New Hacks in WvW? Seen Something New

[Hesione.9412]

1 hour ago, Sleepwalker.1398 said:

Something like this...?
 

 

I'm in OCX and can get lag, for example tonight my lag was so bad at one point that I shut down the game in order to pre-empt the disconnect. Lag shows up that others don't see you move, or you rubberband forwards, but not like that. For example, the person will think they are running ahead of the group, but their lag means that the people in your group can't see them move. And then all of a sudden, they are away from that spot, in the direction they wanted to go. I can't see how a player in downstate could move like that, that number of times, due to lag. If you're lagging, the enemy will run over you and kill you. From the perspective of being the lagging player, you will find yourself dead in the spot you thought you had moved away from - death comes as a surprise. The damage done to that player was inside inner. If they were lagging, they would think they were in outer, but according to the server they are downstate/dead on inner.

If we use X for where I think I am and A for where the server thinks I am, lag looks like this (assume I am moving from left to right):

AX

A X

A   X

A     X

According to everyone else, including my team mates, I am still at A, but on my screen I am at X.

And then there can be a catch-up, which looks like I leap rapidly from one place to another:

        AX

But: if I go into downstate/die at A, I stay at A. When there is a catch-up, I see myself dead at A even though, on my screen, I still saw myself at alive at X.

Lag does not pull you if you are in downstate or dead.

 

Edited September 24, 2023 by Hesione.9412
Clarifying second to last sentence.

[Burnfall.9573]

Lag Hacking/Artificial lag/lag switch is a huge problem in WoW and Guild Wars 2 is not exception to this as it is cheating popular method in MMO games and I believe this is what we are witnessing happening in the game. 

((I remove the link on purpose as it explains it))

 

Artificial lag/lag switch

"In the peer-to-peer gaming model, lagging is what happens when the stream of data between one or more players gets slowed or interrupted, causing movement to stutter and making opponents appear to behave erratically. By using a lag switch, a player is able to disrupt uploads from the client to the server, while their own client queues up the actions performed. The goal is to gain advantage over another player without reciprocation; opponents slow down or stop moving, allowing the lag switch user to easily outmaneuver them. From the opponent's perspective, the player using the device may appear to be teleporting, invisible or invincible, while the opponents suffer delayed animations and fast-forwarded game play, delivered in bursts.[8] Some gaming communities refer to this method as "tapping" which refers to the users "tapping" on and off their internet connection to create the lag."

 

Different Quote from another thread

""There are also a lot of people who intentionally make it ‘look’ like they are lagging, but they don’t have the downsides of actually having lag, and you are the only one getting messed around by it. These lag ‘hacks’ or ‘exploits’ have apparently been around for awhile, but for some reason being used way more these days.

How? Well, I’ll try and explain as best I can without giving out too much info. I just want people to be aware that yes it is a thing, people exploit it and it’s not your imagination. However I need to be careful, as I don’t want to get myself in trouble because some people who are terrible at PvP take this info and go look for an easy win.

Lag switches is one of the terms used for manipulating your own computer to make games think you are lagging when you are not. Using this allows people to cheat by keeping certain buffs on their characters for longer periods of time than they should""

Edited September 24, 2023 by Burnfall.9573

[Zephyrus.9680]

2 minutes ago, Burnfall.9573 said:

Lag Hacking/Artificial lag/lag switch is a huge problem in WoW and Guild Wars 2 is not exception to this as it is cheating popular method in MMO games and I believe this is what we are witnessing happening in the game. 

Lag doesn't change how the game works, only the information that is getting back to the servers and other players. So it won't let you teleport multiple times in down state (desync can legit "teleport" you once), move across the map at artificial speeds, fly in the air, over walls, underground, other inaccessible areas, or instantly OOC. It's a difference between hacking vs exploiting though both should be banned. 

 

Anyway the teleport hack is somewhat common and can get banned. 

People taking those videos need to open the report menu and/or block the player to get the account name (in the video). Then submit it to support in a ticket. They will often get banned though probably not perma-banned if its the first time. It needs to be a ticket and it needs the account/character name since the ingame "botting" report wont do anything for this. Showing the videos on forums also won't do anything (don't show them on forums with the account name included). 

[Chaba.5410]

8 hours ago, Burnfall.9573 said:

Do not call me a liar. One of the player sent a link

I did not call you a liar.  I asked you why did you post such misleading stuff.  One player sent you a link of a video that showed a thief chaining different movement skills together to move a long distance.  The video doesn't look like it has anything to do with what you saw at Pangloss.  Did the thief at Pangloss somehow manage to chain movement skills into the middle of rock terrain first before coming out the other side?

