use some new gift of open world mastery consisting of a gift of exploration and the lesser expansion gifts and have reasonable time gates, then fine, I don't mind legendary open world armor. Would that be acceptable for you though?

You based your  argument , from a person prospective  that claims other people don't know the condition stats?

 

As far as getting the armor , everything is  acceptable . There are already groupds that are doing Triple Trouble, Dragon's End and might help new players (Teapot).

Heck , they might get some money from tips

Edited May 5, 2022 by Luci.7018

[Dante.1508]

3 hours ago, Raizel.8175 said:

Are these people truly worth compromising with if they don't even bother to try?

Yes they are, why because they paid the same for a game as you did, they are people just like you and you are not better than them even if you believe you are.

Everyone deserves equal share in a game no matter what content they enjoy.

[Linken.6345]

1 hour ago, Dante.1508 said:

Yes they are, why because they paid the same for a game as you did, they are people just like you and you are not better than them even if you believe you are.

Everyone deserves equal share in a game no matter what content they enjoy.

Ah so in your oppinion Anet should stop developing more open world and instead do more content spvp, wvw, fractals and raids.

Since everyone deserves an equal share right?

And all of those have had less of the cake then open world over the years.

[The Greyhawk.9107]

1 hour ago, Linken.6345 said:

Ah so in your oppinion Anet should stop developing more open world and instead do more content spvp, wvw, fractals and raids.

Since everyone deserves an equal share right?

And all of those have had less of the cake then open world over the years.

You think inflicting something that you think is unfair upon others that haven't had to deal with it is somehow just?

[Linken.6345]

1 hour ago, The Greyhawk.9107 said:

You think inflicting something that you think is unfair upon others that haven't had to deal with it is somehow just?

How am I doing that Im just saying thats what need to happen if everyone should have an equal share like Dante said they should.

Since Anet dont have infinite resources they must stop developing the thing that have drained the most and spend those resources on other kind of content that have not drained that much yet.

[The Greyhawk.9107]

1 hour ago, Linken.6345 said:

How am I doing that Im just saying thats what need to happen if everyone should have an equal share like Dante said they should.

Since Anet dont have infinite resources they must stop developing the thing that have drained the most and spend those resources on other kind of content that have not drained that much yet.

Dude. 😬

Edited May 6, 2022 by The Greyhawk.9107

[Raizel.8175]

6 hours ago, Dante.1508 said:

Yes they are, why because they paid the same for a game as you did, they are people just like you and you are not better than them even if you believe you are.

Everyone deserves equal share in a game no matter what content they enjoy.

Neither do I believe that I'm better than other nor do I believe that certain content should be favored one-sidedly - which it currently does by the way: The main focus lies on open world gameplay. It doesn't only get the most content, it also gets the most profitable content in a game in which gold is so brokenly powerful. I mean, I don't really play WvW much, but is it okay that these people are waiting for 4 (?) years by now for their Alliance feature and haven't had any other update since? That leaves us with one conclusion though: It's okay to harm the game as long as you've paid for it?

[The Boz.2038]

10 hours ago, Luci.7018 said:

Our people know the fundamental game mechanics (cc/avoid aoe/heal/dps) . But they are not enough it seems , by your standards.

Can't we have something for  a " well-balanced compromise" (open PvE legendary) , between us  ?

"The definition of compromise is me getting what I want and the game mode that you like can die in a fire."

Yeah, how about no? 

[Astralporing.1957]

13 hours ago, Raizel.8175 said:

Nobody believes s/he's the "sun" though? The more hardcore players just want people to have knowledge about fundamental game mechanics - which is actually the norm in any game and especially in online-games.

The more hardcore players "just" want the rest to become more hardcore. And don't accept "no" for an answer.

[Astralporing.1957]

4 hours ago, Linken.6345 said:

Ah so in your oppinion Anet should stop developing more open world and instead do more content spvp, wvw, fractals and raids.

Since everyone deserves an equal share right?

And all of those have had less of the cake then open world over the years.

Not "every group" but "every player". Each content should get a share of resources dedicated to it that is proportional to the number of players interested in said content. It's just that there's simply way more OW/casual players than hardcore ones. So, all of "spvp, wvw, fractals and raids" indeed had "less of the cake" than open world, but that is simply because all those types of content taken together are still being played by only a minority of players.

It's not a problem of more hardcore content not getting their "equal share". It's that hardcore players are generally used to (and expecting) receiving special treatment. And don't react all too well if they don't get what they expect. As such, hardcore content generally requires far more resource investiture per player to be sustainable.

