The main takeaway message from these 25-30k dps auto attack builds

[Karagee.6830]

21 hours ago, Deepcuts.9740 said:

Keep hearing this BS about 30k+ mech auto attack and I just want to say that it is just that, pure BS.
Last week and this week did my raids with lots of mechs. Most Mechanist DPS were using "standard" builds, but the actual damage was between 15K (sometimes even less) and 35K (with spikes to even more). So a big difference.

Tried using only auto attack and my DPS was very bad.
Did my rotations and things improved a lot.

This only tells me that positioning, fight knowledge, uptime, dodging when you have to and actual skills plays a big role in this.

I agree that the rotation does not require a piano degree, but then again should it? I am trying to play a game and actually enjoy my time, not getting carpal syndrome.

I suppose the 31.5k+ logs with autoattacks on a medium golem before the panic emergency nerf were all fake then

Edited July 5, 2022 by Karagee.6830

[Endaris.1452]

On 7/3/2022 at 7:19 PM, draxynnic.3719 said:

Clicking shouldn't impact dodging - if anything, it might make dodging easier because you're not trying to do as much with your WASD hand. The problem with clicking is that it slows down your skill use.

Unless they dodge by clicking on their endurance bar. 😅

I feel like most people that are skill clicking are skill clicking a lot and not for reasons of having too many keys.

Having one or two skills that you skillclick as a standard isn't a problem but there are players that skillclick about everything. When I played more WvW there was a player joining my WvW guild playing elementalist and they said they couldn't do the combo for long range meteor showers - turned out they skill clicked all their skills which made this combo super difficult to execute (albeit not impossible).

 

I think most people that skillclick will also either dodge by double-tapping their movement skill which has a higher delay due to the required extra input or even do the aforementioned think and click on their endurance bar and both of these will make effective dodging a lot harder, less rewarding and as a result probably less used and practiced as well.

[Bookah pls.9352]

20 hours ago, Deepcuts.9740 said:

Keep hearing this BS about 30k+ mech auto attack and I just want to say that it is just that, pure BS.
Last week and this week did my raids with lots of mechs. Most Mechanist DPS were using "standard" builds, but the actual damage was between 15K (sometimes even less) and 35K (with spikes to even more). So a big difference.

Tried using only auto attack and my DPS was very bad.
Did my rotations and things improved a lot.

This only tells me that positioning, fight knowledge, uptime, dodging when you have to and actual skills plays a big role in this.

I agree that the rotation does not require a piano degree, but then again should it? I am trying to play a game and actually enjoy my time, not getting carpal syndrome.

Had the same experience today, coworker was complaining about this big mess in one of the rooms that they had to clean up earlier, don't know what they were talking about, i went into the room later on and there was no mess at all???

[JusticeRetroHunter.7684]

21 hours ago, Raizel.8175 said:

I don't really understand some people here. Do we really want easy "smash your skull onto your keyboard" builds perform better than builds with more complex rotations?

The problem is that if you reward more complex rotations than those that are not, then elitist players will want you to play those more complex builds and to be honest not everyone likes playing classes with 40 buttons to press and remember.

 

the problem is a creation of the elite community and the forces of entropy that come from that. 
 

However one issue with Anet is the lack of understanding how simple abilities can be used in complex manner. Good example: 1 skill being used in 30 different ways, va 30 skills being used in 1 way. Both of these things have the same level of complexity to them and arguably the first way is much more desirable. The problem anet has is making skills simple in every way: 1 skill with only 1 way to use them. That’s the absolute worst possible way to make the game because it limits its potential complexity.

 

You can think of that complexity like the gap between the floor and ceiling for a certain skill. Skill A which can be used in 30 different ways has a high ceiling, and a low floor. 
 

conversely, a class with 30 skills and can only be used 1 way each, is equivalent to 1 skill being used only 1 way… bad design.