[Chaba.5410]

8 hours ago, Burnfall.9573 said:

Here is a 11 years old Thief Profession player experiencing teleportation, teleporting under and through a flat surface to appear on top of the surface. Thief Profession teleporting goes through and under surfaces, objects and re-appear above them. So it would not be any surprise if their is an exploit to allow them to teleport through walls, gates; which is very common in WvW

This video doesn't show a thief teleporting through walls or gates.  It just shows "legal" teleporting with thief short-bow.  You can't do this in WvW like you can in PvE because most of the structures have an additional pathing component and doesn't allow teleports like this.  That's how mesmers and elementalists also can't blink or lightning flash into structures either.  Now there are exploits of "holes" in terrain that has bad interaction with these same teleport skills.  But that's terrain bugs and not what you are showing at all.

Edited September 24, 2023 by Chaba.5410

[TheGrimm.5624]

1 hour ago, Zephyrus.9680 said:

Lag doesn't change how the game works, only the information that is getting back to the servers and other players. So it won't let you teleport multiple times in down state (desync can legit "teleport" you once), move across the map at artificial speeds, fly in the air, over walls, underground, other inaccessible areas, or instantly OOC. It's a difference between hacking vs exploiting though both should be banned. 

 

Anyway the teleport hack is somewhat common and can get banned. 

People taking those videos need to open the report menu and/or block the player to get the account name (in the video). Then submit it to support in a ticket. They will often get banned though probably not perma-banned if its the first time. It needs to be a ticket and it needs the account/character name since the ingame "botting" report wont do anything for this. Showing the videos on forums also won't do anything (don't show them on forums with the account name included). 

Teleport hack is valid and old, agree with the above. Lag/desync and the teleport hack are not the same but may look like it. The difference is usually is in re-occurrence of hops. Latency in upload and download will impact the player in one example as seen by taking damage when no one is around and seen by others when it creates a desync and a player is moving in the same direction maybe into a wall or off a cliff and then is suddenly somewhere else to others.

[Chaba.5410]

49 minutes ago, TheGrimm.5624 said:

Teleport hack is valid and old, agree with the above. Lag/desync and the teleport hack are not the same but may look like it. The difference is usually is in re-occurrence of hops. Latency in upload and download will impact the player in one example as seen by taking damage when no one is around and seen by others when it creates a desync and a player is moving in the same direction maybe into a wall or off a cliff and then is suddenly somewhere else to others.

I think it is desync too.  The weird thing though is the client rendered the birds from the warhorn skill and the damage numbers on the location where the downed was rendering at the same time the pet, the warrior, and the player end up leaping to the second location.  Usually, like if you're cleaving in one location, you don't see damage numbers.  It's like in that split second that the thief went down he was also trying to shadowstep to a different location so the client became confused as to which location to render skill effects at.

Edited September 24, 2023 by Chaba.5410

[Gotejjeken.1267]

13 hours ago, TheGrimm.5624 said:

😞 That's desyncing where the server expects the player to be in one spot and then they report they are in another since their connection was slow. When my upload speed fell below 1.0 Mb/s guild mates would tell I was behind them but I was way ahead of them. When it caught up they would say how did you get all the way up there!?

Right, but I think here it may be a targeted desynch (i.e. lag switch).  

As you can see from the video, my WH #4 worked and tracked fine--it normally will not if say a yak desynchs--which happens far more than it should.

It's only after the WH #4 that the desynch starts to happen to me and everyone around me; the thief also comes back a few min later and is perfectly fine to hit them.    

Given the nature of the guild in question and profession it causes me to wonder what 'tricks' may be employed here.  

[Zyreva.1078]

I have encountered quite a few downstate desyncs recently - and in all of those cases the desynced player died, so it doesn't seem to provide much benefits for them. Since it screws over ressing, while cleaving works just fine if you are aware of the desync, it would actually be pretty stupid to trigger it intentionally.

Edited September 24, 2023 by Zyreva.1078

[Hesione.9412]

2 hours ago, Zyreva.1078 said:

I have encountered quite a few downstate desyncs recently - and in all of those cases the desynced player died, so it doesn't seem to provide much benefits for them. Since it screws over ressing, while cleaving works just fine if you are aware of the desync, it would actually be pretty stupid to trigger it intentionally.

I've had situations where they have moved away while in downstate, and then they're up again with way more health than they should have coming out of downstate. I've seen one player in downstate slide away from us. That wasn't desync or lag, as we could see them slide at the same rate.

[babana.7521]

13 hours ago, Sleepwalker.1398 said:

Something like this...?
 

 

Yes, exactly like that, they ran even further. from crankshaft to the south sentry, it wasn't an elementalist, was a necromancer. I downed them in a fight, they ran away while downed, rez themself and disappeared.