It was clearly shown in the history of raids in GW2. When Anet allocated as much resources as (to them) raid population warranted, it turned out to not be enough to keep raiders happy. Coupled with the accessibility issues, it meant that raider population after initial peak just kept dropping and dropping, up to the point where any further resource investment was no longer justifiable to devs.

 

 

[SlayerXX.7138]

2 minutes ago, Astralporing.1957 said:

Not "every group" but "every player". Each content should get a share of resources dedicated to it that is proportional to the number of players interested in said content. It's just that there's simply way more OW/casual players than hardcore ones. So, all of "spvp, wvw, fractals and raids" indeed had "less of the cake" than open world, but that is simply because all those types of content taken together are still being played by only a minority of players.

It's not a problem of more hardcore content not getting their "equal share". It's that hardcore players are generally used to (and expecting) receiving special treatment. And don't react all too well if they don't get what they expect. As such, hardcore content generally requires far more resource investiture per player to be sustainable.

Lol people advocating mob justice at cost of the health of the game. Enough people are interested in challenging content. And you heavily underestimate the number of fractals/Raid/WvW/PvP combined. 

 

A game needs some Reward to strive for. And challenging content is part of that. A game needs that even if not everyone does it. If you are mad because people don't carry you to content stay mad.

 

50 minutes ago, Astralporing.1957 said:

The more hardcore players "just" want the rest to become more hardcore. And don't accept "no" for an answer.

People being mediocre is there own dam fault. Nobody wants you to be more hardcore. If you join a Strike, any group content were people rely on you, you have to do your part. You cant claim being oppressed because other people don't do your work for you.

[SeTect.5918]

It doesn't matter if u like teapot or not, but this topic is nonsense. 

If your first post on the forum is: "Listen to this youtuber", then sorry but get out of the forum. Or make it better next time.

There are profession subforums, there are other subforums to post suggestions and there are lots of players writing good suggestions, feedback and whatever. Teapots opinion doesn't have more weight than the opinion of them. 

Your suggestion to the game shouldn't be to simply Listen to a youtuber. 

Where would we end up if everyone posts their fav youtuber and says: just Listen to this! 

If you have an opinion about something thats also teapots opinion, then write it down on the forum. But dont do...that. 

As said in another topic a while ago:

The opinion of a youtuber does not have more weight than the opinion of any other person. 

 

I think its pretty obvious that they wont just Listen to him and are like: "yo, nice we ll take all that into the game."

So if you like some of his opinions, then write them down here on the forum so everyone can see what exactly you mean and call out pros and cons for it. So you went here thinking that anet will see your post, then its even another reason to make your own post with the same opinion. 

But a small suggestion: dont call the title: [Suggestions] Just Listen to me

 

I m sure your next post will get more positive reactions then.

So basically: build your own opinion and write it down. Or even just copy his opinion, but make your own text with reasons and so on. 

Edited May 6, 2022 by SeTect.5918

[Raizel.8175]

1 hour ago, Astralporing.1957 said:

The more hardcore players "just" want the rest to become more hardcore. And don't accept "no" for an answer.

Big Oof. The more hardcore players don't want the rest to become more hardcore, they want the rest to get down the basics/fundamental game mechanics. That's not becoming hardcore, that's becoming able to play the game.

[Raizel.8175]

35 minutes ago, SeTect.5918 said:

If your first post on the forum is: "Listen to this youtuber", then sorry but get out of the forum. Or make it better next time.

There are profession subforums, there are other subforums to post suggestions and there are lots of players writing good suggestions, feedback and whatever. Teapots opinion doesn't have more weight than the opinion of them. 

"Your arguments don't matter because bureaucratics"?

36 minutes ago, SeTect.5918 said:

The opinion of a youtuber does not have more weight than the opinion of any other person. 

Sorry, but that's wrong. He isn't just a single person, he represents a community and thus has inherently more weight than a single person. He's also more knowledgeable about the game than the average player which also gives his opinion more weight.

[vares.8457]

52 minutes ago, SeTect.5918 said:

If your first post on the forum is: "Listen to this youtuber", then sorry but get out of the forum. Or make it better next time.

 

Are you the Forum Police, Officer? 

