The Zhaitan Variants

[mythical.6315]

I cancelled most of the buy orders for them as I gave up. Had I known this before, I wouldn’t have wasted like 120+ hours of doing those boring metas to farm all of the ultra grindy imperial favor. 

[Kelly.5293]

You're tool tip is missing that you need the weapon equipt in order to get credit on the Risen High Wizard..

So I waited 2 hours with the hopes of an event needing to fail for a chance to fight the Risen High Wizard with 20+ other people only to watch 2 people defend the event...

Was this really your intent for such bad quality of life in the game...?

[Nico.9361]

1 hour ago, Kelly.5293 said:

You're tool tip is missing that you need the weapon equipt in order to get credit on the Risen High Wizard..

I recall it showing something about weilding the weapon. It's the same as Teq.

[Dami.5046]

so I made 2 legendaries over the last three weeks so I need to farm a little to have the gold to buy one of the items. I am currently at needing to kill Teq. Then I read I need to have a failed event.

A failed event. Like no one is going to troll that. LIKE EVER.

Thanks for that, I really appreciate it. 

 

😕

 

 

 

Edited May 27, 2022 by Dami.5046

[Nico.9361]

2 minutes ago, Dami.5046 said:

A failed event. Like no one is going to troll that.

ppl are determined to get there too, haven't seen trolls so far.

[Dami.5046]

3 minutes ago, NotTooFoolish.7412 said:

ppl are determined to get there too, haven't seen trolls so far.

Until it's all died down i'm going to use my gold else where. I'm sure @Kelly.5293 wasn't lying either.

[wolfyrik.2017]

On 5/26/2022 at 9:23 AM, Erise.5614 said:

This only an issue because people want to rush long term rewards. Which is valid and exciting! But you have to expect to overpay and a to encounter a bunch of annoying steps along the way.

Why? Why should you expect to have to overpay and deal with annoying things? This is the most bizarre statement I've read today.

The collection could be made fun and the payments could be made sensible, it would have no negative impact on the game whatseover but would absolutely improve the experience of players.

Why does playing a game, need to be a long term, tedious goal? The game has plenty of things to do in it already.

[Jason.3485]

I may get grief for this but does everyone remember at launch how hard and expensive Gen 1 legendaries were to get?!

Map completion, mapping all of WvW,  precursors being extremely rare drops or over 1k gold just for the precursor on the TP.

Sell orders for the more popular G1 legendaries sold regularly for 4k gold.

Aurene weapons and variants will settle down and are meant to keep people playing long term.  i don’t see the problem in any of the implementation of this.  i may get a few variants down the road for my three aurene weapons but i’ll do it a nice pace.

[Gibson.4036]

15 minutes ago, xan.8936 said:

I may get grief for this but does everyone remember at launch how hard and expensive Gen 1 legendaries were to get?!

Map completion, mapping all of WvW,  precursors being extremely rare drops or over 1k gold just for the precursor on the TP.

Sell orders for the more popular G1 legendaries sold regularly for 4k gold.

Aurene weapons and variants will settle down and are meant to keep people playing long term.  i don’t see the problem in any of the implementation of this.  i may get a few variants down the road for my three aurene weapons but i’ll do it a nice pace.

I think the problem is that after you get the base legendary, you’re not really working on a legendary anymore. You’re just getting a new skin.

With the price of variants, it makes a lot more sense to get another legendary weapon you don’t have than to collect a bunch of variant skins.

Plus, they did sell the new generation with the idea that you wouldn’t need a bunch of mats for the variations. A big part of the reaction comes from them straight up misleading expectations.

[Sobx.1758]

4 minutes ago, Gibson.4036 said:

I think the problem is that after you get the base legendary, you’re not really working on a legendary anymore. You’re just getting a new skin.

With the price of variants, it makes a lot more sense to get another legendary weapon you don’t have than to collect a bunch of variant skins.

