Owp nerfs details + core weapon updates.

[Abyssisis.3971]

I reckon it will be a big waste of time that won’t change anything from the longbow/greatsword dominated core weapons.

Edited June 30, 2022 by Abyssisis.3971

[torvath.8621]

IMO these little quick fixes don't make up for gutting SLBs stances. Don't get me wrong, it's nice now our AA LB will actually do damage and not hurt the DPS while waiting to swap back to GS/Ax....but that doesn't change the fact the skill ceiling for SLB has been lowered just bc some people could understand the timing to use OTP

[Abyssisis.3971]

2 minutes ago, torvath.8621 said:

IMO these little quick fixes don't make up for gutting SLBs stances. Don't get me wrong, it's nice now our AA LB will actually do damage and not hurt the DPS while waiting to swap back to GS/Ax....but that doesn't change the fact the skill ceiling for SLB has been lowered just bc some people could understand the timing to use OTP

It’s a token buff to say they have done something. They claim it’s to increase sustain damage, yet only selected skills got bare minimal coefficient increases.

[Dante.1508]

Ranger

Longbow

• Long Range Shot: Increased damage multiplier from 0.7-0.9 to 0.9-1.1 in PvE only.

Greatsword

• Slash: Increased damage multiplier from 0.64 to 0.8 in PvE only.
• Enduring Swing: Increased damage multiplier from 1.3 to 1.4 in PvE only.

Short Bow

• Crossfire: Increased damage multiplier from 0.4 to 0.5 in PvE only. Bleed duration when not flanking increased from 1.5 seconds to 2 seconds in PvE only.
• Poison Volley: Damage multiplier per hit increased from 0.25 to 0.3 in PvE only.

Axe (Main Hand)

• Ricochet: Damage multiplier increased from 0.8 to 0.9 in PvE only.
• Splitblade: Damage multiplier per hit increased from 0.1 to 0.5 in PvE only.
• Winter's Bite: Damage multiplier increased from 1.25 to 1.8 in PvE only.

Sword

• Slash: Damage multiplier increased from 0.7 to 0.8 in PvE only.
• Crippling Thrust: Damage multiplier increased from 0.7 to 0.8 in PvE only.
• Precision Swipe: Damage multiplier increased from 0.96 to 1.4 in PvE only.
• Monarch's Leap: Damage multiplier increased from 1.25 to 1.8 in PvE only.
• Serpent's Strike: Damage multiplier increased from 0.8 to 1.5 in PvE only.

Dagger (Off Hand)

• Crippling Talon: Damage multiplier increased from 0.75 to 0.9 in PvE only.

 

While nice still wont fix those destroyed spirits..

[Substance E.4852]

The fact that they think increasing the damage on sword 2 and 3 will matter at all demonstrates that people who don't even use the class are still at the steering wheel

Gonna be pretty funny if people crunch the numbers and everyone ends up using axe main in melee range now that split blade isn't completely worthless on a power build and sword drops off the serious PvE radar entirely

Edited July 1, 2022 by Substance E.4852

[Abyssisis.3971]

1 hour ago, Substance E.4852 said:

The fact that they think increasing the damage on sword 2 and 3 will matter at all demonstrates that people who don't even use the class are still at the steering wheel

Gonna be pretty funny if people crunch the numbers and everyone ends up using axe main in melee range now that split blade isn't completely worthless on a power build and sword drops off the serious PvE radar entirely

Is sword even used in pve? Lol I only use it in pvp where when I leap for the nodes. 

[Substance E.4852]

32 minutes ago, Abyssisis.3971 said:

Is sword even used in pve? Lol I only use it in pvp where when I leap for the nodes. 

I don't think it ever beat out dagger for total BIS performance (maybe right at PoF launch when dagger was trash) but it was comparable

Getting the same damage but with no drop off when kiting and having more aoe is gonna make it totally obsolete

It's pretty much the only reason that split blade did great damage in pvp but not in pve. I can't even name another skill that worked like that.

After this update, I doubt anyone will ever use it in pve other than for roleplay like dagger offhand

Edited July 1, 2022 by Substance E.4852

[anduriell.6280]

Useless changes. 

[BumboJumbo.1308]

40 minutes ago, anduriell.6280 said:

Useless changes. 

What about these changes are useless? This helps people that have trouble making a build easier for them to be able to do damage.

What is your ideal world of ranger balance if not this?

[anduriell.6280]

20 minutes ago, BumboJumbo.1308 said:

What about these changes are useless? This helps people that have trouble making a build easier for them to be able to do damage.

