Legendary variants cost is unacceptable

[kharmin.7683]

4 minutes ago, Lottie.5370 said:

At risk of sounding like Kharmin:

 

Made my morning. 🙂

[Shadowmoon.7986]

I am treating these like i should have treated the IBS weapons, once 6 months past after the last weapon set is released these items will lose alot of worth. Look at prismatisite, those used to be 10g a bar. I can forsee anet cashing in on the research notes by adding glyths to the game that passively give you one per node hit. Jade runestone will keep its value low as long as the jpnis not nerfed. Memories i am worried about. You only need 1600 a s s, and there are a ton of sources, i think those will crash like the ibs material, but that will increase the cost of memories because less people will do DE, which you need 25.5k to complete all sets.

[Forum Moderator.3419]

Hello Everyone,

Just a reminder to keep it civil. I've removed a couple of posts.

Regards.

[Asum.4960]

Pre EoD I really thought (or hoped) Gen 3 was Anet's attempt to make Legendary weapons more accessible so the functionality to adjust builds on the fly would be in the hands of more players. 

Rather than unique prestigious artifacts of lore and the like, be more focused on accessibility with more Cookie-cutter "Gemstore" skin sets as trade-off. A choose your flavour of more generic skin and get Legendary functionality for a bargain price kind of deal. 

 

I don't know if that was never Anet's intention or if they completely miscalculated demand and/or supply, but that a single weapon type + desired skin now costs more than two Gen 1's is imo pretty silly. 

 

Legendary Weapons never made sense to me to begin with (besides the prestige skin to show off, for those who care). Not only does the game throw more Ascended Weapon Chests and the like at you than you could ever salvage once you play Endgame (for which you probably want to set up multiple builds for) - unless you play a vast variety of professions, stat swapping a weapon type doesn't even provide much value anyway.

Exception being Guardian due to it being designed well in such that many to most weapons can be valuable in a Power, Condi and even Support context depending on Trait setup/build - but for example a Scepter on Necro, Mesmer, Specter etc. is going to pretty much always be Condi - making that Legendary functionality largely pointless, at least for a thousand gold+). 

 

I get especially players who already made Gen 1 or 2's will want to gatekeep their investment - and it's absolutely not something Anet should ever entirely invalidate, but imo Gen 3 has been a huge failure - at least for what I wanted it to do for the game. We got the cookie-cutter skin sets, just without the easier access to build swapping for invested but more average players, to make endgame and build adjustment more accessible. 

 

The variants basically just being ~1400 Gem premium (but reskin) Gemstore skins with a whole bunch of extra steps/work on top is the kicker though.

[Astralporing.1957]

49 minutes ago, Lottie.5370 said:

Exactly! You are literally getting multiple LEGENDARY skins, they have unique effects, unique footsteps, unique kill animations, and you're only having to pay a few hundred gold for that (assuming you don't just spend 10 days doing some content and more than halving the cost).

The whole point was that many players considered the skins to be legendary tier (as opposed to common black lion tier) only due to the existence of versions. Without versions, we're talking about just a black lion weapon set And not even those weapons that cost 800+ gems per piece, but the common ticket one. We've definitely had more than one weapon set with comparable quality there.

Basically, gen3 was considered to be budget legendaries, barely passable only due to getting several skins in one package, and being relatively cheaper compared to previous sets. Turns out, they aren;t any cheaper (quite the opposite), and you have to pay extra for those additional skins - and not a small amount either.

Edited August 3, 2022 by Astralporing.1957

[Super Hayes.6890]

I kinda wish that the variants were just a straight gold charge at a vendor 🤷‍♂️ Not a fan of the current implementation. I won't judge the actual cost for a few more months. This content is too new right now.

[Cuks.8241]

5 minutes ago, Astralporing.1957 said:

Basically, gen3 was considered to be budget legendaries, barely passable only due to getting several skins in one package, and being relatively cheaper compared to previous sets. Turns out, they aren;t any cheaper (quite the opposite), and you have to pay extra for those additional skins - and not a small amount either.

Considered by who? Some posters on the forums?