Plus, they did sell the new generation with the idea that you wouldn’t need a bunch of mats for the variations. A big part of the reaction comes from them straight up misleading expectations.

It's nothing more than personal preference/choice. All these skins are, is an additional option to add one of available skins with distinguishable legendary particles to match your character/build/wardrobe. Apparently people were hoping to get cheaper 7-skin leggies matching anything they play, at which is a weird expectation since it would just trample a big part of the previous 2 gens of leggy weapons.

Edited May 27, 2022 by Sobx.1758

[soulknight.9620]

52 minutes ago, Sobx.1758 said:

Apparently people were hoping to get cheaper 7-skin leggies matching anything they play, at which is a weird expectation since it would just trample a big part of the previous 2 gens of leggy weapons.

It would be weird if anet hadnt multiple time stated that it will function that way. That was the selling point of gen3 legendaries. 

[Rakotia.5812]

6 minutes ago, soulknight.9620 said:

It would be weird if anet hadnt multiple time stated that it will function that way. That was the selling point of gen3 legendaries. 

Exactly. Problem, as other have said, is that expectations was "we are embarking of an adventure to have a skin" no we are just throwing ressources, a lot, to have a skin.

 

Yeah, others says "it's just a skin". Sure, but they sell it as an adventure that will not take ressources and it's the opposite.

 

Plus, as always, the problem is not "hey, spend a lot of ressources and you are done": problem is you have to get your legendary, and after all the variants. If you multiply that, well, oh god.

Edited May 27, 2022 by Rakotia.5812

[Erise.5614]

3 hours ago, wolfyrik.2017 said:

Why? Why should you expect to have to overpay and deal with annoying things? This is the most bizarre statement I've read today.

The collection could be made fun and the payments could be made sensible, it would have no negative impact on the game whatseover but would absolutely improve the experience of players.

Why does playing a game, need to be a long term, tedious goal? The game has plenty of things to do in it already.

You misunderstand. I am not defending the Orr event that's easy to troll at the moment. 

But payments are "unreasonable" only because players don't want to play the associated content nor is it acceptable to wait for a few weeks while the TP prices come back down.

Any addition that's tradable and requires playing the game will have this problem. The only way around it is to have a vendor with a static and pure gold paywall. A very poor form of reward in my humble opinion. At that point, they may as well just sell it for gems. 

The purpose of these things is not to be long and tedious. But to slot into GW2s general mode of play. Accumulate over time during mostly regular play. So you only need to buy a little or can farm some content specifically for a short while to complete. 

Extremely new materials did not have time to accumulate on the side. So with limited supply and high demand the economy adjusts and the price spikes as a lot of people are willing to pay these extreme prices. Anyone unwilling or unable to has to grind it themselves or wait for prices to come back down. 

Edited May 27, 2022 by Erise.5614

[Zoid.2568]

On 5/24/2022 at 7:57 PM, yoni.7015 said:

the 10.000 research notes, it's ridiculous

Easy if you craft ascended gear and research them. You get like 300 for one ascended.

[Gibson.4036]

20 minutes ago, Zoid.2568 said:

Easy if you craft ascended gear and research them. You get like 300 for one ascended.

Which ascended gear are you recommending?

A pair of Nadijeh's gloves is around 27g to make. That's 9s/research note, if they yield 300.

Whereas Barbaric Helms net you about 5 research notes, at a cost of 1s/note. 

So make 2k helms and pay 100g for 10k notes. Or go the "easy" route and make 34 ascended gloves but pay 918g?

Not to mention the timegate to make those ascended gloves because of ecto refinement. And the non-gold costs of 680 spirit shards, 27 stacks of the vision crystal mats, and 170 dark matter.

Edited May 27, 2022 by Gibson.4036

[SlayerXX.7138]

On 5/26/2022 at 3:55 PM, soulknight.9620 said:

The comparison is accurate, because we dont have to wait 10 years to calculate the "true cost" of items that we can attain today.

