TP - buggy, botted, or..?

[Rogue.8235]

9 minutes ago, TheWaternymphHC.1847 said:

Go ahead and enlighten me about how many "Strong Iron Axe"s of fine quality with a level requirement of 54 are generated by GW2's loot system per day. And while you are at it, explain to me, why those large amounts of those axes only get listed when I decide to try to buy them out completely. As mentioned above, according to the websites that track the TP via the API, only 0 to 3 axes of that type have been listed per day during the last 3 months.

🤦‍♂️ 🤦‍♂️ 🤦‍♂️ 🤦‍♂️ 🤦‍♂️

So, one explanation is that there are tens of thousands of people playing the game doing all sorts of stuff, including opening bags on lower level characters, playing  lower level alts, etc.  The other explanation is that there is a conspiracy of hackers creating bots to wreck the economy of an online video game, one that cannot be detected or stopped by ArenaNet, but can be caught out by you, with your vast knowledge of information security.

You choose to believe the latter....

Not sure there's any more that can be said, which is usually how the trading post conspiracy theory threads go.

 

[Hashberry.4510]

I just spent some time yesterday opening several thousand loot bags on a L54 toon. I don’t that often but its reasonable that there are many players doing that sort of thing at various times. Thats a lot of axes?

I salvage for mats but I guess others like to TP them? Dunno sounds a bit odd but so is the TP.

Edited June 18, 2022 by Hashberry.4510

[DD39C89C-1C46-4F28-BDB7-49]

14 hours ago, Rogue.8235 said:

 In addition, I explained in my previous post that there is a lag in the display of information.  The interface does not update in real time, but in intervals.  It also updates when you directly interact with the market, such as buying or selling an item, or creating a listing.

TP works like a website, it displays current data when refreshed. If you just opened an item - it has current prices. I have never spotted behavior you described that it updates in intervals. If you keep refreshing an item, it has all the time a current price.

To refresh: re-open, buy or sell. Old price stays only if you keep an item opened.

12 hours ago, TheWaternymphHC.1847 said:

That's quite a hilarious explanation... I selected that axe for my test, because it was a low volume item. According to the external TP-related websites that use GW2s API to track prices there were only 0 to 3 listed per day over the last 3 months. Btw, I just checked, 6h after my buying spree there are still only the 4 expensive axes listed I mentioned in my previous post and it doesn't look like there were any other trades since then. Go ahead and waste some hundred gold on those 4 axes and see how long it takes until you completely buy the item out.  

Anyway, I either found (and reported) a way to dupe items, which isn't supposed to be possible according to ANet or it's an indicator that a lot of those suspected bots are actually part of a market making system run by ANet.

I don't get what you mean now. As I wrote, those bots re-list exactly after you buy. And bots have limits per each price. If you cleared their limits, then they stop to list at that price.

Why I should waste gold to buy those expensive once? You just wasted some to get to that price, and those expensive axes will be re-listed if you buy them, exactly the same as the cheaper once.

[Rogue.8235]

6 hours ago, DD39C89C-1C46-4F28-BDB7-49 said:

TP works like a website, it displays current data when refreshed. If you just opened an item - it has current prices. I have never spotted behavior you described that it updates in intervals. If you keep refreshing an item, it has all the time a current price.

True, this is imprecise communication on my part.  When I'm on the TP I am regularly buying and selling (more setting up orders in advance), and so it effectively refreshes at nearly regular intervals for me.  Your description is the more accurate way to put it, and I defer to your explanation.

 

[robertthebard.8150]

On 6/17/2022 at 8:13 PM, TheWaternymphHC.1847 said:

That's quite a hilarious explanation... I selected that axe for my test, because it was a low volume item. According to the external TP-related websites that use GW2s API to track prices there were only 0 to 3 listed per day over the last 3 months. Btw, I just checked, 6h after my buying spree there are still only the 4 expensive axes listed I mentioned in my previous post and it doesn't look like there were any other trades since then. Go ahead and waste some hundred gold on those 4 axes and see how long it takes until you completely buy the item out.  

Anyway, I either found (and reported) a way to dupe items, which isn't supposed to be possible according to ANet or it's an indicator that a lot of those suspected bots are actually part of a market making system run by ANet.

