Confirmed Quickness for Herald and Ventari rework

[Za Shaloc.3908]

25 minutes ago, Blood Red Arachnid.2493 said:

Am I the only one that thinks the ventari rework means they're removing alacrity from it?

 

Nah def not the only one. That's my impression too. Based on what they said on the Chrono changes it sounds like they want to separate it from giving both quickness & alacrity, so I can only imagine it'll be the same fate for Ventari since Herald will have quickness.

[Aeolus.3615]

19 hours ago, Scoobaniec.9561 said:

Ventari and Herald rework numba 95435883493. Ventari needs it clunky tablet go away along with orbs but in either case idc what they do with it even if it get deleted.

Herald most likely quickness on consuming facet but is it really what herald needs? Icd removal on shared empo, buff to forceful persistence to do 30% damage at -10 and sharing burst of strenght effect would do far better - ofc burst of strenght share never happening cuz anet want to homogenize classes which defeats the purpose of having them to begin with.

My real question is when they gonna buff Mallyx since the resistance rework and gutting torment runes annihilated him

Tablet needs to stay :P  u guys are missing so much u guys  of the effect that tablet has on combat... kinda reminds the thread saying jalis is selfish and provides ZERO support and its useless bla bla... 

On mallyx i kinda agree but condi builds tend to be easier to play so duno which direction would Mallyx should go to compensate the recent changes/losses, probably i would sugest that Mal would consume torment from alies to empower itself and better soft CC skills.

Edited June 24, 2022 by Aeolus.3615

[Sahne.6950]

17 hours ago, DanAlcedo.3281 said:

Saying that Ventari was "always usefull" is just copium.

When was the last time you have seen one in wvw? For me, that was over a year ago and it was me.

It was always a C tier at best build that players play for fun for a week and then think " Ha, that was fun. But let me play an actaul good build."

yup i am playing Ventari Renegade almost every day in WvW... hella overpowered. But people just cant handle the tablet. If you actually play it with some braincells its probably the strongest roamer at the moment, simply because the projectilehate counter all of the EoD specs.

Dont believe me? go to Guildjen and check out the build.. its INSANE. (sigils on the build are outdated! use tormenting and Strength sigils on bow)

Edited June 24, 2022 by Sahne.6950

[Sahne.6950]

8 minutes ago, Aeolus.3615 said:

Tablet needs to stay 😛 u guys are missing so much u guys  are missing the effect that tablet has on combat... kinda reminds the thread saying jalis is selfish and provides ZERO support and its useless bla bla... 

On mallyx i kinda agree but condi builds tend to be easier to play so duno which direction would Mallyx should go....

if they would remove tablet... i would be crying for sure!

[Aeolus.3615]

34 minutes ago, Sahne.6950 said:

yup i am playing Ventari Renegade almost every day in WvW... hella overpowered. But people just cant handle the tablet. If you actually play it with some braincells its probably the strongest roamer at the moment, simply because the projectilehate counter all of the EoD specs.

Dont believe me? go to Guildjen and check out the build.. its INSANE.

Well tablet isn't clunky if u have the right binds, like Q to move tablet, E to the tablet heal etc etc, it becomes quite flowy after some usage, throw tablet left and support use shield or staff to keep supporting on local or other location apart from tablet, move tablet again to where is needed etc.

Ventari is very well balanced in terms how strong its heal (wish i could have the 10k aoe heals form pve in WvW actually xD)and trade offs work,  apart from 25% of its traits that are useless lol.... like the orbs/staff  line, still i prefer Herald for its very good regen, prot, fury and other over 1k passive heals and this while in mainly still having power arround 2k or above.

One thing that i dont like form Ren utils is that they can get disabled with KB/KD's, sometimes i use my tablet elite or herald elite to play ping pong with enemy spirits and other alies also doing the KB skills on spirits, IDK if its a bug and not intended but it has been more than documented and talked here on forum, also if ui recall doesnt work every time.

 

@Sahne.6950 :  Anet alreadt made me move out from Guardian and Druid, i would uninstall the game for ever if they would kill another gameplay.

I dont play spam low effort support :P, i dont even want to use minstrell im not that lamer (delete minstrell plz xD). 

Edited June 24, 2022 by Aeolus.3615

[Sahne.6950]

47 minutes ago, Aeolus.3615 said:

Well tablet isn't clunky if u have the right binds, like Q to move tablet, E to the tablet heal etc etc, it becomes quite flowy after some usage, throw tablet left and support use shield or staff to keep supporting on local or other location apart from tablet, move tablet again to where is needed etc.

Ventari is very well balanced in terms how strong its heal (wish i could have the 10k aoe heals form pve in WvW actually xD)and trade offs work,  apart from 25% of its traits that are useless lol.... like the orbs/staff  line, still i prefer Herald for its very good regen, prot, fury and other over 1k passive heals and this while in mainly still having power arround 2k or above.