The true cost is 1g per stone. So you can take 800 g of the current price for the aurene Legendary weapons. Are the new weapon unproblematic I don't know. But people have to stop being a hysteric mob about everything.

 

Sidenote: Are you guys made out of money? Who even considers buying stone from the tp?

Edited May 27, 2022 by Albi.7250

[mythical.6315]

2 hours ago, xan.8936 said:

Aurene weapons and variants will settle down and are meant to keep people playing long term.  i don’t see the problem in any of the implementation of this.  i may get a few variants down the road for my three aurene weapons but i’ll do it a nice pace.

They won’t for the next few years if at all.  The antique summoning stones and ambergris make up roughly 80% of the cost I believe. The antique summoning stones are not really going to get any cheaper at the rate that we get them and with how many you get. Ambergris is not going to get any cheaper due to how they’re acquired and how many are needed for the base weapon and for every single skin unlock. 

[Erise.5614]

19 minutes ago, mythical.6315 said:

They won’t for the next few years if at all.  The antique summoning stones and ambergris make up roughly 80% of the cost I believe. The antique summoning stones are not really going to get any cheaper at the rate that we get them and with how many you get. Ambergris is not going to get any cheaper due to how they’re acquired and how many are needed for the base weapon and for every single skin unlock. 

A.S.S are going to get significantly cheaper. It's barely been enough time to buy 100. Even if you succeeded at Dragon's End daily. As people acquire one or two they want and new trinkets / armor gets released with different material requirements the prices will drop by a lot.

You get as many as you get MCs with most of the effort and difference being: "go to Arborstone once a week". If it comes down to it, you can just endure the time gate for a total cost of like 50 gold. Instead of 900. That difference will be much, much smaller in a few months time as more and more people grind for gold rather than A.S.S. to get their next legendary. 

Ambergris may remain stable. Though that's speculation. Both in terms of how many people will acquire them and in terms of whether new Living World releases may reward some. We've had several mats devalued slightly by making them more available over the years such as Gemstones. 

Edited May 27, 2022 by Erise.5614

[mythical.6315]

2 hours ago, Erise.5614 said:

A.S.S are going to get significantly cheaper. It's barely been enough time to buy 100. Even if you succeeded at Dragon's End daily. As people acquire one or two they want and new trinkets / armor gets released with different material requirements the prices will drop by a lot.

People have stated that but the price has been fair stable with the temporary dip at the beginning of every week has can be expected.  Not enough is being generated by the weekly conversions and daily meta to cause the price to drop. It definitely won’t as more skin sets get released. 
 

2 hours ago, Erise.5614 said:

You get as many as you get MCs with most of the effort and difference being: "go to Arborstone once a week". If it comes down to it, you can just endure the time gate for a total cost of like 50 gold. Instead of 900. That difference will be much, much smaller in a few months time as more and more people grind for gold rather than A.S.S. to get their next legendary. 

Mystic coins are not as limited as them as the bulk of them you get for simply logging into the game. They’re not really the same thing or close to it.  The cost of mystic coins for the Legendaries is also considerably less and even more so when there are means to acquire mystic clovers and thus reducing the number of coins that you need. 
 

2 hours ago, Erise.5614 said:

Ambergris may remain stable. Though that's speculation. Both in terms of how many people will acquire them and in terms of whether new Living World releases may reward some. We've had several mats devalued slightly by making them more available over the years such as Gemstones. 

It’s unlikely that they’ll revisit the meta rewards again so the chance of ambergris being introduced elsewhere is improbable. 

[wolfyrik.2017]

10 hours ago, Erise.5614 said:

You misunderstand. I am not defending the Orr event that's easy to troll at the moment. 

But payments are "unreasonable" only because players don't want to play the associated content nor is it acceptable to wait for a few weeks while the TP prices come back down.