Edited July 5, 2022 by JusticeRetroHunter.7684

[Kuma.1503]

13 hours ago, Paradoxoglanis.1904 said:

The problem isnt that LI builds exist. The problem is that anet is forcing entire classes to be LI and designing their content around  that. And if someone cant handle combat mechanics while doing a simple rotation they cant handle it when auto attacking. Most of the time when I see a new player struggling in a meta event they arent even attacking at all. They are just running around trying not to die in all the BS aoe and boss mechanics. They have no idea what is going on because the encounters themselves are so poorly designed and overwhelming. Yet anet feels they have to make them this way otherwise they are trivial for veterans who know to stack in a blob and spam out boons and barrier.

This would be a valid concern if it had any bearing in reality. 

What class or elite spec is being forced into LI?

 

Herald?

It has a power AA build, but, If played well, It has to manage energy, legend swaps, weapon swaps to staff for breakbar phases, and if giving quickness, press facets on cooldown to upkeep quickness. It can also add in some skillful use of road stability, ventari bubbles, boon rips, knockbacks, and mallyx pulls depening on the encounters needs, all of which increase the skill cap. 

 Mirage?

 You can play S/S by simply auto attacking and dodging on cooldown, but you have the option to make optimal use of shatters, mirage mirrors, blinking and jaunting back onto the boss, running axe for additional dps if using 2 mesmers. 

You can also play the much more challenging condi mirage build which has to have boss mechanics memorized in order to spike confusion at the optimal time. 

Or the posterchild of this entire Debate, Mechanist

Rifle Mech has the option to slot in Grenade kit causing it to play just like any other power build with a weapon swap. Use rifle skills swap to grenade, use grenade skills. Everytime you use blunderbuss, you can pair it with a Sharpnel grenade since they both have a 6 second CD. This is far more optimal than spamming AA in rifle. 

Or if you want to dps and give alac simultaneously, you can play Condi Alac mech which literally runs 4 kits. There's nothing LI about this build, it's carpel tunnel inducing core condi engi gameplay all over again. With the added challenge of pressing Mech skills on CD as you piano your way through your rotation. And you need to make sure the mech is in the right spot to give said boons. 

 

No one is forcing any elite spec, let alone entire class to run LI builds. In each case listed the more optimal way to play the class is to engage with it's mechanics, use your cooldowns, weapon swap, and so on. LI is not being forced nor it is the more optimal way to play. 

 

Edited July 5, 2022 by Kuma.1503

[Karagee.6830]

2 hours ago, JusticeRetroHunter.7684 said:

The problem is that if you reward more complex rotations than those that are not, then elitist players will want you to play those more complex builds and to be honest not everyone likes playing classes with 40 buttons to press and remember.

 

the problem is a creation of the elite community and the forces of entropy that come from that. 
 

However one issue with Anet is the lack of understanding how simple abilities can be used in complex manner. Good example: 1 skill being used in 30 different ways, va 30 skills being used in 1 way. Both of these things have the same level of complexity to them and arguably the first way is much more desirable. The problem anet has is making skills simple in every way: 1 skill with only 1 way to use them. That’s the absolute worst possible way to make the game because it limits its potential complexity.

 

You can think of that complexity like the gap between the floor and ceiling for a certain skill. Skill A which can be used in 30 different ways has a high ceiling, and a low floor. 
 

conversely, a class with 30 skills and can only be used 1 way each, is equivalent to 1 skill being used only 1 way… bad design.

You know what would be an even better example? Soulbeast burst. Use it right, you look good, use it badly and you look bad.

This is the very reason they nerfed it to the ground even though that was not a problem of pressing 30 buttons or piano rotations. It was the simple problem that pressing a handful of button, in the right order, at the right time is too difficult for some...

And if they wanted a 1111111111111111111111111111111111 build, then turn just mechanist in that and nerf its support to the ground, but leave the rest of the specialisations interesting. People with disabilities or whatever can play mechanist and the rest can play one of the other 26 specialisations.

