Mech haters - Do you really want harder builds to be stronger?

[Nephalem.8921]

On 9/1/2022 at 11:12 AM, Kuma.1503 said:

At least?  -20% dps puts it at roughly 29k dps. For context, that's what Quickbrand benches atm.

 

 

No that would put it at 31k. Reaper DPS.

It got buffed recently and does 38k now. The super braindead mine version does 35k. Thats higher than some high effort benchmarks. Stop being delusional.

[Kuma.1503]

4 hours ago, Nephalem.8921 said:

No that would put it at 31k. Reaper DPS.

It got buffed recently and does 38k now. The super braindead mine version does 35k. Thats higher than some high effort benchmarks. Stop being delusional.

The benchmark was recently updated. It was listed as 36k at the time of my post. 

31k would be condi fire brand level, or pre buff core engi level, which is reasonable, although I'd look into Virtuoso, Specter and Scourge as well if Mech is reduced that low. 

Edited September 2, 2022 by Kuma.1503

[zeyeti.8347]

I agree with the Op , leave mech alone ! let them like they are , so in a few months you only gonna see mechanist , and thats cool cause i like orange color ! Dont know if my sarcasm was obvious ...

I said it maybe 300 times ... but  do you see any ele player in end content ? no , barely ... So if mechs stays like this lets  buff all AA from all weapons to its level , its gonna be stupid , ofc , but at least we gonna have some class diversity. Why with a class with less hp less armor , less survivability (let me remind you big boomer plus signet who heal you over 600 hp secondes , a breakstun/teleport/condi cleanse) plus a mecha dodo who deals 12k/damage , so basically playing ele is playing glass canon , but without the canon , and playing mech is playing sturdy canon , but with two canons ...

But yes 33% of the player choosing it is just pure coincidence , it's because we all are iron man huge fans that we play it ! No i play it cause iam mostly first dps pewpewing like a kitten and it makes me laugh seeing dragon hunter , holos , elementalist (when i see them ...) doing 66% of my deeps.

And i am not for a mech nerf , but more for taking all the classes to it's level .

Edited September 3, 2022 by zeyeti.8347

[Ashantara.8731]

On 8/5/2022 at 5:37 AM, Kuma.1503 said:

I know that's what many claim. Lately Mech has been a hot topic in just about every aspect of the game. Issues mainly stem from it's ease of use and general durability, but to all the people complaining that mech is too easy and too effective, I have to ask. 

Where were all of you during PoF?

For the longest time, for the 3-4 years since I've been playing this game, Engineer has been among the least desirable classes in PvE. It only excelled in the DPS role, and even at this job, it was outclassed. You never LFG'd for an engineer, we didn't have that special mechanic, unique buff, or boon that had groups looking for us. We were warm bodies to fill in space one you managed to fill all of the important roles in your group. 

And sitting comfortably at the bottom of the barrel in the list of "Warm bodies" to choose from, was Core condi engineer. 

A high intensity, high APM, high skill build. 

With mediocre dps. 

It was also so undesirable, that snowcrows eventually dropped it from their benchmark list. Despite the effort that went into playing it, it wasn't considered worth the effort. 

 

Yet everyone complaining about Mech today were more than happy to go about their day, ignoring this dead build, happily out dpsing the enigneer players attempting to play it despite the fact that their build was not only easier, but provided far more value. 

To this day, core condi engineer is still a dead build, and even condi holo has fallen out of favor, but I don't hear people arguing how that's a problem, how either of these high intensity builds should be rewarded for the effort they put in.

So for people who want Mech nerfed, ask yourself, are you so upset about it because an easy build is outperforming a harder build? Or is it because you're upset that YOUR build isn't able to be top dog on the DPS charts as often as you'd like? 

First off, just because there is criticism doesn't mean there is "hatred."

But I think you got it all wrong. The criticism isn't regarding the difficulty level but the DPS. If they nerfed the DPS to an acceptable level, no one would be complaing (except about the aesthetics and annoying sounds, maybe 😉).

[cyberzombie.7348]

Remember when everyone was complaining about turrets back in vanilla? Well this is pretty much the same ordeal with mech except:

A: Its mobile

B: Has better dps output, even in comparison to vanilla turrets

C :  Can be healed by default, instead of requiring a trait or a kit to do so

D :  Susceptible to boons

E: Has skills over 1k range

 

Now imagine hearing the same pushback against modernizing turrets through the years since it's nerf, and yet we get a mech that does all of that above...

[Kaizz.7306]

I remember the days of apothecary bomb kit healer. I was there when I had to play my guardian because there was nothing viable for engi anywhere. We slowly got builds that were accepted, but it was after everything else was accounted for, and it was still a piano to do mediocre dps. So personally, nerf the hell out of mechanist, I don't care, I'm just going right back to holo and scrapper, which are more fun anyway, but i really like having a low intensity build that doesn't revolve around flamethrower and Juggernaut. 

[Kuma.1503]

Okay I know I made this thread but tbh I'm surprised this is still going. 

[Alcatraznc.3869]

It wont end until Anet either completely makes Mechanist irrelevant like everyone wants it to be or every other spec being put at Mechanist level which will most likely not happen anytime soon

[anbujackson.9564]

4 hours ago, Alcatraznc.3869 said:

It wont end until Anet either completely makes Mechanist irrelevant like everyone wants it to be or every other spec being put at Mechanist level which will most likely not happen anytime soon

No one wants it to be irrelevant, it just should do way less damage. If lower dps makes mech irrelevant to people... well. 