Hang on, I don't think this is valid either. Your argument implies that the costs are are a response and that just isn't the case. They were high from the start. We didn't get a chance to play the associated content. And the high price comes from the Research notes and specific materials. The RNs can't be acquired through play. They are gained exclusively from using an item on other items. That's not fun and it's not needed. I can understand anet wanting to affect aspects of the economy but achieving that by creating tedium for the player is not the way to do it.

You try to place the absurdity of the content on the players head, but this is absolutely unwarranted. Not a single player asked for the game to be made boring and tedious.

We infact do want to play the content, buying crap off some npc with unnecessary, BS currencies is not playing content. It's menu management. Nothing more.

[Erise.5614]

9 hours ago, mythical.6315 said:

People have stated that but the price has been fair stable with the temporary dip at the beginning of every week has can be expected.  Not enough is being generated by the weekly conversions and daily meta to cause the price to drop. It definitely won’t as more skin sets get released. 

It certainly will as the new skins are expected and players start running into more gold / mat sinks besides these few new materials.

The only way to have farmed 100 Antique Summoning Stones by now is by getting the weekly Arborstone ones since week 1 and playing 5 weeks of daily Dragon's End. But a handful of people in the world will have done that yet. The only people selling are the ones who don't plan on crafting the legendary or people who speculate the prices will come down before they can craft it by more than 19% (aka, more than TP fees).

And pretty much th only people who have gen 3 legendaries are people who were willing to pay a premium.

9 hours ago, mythical.6315 said:

Mystic coins are not as limited as them as the bulk of them you get for simply logging into the game. They’re not really the same thing or close to it.  The cost of mystic coins for the Legendaries is also considerably less and even more so when there are means to acquire mystic clovers and thus reducing the number of coins that you need. 

The comparison was the possible supply. You get 20 a week from login rewards or 20 a week from Arborstone vendor.

E.g. Gen 2 required 250 MCs. Aurene requires 100 A.S.S. So, given MC prices before EoD (around twice as high), the expected value of A.S.S. ought to be a bit above 5.5 gold. The bit above is related to not getting it on daily login but having to go to a vendor. The currency cost is extremely low so that's probably not gonna be a problem. But fewer people will do it. So the lower supply will increase prices by maybe 1 - 2 gold. It's unlikely that prices remain stable at almost double that expected value for another year. That would mean extremely few people are actively buying A.S.S.

Mystic Clover conversion comes ontop and increases the need to up to ~500 MCs. However, we do not have a conversion such as that for A.S.S. so that's not gonna be a factor here. 

9 hours ago, mythical.6315 said:

It’s unlikely that they’ll revisit the meta rewards again so the chance of ambergris being introduced elsewhere is improbable. 

Not the same metas. Gemstones have been added to LWS 4, PoF and EoD maps. So, not going back and retroactively adding more. But likely adding them to maps and events that will release in the future. Resulting in supply being lower than it will be in 1-2 years. 

Edited May 28, 2022 by Erise.5614

[Erise.5614]

1 hour ago, wolfyrik.2017 said:

Hang on, I don't think this is valid either. Your argument implies that the costs are are a response and that just isn't the case. They were high from the start.

Of A.S.S, yes. But Memories of Aurene are a good example demonstrating the dynamics of supply and demand. A week ago, buying all necessary memories would've cost you ~10 gold. Today it's more than 80 gold.

1 hour ago, wolfyrik.2017 said:

We didn't get a chance to play the associated content.

There is now. That's the point I'm making. You can start farming it now and have the legendary / the skin in a few weeks. Or you buy it from other people who give up their mats and push the time where they can own it back by weeks. Which will cost you premium. As fewer people will be willing to do that and therefore the supply is lower than the demand.

Free market dynamics dictate that prices will be inflated until one of the two points change. Until demand goes down or supply goes up.

1 hour ago, wolfyrik.2017 said:

And the high price comes from the Research notes and specific materials.

Research Notes have a cost of pretty much exactly 100 gold. This is high but not ridiculously so. And can be lowered further if you, for example, were able to salvage some ascended weapons that you now own the legendary version of. As you have literally zero use for those anymore. 