Edited July 5, 2022 by Karagee.6830

[Karagee.6830]

1 hour ago, Kuma.1503 said:

LI is not being forced nor it is the more optimal way to play. 

 

I would disagree that it's not the optimal way to play. It's not the optimal way to get kills in record time, sure, but is it really not the optimal way to get a kill? If you are struggling? And let's not forget that the real problem with mech, wasn't just the damage, but the fact that the rifle is also a ranged weapon on top of that.

[Kuma.1503]

40 minutes ago, Karagee.6830 said:

I would disagree that it's not the optimal way to play. It's not the optimal way to get kills in record time, sure, but is it really not the optimal way to get a kill? If you are struggling? And let's not forget that the real problem with mech, wasn't just the damage, but the fact that the rifle is also a ranged weapon on top of that.

LI builds are not the optimal way to play. However, depending on the player, they may be the optimal way to learn.

If you are one of the players who:

A. Is still learning how to do mechanics

B. Is still learning the basics of combat (Keybinds, camera control, dodging, ect.)

C. Is still learning your Rotation (You cannot bench within 80-85% SC benchmark on a target golem)

 

LI builds are going to be the more optimal choice for you in the short term. They will allow you to learn how to perform task A and task B with greater ease, which will then allow you to work your way up to task C if you wish to pursue further optimization. 

 

What we are seeing right now are players who cannot perform tasks A, B, or C...

complaining that the other players who ALSO cannot perform tasks A, B, or C are outperforming them because they chose an easier build that doesn't put such a heavy congnitive load onto them while they are learning. 

This is what you would EXPECT to see. 

However, once both players learn how to perform tasks A and B. The player who sticks with the LI build will be outperformed by the player who took things a step further and learned how to play their class proper. 

 

Players need to stop complaining that other people are outperforming them when they stubbornly choose to play difficult builds while simultaneously refusing to put in the work required to pilot them.

They chose the more difficult path, that means weaker results in the short term. 

This whole LI drama is the oddest form of Elitism I've seen in an MMO. It's not the top level complaining about casuals. It's casuals complaining about other casuals playing casual friendly builds. 

Edited July 5, 2022 by Kuma.1503

[Karagee.6830]

17 minutes ago, Kuma.1503 said:

LI builds are going to be the more optimal choice for you 

There you go, so many words to say the same thing.

17 minutes ago, Kuma.1503 said:

However, once both players learn how to perform tasks A and B. The player who sticks with the LI build will be outperformed by the player who took things a step further and learned how to play their class proper. 

You forgot the simple problem this thread was predicated on: mech doing high damage with a ranged weapon. There are 27 elite specialisations, so you comparing LI mech to SnowCrows bench mech is cute, but what you should really be doing is comparing 32k autoattack 0 APM ranged mech to 32k SC melee high intensity power berserker and all the builds that fail to crack 30k or hover around those levels, shouldn't you? And those numbers are benchmarks on a stationary golem: the 0 APM ranged mech is gonna perform much closer to its benchmark than any whatever intensity melee build in a raid/strike setting.

So yes, LI ranged mech is optimal, not only for every single person who can't press buttons in order or after 100 kills still doesn't understand when they need to activate certain abilities to maximise their damage on exposed, but for most people who are not speedrunning. It's literally 0 risk for the same reward.

Edited July 5, 2022 by Karagee.6830

[ThunderX.6591]

Here is the real problem all DEV need to address, the numbers of players population in the game.

Hard rotation = less people play the class, and many times, that became less people play the game.

Easy rotation = more people play the the class and so more people are in the game, even if is something considered "not good" (from who i don't know) because help people get to "high level contents", the thing DEV are trying to "set" as the standard in the game. (see the new "easy raid mode")

The problem is..... like how many % players do high level content?

3%-5% using hard rotation, (because high level content need high dps) and that isn't a big number to bet on for the future of the game.