I always thought that gen3 would be somewhere in the ballpark of previous generations just because they dont want to reduce the production of previous versions. And skins, especially with unique animations and effects will always be expensive in this game. Its what drives the economy.

[Kayberz.5346]

This is what happens when people speculate and make assumptions with zero information for too long and then they start viewing what was originally "maybe it will be...." as "this was supposed to be....."

 

Anet never said anything about gen 3 legendarys being intended to make legendary utility more accessible, or that they would be cheaper. that was 100% baseless speculation and wishful thinking when all we knew was that gen 3 was a thing in eod

 

Anet didn't lie, they weren't misleading. Any assumptions you had about the price and accessibility of gen 3 legendarys was exactly that, assumptions. 

You aren't entitled to "easy" legendarys. They have always been intended as LONG TERM  goals.

[Taclism.2406]

3 hours ago, Witch of Steam.5138 said:

Dragon memories

I found this on release (while trying to get the achievements), idk if it still works or has been nerfed since

Press H > Go to eod's story, restart chapter 14 > Go to green arrow. It'll give you multiple checkpoints to start from
One of the checkpoint is after the whole fight, dialog only. Once the dialog is over, 5 dragons memories.
Repeat for free infinite memories while you watch something on your second screen / phone or something
 

Edited August 3, 2022 by Taclism.2406

[chronometria.3708]

3 hours ago, Sobx.1758 said:

This part is my favorite: "There are people who bought the expansion/made a gen3, believing we would get legendaries that are basically 7in1."

Some people really thought they should be getting 7 leggies for the price of one and now they're angry that's not the reality. 🤦‍♂️

Except its not seven legendaries, its one legendary that can look like seven things. To be fair, not even hugely good things as "fire", "cold" and "Kralkatorik" for example, all have some great skins already, often many to choose from.

[IAmNotMatthew.1058]

2 hours ago, Cuks.8241 said:

Considered by who? Some posters on the forums?

I always thought that gen3 would be somewhere in the ballpark of previous generations just because they dont want to reduce the production of previous versions. And skins, especially with unique animations and effects will always be expensive in this game. Its what drives the economy.

When Gen 3 Legendaries were revealed you could see quite some people say that they will be cheap because they look the same/they look like Gemstore skins.
This Reddit post comes to mind whenever the price of Gen 3 is mentioned. 

[soulknight.9620]

1 hour ago, Kayberz.5346 said:

Anet didn't lie, they weren't misleading. Any assumptions you had about the price and accessibility of gen 3 legendarys was exactly that, assumptions. 

They did actually stated that: "You’ll only need to forge each weapon once, then you’ll go on a journey with it to attune it to the magic of the other Elder Dragons. So all those amazing greatswords Chelsea showed us are really just the same greatsword attuned to different magics, and you won’t have to worry about spending tons of resources making and remaking these weapons." 
Thats literary from their news post : https://www.guildwars2.com/en/news/a-closer-look-at-the-guild-wars-2-end-of-dragons-legendary-weapons/
Yet here we are "remaking" them every few months.
If thats not missleading i dont know what world are you guys living in. 

[Cuks.8241]

5 minutes ago, IAmNotMatthew.1058 said:

When Gen 3 Legendaries were revealed you could see quite some people say that they will be cheap because they look the same/they look like Gemstore skins.
This Reddit post comes to mind whenever the price of Gen 3 is mentioned. 

I think a random guy on the internet saying legendaries will be cheap should not be something Anet considers when introduces and balances new craftables into the game. I think impact on economy and appeal of new maps at least should take precedence. 

Maybe I just make a reddit post "I think gen3 legendaries will be expensive" and than all is fine.

[Labjax.2465]

Not to dismiss your concern because I kind of agree, but haven't legendaries always been ridiculous in this game? As much as 1-2 months of no-life play dedicated solely to one legendary with the most efficient farming methods, or months or years more casually (and that's based on my estimations this year, may have been worse earlier in the game). Multiply that by all the different gear slots you could want legendaries for and it's a massive time investment. But it kind of IS the end-game (fashion and gear convenience), so I kinda sorta get it even though I think the expectations are ridiculous.