[Chaba.5410]

5 hours ago, Gotejjeken.1267 said:

It's only after the WH #4 that the desynch starts to happen to me and everyone around me;

Not exactly.  Your pet goes after the thief's real location on the left before WH #4 starts rendering at the location on the right.

[Gotejjeken.1267]

1 hour ago, Chaba.5410 said:

Not exactly.  Your pet goes after the thief's real location on the left before WH #4 starts rendering at the location on the right.

Warhorn animation is weird, guessing it most likely started rendering prior to lag switch flip and just kept rendering because it was already in progress, while everything else got desynched.

[Zyreva.1078]

17 hours ago, Hesione.9412 said:

I've had situations where they have moved away while in downstate, and then they're up again with way more health than they should have coming out of downstate. I've seen one player in downstate slide away from us. That wasn't desync or lag, as we could see them slide at the same rate.

Well, there are a few ways a downed body can be moved (and/or rezzed) that are legit (mes/thief/ele innate downed skills and certain rez traits and skills). If those things can be ruled out and the downed player is acually moving far beyond what's possible by legitimate means, then yes, hacking is very likely involved. However not every downed body that appears to be moving is truly doing so. In those desync situations i mentioned, the downed appeared to be sliding away from me, but the real location didn't actually change. I knew this, because my pet kept attacking at a certain location near me and i was also able to hit the target at the same spot, eventually killing them.

So if someone keeps moving away from you while downed, i recommend to not follow and instead try to hit them with targeted ranged attacks (pets are also helpful, they always know where the enemy is). If they are hacking you wont catch them anyway, and if they are just desynced and you try to chase the perceived body, you risk moving out of range, potentially allowing them to self rez.

 

Edited September 25, 2023 by Zyreva.1078

[Bigpapasmurf.5623]

On 7/21/2022 at 1:52 AM, Jitters.9401 said:

 

 

But that is just a theory. 

 

A GUILD WARS 2 THOERY! (haha oh matpat)

[hugeboss.5432]

I have noticed for over a year, a wvw zerg hack with the "Invisibile Warrior-Berserker" at the front of the zerg dropping "Arc Divider" bombs. I don't think they are just perma-stealth, but probably running underneath the terrain right at the front of the zerg or both. Even if nobody is close to you, and even after the Arc Divider hits, there is still nobody visible (U can normally see thieves, mesmers when they come closer + everyone else, but that Arc Divider zerg bomb hacker is always perma invisible / under the terrain or both). It's very hard to detect even when reviewing footage, unless he for a reason bombs on you away from others.

After we capped SMC, the hacker warrior got angry and started clipping through the walls (underneath the pathway up to 2nd/3rd floors) by the Lord. If you tried to damage him, you either got obstructed messages or no message at all (AoE couldn't hit him, he was literally untargetable by anything, but still moving around). To make it worse, that hacker runs often with a fairly known wvw guild that many consider to be good (I have run with them a couple of times, before I found this out). Though, it's unclear if they actually know a member in their zerg is hacking.

ANET should get serious about balancing Arc Divider critical damage (like they did with Soulbeast bombs). It's still one of the favorite hackers choice for large group wvw cheating (if they don't balance it, then the balance team becomes part of the problem itself). This probably isn't an issue whined about in PvP forums though, so it doesn't seem to get the attention it desperately needs. Any skill that has super high critical damage is always going to be a good choice for hackers to exploit, and this skill is a top offender.

How long will it take to balance wvw ARC DIVIDER critical damage?

 

Edited September 26, 2023 by hugeboss.5432
formatting

[WastedYears.8934]

Alliance will fix nothing.

• Its a dying population that really needs to be fixed and most new players are being chased away by hackers, exploiters or players who are running scripts that gives them an unfair advantage.  This has been covered by one of the gw2 players on youtube.
  • Due to lack of population density, its is also currently fighting the same guilds/players over and over again.
• Same old boring maps
• No new content
• Class builds that are utterly useless. 
• Condi meta accross the board.
  • God bless the upcoming weapons update. Any class that isnt given unlimited condi spam weapons that can invul and have endless mobility = dead.
• Ignoring the social aspects of the game for WVW players. 
  • WVW is boring and gets worse without any social aspect. Other games have pvp aspect/wvw aspect where people can pair in groups to complete them whether it is  across  server or with people within the server
• Spies, trolls, alt account that sabotages people efforts

So with Alliance u get a slightly better algorithm with the option to join guilds irrespective of server. How will that fix anything?