In conclusion, full buffed test Golem mecha was around 25k dps with rifle before hot fix 01/07, now is less for sure, BUT there are other classes who do 7k more with same easy rotation........ but noone talk about them.

 

[Ascency.3580]

9 minutes ago, Karagee.6830 said:

There you go, so many words to say the same thing.

You forgot the simple problem this thread was predicated on: mech doing high damage with a ranged weapon. There are 36 potential builds and 27 elite specialisations, so you comparing LI mech to SC bench mech is cute, but what you should really be doing is comparing 32k autoattack 0 APM ranged mech to 32k SC melee high intensity power berserker and all the builds that fail to crack 30k or hover around those levels, shouldn't you?

So yes, LI ranged mech is optimal, not only for every single person who can't press buttons in order or after 100 kills still doesn't understand when they need to activate certain abilities to maximise their damage on exposed, but for most people who are not speedrunning. It's literally 0 risk for the same reward.

This. Li builds allowing to clear content reliably is ok. Li builds outperforming builds requireing mastery of a class and its rotation is just plain stupid. And ppl claiming its ok are actually saying they would rather have every other class in the game be deleted since there is no point in it existing.

[Ascency.3580]

5 minutes ago, ThunderX.6591 said:

Here is the real problem all DEV need to address, the numbers of players population in the game.

Hard rotation = less people play the class, and many times, that became less people play the game.

Easy rotation = more people play the the class and so more people are in the game, even if is something considered "not good" (from who i don't know) because help people get to "high level contents", the thing DEV are trying to "set" as the standard in the game. (see the new "easy raid mode")

The problem is..... like how many % players do high level content?

3%-5% using hard rotation, (because high level content need high dps) and that isn't a big number to bet on for the future of the game.

In conclusion, full buffed test Golem mecha was around 25k dps with rifle before hot fix 01/07, now is less for sure, BUT there are other classes who do 7k more with same easy rotation........ but noone talk about them.

 

Those % are based on... ?

So ur saying that making the game be like all the mobile pseudogames that play themselves is the future?

[Karagee.6830]

15 minutes ago, ThunderX.6591 said:

Here is the real problem all DEV need to address, the numbers of players population in the game.

Hard rotation = less people play the class, and many times, that became less people play the game.

Easy rotation = more people play the the class

Actually I would argue this is false as well. You have seen so many Eles in the threads in the last 2 weeks, literally begging to get enough dps potential to make their class viable. That is no autoattack build.

15 minutes ago, ThunderX.6591 said:

In conclusion, full buffed test Golem mecha was around 25k dps with rifle before hot fix 01/07, now is less for sure, BUT there are other classes who do 7k more with same easy rotation........ but noone talk about them.

 

That number, 25k, was unbuffed, no food, no debuffs on the golem. You follow? The actual benchmark for that build (0.4 APM) was 31.5k.

Edited July 5, 2022 by Karagee.6830

[Kuma.1503]

51 minutes ago, Karagee.6830 said:

There you go, so many words to say the same thing.

You forgot the simple problem this thread was predicated on: mech doing high damage with a ranged weapon. There are 27 elite specialisations, so you comparing LI mech to SnowCrows bench mech is cute, but what you should really be doing is comparing 32k autoattack 0 APM ranged mech to 32k SC melee high intensity power berserker and all the builds that fail to crack 30k or hover around those levels, shouldn't you?

Doesn't 0 APM Auto attack only Mech bench 25k not 30k? I've yet to see a Auto attack only 30k benchmark for Rifle. 

But for the sake of argument, lets say I give you that. 

 Berserker literally benched higher than 34k while providing banners. (Can't speak for current banners, but those are a WIP by the devs)

LI rifle Mech, a build which must provide 0 utility to perform ~25k dps does less damage than a Hybrid Support spec. 