What I kept reading was that new or older players need an easy build to play. So... What changes exactly when it does 32k dps now? They probably still play it. Let them. But now it wont do an overproportionally anount of damage anymore, so everyone is happy.

[Fizz.9384]

On 9/15/2022 at 1:05 AM, anbujackson.9564 said:

No one wants it to be irrelevant, it just should do way less damage.

 

Uhh.. doing "way less damage" is exactly what makes any DPS build irrelevant. IMO it should only lose somewhere around 3-4k dps tops. If you look at snowcrows there are plenty of builds that bench higher than pmech in its current state.

 

Personally I think they should also remove the autocast from the mech abilities because I seem to see lots of people complaining about how they go make coffee and come back to find they are top dps (I would like to see a dps log on some of these claims, btw, from a boss that isn't shiverpeaks or fraenir).

[Kaizz.7306]

On 9/15/2022 at 1:05 AM, anbujackson.9564 said:

No one wants it to be irrelevant, it just should do way less damage. If lower dps makes mech irrelevant to people... well. 

What I kept reading was that new or older players need an easy build to play. So... What changes exactly when it does 32k dps now? They probably still play it. Let them. But now it wont do an overproportionally anount of damage anymore, so everyone is happy.

Nobody wants it to be irrelevant, but the arguments I've been seeing say just make it not so domineering, and i'm completely fine with that. Personally, rework the whole spec, I don't like pet classes, and I especially don't like how mechanist was designed. The entire traitline is for the pet, I lose all my toolbelt skills, I gotta use signets for a lot of the builds.... it's so boring. Drop it down to a cool 25K dps with a rotation, and I'd be fine. Still wouldn't use it outside of healing, but still lol

[Kulvar.1239]

6 minutes ago, Kaizz.7306 said:

Nobody wants it to be irrelevant, but the arguments I've been seeing say just make it not so domineering, and i'm completely fine with that. Personally, rework the whole spec, I don't like pet classes, and I especially don't like how mechanist was designed. The entire traitline is for the pet, I lose all my toolbelt skills, I gotta use signets for a lot of the builds.... it's so boring. Drop it down to a cool 25K dps with a rotation, and I'd be fine. Still wouldn't use it outside of healing, but still lol

The combo pet + signets makes it so brainless.

[Kaizz.7306]

2 minutes ago, Kulvar.1239 said:

The combo pet + signets makes it so brainless.

Honestly, after playing Engi as my secondary for basically the past decade, I don't mind a bit more brainless play. It's that it's so good while being brainless. IF I could play brainless, but had the option to put more effort in to get better results, I'd be 100% fine. If Signets were somehow part of the rotation, if pressing my rifle skills in a certain order truly mattered vs press 1 and mech skills on CD getting me 30K. 

[Lynx.9058]

We need more easy builds, not less.  Easier builds that can still contribute meaningfully to groups means more people willing to play, or join those groups.  More player inclusion is better for everyone.

 

The only people being salty are the ones whose sense of self worth is tied entirely into their flawed viewpoint that a complex build makes them better than everyone else.   It's pure ego.

 

Besides, an easier build or rotation means you can actually pay attention to what's going on, instead of having to focus on playing your piano rotation perfectly.   I don't know about the rest of you, but I find games more enjoyable when I can keep my attention on the enemy or battlefield, rather than on my skill bar.

Edited September 19, 2022 by Lynx.9058

[Kulvar.1239]

13 minutes ago, Lynx.9058 said:

The only people being salty are the ones whose sense of self worth is tied entirely into their flawed viewpoint that a complex build makes them better than everyone else.   It's pure ego.

Nice ad hominem here.

[EyzKold.8247]

Sounds like the entire mech elite trait line needs to be reworked instead of nerfs.  Just remove all damage and buffs that the bot would receive and revert it back to the mechanist.  The bot could be used as a mobile bandaid, boon, alac, shield generator station.  The mechanist should have all the damage including modifiers from the trait line…not the bot.   Anet please reduce the size of the bot….or just use the jade bot skin.

The bot has a major problem…it wonders off or shoots in another direction during combat. 

[Lynx.9058]

2 hours ago, EyzKold.8247 said:

Sounds like the entire mech elite trait line needs to be reworked instead of nerfs.  Just remove all damage and buffs that the bot would receive and revert it back to the mechanist.  The bot could be used as a mobile bandaid, boon, alac, shield generator station.  The mechanist should have all the damage including modifiers from the trait line…not the bot.   Anet please reduce the size of the bot….or just use the jade bot skin.

The bot has a major problem…it wonders off or shoots in another direction during combat. 

That goes against the entire thematic purpose of the spec, though.  Mechanist seems to be based on the idea of a powerful companion that you support, rather than the other way around.  it's like asura and their golems, or gaige and death trap.

 

Making the mech into a weak buffbot would absolutely ruin the feel of the class.

[Kulvar.1239]

On 9/19/2022 at 11:41 PM, Lynx.9058 said:

That goes against the entire thematic purpose of the spec, though.  Mechanist seems to be based on the idea of a powerful companion that you support, rather than the other way around.  it's like asura and their golems, or gaige and death trap.

 

Making the mech into a weak buffbot would absolutely ruin the feel of the class.

And making the mech a weak base that you actively enhance to do more buff or damage ?