Where other games do gear treadmill, this game does fashion treadmill. For those games, the goalposts for what is the best statted gear moves. For this game, the goalposts for what is the most shiny new fashion to get moves. In both cases, they want you to show up and chase what you don't have, even if it's kind of boring to do after a while. And in both cases, granted to your point, the degree of absurdity does vary sometimes with each iteration. But overall, the intent is more or less the same.

Edit: I think I've misunderstood your meaning, though some of what I said I think still applies about fashion and end-game. I take it you are talking about the variants? Personally, I'm probably never going to go for the variants because of having to go through the prismatic variation (unless I'm missing something?), which doesn't appeal to me at all. Like the Kralkatorrik purple looks kinda cool to me, but... to put it one way, if I had to make Kudzu to be able to make Bolt, I would never have made Bolt lol.

So in that way, I see it as a poor system, whereas the previous one allowed you to focus solely on the skins that most interested you. I would much rather you be able to start from any set, if it's going to be a variation-based setup, rather than being stuck with prismatic as the origin point.

Edited August 3, 2022 by Labjax.2465

[Kayberz.5346]

4 minutes ago, soulknight.9620 said:

They did actually stated that: "You’ll only need to forge each weapon once, then you’ll go on a journey with it to attune it to the magic of the other Elder Dragons. So all those amazing greatswords Chelsea showed us are really just the same greatsword attuned to different magics, and you won’t have to worry about spending tons of resources making and remaking these weapons." 
Thats literary from their news post : https://www.guildwars2.com/en/news/a-closer-look-at-the-guild-wars-2-end-of-dragons-legendary-weapons/
Yet here we are "remaking" them every few months.
If thats not missleading i dont know what world are you guys living in. 

Literally nowhere here does it say anything that implies that it will be "cheap"

 

They just confirm that you dont have to remake an entire new weapon for each variant, which is 100% true

 

The only thing misleading anyone is their own wishful assumptions 

[soulknight.9620]

4 minutes ago, Kayberz.5346 said:

Literally nowhere here does it say anything that implies that it will be "cheap"

 

They just confirm that you dont have to remake an entire new weapon for each variant, which is 100% true

 

The only thing misleading anyone is their own wishful assumptions 

So the "journey" mentioned in there is to throw 400g at a skin? And 400g worth of materials thats 1/2 of gen1 lege (and a 1/3 of gen3) isnt considered "tons of resources"? And ofc there is no difference between "making" and "remaking"? 

And if you want to be that kind of a guy - we ARE remaking (literary from dictionary: remake: to make anew or in a different form) the same weapon each time. Cause thats how it technically works, you spend resources at a vendor and get a skin for that. 

Edited August 3, 2022 by soulknight.9620

[Kayberz.5346]

If its  not "multi hundreds of gold" special in your opinion then just dont make them

Simple as that.

 

[Arewn.2368]

I was actually excited for the variants based on how they were initially presented.

I thought I'd make an initial investment around the start of the expansion to craft one of the legendaries, and then have a cool mini-adventure each patch where I attuned the weapon to an elder dragon to unlock the next variant.

 

I figured they'd need a few odd materials. Not this huge investment each time.

Completely turned off from bothering with them now. Maybe if one of the skins really attracts me I'll go for it.

Edited August 3, 2022 by Arewn.2368

[Kayberz.5346]

8 minutes ago, soulknight.9620 said:

So the "journey" mentioned in there is to throw 400g at a skin? And 400g worth of materials thats 1/2 of gen1 lege (and a 1/3 of gen3) isnt considered "tons of resources"? And ofc there is no difference between "making" and "remaking"? 

There is more than just the materials, you literally have to go out and do actual content while wielding the weapon, thats the journey. 

 

You aren't "remaking" the legendary

The cost of the variants is like 1/6 the price of making an entirely new Aurene legendary from scratch.