Bladesworn currently benches 38k DPS which is 8k higher than even the 30k you listed for rifle mech. Last I checked non-banner Berserker was also sitting at 37-38k dps. 

Or if you want to compare RIfle to other Engi specs, why wouldn't you just run Power Holosmith? Better damage, Better burst. Not punished by mechanics thanks to Grenade Kit. 

Or run Power RIfle Holosmith, a high-intensity build which has existed since forever which does 37k dps? Also runs rifle so not punished by mechanics. 

QFB benches 29k while providing group aegis, quickness, stability, ect, and is also not punished heavily by mechanics. 

Scourge. Sits at roughly 37k last I checked. Also not punished by mechanics. The list goes on. 

The only builds that come to mind that fall below Rifle Mech (Asuming 30k dps and not 25k) is Untamed, which is confirmed for buffs in the future. Everything else is some flavor of hybrid support. 

 

In no way is the LI Rifle Mech the optimal choice for skilled players. There are countless better options. 

 

Edited July 5, 2022 by Kuma.1503

[Karagee.6830]

1 minute ago, Kuma.1503 said:

Doesn't 0 APM Auto attack only Mech bench 25k not 30k? I've yet to see a Auto attack only 30k benchmark for Rifle. 

But for the sake of argument, lets say I give you that. 

 Berserker literally benched higher than 34k while providing banners. 

LI rifle Mech, a build which must provide 0 utility to perform ~25k dps does less damage than a Hybrid Support spec. 

Bladesworn currently benches 38k DPS which is 8k higher than even the 30k you listed. 

Or if you want to compare RIfle to other Engi specs, why wouldn't you just run Power Holosmith? Better damage, can swap to grenades for ranged damage if you need to do mechanics. 

QFB benches 29k while providing group aegis, quickness, stability, ect. 

 

In no way is the LI Rifle Mech the optimal choice for skilled players. There are countless better options. 

 

lol come on mate. There are logs for the 0.4 APM rifle mech doing 31.5k. 24-25k was unbuffed, like literally no buffs, no debuffs on the boss (which also increases mech damage) and no food. This is not debatable, it was the situation after the patch.

Berserker on the dps build now benches 32k and nobody really cares what it was benching as BS 3 weeks ago before the patch.

Bladesworn 38.6k is also a perfect example of why people who do not understand benchmarks should not talk about benchmarks, as I have explained elsewhere. The 38.6k log shows the player below 37k (and dropping throughout the log) until he hits the last dragon slash which does nearly 200k overkill damage. So he took 108 seconds to kill the golem whereas any other build at 38.6k would take 103 seconds. Even then, there is the issue of how poorly that 37k or 38k benchmark on a stationary golem will translate to an actual bossfight unlike most condi builds and also ranged builds (rifle mech). 

[Kuma.1503]

On 7/5/2022 at 6:12 PM, Karagee.6830 said:

lol come on mate. There are logs for the 0.4 APM rifle mech doing 31.5k. 24-25k was unbuffed, like literally no buffs, no debuffs on the boss (which also increases mech damage) and no food. This is not debatable, it was the situation after the patch.

Berserker on the dps build now benches 32k and nobody really cares what it was benching as BS 3 weeks ago before the patch.

Bladesworn 38.6k is also a perfect example of why people who do not understand benchmarks should not talk about benchmarks, as I have explained elsewhere. The 38.6k log shows the player below 37k (and dropping throughout the log) until he hits the last dragon slash which does nearly 200k overkill damage. So he took 108 seconds to kill the golem whereas any other build at 38.6k would take 103 seconds. Even then, there is the issue of how poorly that 37k or 38k benchmark on a stationary golem will translate to an actual bossfight unlike most condi builds and also ranged builds (rifle mech). 

Edit:

So I had to do a bit of asking around because I could not find proof of the 31k dps logs. From what others have told me this seems to be a fabrication. The actual numbers were what I initially expected. 25k fully buffed. These are pre-nerf numbers btw. The DPS would be lower now. 