[mercury ranique.2170]

I tried watching his video's in the past and always ended up rather irritated by the way he forces his opinion. I decided to give it a retry and less then 30 seconds into this vid I allready reached peak irritation:
Why Guild Wars 2's Weak Endgame Rewards Are A HUGE Problem - YouTube

 

Quote

the game is about farming gold. That is the main thrust of GuildWars2. that is a fact

The issue here is that I believe this just untrue.
The main thrust for anyone to play a videogame is to enjoy themself and have a good time. Atleast, that should be the case as it is created as a leisure activity to do to relax and distract ourselfes from the daily reality away from our computer. I know that in this lies a danger as video games, specially social video games like GW2, have a tendencie to be addictive. The thrust to gold is a result of this tendencie, but it is and should never be treated as the main thrust.

I know he means well and speaks out of concern. But in my experience. Arenanet used to have excellent feeling towards the playerbase (and the entire playerbase). But there has been some loudmouths voicing the same mantra over and over that has been dictating Arenanet's action more and more that went against the core principles behind the game.

As an example:
Guild Wars 2 Design Manifesto | GuildWars2.com
This has been the corner stone of GW2 design.
 

Quote

ecause, like Guild Wars before it, GW2 doesn’t fall into the traps of traditional MMORPGs. It doesn’t suck your life away and force you onto a grinding treadmill; it doesn’t make you spend hours preparing to have fun rather than just having fun

When you read this and compare it to teapots opinion. I wonder why he wants to turn GW2 into just the next mmorpg that does the same thing as others with just different paint and colours. 

So to the devs I would like to say two things.
1: Just cause an opinion is vocied loudly and often, doesn't mean the opinion is valid. People voice an opinion for a reason. Most often cause they are dissattisfied and angry. Is that the majority speaking? and what is it that really turns them angry? Just 2: listening to an opninion and following up on it is not going to resolve this.

2: You make a great game. Off course it can be improved., but listen to yourself first. The manifesto. The core philosphy that brought you to where you are today. learn from your msitakes and improve, but make it better in a way you see fitting.

And this is why I do not listen to mighty teapot. just 30 seconds of listening to him gives me this wall of text to react 😉 

 

[SeTect.5918]

42 minutes ago, Raizel.8175 said:

Sorry, but that's wrong. He isn't just a single person, he represents a community and thus has inherently more weight than a single person. 

He is a single person or do u think He asks his community before building his opinion? Obviously not. 

He has a community, yes. But that doesn't mean He instantly speaks for 40k people. 

If i make a youtube channel, get 200 Million subs and then upload a Video where i say anything, it doesn't mean that i speak for them. 

If he makes a Video where He calls out his opinion, it is HIS opinion and not the opinion of all his followers. 

Its true that He has more reach because He has lots of subs, but that doesn't mean He is more right than you, Me or anyone else. 

And again, to make something clear, thats no teapot hate, because its like that for every Youtuber. 

Edited May 6, 2022 by SeTect.5918

[Tukaram.8256]

9 hours ago, Dante.1508 said:

Yes they are, why because they paid the same for a game as you did, they are people just like you and you are not better than them even if you believe you are.

Everyone deserves equal share in a game no matter what content they enjoy.

Yeah, pretty much this.  How other people play, how other people get their stuff - means nothing to me or my enjoyment. 😎

[The Boz.2038]

9 minutes ago, mercury ranique.2170 said:

I tried watching his video's in the past and always ended up rather irritated by the way he forces his opinion. I decided to give it a retry and less then 30 seconds into this vid I allready reached peak irritation:
Why Guild Wars 2's Weak Endgame Rewards Are A HUGE Problem - YouTube

The issue here is that I believe this just untrue.

Blah blah blah

OK, can we, just as an experiment, delete all of the gold and material rewards from content you enjoy? Just to see what it does to your gaming habits?

[HotDelirium.7984]

Being a fan of the game does not a game dev make. What I have learned from being a gamer for decades is that we are not privvy to the behind the scenes stipulations concerning all aspects of a game. Whether something is objectively a good idea, it still has many checks it has to pass as well as a high number of factors that can influence it such as priorities, resource allocations, dev time, managerial influences, current infrastructure etc. I don't doubt his suggestions are agreed upon generally by many people (maybe even some devs) but to not consider what I brought up before is to be a bit disingenuous. We should of course vote with our wallets, continue to give quality critiques and either move on from the game or stay and enjoy what game service they provide.

[mercury ranique.2170]

57 minutes ago, The Boz.2038 said:

OK, can we, just as an experiment, delete all of the gold and material rewards from content you enjoy? Just to see what it does to your gaming habits?

Sure. I never bothered about it at all. I play the game cause I enjoy it. I like doing fashion wars, but that is simular to liking to decorate my house. I have never played for a futile online currency and never will do that. So, no I wont gift it to anyone, but if it was removed from the game, I wouldnt care less.