The majority of the claimed prices (350g-500g) therefore comes from EoD materials. 

1 hour ago, wolfyrik.2017 said:

The RNs can't be acquired through play. They are gained exclusively from using an item on other items. That's not fun and it's not needed. I can understand anet wanting to affect aspects of the economy but achieving that by creating tedium for the player is not the way to do it.

Again. Please do not misunderstand me. I'm criticizing complaints about cost. My opinion about research note acquisition is not quite settled and depends on future changes to the system. Right now it's slightly negative. Didn't do the Orr event but if what I heard is in any way correct then my opinion on that is very negative. I can totally understand frustration with both of those.

I'm primarily talking about price complaints. 

1 hour ago, wolfyrik.2017 said:

We infact do want to play the content, buying crap off some npc with unnecessary, BS currencies is not playing content. It's menu management. Nothing more.

Truly. The only aspects I'm talking about are Memories of Aurene, Ambergris (and when the base legendaries are brought up, Ancient Summoning Stones). Items where acquisition is driven by playing certain content. Entirely in the case of the first two and partially in the case of A.S.S. 

[Cyninja.2954]

On the topic of Antique Summoning Stones:

Yes, with all factors remaining the same, which we know some will not, they should drop in price eventually.

Factors which we do know will happen:

- as time passes, more stones will enter the economy thus increasing overall supply

- as supply drops, demand will increase but also supply will decrease given some players will not any longer feel the need or desire to sell

- as more weapon variants release, the demand for gen3 legendaries will increase quit simply because you get up to 6-7 legendary weapon skin effects at reduced cost or because maybe that 1 variant looks exceptionally well or to ones liking

Factors which we have no control over which might completely throw those aforementioned things out of balance:

- more requirements for stones get added, which ultimately increases demand versus a fixed supply

- more ways to acquire stones get added increasing overall fixed supply versus demand

As it stands now, the low dip was around 8gold 20s 3 weeks ago after which the price rebounded to close to 9 gold with now around 9 gold 40s. Even without additional necessities for stones being added, one can expect price adjustments every time a weapon variant releases.

So while yes, in the longrun stones will/should become cheaper, I wouldn't expect huge price drops in the short term. That is without a market establishing around a fixed price which keep stones at an equilibrium.

On the topic of gen3 variants, they are a tad over what I expected price wise and I was hoping for a 1 time unlock for the entire collection and not some back and forth. That said, a legendary skin with effects and all for around 300-400 gold seems reasonable.

Edited May 28, 2022 by Cyninja.2954

[Gehenna.3625]

16 hours ago, xan.8936 said:

I may get grief for this but does everyone remember at launch how hard and expensive Gen 1 legendaries were to get?!

Map completion, mapping all of WvW,  precursors being extremely rare drops or over 1k gold just for the precursor on the TP.

Sell orders for the more popular G1 legendaries sold regularly for 4k gold.

Aurene weapons and variants will settle down and are meant to keep people playing long term.  i don’t see the problem in any of the implementation of this.  i may get a few variants down the road for my three aurene weapons but i’ll do it a nice pace.

It happened with Gen2 as well...there was a cry out over how expensive they were to make and all the effort involved on top of that. And they were double the cost in materials, but people still got them and got used to it and life went on.

I'm sure the same will happen here.

[Kameko.8314]

Why is this such a silly collection as well? We have to do every step one by one and if its not the order etc you don't get it. Not only that but then you have to have the weapon equipped. you HAVE to have the item in your bag, like c'mon anet. This is just one of WOW's copies silly systems to do what? Like this is ridiculous. Some items you keep, some automatic, there is no consistency and very bad design. (Talking about the high wizard risen) because like the whole collection these fragments are worthless, and then the last step you expect people to just have it in your bag and to know that it is something you need to carry around when you have been putting everything in an account bound for so long. *sigh* back to 6 hour wait for the risen high lord again