I was also able to find proof of the Berserker 32k benchmark, which is underperforming. There is no doubt about that and it should, and likely will be addressed. 

So then what is the current situation looking like? We have an LI build which is currently performing worse, than an underperforming build on what is arguably the weakest class in the game. 

How is this in anyway Optimal? So much snark and yet you spout misinformation.  

Edited July 7, 2022 by Kuma.1503

[ThunderX.6591]

2 hours ago, Karagee.6830 said:

Actually I would argue this is false as well. You have seen so many Eles in the threads in the last 2 weeks, literally begging to get enough dps potential to make their class viable. That is no autoattack build.

 

That number, 25k, was unbuffed, no food, no debuffs on the golem. You follow? The actual benchmark for that build (0.4 APM) was 31.5k.

For the ele part, they get catalist hammer nerfed worse than the hammer they had when EOD launched, so, obviously they do what they do in the forum........ see nothing strange about it. (expecially cause they were the top dps class in the ranking, even with a piano hard rotation)

 

On the mecha, i tested prepatch autoattack mecha with mace, with +25 might, fury, quickness and on the test golem, +25 vulnerability, nothing else, and my result are around 17k-18k, depend on crit capping or not (and mace do more dps than rifle).

Now, i literally don't know how a mecha post nerf without buffs (not even might) can reach 25k........ with rifle....... post nerf....... what number did you check or see??

On my 25k rifle mecha test, i see it in a video (random youtube influencer), and the mecha was full buffed, and was done before the hot fix of 01/07, so robot and rifle did more damage at that time (now they do less). He was trying the build, impressed by the lights and sound of the new rifle (and AArocket) happy and excited like he was reaching 40k dps (even if the reality was less than 25k).

[Kozumi.5816]

On 7/2/2022 at 9:40 PM, Paradoxoglanis.1904 said:

 anets vision of making the game more accessible

This game has the least accessible end game of any MMO due to how there's 0 barriers stopping a new boosted account clicking to join your LFG listing. This makes the community create insane KP ping gear etc requirements. It's funny, actually.

[RadiantWolf.2058]

I have some thoughts about evening the skill gap that does not involve the "dumbing down" of any spec. But keep in mind I am only just now returning after 10 years away. I am a new player. Veterans may have different takes or see obvious flaws that I do not yet.

Okay, that disclaimer out of the way...

 

1. Customizable UI if ANet won't allow addons then it could go the FFXIV of having a highly customizable UI. In FFXIV I have my buffs and debuffs (boons and conditions) set as large icons towards the middle of my screen so I can more easily keep track of them for example.
2.  Solo Challenges in the style of WoW's original Breaker of the Black Harvest dungeon for warlocks or current Mage Tower. These are very hard optional challenges with cosmetic rewards that can only be earned from them. Beating them requires a player to know their class's entire kit and they can do them at their own schedule since they scale.
3. Easier to Join Groups in terms of the UI and windows involved. Make it easier to create or join groups, make those windows more obvious. Then new players can at least run Dungeons as they level which will introduce them to group content.

Edited July 6, 2022 by RadiantWolf.2058

[Tails.9372]

On 7/6/2022 at 1:12 AM, Karagee.6830 said:

24-25k was unbuffed, like literally no buffs, no debuffs on the boss (which also increases mech damage) and no food. This is not debatable, it was the situation after the patch.

Well let me show you "the situation after the patch" (you can add +10% to that because I wasn't running full zerk on my OW LI build) unbuffed / without extra conditions and that's the issue with you people never doing your own tests just endlessly repeating the uninformed nonsense the latest outrage train is spewing. Ofc. the around 25k "AFK AA only" numbers were with all important buffs / debuffs on the training golem, everyone who claimed otherwise was either lying or didn't knew what he was talking about.

