Symbols and Charms are far too rare

[Boogiepop Void.6473]

Symbols and charms are far too rare. I never really noticed before since I wasn't using them much, but it's been almost 3 years since they were introduced to the game, I have the runecrafter salvage and use mystic and BL salvage kits, and I don't have even 50 of ANY of them despite having never used them. Given I salvage at least 2 stacks of greens and 1 stack of yellows PER DAY on average all this time (yes I mean open then salvage before anyone yells), that indicates a positively ludicrously low drop rate. I have literally only rolled about 20 of each. I am not saying they should be common, but this level of rarity is a bit ridiculous, only a bit better than precursor drops. And you can't even forge for it; they combine DOWN at 3-1, so the only way to actually accumulate is random drops.

[Mungrul.9358]

Do you have the Runecrafter's Salvage-o-Matic?

That helps, although you should only use it to salvage greens (Masterwork).

Use the Silver-Fed one for yellows (Rares).

 

But even then, you're better off buying them through the TP if you want to do it any time soon.

To be honest, given how many you get and how much you can sell a stack of unidentified greens or yellows for, you're often better off selling your unidentifieds.

[SlayerXX.7138]

Highest sits at 1g, lowest are sub 20s. It does feel like kitten if you look for them. But the game throws gear at you and you don't need much of them anyway. Crafting is build around the Trading post. If you don't go our your way and I mean really out of your way to farm something you will need to use the TP. The max amount you ever need is 300 each. That is 6 legendary runes and 4 Legendary Sigils.

Only use rune crafter on greens. Lost profit or overspending on salvage kits could buy you instead more symbols and charms.

1 hour ago, Boogiepop Void.6473 said:

And you can't even forge for it; they combine DOWN at 3-1, so the only way to actually accumulate is random drops.

You can. The cheap ones are so much cheaper than the expensive ones. 3 cheap -> 1 random can be profitable depending on TP prices. That's how I got my control symbol for the legendary Sigil, till I realized Sigils are kitten. if you ever change your weapon. 

Edited June 21, 2022 by Albi.7250

[Labjax.2465]

My impression was this is on purpose to inflate the cost of making Legendary Runes and Sigils, which would otherwise be some of the cheapest legendaries in the game. Not that I agree with it, but I figured that's why.

What I tend to think is (and I feel this way about Mystic Coins too): any time a legendary requires something that is next to impossible to farm, it makes the process demoralizing instead of engaging.

T6 mats are hard to come by, but there are still gameplay ways to get them pretty consistently, albeit slow.

Stuff like Mystic Coins or these Rune/Sigil mats, most gain comes down to "farm gold and buy on the TP." Which to me is the opposite of fun, engaging, interesting, etc... with most legendary mats they make some effort to disguise the cost, so it feels like an actual gameplay goal, instead of just another gold farm.

[Boogiepop Void.6473]

OK clearly people assume stupidity on the forums. I said I HAVE runecrafter, not that I ONLY USE runecrafter. Obviously blue and lower copper, green rune, yellow mystic, orange BL when available.

I was making the point that even the specialty kit for this purpose doers not return the items in high amounts.

 

Edited June 21, 2022 by Boogiepop Void.6473

[Bollocks.4078]

3 minutes ago, Labjax.2465 said:

My impression was this is on purpose to inflate the cost of making Legendary Runes and Sigils, which would otherwise be some of the cheapest legendaries in the game. Not that I agree with it, but I figured that's why.

 

But symbols and charms are used for all runes and sigils so it inflates the price of those as well.  If that's why they did it then they needed to find a better way that didn't have as much impact Superior, Major and Minor runes and sigils.

[Labjax.2465]

4 minutes ago, Bollocks.4078 said:

 

But symbols and charms are used for all runes and sigils so it inflates the price of those as well.  If that's why they did it then they needed to find a better way that didn't have as much impact Superior, Major and Minor runes and sigils.

No disagreement here.

[Cyninja.2954]

Looking at this from an economic perspective:

- all symbols and charms trade at above 0 or above close to 0

- all symbols and charms trade at a rate where most players can affors to trade them  or trade for them on the trading post

- there is some disparity in value, likely based around what they are used for, between individual symbols/runes

- there is a repurposing system in place which allows conversion between different types of runes/symbols which keep disparity of said value in check

Seems fine to me. If symbols/charms were slightly less rare, their value on the trading post would take a nosedive. Make them slightly rarer, and prices would explode.

Right now, they are a commodity which is actually beneficial to the trading post as well as the ingame economy (because all trade via the TP removes gold). 

I get that some of the solo artists out there might disagree here, but this still remains to some extent a MMORPG where a functioning economy is beneficial to ALL players.

Edited June 21, 2022 by Cyninja.2954

[ardhikaizecson.3697]

I just finished 6 legendary runes and sigil and boy those were the most expensive legendary I've crafted. Never again thankfully. With that gold and effort I could've crafted at least 2 leg weapons.

[Strider Pj.2193]

10 minutes ago, ardhikaizecson.3697 said:

I just finished 6 legendary runes and sigil and boy those were the most expensive legendary I've crafted. Never again thankfully. With that gold and effort I could've crafted at least 2 leg weapons.