Go ahead and enlighten me about how many "Strong Iron Axe"s of fine quality with a level requirement of 54 are generated by GW2's loot system per day. And while you are at it, explain to me, why those large amounts of those axes only get listed when I decide to try to buy them out completely. As mentioned above, according to the websites that track the TP via the API, only 0 to 3 axes of that type have been listed per day during the last 3 months.

Okay, log into your official ANet forum account and post for example the MAUs of May, yesterday's DAUs and/or the peak concurrent users of yesterday.

I suspect that, somewhere in the world today, there's someone explaining to their guild how they got a bot to buy up a lot of worthless axes.  🤣

[ShroomOneUp.6913]

On 6/18/2022 at 12:58 AM, Rogue.8235 said:

This statement right here is where the misunderstanding is.  You see the interaction as being with a single player.  Try tens of thousands.  Again, you do not understand just how many players are in the game.

 

but it doesn't explain that the situation at all. that would be reflected in countless offering in varying prizes in the list, but as stated the prize for times stays the same.  by the time he got his 5 pieces according to you so many other people would added items that there would hundreds, thousands or +99999 items of it on the TP and thus could be easily purchased in a costume quantity. The Tp as outdated it is and need to be redone just to perform better, does still pile all same prized items into ONE pool. which is the situation OP described. not differing prizes, SAME prize every single time.
I am certain it is a bot to ensure sales to go ONLY to that account, as items from a Pool of collected items could mean gold tunneled to different sellers or being stuck behind a sales queue. 

 

ONTOP OF THAT
people who do not pay attention to TP gaming do NOT set costume prizes. they just to quicksell. meaning selling things to people who LOOK for an item for a prize they set. I do because im lazy. and others most likely do it because the gold does not come into the deposit instantly so why would they click that button that sets costume prizes? also its the default option.
that is to much thinking and paying attention for the average gw2 player.

AND THE WORST IS

when YOU sell something in instant sell and you can only sell ONE at a time. same prize. over and over again. 
sorry but it HAS to be TP bots.

Edited June 19, 2022 by ShroomOneUp.6913

[Hashberry.4510]

2 hours ago, ShroomOneUp.6913 said:

when YOU sell something in instant sell and you can only sell ONE at a time. same prize. over and over again

Yes I have run into this occasionally, was puzzled but not enough to bother with it, just stayed away from those trades for a while.

[DD39C89C-1C46-4F28-BDB7-49]

On 6/18/2022 at 12:08 AM, Cuks.8241 said:

If the bot tries to keep the price high by buying items at a certain threshold. How does this help the botter? And you say this is done for not popular items where the market flow is low. So its not like the guy behind the bot will suddenly dump a few stacks of those items and expect to sell them at high price (items he was just buying, thats just straight loss right there).

As clarification - they never dump a stack on list. If a bot is set to sell, it has limits per each price and lists only few pieces at different prices, for example 5 pieces. If you buy them, it will list again 5 pieces at the same price, up to a limit of quantity, then it switches to higher price.

So they can easily keep up with changing price not losing fee for listed whole stack.

On 6/18/2022 at 12:08 AM, Cuks.8241 said:

So he turns off the bot, dumps a stack of not popular items and what? Three people buy and he gets undercut because the equilibrium is high and demand is low. So he ends up with a loss from the bot and a stack of items on TP that wont sell because the listing price is high and demand low.

And a bot which keeps a price is not turned off, the point is to immediately eliminate other listings withing set limits.

Mentioned test with axes showed that it can easily change low price to high, if someone bought-out cheap axes a bot keeps listing them for a lot more, still only few pieces at a time.

[Rogue.8235]

5 hours ago, ShroomOneUp.6913 said:

but it doesn't explain that the situation at all. that would be reflected in countless offering in varying prizes in the list, but as stated the prize for times stays the same.  by the time he got his 5 pieces according to you so many other people would added items that there would hundreds, thousands or +99999 items of it on the TP and thus could be easily purchased in a costume quantity. The Tp as outdated it is and need to be redone just to perform better, does still pile all same prized items into ONE pool. which is the situation OP described. not differing prizes, SAME prize every single time.
I am certain it is a bot to ensure sales to go ONLY to that account, as items from a Pool of collected items could mean gold tunneled to different sellers or being stuck behind a sales queue. 