 

 

 

Edited September 26, 2023 by WastedYears.8934

[Kasumi.8532]

I don't play WvW that often anymore but the amount of hackers I see nowadays compared to 3 years ago is laughable. Already 5 today:

A Revenant that kept teleporting large distances whenever someone got near him, and it definitely wasn't the 600 distance you can get from the skill leaps, it was at least double that distance (looked like mesmer and thief teleports).

A Catalyst that suddenly popped up out of nowhere, tried to burst people down and just vanished if he failed to kill his target and came back a few seconds later to do the same again.

A Mesmer that somehow could crit for 10k with greatsword without any condis on his target (probably a bug or exploit).

A Guardian that just kept walking away in downstate.

And another Catalyst (why is it so often a Catalyst??) that could just magically rez himself out of downstate while he was about to get finished off (no downed enemies or mobs around, healtbar also didn't move up, he just got out of downed state somehow), and vanished a few seconds later.

2 weeks ago I've had someone on our own server that could somehow move almost twice as fast on his mount. He literally just ran past me, both of us on mounts. He didn't use mount dash and I couldn't even keep up with him with mount dash.

 

And it's always the same servers. Reporting does nothing anyway. Am I supposed to record every time I play this game, cut to the part with the hackers and send it in with a ticket or what? You can't expect people to constantly run recording software every time they play GW2. 3 years ago I've seen maybe a single hacker in half a year. Now it's probably like at least one per week. It's a joke at this point.

Edited September 26, 2023 by Xenon Z.6015

[Chaba.5410]

35 minutes ago, Xenon Z.6015 said:

A Guardian that just kept walking away in downstate

Moving at the same distance away from you at regular intervals as you get closer?  That's called lag.

Or teleporting an impossible distance away like from a spawn tower all the way to their spawn?  That's called third-party hack.

Edited September 26, 2023 by Chaba.5410

[Kasumi.8532]

14 minutes ago, Chaba.5410 said:

Moving at the same distance away from you at regular intervals as you get closer?  That's called lag.

Or teleporting an impossible distance away like from a spawn tower all the way to their spawn?  That's called third-party hack.

It was like he was floating away (but at somewhat slower speed, not walking speed but also not combat walking speed, somewhere inbetween) but it looked really smooth. Isn't lag normally more... messy (jumpy?) ? He was in the downstate animation at least and moving away from me and another player from my server. The other player just said "lol" in chat so I guess that person probably saw the same thing.

Edit: I mean, it could be lag? Never heard anything of someone's downstate playermodel moving around so smoothly when he's lagging though. Then again, it's Anets spaghetti code...

Edited September 26, 2023 by Xenon Z.6015

[Hesione.9412]

1 hour ago, Xenon Z.6015 said:

It was like he was floating away (but at somewhat slower speed, not walking speed but also not combat walking speed, somewhere inbetween) but it looked really smooth. Isn't lag normally more... messy (jumpy?) ? He was in the downstate animation at least and moving away from me and another player from my server. The other player just said "lol" in chat so I guess that person probably saw the same thing.

Edit: I mean, it could be lag? Never heard anything of someone's downstate playermodel moving around so smoothly when he's lagging though. Then again, it's Anets spaghetti code...

Yeah, lag is jumpy. E.g. when a comm I know is lagging, all of a sudden he's ahead of us and wondering why people aren't on tag. And a lot of the time it's been "you're running into a wall on our screens" before the client and server realign.

When I'm the one that's lagging, everyone else looks frozen in place, even though I appear to be moving on my screen. Then, when the spike ends, everything moves superfast around me and I'm not where I thought I was on my screen. That can include being dead on the ground if the enemy pushed.

[Chaba.5410]

1 hour ago, Xenon Z.6015 said:

It was like he was floating away (but at somewhat slower speed, not walking speed but also not combat walking speed, somewhere inbetween) but it looked really smooth. Isn't lag normally more... messy (jumpy?) ? He was in the downstate animation at least and moving away from me and another player from my server. The other player just said "lol" in chat so I guess that person probably saw the same thing.

Edit: I mean, it could be lag? Never heard anything of someone's downstate playermodel moving around so smoothly when he's lagging though. Then again, it's Anets spaghetti code...

Like sliding?  There used to be a rendering bug that caused that several years ago.  Was kind of funny.

[Chaba.5410]

LOL.  Old video of that bug.

 

[Luranni.9470]

19 hours ago, Chaba.5410 said:

LOL.  Old video of that bug.

Here's one taken last week

Hooray spaghetti servers /o/

[Chaba.5410]

17 minutes ago, Luranni.9470 said:

Here's one taken last week

Hooray spaghetti servers /o/

LOL!

Wish you'd have kept auto-attacking with the bow so it can be seen in the video the downed player's actual position.