Edited July 7, 2022 by Tails.9372

[Nimon.7840]

imo:

It's good that easy to play builds exist. Should they do similar or more DPS than other "full played" builds? - definetly not.

[draxynnic.3719]

18 hours ago, Nimon.7840 said:

imo:

It's good that easy to play builds exist. Should they do similar or more DPS than other "full played" builds? - definetly not.

Which is pretty much the situation already. People are making a big deal about a build that, if we take their own claims (which are disputed), only did a little over 30k. When the benchmark for a good DPS build is generally 36k or higher.

Seems like there's a mountain being made out of a molehill here. The higher-intensity builds and rotations absolutely ARE doing better, while the LI builds are only about the ballpark of DPS+support hybrids like quickbrand.

I'm seeing berserker being cited as a high-intensity build that hits the same ballpark, but if that's the berserker benchmark, that's not saying that LI builds are overperforming, it's saying that berserker is underperforming and needs a buff.

[Nimon.7840]

4 hours ago, draxynnic.3719 said:

Which is pretty much the situation already. People are making a big deal about a build that, if we take their own claims (which are disputed), only did a little over 30k. When the benchmark for a good DPS build is generally 36k or higher.

Seems like there's a mountain being made out of a molehill here. The higher-intensity builds and rotations absolutely ARE doing better, while the LI builds are only about the ballpark of DPS+support hybrids like quickbrand.

I'm seeing berserker being cited as a high-intensity build that hits the same ballpark, but if that's the berserker benchmark, that's not saying that LI builds are overperforming, it's saying that berserker is underperforming and needs a buff.

 

There's just one problem:  1 button builds doing more dps than full played builds right now.

What was mechanist low intensity build with 4 buttons before the patch? Like 38k?

while full played dragon hunter (well tbh. Dragon hunter can bring a lot of utility with small dps loss, so maybe it's fine at 34k dps)  or full played reaper (which requires white a few animation cancels and very good boss knowledge, because taking too much dmg in shroud is big yikes) were both at max 34k?

 

That doesn't sound right.

 

30k dps is plenty for low intensity builds. And you will clear all content with 30k.

[Karagee.6830]

On 7/6/2022 at 12:34 AM, Kuma.1503 said:

Edit:

So I had to do a bit of asking around because I could not find proof of the 31k dps logs. From what others have told me this seems to be a fabrication. The actual numbers were what I initially expected. 25k fully buffed. These are pre-nerf numbers btw. The DPS would be lower now. 

I was also able to find proof of the Berserker 32k benchmark, which is underperforming. There is no doubt about that and it should, and likely will be addressed. 

So then what is the current situation looking like? We have an LI build which is currently performing worse, than an underperforming build on what is arguably the weakest class in the game. 

How is this in anyway Optimal? So much snark and yet you spout misinformation.  

Hahaha, misinformation? You need to educate yourself before you talk. The 31.5k was an Arcdps log from reddit. Mukluk has a video where he casually tried rifle to check the autoattacks right after the patch and you can see the game itself reporting between 24k-25k dps with rifle, unbuffed, with no food. You're welcome. As for the 32k for berserker, that is the current SnowCrows benchmark, so until they can do better it is what it is and you can check for updates on their discord page if you don't believe me. You're welcome x2.

Edited July 8, 2022 by Karagee.6830

[Karagee.6830]

On 7/6/2022 at 11:30 PM, Tails.9372 said:

Well let me show you "the situation after the patch" (you can add +10% to that because I wasn't running full zerk on my OW LI build) unbuffed / without extra conditions and that's the issue with you people never doing your own tests just endlessly repeating the uninformed nonsense the latest outrage train is spewing. Ofc. the around 25k "AFK AA only" numbers were with all important buffs / debuffs on the training golem, everyone who claimed otherwise was either lying or didn't knew what he was talking about.

Ok we have another uninformed propaganda bot. Mukluk's video is still up, the reddit post with the log is also still up. Do your due diligence.