 

🤦‍♂️

This post applies to you as well then:

On 6/17/2022 at 11:00 PM, Rogue.8235 said:

🤦‍♂️ 🤦‍♂️ 🤦‍♂️ 🤦‍♂️ 🤦‍♂️

So, one explanation is that there are tens of thousands of people playing the game doing all sorts of stuff, including opening bags on lower level characters, playing  lower level alts, etc.  The other explanation is that there is a conspiracy of hackers creating bots to wreck the economy of an online video game, one that cannot be detected or stopped by ArenaNet, but can be caught out by you, with your vast knowledge of information security.

You choose to believe the latter....

Not sure there's any more that can be said, which is usually how the trading post conspiracy theory threads go.

 

 

Again, people in this thread are simply incapable of understanding what tens of thousands of people interacting is like.  I get that emergence is a difficult concept to grasp, but the wild conspiracy theories are just plain ridiculous.

 

[DD39C89C-1C46-4F28-BDB7-49]

38 minutes ago, Rogue.8235 said:

Again, people in this thread are simply incapable of understanding what tens of thousands of people interacting is like.  I get that emergence is a difficult concept to grasp, but the wild conspiracy theories are just plain ridiculous.

Nah, that's not it. For example I could list at every price (ex. 50s, 48s, 46s etc.) 5 pieces., every pack was instantly sold. Then I could list 1 piece for the same prices - nobody wanted it for long. When I listed 6 pieces, then only 5 were bought.

It's by all means artificial. Just try buying and selling unpopular items, you will see that's not random as it should be.

[ShroomOneUp.6913]

20 hours ago, Rogue.8235 said:

bla bla can't read bla bla

repeating the same post that misunderstands the situation stated does not make it correct. my very post debunks the very copy past response you trying to force down peoples throats. 

 

[ShroomOneUp.6913]

15 hours ago, Rogue.8235 said:

Yep, and there are underground lizard people controlling the world economy.  That is just as plausible as what you're stating.  You are beyond reasoning with at this point.

not lizard people but by TP barons. they LITERALLY control the market. they've given enough guides and even interviews stating that ONE of them alone could crash the entire economy if they wanted to in an hour. shows how little you actually know

[Cuks.8241]

3 hours ago, ShroomOneUp.6913 said:

not lizard people but by TP barons. they LITERALLY control the market. they've given enough guides and even interviews stating that ONE of them alone could crash the entire economy if they wanted to in an hour. shows how little you actually know

Source. The last interview I saw with a guy that claims is one of the top dogs he stated the exact opposite. 

[Rogue.8235]

7 hours ago, ShroomOneUp.6913 said:

repeating the same post that misunderstands the situation stated does not make it correct. my very post debunks the very copy past response you trying to force down peoples throats. 

Nice ipse dixit fallacy there.  Using the same evidentiary standard as this post, I can confirm that the trading post is actually controlled by gremlins who were fed and watered after midnight.  The truth is right there, ignore the people trying to shove bot theories down your throat.  It's gremlins.

7 hours ago, ShroomOneUp.6913 said:

not lizard people but by TP barons. they LITERALLY control the market. they've given enough guides and even interviews stating that ONE of them alone could crash the entire economy if they wanted to in an hour. shows how little you actually know

Wonderful fallacy of defective induction.  Let me try.

Not TP barons, but PvPers that intentionally try to PvP through the TP because matchmaking is bad.  They waste their money just to mess with PvE players for no other reason than to play economy PvP.  They've actually done twitch streams and interviews demonstrating that they can grief PvE players with just a few clicks, shows how little you know.

 

Would you like to try any other fallacies?

 

Edited June 20, 2022 by Rogue.8235

[Dante.1508]

The GW2 economy is fake, its held up by Anet and many botters, please don't take the thing serious at all. Buy what you need but don't try to look into the man behind the curtain.