One thing that i dont like form Ren utils is that they can get disabled with KB/KD's, sometimes i use my tablet elite or herald elite to play ping pong with enemy spirits and other alies also doing the KB skills on spirits, IDK if its a bug and not intended but it has been more than documented and talked here on forum, also if ui recall doesnt work every time.

 

@Sahne.6950 :  Anet alreadt made me move out from Guardian and Druid, i would uninstall the game for ever if they would kill another gameplay.

I dont play spam low effort support :P, i dont even want to use minstrell im not that lamer (delete minstrell plz xD). 

Tablet is not clunky at all, especially if you have Alac. I move the tablet with my thumbbutton on my mouse.

[Aeolus.3615]

1 minute ago, Sahne.6950 said:

Tablet is not clunky at all, especially if you have Alac. I move the tablet with my thumbbutton on my mouse.

Which im expecting tablet to loose alac on 28 june update >_> in favour or other boons, fun fact is tablet could aply aoe might with alac, if Anet increases the boons aplyance on tablet  it will be a might factory.

IT is sad to read that dev's kidna screw all over again more boon on a game already where boon are a issue and over saturated the gameplay...  :(

Edited June 24, 2022 by Aeolus.3615

[vilesoldier.9826]

On 6/23/2022 at 12:56 AM, Dahkeus.8243 said:

I am excited...but also a little worried because Draconic Echo is currently a very big trait for a lot of Herald builds and if adding quickness to that trait means that they change or take away the ability to maintain passives after use of active consumes, then it could end up being an overall negative; particularly in PvP/WvW.

 

But, until we have details, I'll try to stay a bit optimistic.  This does at least sound great from a PvE perspective.

LOL they actually kept the previous effects! 😂😂😂

[Nyel.1843]

• Ancient Echo: This skill now grants regeneration instead of alacrity in Legendary Centaur Stance.
• Rejuvenating Assault: This skill no longer creates healing orbs and instead heals allies around the revenant.

And Healing Orbs are gone. Almost. 

Edited June 24, 2022 by Nyel.1843

[felix.2386]

yep, power herald is gonna be sick! oh baby

[felix.2386]

1 hour ago, Nyel.1843 said:

• Ancient Echo: This skill now grants regeneration instead of alacrity in Legendary Centaur Stance.
• Rejuvenating Assault: This skill no longer creates healing orbs and instead heals allies around the revenant.

And Healing Orbs are gone. Almost. 

i liked the orbs tho, it gave something interesting to play with..could've increased orb healing....

i liked picking up orbs when aaing with staff in pvp. it gave some flavor and nothing crucial. bringing the already fun builds to even more fun also higher skill ceiling.

[otto.5684]

20 minutes ago, felix.2386 said:

yep, power herald is gonna be sick! oh baby

Not it would not. Even with 100% boon duration and using Facet of Nature of CD, you might get 80% uptime on quickness, with nothing else, since you have to activate facets on CD. And mind you, you will be doing this while dealing much less damage.

 

In addition, increasing the CD of burst of strength by 3 secs will probably net a negative to overall damage, even with forceful persistence buff. 
 

I dunno about Centaur and Salvation changes, but these changes won’t make Herald a viable support or dps. They are essentially useless.

Edited June 24, 2022 by otto.5684

[Atomnium.1532]

Using all facets and not even touching facet of nature is 1.75sec cast under quickness, provides 7.5 seconds of quickness with 0% boon duration every 8 seconds as swap legends. Either you cannot count or I'm missing something because you'd need literrally 6.7% boon duration to have 100% quickness uptime which is actually baked in the herald spec. You can full berserker and provide 100% quickness.

Edited June 24, 2022 by Atomnium.1532

[felix.2386]

31 minutes ago, otto.5684 said:

Not it would not. Even with 100% boon duration and using Facet of Nature of CD, you might get 80% uptime on quickness, with nothing else, since you have to activate facets on CD. And mind you, you will be doing this while dealing much less damage.

 

In addition, increasing the CD of burst of strength by 3 secs will probably net a negative to overall damage, even with forceful persistence buff. 
 

I dunno about Centaur and Salvation changes, but these changes won’t make Herald a viable support or dps. They are essentially useless.

ehh, i don't care pve. the build isnt fun in pve anyway, in fact herald is boring in pve. renegade is way more fun in pve

Edited June 24, 2022 by felix.2386

[Obtena.7952]

Weird changes for quickness ... do all that work, don't give the spec 100% uptime for team buff. That's literally the only requirement any team has to fulfill these roles Anet has created. 