Which is why I had three different weights of legendary armor and 6 legendary weapons before I started in those.  
 

Also, I have 6 runes and 2 sigil.  Taking my time on the other two sigils.  When I have enough of the symbols, I’ll craft it.  Not until then.

Edited June 21, 2022 by Strider Pj.2193

[Hotride.2187]

Weird, I have 50+ from each, aside from symbol of control. And I crafted 4 legendary sigils like a month ago (ofc I still had to buy a ton of each). I only salvage like 100 greens and 20 rares a day. No idea how you have so few if you salvage entire stacks daily.

Edited June 21, 2022 by Hotride.2187

[Khisanth.2948]

The expected number of charms/symbols from ...

a stack of greens is 4.75 if you identify all of them before salvaging the amount should be 4.9555

a stack of rares is 9.75

a stack of exotics is 22.5

If you are not getting numbers along those lines then something is wrong. For example results might be different for unidentified.

If you were salvaging 2 stacks of green(identifying before salvaging) for a month then you should have an average of ((250*2*30)*.049555)/6 = 123.8875 of each symbol/charm.

If you have been doing it "all this time" implying 3 years then you should have more than you'll ever need.

 

On the other hand salvaging 2 stacks for 2 days is still "at least 2 stacks per day" ...

 

[SlayerXX.7138]

1 hour ago, ardhikaizecson.3697 said:

I just finished 6 legendary runes and sigil and boy those were the most expensive legendary I've crafted. Never again thankfully. With that gold and effort I could've crafted at least 2 leg weapons.

Yeah the whole set of sigils and runes is more costly then 1 legendary. Its uses gift of condensed magic and might. So that shouldn't be a surprise. It is a normal legendary recipe. The charms/symbols aren't the thing that make then overly pricey. They would actually be great value if they would have been better implemented.

Edit: Gift of Craftmanship can be costly, but only if you speedrun it.

Edited June 21, 2022 by Albi.7250

[Sobx.1758]

7 hours ago, Hotride.2187 said:

I only salvage like 100 greens and 20 rares a day. No idea how you have so few if you salvage entire stacks daily.

Yeah, OP's numbers of salvaged stacks DAILY compared to the number of symbols/charms he has in total seem to be completely made up kind of inaccurate.

Edited June 22, 2022 by Sobx.1758

[Lottie.5370]

Nah, they're fine as they are.

[Bollocks.4078]

18 hours ago, Khisanth.2948 said:

The expected number of charms/symbols from ...

a stack of greens is 4.75 if you identify all of them before salvaging the amount should be 4.9555

a stack of rares is 9.75

a stack of exotics is 22.5

If you are not getting numbers along those lines then something is wrong. For example results might be different for unidentified.

If you were salvaging 2 stacks of green(identifying before salvaging) for a month then you should have an average of ((250*2*30)*.049555)/6 = 123.8875 of each symbol/charm.

If you have been doing it "all this time" implying 3 years then you should have more than you'll ever need.

 

On the other hand salvaging 2 stacks for 2 days is still "at least 2 stacks per day" ...

 

Does that assume using a Runecrafter's Salvage-o-Matic?  Surely you wouldn't expect that yield from a crude salvage kit, right?

[Khisanth.2948]

1 hour ago, Bollocks.4078 said:

Does that assume using a Runecrafter's Salvage-o-Matic?  Surely you wouldn't expect that yield from a crude salvage kit, right?

Assuming 100% salvage rate since OP mentions using runecrafter and BL kit

Edited June 22, 2022 by Khisanth.2948

[Zohane.7208]

On 6/21/2022 at 2:45 PM, Boogiepop Void.6473 said:

Symbols and charms are far too rare. I never really noticed before since I wasn't using them much, but it's been almost 3 years since they were introduced to the game, I have the runecrafter salvage and use mystic and BL salvage kits, and I don't have even 50 of ANY of them despite having never used them. Given I salvage at least 2 stacks of greens and 1 stack of yellows PER DAY on average all this time (yes I mean open then salvage before anyone yells), that indicates a positively ludicrously low drop rate. I have literally only rolled about 20 of each. I am not saying they should be common, but this level of rarity is a bit ridiculous, only a bit better than precursor drops. And you can't even forge for it; they combine DOWN at 3-1, so the only way to actually accumulate is random drops.

Hm, I salvage a lot less than this - maybe 1/2 stack of green unids and 50 rares/day on average and the odd exotic (basic kits on greens, mystic on yellow, and blsk on exotics), and I have between 150 and 350 of each of the symbols and charms. Either I've been extremely lucky or you've been extremely unlucky.

[Rauderi.8706]

Seriously. It's kittening bonkers that there's an entire category in crafting for building Runes and Sigils, but the base materials are so laughably rare that it's never worth doing. 

[Sobx.1758]

1 hour ago, Zohane.7208 said:

Hm, I salvage a lot less than this - maybe 1/2 stack of green unids and 50 rares/day on average and the odd exotic (basic kits on greens, mystic on yellow, and blsk on exotics), and I have between 150 and 350 of each of the symbols and charms. Either I've been extremely lucky or you've been extremely unlucky.

Yeah, the OP's numbers just look like fiction.

Edited June 22, 2022 by Sobx.1758