[DD39C89C-1C46-4F28-BDB7-49]

On 6/20/2022 at 1:38 AM, Rogue.8235 said:

You are beyond reasoning with at this point.

Well, rather you are. You can very easily test it, but you don't want to. And you're not even reasoning, just repeating that there is a lot of transactions - which is false as you can check it on TP-related websites, there are items with very low flow.

All my listings at different prices were bought instantly in exactly the same count, not a single piece more - after I cleared the limit, I could post even below crafting cost - and nobody wanted to buy that item for long.

Or you can keep buying same items which will be re-listed exactly at the same count. It never happens with normal items.

Maybe you also never saw bots on PvP...

[DD39C89C-1C46-4F28-BDB7-49]

And all those TP bots are exactly the same, highly unlikely that one person run them, there is a good chance that those are purchasable. This may explain why some are set badly and on unprofitable items. We may spotted only those bad ones, for sure someone who knows a bit more TP can set them better and not so obvious.

Some time ago there were bots on PvP, which suddenly ended, someone mentioned that some company ended support for them. This may be the same thing.

[ShroomOneUp.6913]

On 6/21/2022 at 12:12 AM, Rogue.8235 said:

Nice ipse dixit fallacy there.  Using the same evidentiary standard as this post, I can confirm that the trading post is actually controlled by gremlins who were fed and watered after midnight.  The truth is right there, ignore the people trying to shove bot theories down your throat.  It's gremlins.

Wonderful fallacy of defective induction.  Let me try.

Not TP barons, but PvPers that intentionally try to PvP through the TP because matchmaking is bad.  They waste their money just to mess with PvE players for no other reason than to play economy PvP.  They've actually done twitch streams and interviews demonstrating that they can grief PvE players with just a few clicks, shows how little you know.

 

Would you like to try any other fallacies?

how about yours:
the fallacy fallacy. You presumed that because a claim has been poorly argued, or a fallacy has been made, that the claim itself must be wrong

several people have been given account what's happening and you continuously misunderstand them or misinterpret it willfully, whilst also repeating statement that factually does not apply to the circumstances described, which shows that you do not understand any of the accounts.

also nobody said the entire TP is controlled by bots. you just put this it into people mouths by making that statement yourself in order to ridicule others. nobody said ALL items are facing this trade botting, only seemingly random ones.

once more: if 300 people in the same time frame put up the same item in a offer of 5 to the same prize onto the TP, they all would be grouped into ONE prize pool, creating a pool of 1500 pieces of that item at that prize and NOT 300 individual listings that a person would have to buy in packs of 5 over and over again.

Your "explanation" completely ignores this LITERAL FACT of how then TP operates.

And i also provided the situation that this also happens in the reverse when YOU offer a specific item in instant sell. 
If you want to sell a stack of lets say 137 of items X it does USUALLY you can sell the stack all at once as due to the "lot's of transactions" people who want to buy item X for one specific prize, let's say 5 s.  those demands will equally pool up and not be listed individually.
Botted instant sells however have this peculiar thing going on. it can happen at anytime even in the middle of the night at 3 am (which on EU servers  makes it easy to disregard your "explanation" entirely as the majority of people go to freaking sleep at that time specially during workdays, so bye bye "lot's of transactions")

Anyway with this item Z you have stack of you encounter the following. you want to instant sell it and it tells you you can only sell 1, yes only one, at a time for 6 silver flat. there ARE other listing offering more silver and the next one is actually a pool of hundreds asking for the item for 5s and 99c. You instant sell. like i said NORMALLY you would now go to the pool of 5s and 99c. not in this case. even at 3 am in the night, when 95% of players are asleep and thus the transactions are slow and low, for SOME you INSTANTLY as you sell the 1 piece for 6s, it gets listed instantly for 6s again. 
according to your false logic that would be just " lot's of transactions", which we established happening at any time even when the majority of players are sleeping is bunk.