As for Salvation changes ... these are really good IMO. Gives some option in Salvation for abusing dodging outside of healing builds. 

[otto.5684]

46 minutes ago, Atomnium.1532 said:

Using all facets and not even touching facet of nature is 1.75sec cast under quickness, provides 7.5 seconds of quickness with 0% boon duration every 8 seconds as swap legends. Either you cannot count or I'm missing something because you'd need literrally 6.7% boon duration to have 100% quickness uptime which is actually baked in the herald spec. You can full berserker and provide 100% quickness.

Are you talking group quickness or personal quickness? Personal quickness, duh, there are tons of sources. Vindicator can literally do it with 1 button. Group quickness, no, the herald trait provides 1.5 sec quickness. If you have 100% boon duration that is 3 secs. Excluding the healing, that is 3 secs every 15 secs x 3, for the 3 utilities (after the changes) and 3 secs every 20 secs for elite. 10.5/15 secs. Facet of nature will add 2.25 secs every 15 secs. Best you can do is 13.75/15 secs. And that is assuming perfect execution, which won’t happen. And you will be sacrificing duration on all other boons and good chunk of damage. While FB slots FB runes, running full condi dps, and calls it a day. 

[UncreativeGreen.2019]

Is there a chance that they just worded it weirdly and they meant that the 1.5s of quickness isn't just on the activation, but also on the following pulses? I mean I sure hope they designed it that way cause then it actually ties into the trait they paired it with, but who knows until Tuesday.

[Aeolus.3615]

16 hours ago, UncreativeGreen.2019 said:

Is there a chance that they just worded it weirdly and they meant that the 1.5s of quickness isn't just on the activation, but also on the following pulses? I mean I sure hope they designed it that way cause then it actually ties into the trait they paired it with, but who knows until Tuesday.

Nope, on consume of facets only, that would be super broken tho.

[Jthug.9506]

Well with so much outgoing healing just straight up deleted rip to any flavor of heal rev. I guess you might be able to play some scuffed condi quickness herald but why? Revenant like warrior is now just another mediocre dps class. GG anet.

Edited June 27, 2022 by Jthug.9506

[Aeolus.3615]

19 hours ago, Jthug.9506 said:

Well with so much outgoing healing just straight up deleted rip to any flavor of heal rev. I guess you might be able to play some scuffed condi quickness herald but why? Herald like warrior is now just a mediocre dps option. GG anet.

some trait will still give 20% outgoing heal and Anet stated that heal from tablet big heal gona be increased, i dont expect much diference from its values overal.

The heal on tablet move was to small to make any change having it as 0 heal or 700 it was always the same effect,  good thing they  reduced its CD and intead of increasing tablet move CD they touched the blind and added a ICD instead(blind ventari trait had no ICD) this finnaly was a nice move.

The negative point ic with this change is minstrell(the stat that should be removed from game) makes now way more sense and its way stronger  on ventari..... i dont like when minstrell stats become stronger that will make wvw more minstrell stacking >_>

 

P.S Minstrells is for noobs

Edited June 26, 2022 by Aeolus.3615

[Jthug.9506]

On 6/26/2022 at 9:42 AM, Aeolus.3615 said:

some trait will still give 20% outgoing heal and Anet stated that heal from tablet big heal gona be increased, i dont expect much diference from its values overal.

The heal on tablet move was to small to make any change having it as 0 heal or 700 it was always the same effect,  good thing they  reduced its CD and intead of increasing tablet move CD they touched the blind and added a ICD instead(blind ventari trait had no ICD) this finnaly was a nice move.

The negative point ic with this change is minstrell(the stat that should be removed from game) makes now way more sense and its way stronger  on ventari..... i dont like when minstrell stats become stronger that will make wvw more minstrell stacking >_>

 

P.S Minstrells is for noobs

We are loosing the vast majority of the outgoing healing from salvation and half of what remains depends on swapping legends off cooldown which is terrible for herald in particular, maybe the one big tablet heal will be in the same ballpark as it was but that’s not what hurts. Most of the time the big tablet heal over heals and is wasted, what hurts is that non ventari healing just got gutted as well as staff4 and shield4.
 

If they want to remove that much outgoing healing they would have to do a complete overhaul of every rev elite spec plus weapon heals and bump all the coefficients, not just a single tablet skill. Whoever made these changes apparently had no idea how much rev healing depends on those outgoing heal traits, or they did know and just felt that revenant healing was way overpowered and needed to die. I’m more inclined to believe the former based on all the other clueless choices made in this patch.