What is your ideal world of ranger balance if not this?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Dadnir.5038]

OWP was nerfed because there were complain in competitive mode due to it's burst potential. (People were crying that they were "one shot" on their WvW mounts).

Bringing up some core weapon's skills damage mod in PvE to compensate for the damage lost is a pretty smart solution. Even better is the fact that it actually buff all specs, not just soulbeast.

I'm pretty sure everyone here is aware that it's pretty difficult for any ranger e-spec to be competitive in damage against soulbeast, the only way to bridge this gap is to nerf soulbeast and then raise the ranger's foundation. Which is what they've done here even if it might not be quite there yet.

 

[Beddo.1907]

I don't know what different changes everyone expected after 2 days post major patch.

[Sirius.4510]

48 minutes ago, Dadnir.5038 said:

OWP was nerfed because there were complain in competitive mode due to it's burst potential. (People were crying that they were "one shot" on their WvW mounts).

You'd think, but the OWP nerf applied to PvE only (or at least that's what the patch notes said; I confess I haven't played WvW in the last week so they could be wrong for all I know).

 

5 hours ago, Substance E.4852 said:

After this update, I doubt anyone will ever use it in pve other than for roleplay like dagger offhand

Yeah, given the deprecation of burst damage (which sword was supposedly better at) I'm not sure it'll have much of a place; but dagger offhand is at least used for condition builds. I don't think that changed with this rebalance, unless shortbow is now better DPS than axe/dagger and not just easier to use.

[BumboJumbo.1308]

1 hour ago, anduriell.6280 said:

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Do you think that maybe - just maybe - that your suggestions don't work in practice? 

Anet has all the tools to put the theory into practice, but you don't.

Also, could it also be possible that your suggestions don't take into account pve and pvp at the same time in relation to theory to practice?

[The Boz.2038]

Nerfing OWP interval to 1s was a good idea. It was hyper-performing only thanks to a few skills, but was real crap if used ouside of trap-pulsing+axe5+rapidfire or stuff like that. Reducing cooldown was also good, considering this. Increasing the power multiplier, also good.

HOWEVER, reducing the duration was bad. The skill can situationally be useful now, but only because you don't have anything better to put in that slot. 

Stanceshare is a "unique buff" that must go, I'm afraid. If not, OWP and other stances will forever be constrained by the "potential" of five allies doing it, swinging the balance up wildly.

[Dadnir.5038]

27 minutes ago, Sirius.4510 said:

You'd think, but the OWP nerf applied to PvE only (or at least that's what the patch notes said; I confess I haven't played WvW in the last week so they could be wrong for all I know).

It wouldn't be surprising that they did a nerf in PvE due to competitive modes complains. After all, they did the necromancer's shroud damage reduction nerf in PvE while it was asked for competitive modes. We shouldn't test the devs' logic, we would just lose our mind trying.

All I see is that they've done a step in the right direction with this change as it contribute to bridge the gap between soulbeast and the other e-spec.

Edited July 1, 2022 by Dadnir.5038

[Zyreva.1078]

1 hour ago, Dadnir.5038 said:

All I see is that they've done a step in the right direction with this change as it contribute to bridge the gap between soulbeast and the other e-spec.

Except they didn't. And it's not only the gap between untamed and soulbeast they would have to bridge, the gap to other specs out there is even bigger ...

But they already said untamed is too difficult to play and they don't want difficult builds to be good, so they are working on dumbing it down first, before making it better.

(OWP does not appear to be nerfed in WvW/PvP btw)

Edited July 1, 2022 by UmbraNoctis.1907

[Canidae Canis.2861]

This is the beginning of a fix that has been needed on Ranger for a looooong time. Soulbeast set the bar artificially high with the Sic 'em + OWP + lb2/axe5 combos that allowed for insane burst in small windows, but low-moderate DPS outside of that window. It created the place we've been in since POF - no other ranger spec, Untamed included, can compete with Soulbeast for damage. Toning down that combo and buffing Ranger's weapon damage should help to bring the other specs up - Thanks Anet. I'll mention that I still think Untamed needs a major rework, augmenting weapon damage isn't going to fix them.

In addition to continuing to balance Ranger damage via weapon skills, a rework of some of our utilities would be a fantastic next step. Our Signets are largely useless, Traps are underwhelming, and I would still love to see Spirits actually overhauled into utilities that don't require babysitting. As it stands right now Spirits feel more like Druid's unique utilities instead of Glyphs, since they are the only spec that can really keep them alive.