Here comes the kicker, you repeat the process of selling Item Z for 6s one piece at the time from your hundreds stack a few more times. and now here the final nail to your false explanation gets hammered in:
!!!!TP slows you down to sell items!!!!!
after around 15 or 20 of individual offerings made, the TP stops you and tells you to wait for a few seconds to a minute until you can resume selling anything on instant sell. 
if you ""were"" correct DURING THAT WAITING PERIOD the listings of people wanting Item Z for 6 silver SHOULD INCREASE BEYOND 1 PERSON AND PIECE AT A TIME.

but guess what schuckle nut.
it NEVER does. it does not even list higher prized demands which the TP would automatically jump to if those were made.

it's 6s one piece at the time still. this would NOT happen during prime time with a currently highly traded item on the TP. it would as stated time and time again pool up to numerous people wanting to buy Item Z for 6 Silver, go to the next pool of 5s 99c OR list higher offerings above 6s.

this is what "Lot's of transaction" would naturally result in.
but it doesn't happen.
NOT with all items. and its not controlling the TP. nobody said that, stop inferring we did. (me saying Tp was controlled by TP barons was just me being a smart assassin about your statement)

So i ask again, with several people confirming this to be the case still being a thing, HOW is this happening? Shouldn't "lot's of transactions" make this not happen at all? Why are these "lot's of transactions" not pooling up and make it so you can sell a stack of hundreds of Item Z without hassle?

simple FACTUAL answer: trade bots, that list offerings and items to a certain amount to a specific prize to guarantee 100% trade interaction to that botaccount only.
WHY i can not say, as motivations can be as varied as the number of tradable items on the TP. 
And it's only a handful of seemingly random items, not all items. nobody said that and nobody claims its an attempt to control the entire TP.

Your false explanation of " lot's of transaction" ONLY WORKS during the following:
-when the prizes for an item are ALL different, when selling a stack one piece at the time. that would make sense for different people to underbid or over bid others to get/sell an item faster. But that's again not the case as stated by numerous accounts.
-when they all offer the same prize or item amount in either "instant sell" or "instant buy" and it pools up eventually allowing for more then 1 or 5 pieces to be bought or sold at a time.
-if it only happened during prime time, aka around 6pm to 9pm and not in the middle of the night at 3am, during work and school hours during the week.
-with currently most traded items either because of a festival or other in-game events or highly sought after item's

and that last bullet point alone already debunks your "lot's of transactions" argument as highly traded items / items with "lot's of transactions" would not have this issue the way Tp is functioning. in fact "little to no transactions" would make this more likely to happen naturally, but even THEN it would only happen for a handful of trade confirmations and then cease.
but the situations stated in numerous post of this thread? they do not cease to act this way, at least not in a normal timeframe or amount of items. You can sell or buy dozens of stacks of that items and it will go on Far beyond what regular tradepost user would go for at a time. 

so stop being willfully ignorant and accept that you are flat out wrong

Edited June 24, 2022 by ShroomOneUp.6913

[Ascency.3580]

if that was the case i would assume we would hear from ppl getting money twice or more for a single sale on really hot items, like ecto. and deffinitely see the economy collapse long ago after ppl just used multibox to exploit this. it took 2 weeks for ppl to find like 10 different money duping exploits in new world that were WAY less obvious; new world being a joke mind you, but still, where theres a will theres always a way. in gw2 after 10 years ppl still claim its gremlins, go figure

Edited June 24, 2022 by Ascency.3580

[Gehenna.3625]

On 6/18/2022 at 5:00 AM, Rogue.8235 said:

🤦‍♂️ 🤦‍♂️ 🤦‍♂️ 🤦‍♂️ 🤦‍♂️

So, one explanation is that there are tens of thousands of people playing the game doing all sorts of stuff, including opening bags on lower level characters, playing  lower level alts, etc.  The other explanation is that there is a conspiracy of hackers creating bots to wreck the economy of an online video game, one that cannot be detected or stopped by ArenaNet, but can be caught out by you, with your vast knowledge of information security.

You choose to believe the latter....

Not sure there's any more that can be said, which is usually how the trading post conspiracy theory threads go.

 

Wait you forget one other option...

puts on tin foil hat

Anet is doing it to mess with the market!

[Cynder.2509]

Only issue I have with TP is constant errors or slow loading and it's not my internet because other games work fine. 

Edited June 25, 2022 by Cynder.2509
removed the 1 at the end because I pressed the 1 key on my mouse at the same time with the send click by accident