 

Everything anet said is 100% accurate and isn't misleading at all

Once again,  your wishful thinking and assumptions about what making a variant will entail is YOUR  problem.  Anet never promised nor implied "cheap" or "easy"

Edited August 3, 2022 by Kayberz.5346

[Labjax.2465]

I'm thinking about it and the variants concept seems awful from the get-go. With the previous style of legendary, you had a wide variety of designs to pick from and maybe you like one but don't like another. So you go for one legendary weapon out of a whole set and it's a tough goal, very MMO grind type of stuff, but a neat accomplishment in the end if you pull it off. The variant concept instead directs you toward going for a minimum of one legendary of a look you may not even want, just to be able to go for the look you may have been after in the first place? (at high additional cost)

And the more variants they add, the more the likelihood of someone wanting a variant that is not prismatic and not even wanting the prismatic skin itself?

Seems bad. Like, not "0.001% of players who play thousands of hours" bad. That seems like "impacts most people who will engage with EoD legendaries bad," which could be a much higher number than previous legendary sets since they handed out a precursor through Return To. Are they just banking on most people wanting to look like a glitter rainbow?

[Astralporing.1957]

4 minutes ago, Labjax.2465 said:

Are they just banking on most people wanting to look like a glitter rainbow?

No, they're most likely banking on players taking a look at the available options and reskinning their legendary with a gemshop skin.

[Kayberz.5346]

21 minutes ago, Labjax.2465 said:

I'm thinking about it and the variants concept seems awful from the get-go. With the previous style of legendary, you had a wide variety of designs to pick from and maybe you like one but don't like another. So you go for one legendary weapon out of a whole set and it's a tough goal, very MMO grind type of stuff, but a neat accomplishment in the end if you pull it off. The variant concept instead directs you toward going for a minimum of one legendary of a look you may not even want, just to be able to go for the look you may have been after in the first place? (at high additional cost)

And the more variants they add, the more the likelihood of someone wanting a variant that is not prismatic and not even wanting the prismatic skin itself?

Seems bad. Like, not "0.001% of players who play thousands of hours" bad. That seems like "impacts most people who will engage with EoD legendaries bad," which could be a much higher number than previous legendary sets since they handed out a precursor through Return To. Are they just banking on most people wanting to look like a glitter rainbow?

Previous legendarys: "i want a legendary axe, hmm lets see, wow only 2 options and they both dont appeal to me aestheticly and severely limit me cosmetically if i want to change my outfit or dye my gear a different color. If only there was an axe with a similar theme to sunrise, because i really like sunrise, i could make sunrise but i dont use greatswords much so it would be a waste and i still wouldn't have a legendary axe, plus my legendarys wouldn'tmatch well togetheri f i made both, wow this sucks"

3rd gen legendarys: "i want a legendary axe, ok cool ill make this one and can change it to one of 6 variants depending on what im feeling, then i can make a second legendary of the same variety and have all my legendary weapons match one outfit and be cohesive,  how convenient"

 

3rd gen legendarys are MUCH more flexible for someone trying to customize their appearance than previous generations

6>2

Edited August 3, 2022 by Kayberz.5346

[Freya.9075]

1 hour ago, chronometria.3708 said:

Except its not seven legendaries, its one legendary that can look like seven things. To be fair, not even hugely good things as "fire", "cold" and "Kralkatorik" for example, all have some great skins already, often many to choose from.

So. With that logic. Shouldn’t that apply to other legendaries that are the same weapon? It’s only a skin after all. They just look different. I could go for a cheap shooshadoo

[Astralporing.1957]

6 minutes ago, Kayberz.5346 said:

3rd gen legendarys are MUCH more flexible

They would have been, ...if they had been significantly cheaper. Offering you a skin variant for a third of the legendary cost... on top of the base legendary already costing a lot is hardly a "flexible" option.

[Kayberz.5346]

5 minutes ago, Astralporing.1957 said:

They would have been, ...if they had been significantly cheaper. Offering you a skin variant for a third of the legendary cost... on top of the base legendary already costing a lot is hardly a "flexible" option.

Way more flexible than straight up NOT having an alternative at all

 

If you dont like the look of a gen 1 or 2 legendary,  or it doesn't match with your outfit or your other legendarys, you have no options, you're stuck with that one skin

Edited August 3, 2022 by Kayberz.5346