[Euthymias.7984]

1 hour ago, Canidae Canis.2861 said:

This is the beginning of a fix that has been needed on Ranger for a looooong time. Soulbeast set the bar artificially high with the Sic 'em + OWP + lb2/axe5 combos that allowed for insane burst in small windows, but low-moderate DPS outside of that window. It created the place we've been in since POF - no other ranger spec, Untamed included, can compete with Soulbeast for damage

Being good in some instances but average/not optimal in others is "artificially setting the bar" for something?

 

I just see it as part of that style of play's identity - how it delivers damage and all that being tied to short interval bursts that can supplement allies but with windows where the damage goes down between them (unless you play condi).

That is something unique to the way this version plays it. That is a reason to consider it for those fights where that sort of play shines. There is (again)a condi build and Untamed if you want more "persistent" DPS where there aren't those short windows, so why should power bursting be thrown out?

If they want Untamed to be good enough, all it has to do is bring a consistent amount of solid damage +  the utility of CC for the encounters or fights where that matters, or something that is also valuable to the party while dealing damage. That could have easily been its niche, but nerfing Soulbeast just because others can't compete for something its specifically good at (damage spikes) really just rubs me the wrong way

But hey, if you just want the spec to be green weaver that has to somehow consistently flank in instances to upkeep its damage, there's good news:
 

 

Edited July 1, 2022 by Euthymias.7984

[Canidae Canis.2861]

36 minutes ago, Euthymias.7984 said:

Being good in some instances but average/not optimal in others is "artificially setting the bar" for something?

 

I just see it as part of that style of play's identity - how it delivers damage and all that being tied to short interval bursts that can supplement allies but with windows where the damage goes down between them (unless you play condi).

Soulbeast set the bar too high is essentially what I'm getting at. Its ability to produce massive damage spikes in short windows is indeed fun and part of the identity - no argument there. But it just does it too well. You can't bring up the utility or core weapon skills of Ranger without inflating Soulbeast's burst damage even more. Any changes you would make to increase core damage is just multiplied by the Sic'em + OWP combo, resulting in Soulbeast still being on top. In short, they can't make the other Ranger specs more viable unless they bring down the unique abilities that allow Soulbeast burst. The burst combo will still exist, just tamped down a bit to allow better maintenance dps when not bursting.

[Substance E.4852]

2 hours ago, Canidae Canis.2861 said:

It created the place we've been in since POF - no other ranger spec, Untamed included, can compete with Soulbeast for damage.

Okay and?

Soulbeast offers nothing but damage now

Druid is a healbot and untamed will probably end up as a "good for pvp and spamming alacrity in pve with middling damage slot"

Are ranger players just not supposed to ever roll dps again? They aren't going to buff up vanilla and untamed to "meta" benchmarks, especially not after giving us perma alac on untamed with hammer stun spam

[Euthymias.7984]

45 minutes ago, Canidae Canis.2861 said:

But it just does it too well.

Oh no, its good in places where its good...imagine wanting that for Ranger of all specs and a niche build at that 

Quote

You can't bring up the utility or core weapon skills of Ranger without inflating Soulbeast's burst damage even more. Any changes you would make to increase core damage is just multiplied by the Sic'em + OWP combo, resulting in Soulbeast still being on top.

Yes, you absolutely can if it became a problem by tweaking Soulbeast specific modifiers gently without killing the utility of sharing the damage out to your party. 

Quote

In short, they can't make the other Ranger specs more viable unless they bring down the unique abilities that allow Soulbeast burst.

Maybe the other Ranger Specializations should bring their own things to the table that are also desirable in certain instances, like Soulbeast's spike for short-windowed fights? Raw damage alone isn't gonna put you in a meta comp, or Weaver and Soulbeast would have been a top pick for EoD strikes and the like over just being serviceable, especially as more and more encounters move away from favoring burst to being much longer.

Quote

The burst combo will still exist, just tamped down a bit to allow better maintenance dps when not bursting.

Yeah, except all you do is damage and little else for your group. Thats why I called it green weaver earlier. Lets not even pretend stance share is ever gonna be a thing past this either.

Edited July 1, 2022 by Euthymias.7984

[soul.9651]

Stop crying already, power slb is already at 37k+ after these changes which is pretty darn good. 

[Euthymias.7984]

9 minutes ago, soul.9651 said:

Stop crying already, power slb is already at 37k+ after these changes which is pretty darn good. 

A selfish spec with 0 utility that  benches well (while flanking) is a good thing?

 

Sheeeeeeit, wrap it up, fellas. Soulbeast is saved

[RainbowTurtle.3542]

From a purely DPS perspective, the axe changes have been useful. They've helped get power soulbeast's bench up to around 40k, according to some snowcrows folks.

 

Greatsword and longbow... either should've had different skills buffed in damage or skill speed increased.

 

Spirits still dookie.