Game design - look at how Anet does it to find out how it shouldn't be done

[Randulf.7614]

30 minutes ago, kharmin.7683 said:

I'm not so sure it has popularity now due to mounts.  Isn't more likely due to the rewards structure?

It’s also a slight myth hot completely destroyed the population. Yes it divided people, but  it quickly recovered with fixes, also gained a lot of players and became very popular because of said the revamp and the repeatable nature of the area. It was always packed in the maps right up to PoFs release. It endures today, but I wouldn’t say it’s more popular

Anecdotally, I saw more people leave because of LS1 frustrations at various points in that year than any other point in the last ten years. We will never know the true extent of which one was worse, but I’d say ls1 was more damaging than HoT and major change in strategy and the collaborative forum threads that came after showed a deep concern from Anet as well. HoT in comparison had a swift turnaround in fixing the issues and then settled in nicely.

 

 

 

[Astralporing.1957]

LS1 was not truly representative, at least in the early stages. At this point MMORPGs are known to still shed players that didn't fully "click" with the core game, but were just slower at realizing that than the content locust. A lot of players indeed have left at this stage, but it didn't necessarily have anything to do with LS1 itself rather than the game as a whole.

[DarcShriek.5829]

I can't say I'm a fan of the current"Dusk/Dawn" setup.  I think it's too short and too easy to miss.

Edited July 11, 2022 by DarcShriek.5829

[Gorem.8104]

8 hours ago, kharmin.7683 said:

I'm not so sure it has popularity now due to mounts.  Isn't more likely due to the rewards structure?

I did say one of the reasons, the awesome rewards and fun gameplay would be the others 🙂
Not that Anet's balance team could right now make the gameplay part fun.... 

[JTGuevara.9018]

It's not just Anet. A lot of "games" these days are nothing but farming and revenue generators or function like casinos. It's been like this for years. They put out the most tedious time-consuming nonsense, so-called "content", and dangle an empty and shiny "reward". It's no accident that the game industry is closely to gambling with its plethora of RNG mechanics substituted for actual creativity and engagement. The thing is, though: even gambling is regulated. The game industry, however, is not!

 

[Jukhy.2431]

21 hours ago, Jirian.7512 said:

no, i'm providing 2 separate examples as it's quite clearly stated in the post. But thanks for stating the obvious.

Clearly stated? No, it is not. If it was indeed clearly stated I wouldn't have posted. There's no mention what fishing collection you are trying to do, which would be helpful. The only area you mention is Draconis Mons so it's quite easy to draw the wrong conclusions.

As for the topic: I happen to like both fishing and Draconis Mons, but mounts have influenced the way I view the area. The only trouble I had doing the fishing achies were some dusk/dawn fishes, but I caught those quite easily after the drop rate buff. I also noticed that swapping toons can help: did most of the achies with my ranger but rotated between three alts when I had issues catching the fish needed. RNG works in mysterious ways.

[Labjax.2465]

11 hours ago, JTGuevara.9018 said:

It's not just Anet. A lot of "games" these days are nothing but farming and revenue generators or function like casinos. It's been like this for years. They put out the most tedious time-consuming nonsense, so-called "content", and dangle an empty and shiny "reward". It's no accident that the game industry is closely to gambling with its plethora of RNG mechanics substituted for actual creativity and engagement. The thing is, though: even gambling is regulated. The game industry, however, is not!

 

Yes, the line between video game and casino is depressingly thin these days. Incidentally, I started thinking of stuff like super rare infusion drops from metas as buying a virtual lottery ticket with some game time to put in perspective for myself how intentionally rare it is and how highly unlikely it is I'd ever see such a drop even if I did the same meta multiple times a day every day for years. It helps keep me grounded about the absurd treadmill they are hoping to put me on, hoping for that big win.

[Mungrul.9358]

On 7/10/2022 at 11:50 PM, Gibson.4036 said:

Isn’t that the MMO way?