Edited June 27, 2022 by Jthug.9506

[Jthug.9506]

On 6/24/2022 at 3:11 PM, otto.5684 said:

Are you talking group quickness or personal quickness? Personal quickness, duh, there are tons of sources. Vindicator can literally do it with 1 button. Group quickness, no, the herald trait provides 1.5 sec quickness. If you have 100% boon duration that is 3 secs. Excluding the healing, that is 3 secs every 15 secs x 3, for the 3 utilities (after the changes) and 3 secs every 20 secs for elite. 10.5/15 secs. Facet of nature will add 2.25 secs every 15 secs. Best you can do is 13.75/15 secs. And that is assuming perfect execution, which won’t happen. And you will be sacrificing duration on all other boons and good chunk of damage. While FB slots FB runes, running full condi dps, and calls it a day. 

Actually if you activate the f2 and never consume it it contributes 20% extra boon duration to you and 9 friends which can actually overcap boon duration up to 120%. I ran the numbers on this Saturday and if you consume every facet other than f2 off cooldown you only need about 80% boon duration from gear. The bigger issue is that #1 you are strictly worse at dps or healing than other quickness providers because of both the high boon duration required as well as the colossal outgoing healing nerfs hitting the salvation line. And #2 you can’t use your heal or cc/super speed tactically as utility because it’s got to get used off cooldown to maintain quickness, which other quickness providers don’t have to compromise on.

 

I personally would be willing to live with that 2nd part but they should double the base duration so that we at least don’t have to further kitten our selves by running any boon duration gear. But even if they did that the dps/quickness option would still be mediocre and the heal/quickness option might still be so bad as to not be viable. And that’s maybe ok if the rest of the comp can be structured to take full advantage of having permanent facet of nature dragon giving everyone an extra 20% free boon duration.

Edited June 27, 2022 by Jthug.9506

[Aeolus.3615]

40 minutes ago, Jthug.9506 said:

We are loosing the vast majority of the outgoing healing from salvation and half of what remains depends on swapping legends off cooldown which is terrible for herald in particular, maybe the one big tablet heal will be in the same ballpark as it was but that’s not what hurts. Most of the time the big tablet heal over heals and is wasted, what hurts is that non ventari healing just got gutted as well as staff4 and shield4.
 

If they want to remove that much outgoing healing they would have to do a complete overhaul of every rev elite spec plus weapon heals and bump all the coefficients, not just a single tablet skill. Whoever made these changes apparently had no idea how much rev healing depends on those outgoing heal traits, or they did know and just felt that revenant healing was way overpowered and needed to die. I’m more inclined to believe the former based on all the other clueless choices made in this patch.

It is strange cause we are loosing only part of it but Nature harmony is also getting buffed for what i read, so i assume it is arround the same value or hoping for a slightly buff :} (every centaur can dream)

Loosing the heal on tablet move is no big deal either its not 600 700 hp that  will save some 1.

Edited June 27, 2022 by Aeolus.3615

[Jthug.9506]

Selfless amplification and tranquil balance are out which depending on how much healing power you have is as much as 46.5% outgoing healing, serene rejuvenation gets an extra 5% and invoking harmony remains. So all together well more than half the outgoing healing bonus got murdered and invoking harmony requires you to strictly swap legends off cooldown, which means you loose any tangible group benefits of giving your squad facet of nature dragon because it can only be up half the time making it difficult and unrealistic to optimize their gear around. 

From the perspective of pre eod heal herald camping glint to give your friends boon duration, this salvation rework sent you from 61.5% outgoing healing bonus down to just 20%. With gear and food wrench the total pre nerf outgoing healing was about 121.5% and will now drop to 81.5%, a 33% reduction. But to give quickness you also have to loose 366 healing power (26.5%) to pickup enough boon duration. If my regen ticks on party members used to be about 1.3k I would expect no more than 789 now, staff 4 used to hit for 5.5k probably 3k now, similarly for shield 4. Additionally to actually give quickness a heal herald is giving up elevated compassion which used to be about a quarter of their passive healing. Omega nerf.

And don’t forget this is also a 33% outgoing healing nerf to the renegade heal skill and all the healing from legendary alliance as well with zero compensation for those heal builds. To speak nothing of the fact that alac heal vindicator just got deleted.

Edited June 27, 2022 by Jthug.9506

[Jthug.9506]

I just tested the regen in 80% bd gear with Dwayna runes which is the best possible scenario, personal regen is 427 per tick, should be 789 on allies. That’s about a 40% reduction in regen power between the gear and salvation nerfs from today’s heal herald to tomorrow’s quickness heal herald. And you can’t understate the impact of being forced out of elevated compassion either, that had been at least 1/4 of the passive healing so the actual hit for gearing and traiting a quick heal herald post salvation nerf is an over 50% reduction in passive healing potential camping glint. Even if you abandon the concept of camping glint, no amount of tablet buffs can justify this, your party will go down every time you swap back to herald to make quickness.

Edited June 27, 2022 by Jthug.9506