Doesn't mean it's right 😉

[Gehenna.3625]

45 minutes ago, Mungrul.9358 said:

Doesn't mean it's right 😉

Doesn't mean that discussing it on the forum will change anything 😉 

[Mungrul.9358]

3 minutes ago, Gehenna.3625 said:

Doesn't mean that discussing it on the forum will change anything 😉 

So true of everything written on the forum 😄

Edited July 12, 2022 by Mungrul.9358
Make it make sense!

[Einsof.1457]

Fun fact: you don't have to do things you don't like. 

[Labjax.2465]

41 minutes ago, Mungrul.9358 said:

So true of everything written on the forum 😄

Sad, but true. Most of this is for catharsis, venting, commiserating, exchanging tips. Part of why I'm a little taken aback those times when people get really bent out of shape at a player suggestion for changing something in a way they don't like. Anet (like most studios) haven't listened to the first 99% of suggestions, why do these people think they're going to just happen to listen to the last 1% in a way that coincides with something these people hate.

I'm ngl, I do get a little delusionally hopeful it'll matter sometimes, but mostly I just come on here to get thoughts about the game out of my system, negative or otherwise. Or advocate in relation to some change the studio made, or is going to make, if I think it's going in a poor direction. At least then I'm addressing something that's actually happening, instead of doing a wish list of hate or love.

[Einsof.1457]

On 7/10/2022 at 6:00 PM, Gibson.4036 said:

I like this idea of sun-setting old time gates. They wouldn’t need to be completely eliminated, just gradually reduced the older the content is.

That would have the added benefit of letting brand new players not feel like they have a decade long wall of stuff keeping them from “catching up”.

Good idea if it's a vertical progression game but it's not. 

[Labjax.2465]

4 minutes ago, Einsof.1457 said:

Good idea if it's a vertical progression game but it's not. 

Not sure how you think the one has anything to do with the other.

[Gibson.4036]

6 minutes ago, Einsof.1457 said:

Good idea if it's a vertical progression game but it's not. 

Tell me more

[Einsof.1457]

1 hour ago, Gibson.4036 said:

Tell me more

In gw2, long journey rewards such as aurora or vision will be top tier for the entire existence of the game and is only done once for all characters on an account.  This fact justifies the extreme time and resource requirements. In a vertical game, reward value expires over a short time, usually months, and therefore does not and should not require much commitment. 

Edited July 12, 2022 by Einsof.1457

[Labjax.2465]

6 minutes ago, Einsof.1457 said:

In gw2, long journey rewards such as aurora or vision will be top tier for the entire existence of the game and is only done once for all characters on an account.  This fact justifies the extreme time and resource requirements. In a vertical game, reward value expires over a short time, usually months, and therefore does not and should not require much commitment. 

Removing or lessening time gates doesn't shrink time requirements though, it just gives you, the player, more control over the pacing of it. Unless I'm forgetting something important, a gen 1 legendary for example has virtually no time gates (maybe if you count Gift of Battle). It's still a huge time investment to complete.

Time gates are something that basically punishes you for not progressing on them right now. And the more you don't progress on them right now, the more you have to stretch it out later. From the standpoint of stretching the life of content out, there's little reason I can think of to keep new or returning players stuck on the same time-gated pace that players were on when the content came out. I'd think it would be desired to have them eventually engaging with the newest content so that it has a healthy population. There is a cost to keeping them so occupied on stretched out content they never get there.

[Astralporing.1957]

5 hours ago, Gehenna.3625 said:

Doesn't mean that discussing it on the forum will change anything 😉 

True. On the other hand, It's still better than doing nothing and hoping something will change for the better on its own. Because that never works.

[Artemis.8034]

23 hours ago, JTGuevara.9018 said:

It's not just Anet. A lot of "games" these days are nothing but farming and revenue generators or function like casinos. It's been like this for years. They put out the most tedious time-consuming nonsense, so-called "content", and dangle an empty and shiny "reward". It's no accident that the game industry is closely to gambling with its plethora of RNG mechanics substituted for actual creativity and engagement. The thing is, though: even gambling is regulated. The game industry, however, is not!

 

Well said!